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BS: Instant folksong
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Subject: Instant folksong From: Bert Date: 14 Mar 00 - 11:22 AM In the 'What do you write...' thread Amos laughed at me for using the term 'instant folksong'. So here's a new game. Name ONE modern song that 'in your opinion' will become a folksong. My nomination is 'When your pickle glows at night', here and that's not to get back at Amos, it's because I think that the song is just too good to die and I can imagine people singing it at parties hundreds of years from now. Have fun with this now. Bert. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Instant folksong From: MMario Date: 14 Mar 00 - 11:39 AM Honestly, "Plastic Flower Seeds" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Instant folksong From: Alice Date: 14 Mar 00 - 11:52 AM Yellow Submarine |
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Subject: RE: BS: Instant folksong From: Hyperabid Date: 14 Mar 00 - 12:00 PM I think that a now regrettably split English 5 piece called Verve probably had the ability towards the end of their career to produce instantly recognised and sung by their fan-base. Modern folk I guess. Info to be found about them http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Venue/3869/index.html and http://the-raft.com/theverve/ Hyp |
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Subject: RE: BS: Instant folksong From: Bill D Date: 14 Mar 00 - 12:04 PM several of Woodie Gutheries are essentially there..who would deny "This Land is Your Land"?.... a couple of Eric Bogles.."William McBride" .."The Band Played Waltzing Matilda", maybe...several of Bruce Phillips' "The Goodnight-Living Trail"...Several of Tom Paxtons(almost there NOW!)...a couple of Craig Johnsons.I suppose a couple of Dylans will, though I hate it when folks try to elevate everything he did...but "It's alright Ma",,and "Masters of War" just might... gee...I think there's a longer list if I could just think.. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Instant folksong From: Night Owl Date: 14 Mar 00 - 12:11 PM "Sweet Wyoming Home" and "River" Bill Staines |
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Subject: RE: BS: Instant folksong From: Bill D Date: 14 Mar 00 - 12:12 PM thinking about "Yellow Submarine"...you know there a difference between "famous and remembered forever" and "folk"....."The Toreador Song" is not folk, nor are some of the wonderful things Irving Berlin did...they are famous and often performed, but not usually what I think of as being done at an open mike in 2147. Sure wish I could be here to see who guessed right. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Instant folksong From: GMT Date: 14 Mar 00 - 12:26 PM Seconded Bill D and your list as well. I would just add a couple. Sandy Denny has a few candidates IMHO. Ralph Mctell - Streets of London, Claire to Hear Mcgowan - Fairytale of New York Hmmm must think longer on this. Cheers Gary |
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Subject: RE: BS: Instant folksong From: Sorcha Date: 14 Mar 00 - 12:30 PM Alice's Restaurant? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Instant folksong From: Ebbie Date: 14 Mar 00 - 12:31 PM I second 'River', Bill Staines; Kilkelly, Ireland; There were Roses |
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Subject: RE: BS: Instant folksong From: GMT Date: 14 Mar 00 - 12:34 PM Opps, Clare to Here !! Richard Thompson - God Loves a Drunk (just because) Jim Croce - Time in a Bottle Joni Mitchell - Woodstock This is fun Cheers Gary |
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Subject: RE: BS: Instant folksong From: Ely Date: 14 Mar 00 - 12:49 PM Bob Dylan: Blowing in the Wind, Don't Think Twice Tom Paxton: Last Thing On My Mind, Bottle of Wine Townes Van Zandt: Tecumseh Valley Jay Ungar: #$&@!! Ashokan Farewell Elizabeth Cotten: Freight Train |
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Subject: RE: BS: Instant folksong From: Amos Date: 14 Mar 00 - 12:57 PM Thirsty Boots and Four Strong Winds will probably survive...although I don't know whether we should be glad about it 'cuz they're so schmaltzy...And maybe Lost in Juarez, Just Like a Woman, Like a Rolling Stone, Ye Masters of War, or Positively Fourth Street. I'd like to think the redolent irony of Little Boxes would make it, but I doubt it. Bert, I am genuinely flattered by yer kind remarks about that piece of whimsy. Thank you, sir! And I wasn't laughing at you, just being argumentative.:>) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Instant folksong From: Alice Date: 14 Mar 00 - 12:59 PM Sure, much of what we call folk music today was composed and changed over time by people who were not "professional" bards, but some of what we call folk music did have its beginning with composers who sang to make their living. I wasn't thinking in terms of what we think 'sounds' old to us now, but rather that in some far distant future, I can hear children singing "we all live in a yellow space station, a yellow space station, a yellow space station....." alice |
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Subject: RE: BS: Instant folksong From: Amos Date: 14 Mar 00 - 01:12 PM Well, in that case, I am sure winners will include "The Path to Deneb", by the 25th century poet Lunar Thong, and "Do you know the way to the Mare Iridium", and "Space Dust In Your Hanky", and "My true love is an ordinary thing..."..the Venusian Love Song...and "It's Only a Mudball, But I Still Call It Home", by the Galactic Rovers. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Instant folksong From: kendall Date: 14 Mar 00 - 01:15 PM Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald |
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Subject: RE: BS: Instant folksong From: Amos Date: 14 Mar 00 - 01:24 PM I'll second that one. Maybe several of the Union numbers drummed up by all those warm fuzzy pinko commie bastards (:>) in the thirties, like The Union Maid, Get Thee Behind Me Satan, Which Side Are You On, and at least one variant of the Talking Blues Ad Infinitum. By Alice's delightfully challenging definition it would probably be the "Asteroid Walking Talking Blues" by Cosmos Bastion and the Parsecs...:>). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Instant folksong From: catspaw49 Date: 14 Mar 00 - 01:30 PM I fear the last one Amos............... Bert.....I hate to admit this. Last night after posting again on the various "Folk" threads, I was thinking of some way to change the discussion a bit and I thought THIS might be a good way. So I was shocked to see your thread this morning. I am worried now about my mental state if we are thinking the same things. My problem in starting this gets back to the "criteria" used and I couldn't think of a way to get past it and I have watched it beginning to come into play here. We can all agree on the time/generational thing on which this thread is based as well as many other things which make a song a "folk" song. I think the one issue that cannot be established with assuredness is the "Why was it written" thing. Dylan for example.......Some are going to say that NONE will ever quailify because he's a jerk and motivated only by money and fame. Some will say the opposite. There is no way of proving either side since it is complete speculation. Dylan himself has made comments BOTH ways. But its a damn good thread and I look forward to some of the answers.
"Many a Mile".....Pat Sky Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Instant folksong From: Alice Date: 14 Mar 00 - 01:32 PM So, they never learn, even Cosmos Bastion is going to file a copyright on a song in 2250 by only changing a couple of words in the old lyrics......
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Subject: RE: BS: Instant folksong From: GUEST,me Date: 14 Mar 00 - 01:51 PM "The Lumberjack Song" "The Time Warp" "Can't Help Falling in Love With You" "With a Little Help From My Friends" The instrumental folk song of the future will the "Star Wars Theme" So shall it be. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Instant folksong From: Amos Date: 14 Mar 00 - 01:51 PM So, 'Spaw -- a little psychic leakthrough? Finding yourself in an octogenarian mind-meld? Don't fear! Get DeeFENZ! Made from all American Reynolds Wrap and designed by Jacques Schiet, internationally acclaimed whoozie, DeeFENZ will enable you to once again Wall Yourself Off like a REAL man! No more telepathic impressions! No more remote viewing! Get in yore head and stay there sucker! The DeeFENZ anti-telepathy helmet comes in fruity colors (blueberry's a favorite) and is guaranteed to prevent unwantedmental leakage in BOTH DIRECTIONS thanks to major new technological breakthroughs from Reynolds!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Instant folksong From: catspaw49 Date: 14 Mar 00 - 02:13 PM My worst fears are now confirmed. I was fearing that Amos and now............. While I may trust Reynolds, I am sure I don't know Jacques Schiet so I'll have to rely on your judgement, and you've had several against you. I think a raspberry would be nice as blueberry highlights my tired look and is not as cheerful. I had read of similar devices, specifically a balaclava like thing designed by someone named Dick, but I don't know him and when I checked with Bert, he don't know Dick either, so I'll go with yours. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Instant folksong From: Jeri Date: 14 Mar 00 - 02:14 PM Dark Island, Lyrics: David Silver Music: Ian MacLachlan - because lots of people think it's an old song already, and the authors don't seem to be making a fuss. Shoals of Herring, Ewan McColl - same reason - lots of folks think it's trad, and there are already variants. ("Shores of Erin?") Acutally, I think many of the songs McColl wrote have a good chance. Grey Funnel Line - Cyril Tawney. Shows some changes already what with "Walker Shore" being substituted for "that walk ashore." Chaps my whatsit, but it's the folk process. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Instant folksong From: katlaughing Date: 14 Mar 00 - 03:41 PM Dare I say it? American Pie Happy Together by the Turtles Edge of Destruction Lullaby of Spring by Donovan Eleanor Rigby Handful of Songs Jeri, according to Sandy & Caroline's Golden Circle ReunionCD, "Dark Island" is a trad. Hebridean tune, that Caroline learned from Joe Hickerson. She also says, in the liner notes, that she's been told the tune has an even older Gaelic text. Is this the same song you are talking about?
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Subject: RE: BS: Instant folksong From: Mooh Date: 14 Mar 00 - 07:20 PM Don't laugh, Sweet Home Alabama. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Instant folksong From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 14 Mar 00 - 08:27 PM Mary Ellen Carter Rolling Home Lord of the Dance You ain't going Nowhere Amadou Diallo |
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Subject: RE: BS: Instant folksong From: Hyperabid Date: 15 Mar 00 - 07:13 AM Nothing wrong with "Sweet Home Alabama" Hyp |
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Subject: RE: BS: Instant folksong From: GUEST,Marymac Date: 15 Mar 00 - 07:56 AM Amos, are you, the pre-eminent songwriter of Mudcat, challenging 'spaw for the chief humorist title, as well?!!! You two had me laughing till tears filled my eyes!!! I plan on visiting So. CA later this spring sometime. Maybe I could meet you at some point, if I'm not totally swept away by family stuff. I plan on flying in and out of your fair city. I'll see you and Barky on the radio! Marymac |
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Subject: RE: BS: Instant folksong From: Jeri Date: 15 Mar 00 - 09:41 AM Kat, it's the same song. The tune was written for a UK television show in the 80's. I don't know if the words were added later - there are two sets. There was a discussion of the song a while ago, but I don't have a clue how to find it since supersearch down. (And believe me, I've tried.) It's says something about the song's chances if even Joe Hickerson and the Patons thought it was trad, eh? And like I said, it appears to me the authors haven't done a whole lot to ensure their names are attached to the song. It really is a dilemma. I'm torn between giving credit where credit is due and just letting songs slip into oral tradition. There's a problem when authors' names are known, because some feel theirs is the correct version. The chances of the song being folk-processed are slim. I'm sure authors squeak things in all the time - "I learned this from an old man I met in a pub," not, "I wrote it last Thursday."
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Subject: RE: BS: Instant folksong From: Alice Date: 15 Mar 00 - 10:00 AM Jeri, if you are searching for a thread that you know you posted to, just do a forum search on your name and all the threads you've posted will come up. Go to Quick Links and choose Search The Forum. alice |
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Subject: RE: BS: Instant folksong From: Amos Date: 15 Mar 00 - 10:02 AM MM I'd be a damn fool to try and touch Spaw's Vein of Humor. (That's because there's a Vas Deferens between his and mine...). Nah, it's an apprenticeship thing... he's teaching me to be a foul-tempered curmudgeon. I had to sign a contract to bitch and moan for five years, but it looked easy at the time. Well, when is this trip of yours? Need a ride? I'd love to visit for a bit. Drop me some mail at amos@san.rr.com, let me know what your plans are. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Instant folksong From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 15 Mar 00 - 10:36 AM McGrath of Harlow: You can't mean Rolling Home; that's from at least the 1800s. Maybe you mean Rolling Home to Old Maui, by Stan Rogers. If so, it's a great song, and deserves to stick around and become a traditional song. Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: BS: Instant folksong From: Jeri Date: 15 Mar 00 - 11:20 AM Dave, you mean the Old Maui that Stan Hugill collected? One song that Stan Rogers did write which will probably get included is "Barrett's Privateers." Alice - thanks I tried that, but didn't have much luck. I don't know if the thread may have been titled something else. I'll try again. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Instant folksong From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler Date: 15 Mar 00 - 11:30 AM Flower of Scotland has not only become an instant folk song but a de facto national anthem sung at Scots Rugby matches. RtS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Instant folksong From: Jeri Date: 15 Mar 00 - 11:54 AM AHA! Found it here. The tune for "Dark Island" was composed in 1958, and originally was a pipe lament for a local doctor titled "Dr. Mackay's Farewell to Creagorry" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Instant folksong From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 15 Mar 00 - 11:55 AM Jeri: I was mistaken! I was wrong! Even I! (And they said it couldn't be done!)
I would have sworn I had read on one of Stan Rogers's CDs that he had written it, but I just checked and found not so. Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa. Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: BS: Instant folksong From: Jeri Date: 15 Mar 00 - 12:03 PM Dave, it's ok. I've been reading through my old posts and have been rememinded of loads of oopsies I've made. I'm jealous - you've only been wrong once! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Instant folksong From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 15 Mar 00 - 03:25 PM doestarr: Rolling Home from the 1880's? John Tams who wrote it looks remarkably well preserved. Of course folk songs sometimes get ascribed to someone who just found them, but I'm pretty sure that in this case it was John Tams, for a play about the Tolpuddle Martyrs.
doestarr's comment seems to suggest that this is one song that has in fact made it through to genuine folk status. (That's assuming it's the same Rolling Home I'm talking about - |
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Subject: RE: BS: Instant folksong From: kendall Date: 16 Mar 00 - 03:31 PM vas deferns?? that was very clever |