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Any instrument makers out there?
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Any instrument makers out there? |
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Subject: Any instrument makers out there? From: Homeless Date: 06 Mar 00 - 07:45 PM I do simple woodworking (among other things) as a hobby and have made a few simple instruments - bamboo panpipes, ceramic flutes, tongue drums, and a few mountain dulcimers - but would really like to something more complex. I have in mind a banjo, mandolin, or (eventually) hurdy gurdy. My biggest concern on the two former is having neck strength. (my biggest concern on the latter is pretty much everything) Is there anyone who builds instruments, that is willing to share any thoughts (cautions, advice, encouragement) on my aspirations? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any instrument makers out there? From: Lin in Kansas Date: 06 Mar 00 - 09:15 PM Homeless, My good friends Cali and Alden Hackmann build hurdy gurdies. Here (I hope) is a link to their Website, where you can find all kinds of goodies: Since this is my first try at linking, here's the address too: http://www.hurdygurdy.com/hg/omi/olymus.html They do great work--good luck with your venture! Lin |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any instrument makers out there? From: Lin in Kansas Date: 06 Mar 00 - 09:20 PM Rats! Link didn't work--I'll try once more. If this one doesn't work, I'll give up. But I do urge you to check out their site--lots of info. "http://www.hurdygurdy.com/hg/omi/olymus.html"click here> Lin |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any instrument makers out there? From: Lin in Kansas Date: 06 Mar 00 - 09:21 PM Okay, I give up--back to the HTML practice thread! Lin |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any instrument makers out there? From: BlueJay Date: 06 Mar 00 - 09:25 PM Homeless- I built a Balalaika once from a kit. It was playable, but really pretty bad. The kit things usually are. But it was still a lot of fun. You've already started, so why not continue? There's a company called Stuart- McDonald, (perhaps MacDonald), with a catalog of luthier tools, supplies,ect, including preshaped necks, sides backs, etc. Everything you could need. I don't know if they have a website, but a search could find out. Good luck. Perhaps you'll be a fine luthier someday. Measure twice, cut once! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any instrument makers out there? From: Homeless Date: 06 Mar 00 - 09:40 PM Lin - Thanx for the URL. I think a hurdy gurdy is going to have to wait until I amass a few more tools. I didn't realize I would need some of the tools they claim to have needed. Then again, maybe I can just buy those parts. Bluejay - it seems I've seen said catalog before; it focused on guitar parts mostly, yes? I'd refer to that where I couldn't make parts (tuning pegs?) but for the most part I like to do things from scratch. The first dulcimer I build started as two planks and some rough directions. I like the challenge of building things, and, no disrespect intended, to me a kit seems like getting a puzzle that's already half done. I take more joy in the journey than in the destination (at least in making things). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any instrument makers out there? From: katlaughing Date: 06 Mar 00 - 09:42 PM Our own Catspaw is a luthier. I am sure he'll wander in here at some point. Here's a link to the site JL in Oz mentioned; and, here is a link someone put on the Mudcat last year that I bookmarked: click here, for a site of a guy who lives way up north in Michigan. He has FREE simple and inexpensive plans and even some sound samples for some great instruments including a hurdy gurdy. Sounds as though you are ready to move beyond the weekend projects he has available for download, but it might give you some ideas at least. JL, I didn't check what was wrong, but to do a link,
type a less than sign: < I hope that is clearer than mud!:-) All the best, katlaughing |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any instrument makers out there? From: katlaughing Date: 06 Mar 00 - 09:47 PM Oh, and I thought I was so smart! Last line should say:
then, right up against that, type: less than sign: < Confused? You will be if I keep going, eh?**BG** |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any instrument makers out there? From: Sorcha Date: 06 Mar 00 - 09:54 PM I am going to try one more time to post--has refused me the last 3 times--too many of us trying to post at once. Anyway without all the BS I put in before, I know Chicago has several GOOD instrument/repair shops. Maybe you could go to one of them and ask to Apprentice, this would save you having to have a shop, and thousands of dollars of tools. You could maybe do it part time or in the eve., and still have a day job. "REAL MUSICIANS HAVE DAY JOBS" (One of my fave bumper stickers) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any instrument makers out there? From: Homeless Date: 06 Mar 00 - 10:37 PM Sorcha - too bad you had problems posting - I would have liked to have seen the rest of your BS. Anyway... I've considered going into instrument building and repair for a living, but I've not much interest in working on guitars and no interest in big city life, and from what I've been able to find out from talking w/ luthiers, that's what I'd have to deal with for the most part. If ever I get to a point in my life where I'm financially secure and don't need a day job, I might try building instruments 9-5 and consigning them or something. Until then, I'll enjoy it as a hobby. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any instrument makers out there? From: Mbo Date: 06 Mar 00 - 10:56 PM I made THE AMAZING MUDCAT GUITAR. Does that make me officially an instrument maker? --Mbo |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any instrument makers out there? From: Homeless Date: 06 Mar 00 - 10:59 PM What exactly is THE AMAZING MUDCAT GUITAR? I dub you offically an instrument maker. Heck, if you wrap tissue paper around a comb, you're an instrument maker. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any instrument makers out there? From: Gypsy Date: 06 Mar 00 - 11:25 PM Funny, that is the direction that we are headed, specifically repair, since we have top luthiers in the area that already build instruments. Anyway, a good way to get your feet wet is by kit. Musicmakers has top quality kits, (i know, i've used them) and they are pretty bulletproof. If you are masochistic enough to start from scratch, the first time, try Luthiers Mercantile, Healdsburg, CA. Or, subscribe to the Guild of American Luthiers, hefty price but well worth it. It does mainly focus on guitar building, though. Good Luck! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any instrument makers out there? From: Hardiman the Fiddler Date: 06 Mar 00 - 11:41 PM I have a friend who tried to make a banjo once; he didn't share any hot tips about it, but he said that the most difficult thing was fabricating the pot and tone ring. I don't think he actually ever finished the project, but if I run into him any time soon, I'll ask about it. Seems to me that he was using rock maple for the neck, which is really hard wood to work with....good luck. Hardiman |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any instrument makers out there? From: ddw Date: 06 Mar 00 - 11:56 PM I was gonna tell you about the time my wife caught me making an instrument and almost divorced me for it.... But I decided not to.... david |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any instrument makers out there? From: BlueJay Date: 07 Mar 00 - 12:05 AM I didn't mean to recommend kits, only that I've done them with less than satisfactory results. Sorry, but I'm NOT a luthier. The catalog I recommended has all sorts of stuff,from mandolin necks to banjo pots, as well as rudiments such as fret wire, adhesives, etc. What part of the world are you from? If you are ever near Colorado, USA, then my son in law, who IS a luthier, could probably give you better advice. Please, keep up your interest in instrument building. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any instrument makers out there? From: Mbo Date: 07 Mar 00 - 12:22 AM Check out my picture page at bbc's Mudcat Resources..then you can SEE thing AMAZING MUDCAT GUITAR! --Mbo |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any instrument makers out there? From: Homeless Date: 07 Mar 00 - 12:24 AM That's a guitar? Do you have any face on pictures of it, or is it only the head that is so interesting? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any instrument makers out there? From: Mbo Date: 07 Mar 00 - 12:36 AM Oh, I've got lots of pictures, from varying angles. Anyone want them, personal message me--I'll send them over! --Mbo |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any instrument makers out there? From: Lin in Kansas Date: 07 Mar 00 - 02:44 AM katlaughing:
Thanks! and no, you didn't confuse me--I'm stubborn enough that I FINALLY figured out what I was doing wrong! Now if I can get the "blue clicky thing" to really turn blue...
And Homeless, I'm glad you managed to check out Alden and Cali's site despite my incompetence with the URL. They're really friendly folk, and very enthusiasic about hurdy-gurdies--I would expect, if you have questions about what tools you'd absolutely have to have (or anything else about building the instrument, for that matter), you could ask them via their email link and they'd likely be glad to answer.
And good luck with your project, whatever you decide to create!
Lin
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Subject: RE: BS: Any instrument makers out there? From: Mooh Date: 07 Mar 00 - 08:58 AM Please see frets.com for all the answers... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any instrument makers out there? From: Jon W. Date: 07 Mar 00 - 10:45 AM I've built three instruments-resonator mandolin, mtn. dulcimer (cheap but it works) and a wooden-top banjo. You can see me with these on BBC's picture page. I also recently finished converting a tenor to a 5-string banjo by building a new neck. Don't worry too much about neck strength--if you use decent wood and make the neck the same dimensions as anyone else's it will be just as strong as anyone else's. On my first instrument-the mandolin- I thought the neck would be the toughest part, but it was actually one of the easiest. Another URL you HAVE to try is this one: The Musical Instrument Makers Forum Good luck and go for it. Jon W. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any instrument makers out there? From: Homeless Date: 07 Mar 00 - 10:58 AM It's somewhat amazing what kind of answers people's responses will give that have nothing to do with the original question. Having asked about instrument building and getting many answers saying "check out this website" I was rather disappointed, until I suddenly got a flash of insight saying that I wasn't really looking for information on instrument building as much as the "human" interaction. This realization has given me quite a bit to ponder. A sincere thank you to everyone who has given me a URL. As soon as the weather here turns for the better I will be visiting each of the sites and deciding what to build next. If there's interest, I'll let y'all know how it turns out, and, maybe, I'll get a chance to play it some Sunday evening. In the meantime, I think I need to do a bit of self analysis. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any instrument makers out there? From: catspaw49 Date: 07 Mar 00 - 12:42 PM Okay Homeless..... As kat mentioned, I do build instruments...mainly Hammered Dulcimers of my own design as well as Apps of my own design and have also built several autoharps, psalteries, harps, and a few guitars and banjos from both kits and scratch. I understand your negativity towards kits, but some are little more than boxed wood and are very challenging and educational. The ones that require "only a few hours and glue" are NEITHER. Hammereds are not necessarily technically difficult, but I started because I was looking for a specific type of sound. I built one based on a basic plan I purchased and then began to modify it. In the process, I began to read more and more about acoustics. I soon saw that this basic box was doing things that I had no idea about. As I learned I created new designs for the bracing and top and rails and blah,blah.........I'd find something good and repeat it and find something bad and try to figure why it didn't work. Then of course I got to the subject of wood. And glue. And finishes. I would put together "acoustic trials" of cheap stuff and then try to apply the design to different good tonewoods. Same was true of Apps. I used a lot of the trial horses for firewood and even sent some beautiful tonewoods up the chimney when I couldn't salvage anything from my mistakes. Eventually, I found what I was after and built and sold around 150 Hammereds and I don't know how many Apps. Then a few personal problems stopped me for a few years and I'm just now getting going again. And I decided that I build only one model of Hammered and I wanted a different look for it....something that would stand out by design along with sound and wood. So I used the same interior stuff and changed the outer appearance a good bit and I was happy until I finished a trial horse.....it ain't right and I'm glad I didn't use great wood. But I think I know where the problems are from past experience and I am currently working it over and building another with a few mods. Hopefully this comes together and I can get on with it. I built my first guitar when I was experimenting with different designs of Apps. I bought a kit and the learning curve became much steeper as I realized that "things aren't always as they seem." But it was a great experience and a so-so guitar which I gave to the son of a friend. I've built two others since and both have been better and from scratch. Hell, I actually sold one! Acoustically I learned a lot about bracing and voicing from the experience and have applied it to other things since. I was doing a pretty reasonable amount of repair business and setups on guitars, though I wouldn't consider myself in the top group of setup artists by any means. But I ain't bad. To build any wooden instrument from scratch, you need some specific knowledge and ability in certain areas. Do you understand the difference in ways wood is milled and what works best for different things? (slab vs. quarter sawn) How's your knowledge of tonewoods? How about things like glues and their uses? Can you bend wood? Hvae you ever worked with frets, ie. cutting slots, pressing, dressing? These and a lot of other things can be learned properly, but they all take practice. I got a few suggestions for you.....you can tell me to piss off if you like. Pick an instrument that you like or have a particular passion for (even one as stupid as a Hammered Dulcimer) and go for it. You mention guitar and banjo...do it. Here's some thoughts........ Read all you can, on the net and otherwise. Buy Irving Sloane's book on guitar repair which is a bible for repair, and also get a copy of "Guitarmaking-Tradition and Technology" by Cumpiano and Natelson. Worth every penny and perhaps the best thing ever written on the subject. Go buy an inexpensive guitar and overhaul it. I'm thinking Sigma or the like. Refret it, replace the bridge, repair any cracks, refinish it (finishing is very important to sound)...just go completely over it. Then, buy a kit from Martin. They are pre-bent, slotted, shaped, but will require some skill on your part to do well and you'll learn a lot. Then buy a kit from "Luthier's Mercantile" in Healdsberg, CA...somebody mentioned them above. These require a lot more and are more a boxed wood kit. BTW, they are an excellent source for reference and all instrument making materials as well. Their catalog costs quite a bit, but the reference materials alone are worth it. At this point, go on and try some on your own. There are a number of specific tools and variations on common ones that are needed also and they are going to cost you more than a few bucks. Binding, purfling, fretting, bending, shaping, clamping......all require some specific tools (and Luthier's Mercantile and Stew-Mac have them too). I luckily live only about 45 miles from Stew-Mac and they are also an excellent source for all parts and tools as well, although not so great on wood. There are a ton of companies who sell tonewoods and you'll have to investigate quite a few as the quality changes over time. Luthier's Mercantile however, is always reliable. Christ, I'm tired of typing........got anymore specific questions I can help with? Have fun and don't get discouraged at first attempts, its just like anything else. Is this the kind of personal opinion you had in mind? Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any instrument makers out there? From: Homeless Date: 07 Mar 00 - 01:59 PM Hoo boy, that's more than I'd hoped for. Like I said before - the instruments I've made so far have been pretty simple - Apps with no internal bracing (3/16" wood all around), no purfling, no binding, etc. I've read Sloane's book along with at least a dozen others - anything I could get thru the library. Included among them was "The Musician's Guide to Acoustics," which is about 600 pages, and contained formulas for sound wavelength, pitch, temperature, etc. that, if I hadn't taken a physics class in school, would have been way over my head. Yes, I'm pretty familiar with quartersawn vs slab, and which woods are better than others (I once used red oak for an Aeolean harp w/ a fancy soundhole. After a couple months the wood split and parts of sound hole design fell in - so I looked into wood properties). Bending by which method, iron, steam, or laminating? I can also recite bending radiuses for various woods. But like I said, I do this mostly as a hobby - an extension of woodworking rather than trying to make a perfect instrument. Since I just do this for fun I like to stay with cherry and walnut - they look nice and the sound is OK. And the fun (for me) is in the creating. Right now the dulcimers I made are in a box stored in my van. They've lived there for a couple years and will probably be there for the forseeable future. I want to do a Celtic Harp also (in fact I think the design for that came out of one of Sloane's books) but need to get better at a mortise and tenon before I attempt it. Once that is finished, I'll probably play with it for a few weeks, and it'll be relegated to storage also. If there were an instrument that I was passionate about, I would probably be building them already. I seem to be one of those people who doesn't get passionate about much of anything and just drift from thing to thing as my interested in them waxes and wanes. That's the reason that I "almost" play a dozen different instruments. Given where Stew-Mac is, it looks as tho you're not too far out of my way when I go down to South Carolina to see my girls. Any chance I could stop by for an afternoon someday to see the works of a pro? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any instrument makers out there? From: catspaw49 Date: 07 Mar 00 - 02:19 PM Sounds like I should have started somewhere else instead of so basically!!! I love your comment about the physics class.......hit me the same way too. Anytime you're heading out, let me know and you can visit the "Piled High and Deep Dulcimer Shop and Firewood Factory." If you do the harp, keep me posted on how it comes along. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Any instrument makers out there? From: Homeless Date: 07 Mar 00 - 02:38 PM No, actually where you started was fine. A couple of your comment reminded me of things I've learned, but forgotten. And I'd rather, when being taught, that the teacher start a little below my level and come up than start above me and keep going. Re: the physics class - that book was the first time I'd ever seen mu and lambda in something I was reading for fun. I would have really been lost if not for that physics class. And if anyone had ever told me before then that I'd one day be able to tell you the pitch of a standing wave based on the wavelength and air temperature, or if someone was playing a flute in a room measuring 10x12 and the listener was 3 feet the other side of a 28" wide doorway I could predict how flat the flute would sound, I'd have thought they were nuts. Unfortunately, reading is most of what I've done. So I've got a vast store of theoretical knowledge, but haven't done much with it hand's on. |
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