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Subject: RE: The Blackest Crow: meaning? From: black walnut Date: 06 Mar 00 - 08:12 PM when i listened, it sounded a lot like "Tis bird I'd serve, for for your sake".... but i knew that couldn't be right, so i left out one of the for's up above. maybe it's important after all, if we're trying to reconstruct.... i'm trying to contact arnie naiman for an answer on this. he's just recorded the song, i believe. ~'nut
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Subject: RE: The Blackest Crow: meaning? From: sophocleese Date: 06 Mar 00 - 08:03 PM I still don't like the phrase "tis bird I'd serve'. It doesn't fit with the rest of the words, "And my poor aching heart, tis bird I'd serve, for your sake, Believe me, dear, its true. Without having heard the song its hard to guess what might actually be being sung. What about burden instead of bird? |
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Subject: RE: The Blackest Crow: meaning? From: Sorcha Date: 06 Mar 00 - 08:02 PM Serve up the MORRIGAN???YE GADS, NOOOOO! Pleeeze do not insult her! |
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Subject: RE: The Blackest Crow: meaning? From: black walnut Date: 06 Mar 00 - 07:57 PM micca, that sounds right to me! the british slang was not obvious; i, at least, am new to the phrase. thanks all, for your suggestions. and if there's anyone with more ideas, or a variation of the lyrics, please contine to post them. thanks! ~black walnut |
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Subject: RE: The Blackest Crow: meaning? From: Dave (the ancient mariner) Date: 06 Mar 00 - 06:38 PM The Blackest Crow was a messenger or harbringer of death. To serve the Crow could refer to a lover swearing to be true until death. Such could be said when one is parted from the other by war, or going to sea; and sometimes because the love is not mutual. Yours,Aye.Dave |
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Subject: RE: The Blackest Crow: meaning? From: Micca Date: 06 Mar 00 - 06:35 PM Forgive the insertion of an possibly obvious but "to serve bird" is British slang for a term in prison, from Cockney Rhyming slang " bird lime=time" that is prison time served. This might me more sense of line 5. Mbo, the Morrigan however is a Raven not a crow!!!! |
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Subject: RE: The Blackest Crow: meaning? From: Mbo Date: 06 Mar 00 - 05:47 PM OOOH! I just had a revelation! Image what your sweetie would think if you served up The Morrigan on a dinner platter! Now THAT would be devotion. Hmmm...I did read an Celtic folktale recently about 3 brothers setting out to find the rare finch that sung so sweetly to their father, the King. This is getting interesting! --mbo |
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Subject: RE: The Blackest Crow: meaning? From: black walnut Date: 06 Mar 00 - 05:45 PM good suggestions... i just listened again to the recording. it's hard for me to be sure of the words. perhaps it's "Tis bird I'd serve up", or something else altogether! a friend sent me the lyrics from an unknown source... i'll try to track it down. it doesn't change the meaning at all, but upon listening to the CD, the opening changes slightly, from my hearing, to: "As time draws near, my dearest dear, when you and I must part, How little you know of the grief and woe, in my poor aching heart, " so, there may be errors in the rest of the lyrics printed above. i'll continue tracking.... ~'nut
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Subject: RE: The Blackest Crow: meaning? From: Sorcha Date: 06 Mar 00 - 05:36 PM There is a lot of Irish/Celtic folk lore about 3 impossible things, birds in general and crows in particular. "Heroes" are asked to do 3 impossible things to win the prize, (and the number 3 has magical meanings in itself). Many birds were sacred to specific gods/goddesses, and many folk heroes had personal prohibitions regarding eating, killing, etc. of birds. The crow was regarded as a Druidic/bards bird, as it had the gift of prophecy. Maybe some of this has a bearing on the song? |
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Subject: RE: The Blackest Crow: meaning? From: Mbo Date: 06 Mar 00 - 05:27 PM Could this possibly be a reference to wren hunting? Is hunting and presenting a droilin out of season, viz. December 26th, considered a symbol of unwavering devotion? --Mbo |
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Subject: RE: The Blackest Crow: meaning? From: Amos Date: 06 Mar 00 - 05:18 PM Only thing makes sense is either (a) I'd serve you a delicacy if I could, to please you, because I love you so or (b) For your sake I would go and work for a sparrow somewhere...naaaah, that ain't it. It's gotta be (a). :>) A |
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Subject: RE: The Blackest Crow: meaning? From: black walnut Date: 06 Mar 00 - 05:17 PM oh, i get the confusion! forget line 'FIVE'... it didn't come out that way in my posting. my query is about the PHRASE: 'Tis bird I'd serve for your sake'. very sorry about that. ~black walnut |
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Subject: RE: The Blackest Crow: meaning? From: Mbo Date: 06 Mar 00 - 05:16 PM This is kinda fun. It reminds me of a game my sister invented, called "Picking Apart Plebian Phrases" where you'd pick an ordinary phrase, then try to find out where it came from. My classic "wheelbarrel etymology" was a favorite. I'll have to ask the Baron to help me on this one! --mbo |
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Subject: RE: The Blackest Crow: meaning? From: Jeri Date: 06 Mar 00 - 05:11 PM Oh well, I was being dense. (Counted 5 paragraphs and couldn't find the quoted phrase in it...duh.) Doesn't "to eat crow" mean to take back one's words? Perhaps the current meaning derived from something else... |
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Subject: RE: The Blackest Crow: meaning? From: black walnut Date: 06 Mar 00 - 05:10 PM you're right, sophocleese. it's that strange line 5 that i'm wondering about. the song comes from "Songs from the Mountain" by Dirk Powell, Tim O'Brien and John Herrmann. the CD is the companion recording of a novel by Charles Frazier, 'Cold Mountain'.
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Subject: RE: The Blackest Crow: meaning? From: Mbo Date: 06 Mar 00 - 05:06 PM Oh yeah...I've never heard of this song before, so I don't know where it's from...but weren't there strict laws against poaching in England & Scotland back in the old days? As illustrated in "The Rovin' Hielan' Man"? --Mbo |
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Subject: RE: The Blackest Crow: meaning? From: Mbo Date: 06 Mar 00 - 05:04 PM It's a song about Thanksgiving turkey! Maybe eating fowl was some sort of a delicacy, and serving it was a special thing to do for someone? --Mbo |
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Subject: RE: The Blackest Crow: meaning? From: MMario Date: 06 Mar 00 - 04:54 PM a poetic interpretation of "I'll eat crow?" That seems to fit the sense of the song..... |
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Subject: RE: The Blackest Crow: meaning? From: GUEST,Bill in Alabama (in the office) Date: 06 Mar 00 - 04:53 PM I agree, Jeri-- We could rack our brains and stretch this thread to infinity (which may well happen anyway) only to find that we had all been interpreting something that never existed in the original. Sounds like a Mondegreen to me. Bill |
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Subject: RE: The Blackest Crow: meaning? From: sophocleese Date: 06 Mar 00 - 04:53 PM Where did you get the song black walnut? |
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Subject: RE: The Blackest Crow: meaning? From: sophocleese Date: 06 Mar 00 - 04:49 PM Black or white crows are easy enough to understand. I think what black walnut is asking is what the line 'Tis bird I'd serve" means. I also am confused by that line and my first thought is that it is the result of a mishearing. |
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Subject: RE: The Blackest Crow: meaning? From: Jeri Date: 06 Mar 00 - 04:41 PM Could have said "the whitest dove that ever flew would surely turn to black," but it doesn't rhyme with "night." I agree with what Allan C. said. Crows are black, day is not night, and seas don't rage and burn. I've always been partial to the line "and the rocks will melt by the heat of the sun." |
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Subject: RE: The Blackest Crow: meaning? From: Allan C. Date: 06 Mar 00 - 04:28 PM I don't see anything other than the obvious intended in this usage. Its turning white is listed among the many "impossible" things which would come to pass before the speaker's love would ever prove untrue. It is an old theme used in many songs. In a few other songs you might find intended meanings that vary considerably from this one. |
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Subject: Lyr Add: THE BLACKEST CROW From: black walnut Date: 06 Mar 00 - 04:12 PM Here's the song.... Can anyone explain line 5? "'Tis bird I'd serve, for your sake...." ................................................ As time draws near, my dearest dear, As you and I must part, How little you know of the grief and woe, And my poor aching heart. 'Tis bird I'd serve, for your sake, Believe me, dear, it's true, I wish that you were staying here, Or I was going with you. I wish my breast were made of glass, Wherein you might behold, Upon my heart your name lies wrote, In letters made of gold. In letters made of gold, my love, Believe me when I say, You are the one I will adore, Until my dying day. INSTR The blackest crow that ever flew, Would surely turn to white, If ever I prove false to you, Bright day will turn to night, Bright day will turn to night, my love, The evidence will mourn, If ever I prove false to you, The seas will rage and burn. INSTR |
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