poetry by Douglas Hyde / de Hide

Subject: Douglas de Hide's poetry
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 17 Mar 00 - 11:00 PM

Hi all!

I would greatly appreciate any leads that could direct me to translations and/or origionals...

thanks! ttr

P.S........AOIBHINN CRONAN is especially desired...

Subject: RE: Douglas de Hide's poetry
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 18 Mar 00 - 11:22 AM

It is a poem about bees that was set to music by Peadar O Riada, and I find it to be enchanting and beautiful. He arranges this song with the Cuil Aodha Choir backing up a single young boy's voice.... splendid!

Subject: RE: Douglas de Hide's poetry
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 18 Mar 00 - 11:30 AM

A.K.A. Dúbhglas de h-Íde, Douglas Hyde and An Craobhín Aoibhinn, it would seem!  I've drawn a blank on Gaelic texts, but English texts of My Grief on the Sea, The Cooleen, The Breedyeen, Nelly of the Top-Knots and I Shall Not Die For Thee can be found in Lyra Celtica,  here.  Some of Hyde's translations of Ranns are  here.

There are bibliographies  here,  here, and  here, and a rather good portrait of the man  here. 

Oh, and there's a short piece about his time at the University of New Brunswick,  here.

Malcolm

Subject: RE: Douglas de Hide's poetry
From: GUEST,hollowfox
Date: 18 Mar 00 - 11:50 AM

Could this be the same as Douglas Hyde (1860-1949)? My library has Love Songs of Connacht: being the Fourth chapter of the Songs of Connacht (Barnes & Noble, 1968) It's in both Irish and English.

Subject: RE: Douglas de Hide's poetry
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 18 Mar 00 - 01:32 PM

The very same.  I've found some Gaelic texts:

My Grief on the Sea (Mo Bhrón ar an Bhfarraige)  here.

I Shall Not Die For Thee (Ní bhfáigh mise bás duit :2 versions):  here.

And,  A Curse (Hyde's English translation):  here.

Malcolm

Subject: RE: Douglas de Hide's poetry
From: GUEST,skavo 98
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 04:11 PM

there is no poetry

Subject: info: Douglas Hyde's poetry
From: keberoxu
Date: 20 Jun 16 - 03:09 PM

The troll shall not have the last word here.

Title: Ubhla de 'n Craoibh [translation: apples from the branch]
author's pen-name: Craoibhín Aoibhinn
author's real name: Douglas Hyde   ["de Hide" ?!]
publication: Dublin: Gill, 1900

comments by biographer Gareth W. Dunleavy:
"a collection of thirty-three of his own poems in Irish that had appeared in weekly newspapers. [....] several were odes written for Gaelic League occasions, and others were ballads dealing with emigration, exile, defeat, and death. "   page 77, "Douglas Hyde," published London: Associated University Presses, 1974

Subject: RE: Douglas de Hide's poetry
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 20 Jun 16 - 03:50 PM

-Uachtaráin,1, Dubhghlas de hÍde, Douglas Hyde, President of Ireland, TG4, Stair na hÉireann -

Subject: Lyr Req: "Aoibhinn Cronan"
From: keberoxu
Date: 20 Jun 16 - 06:22 PM

Am I the only one who found the first two posts confusing? Let me see what I can set straight.

An Chraoibhín Aoibhinn: The Pleasant Little Branch, the pen name of Douglas Hyde esp. when writing in Gaelic

Aoibhinn Crónán: The Humming of the Bees, a Gaelic-language poem arranged for chorus of men and boys. Author: Douglas Hyde; composer: Peadar Ó Ríada

A video of Ó Ríada leading the choir (founded by his father) singing this song, on a television broadcast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3oLCzTwPos

Subject: RE: Douglas de Hide's poetry
From: keberoxu
Date: 21 Jun 16 - 03:04 PM

The following is FULL of errors. I could only locate it in a 1944 printing of the Farmer's Gazette! online, at books.google.com

Please help me with this one! Do you have it in print someplace, Mudcatters?


Is aoibhinn crónán na mbeach bhfiadhain
Sna scothaibh fe blath aon la deagh- ?
Nuair dheallruigheann grian ar chnoc is ar bre
Is ??? an domhan fe shoillse an lae

Ach an son is binne do chlointear ann
'S é fuaim na beiche 'measc blath na mbeann
Nuair sonaid sciathain gach mil ar an
Is deintear binn chláirseach den mhor-chnoc go leir

O tabhair dom slibah fiadhain le fraoch fe bhlath
Is speir ghlan an tsamraidh gan smuit gan ???
Soctha ag deallrugbadh am ??    ceall go leir
Is crónán na mbeach os mo chionn ins an speir

Subject: RE: Douglas de Hide's poetry
From: keberoxu
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 02:23 PM

Moderators:
could the thread title be altered to spell Douglas Hyde's poetry? It's true he published under this other spelling during his lifetime, but his considerable works on the Gaelic language and Celtic culture are mostly indexed under Hyde.

And talking of his own poetry: where can you find it today? Are his poems in print anywhere? Because my searches are failing to find anything, apart from the Farmer's Gazette in 1944 -- !

Subject: RE: Douglas de Hide's poetry
From: keberoxu
Date: 23 Jun 16 - 07:39 PM

"there is no poetry"


book title: Poems and Ballads of Young Ireland
publication: Dublin: M. H. Gill & Son, 1888

In no particular order, those contributors who are not anonymous are:
John Todhunter (including his "Aghadoe")
Katharine Tynan
Patrick Henry
T.W. Rolleston
Charles Gregory Fagan
Rose Kavanagh
Ellen O'Leary
Frederick J. Gregg
George Noble Plunkett
William Butler Yeats (including "The Stolen Child")
and from
An Craoibhin Aoibhínn, last but not least, these five contributions:
Bron-Caoineadh Sheagain Ui Mathghamhain /
Death Lament of John O Mahoney
St. Columcille and the Heron
A Ballad of '98
Marching Song of the Gaelic Athletes
From the Irish: "O were you on the mountain"
(Douglas Hyde's English translation of "An Raibh Tu Ag An gCarraig" , two verses)

Subject: RE: Douglas de Hide's poetry
From: GUEST,keberoxu
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 02:41 PM

Defeated again. Online, at last, at Hathitrust digital collections, I had free open access to the book of poems, "Ubhla de 'n Craoibh." Went through the book, cover to cover.

No humming of the bees -- maybe two dozen other poems, but not that poem.

So I am still hunting for a proper edition copy of the poem that begins

"is aoibhinn crónán na mbeach bhfiadain"

which speaks of

"the delightful humming of the bees in their nest in the field"

Subject: RE: Douglas de Hide's poetry
From: keberoxu
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 06:27 PM

The Peadar O Riada / Cuil Aodha chorus performance video does not give the poem anyplace, but I have found the lyrics at last. The trouble is that there is no credit, that I can observe, to Douglas Hyde. However, since the poem matches the lyrics, the least I can do is post it here, with bibliography.

In the anthology, the two pages are titled: CRÓNÁN NA MBEACH

Lá geal samhraid gan smúit san spéir;
mórbhrothal an mheadhon-lae ag loisceadh an tailimh is an duine;
sliabh fiadhain agus fraoch fé bláth;
agus na beacha móra ioldathacha chun saothair.
Is beag duine nach cuimhin leis a leithéid sin de lá do chaitheamh go díamhaoin smaointeach uair éigin dá shaogal.
Na luidhe ar fhlearg a dhroma dó sa bhfraoch,
a aghaidh dóighte ón ngréin,
ní léir dó fuaim ná ngluaiseacht 'na thimcheall ach na beacha.
Tá an oiread sain ciúinis ann go gceapann sé

    Go sonaid sciatháin gach míl ar an spéir
    Is go ndeintear binn-chláirseach den mór-chnoc go léir.

Mar tá an taer ciúin ar fuaimint acu.

Sin é atá san amhrán deas so: cúntas ar lá deagh-sín ach tá fíor-dhraoideacht an tsamhraidh ar fheabhas ann,
gile spéire, gáire scotha, cumhracht fraoich agus
"crónán na mbeach os mo chionn ins an spéir."

Ní fios cé dhein.   

Meadair an amhráin air:

    _x__x_x_í
    _x__x_x_í.   

[End of introduction to poem; no English translation. Poem follows.]

pp. 50 - 51, Óir-Chiste. Duanaire Liricí do 'n Aos Foghluma. Séamus Ó hAodha, M.A. do thoigh.
Óir-Chiste Filíochta.
Educational Company of Ireland, Ltd. Dublin, 1922

Subject: Lyr Add: Cronan na mBeach a/k/a/ Aoibhinn Cronan
From: keberoxu
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 07:03 PM

the title of the poem is

CRÓNÁN NA MBEACH

[no author credit in the source -- bibliography, end of previous post in this thread]

Is aoibhinn crónán na mór-bheach bhfiadhain
Sna scothaibh fé bhláth aon lá deagh-shín
Nuair dheallruigheann grian ar chnoc is ar bhré
Is gáireann an domhan fé shoillse an lae

Ach an son is binne do chluintear ann
'S é fuaim na beiche 'measc bláth na mbeann
Nuair sonaid sciatháin gach míl ar an spéir
Is deintear binn-chláirseach den mhór-chnoc go léir

Ó tabhair dom sliabh fiadhain le fraoch fé bhláth
Is spéir ghlan an tsamhraidh gan smúit gan scáth
Scotha ag deallrughadh am thímcheall go léir
Is crónán na mbeach os mo chionn ins an spéir


That's it....could I interest anyone in translating it into English?
Because if I attempted it, it would be the blind leading the, er, the rest of you.

Subject: RE: Douglas de Hide's poetry
From: Thompson
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 04:02 AM

Could Joe Offer maybe change the thread title (with the author's assent, of course) to read either 'Douglas Hyde's poetry' or 'Dubhglas de h-Íde's poetry". No one is going to find 'Douglas de Hide' on a search; there's no such name.

My first resort was archive.org; it has a collection of stories called
An Sgéaluidhe Gaedhealach (1901) (The Irish Storyteller), which seem to wander in and out from Irish to French on a quick glance, and contains the pleasing rhyme

A chú le na chois
A sheabhach ar a bhois
A's a chapall breagh dubh d'á iomchar

('His hound at his heel, his hawk on his wrist, and a brave steed to carry him whither he list', as Padraic Colum would revoice it in English in his 1916 book The King of Ireland's Son, using parts of the same story). The book is a Google version, and is a bit all over the place, but I look forward to reading it.

To know more about Dubhglas de h-Íde (or Dúbhglas as he or the printers spelled it), Ricorso is as always a goldmine. Here's the Ricorso piece on him. This should give you some good leads, Thomas the Rhymer.

Apart from archive.org (which is easier to search from Google - eg

"dubhglas de h-ide" site:archive.org

in a Google search field - you could try looking at the online secondhand bookshops: alibris.com and .co.uk, abebooks.com and .co.uk, powells.com, biblio.com and ebay. You may also find his work in libraries, especially university libraries, and it's worth cosying up to your local university librarian who may be able to request books on interloan, though you'll probably have to read them there rather than taking them home. And if you have a university account or friend, you would probably also find jstor.org useful; there's also a facility for a 'guest account' there, which allows you to read three articles at a time, discarding them as you no longer need them.

I hope this is some help to you, T de Rhy.

Subject: RE: Douglas Hyde's poetry
From: maeve
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 05:45 AM

Easiest way to make the correct name available for searches is to correct it in your own post. I'm sure a moderator will be along as well.

Subject: RE: Douglas de Hide's poetry
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 07:34 AM

'you could try looking at the online secondhand bookshops'

Kenny's bookshop in Galway would be a good source for this sort of thing.

Subject: RE: Douglas de Hide's poetry
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 11:34 AM

Previous post was mine. Sorry.

Subject: RE: poetry by Douglas Hyde / de Hide
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 04:59 PM

I changed the thread title to poetry by Douglas Hyde / de Hide. I can't allow diacritical marks in thread titles because they don't work very well with our various search engines. I retained the "de Hide" to help the thread originator find his thread. I haven't heard from Thomas the Rhymer for a while, but I think he's still around.
-Joe Offer, Mudcat Music Editor-

Subject: RE: poetry by Douglas Hyde / de Hide
From: Felipa
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 05:11 PM

Joe, I think that was a good choice, also because Dubhghlas de hÍde chose to use the latter spelling of his name
- note it should be hIde, denoting that the original word is Íde and it has been lenited for grammatical reasons.

Subject: RE: poetry by Douglas Hyde / de Hide
From: Felipa
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 05:30 PM

note - hÍde is not pronounced like Hyde or the English word "hide"; the í has a sound like the ee in the English word "heed" and the word has two syllables, so something like heed-jeh

Subject: RE: Aoibhinn cronan
From: keberoxu
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 08:03 PM

Of course, I couldn't wait to see a better translation than mine. No, you will be spared mine, if only because so many words are missing.

What I can scrape together is a sound-picture.

A mountainside covered in blooming heather in the sunshine, a summer day. The sky is bright and clear. The honeybees are running their little circuit from hive to blossoms and back again. The delightful buzzing of the bees is like happiness distilled into a harp-like melody.

That's some of it anyway...still looking for:
dheallruigheann, deallrughadh, 'sonaid sciathain,' chluintear, deintear, thimcheall, bhré....

Subject: RE: poetry by Douglas Hyde / de Hide
From: Thompson
Date: 01 Jul 16 - 08:42 AM

Cluintear, deantear, etc are the briathar saor - usually translated into English as "they hear" or "it is heard" - the briathar saor, a verb which doesn't have a person doing it but a general doing of the action, is active, though, not passive. Cluintear comes from "to hear", déintear (properly déantar?) from "to do" or "to make" (same thing in Irish, as in many European languages. thimcheall is an old spelling of tímpeall or "around". bhré (bré) is probably brí as in "cad is brí le" or "what is the meaning of", I'd imagine. Spellings have been standardised over the years. I wonder if dheall is dea-, meaning good- or well-, so deallrughadh would be well-born?

Hide means nothing to no one in Irish, but de h-Íde or de h-Ide is the correct spelling (even without the fada, which wasn't used on capitals until recently, due to printing conventions). The h- is used in Irish to make a vocal bridge between "na" and a vowel or "de" and a vowel, which are hard to say without it, so you have "de h-Íde" and "na h-Éireann".

Subject: RE: poetry by Douglas Hyde / de Hide
From: Felipa
Date: 02 Jul 16 - 12:06 PM

deallrugadh could be dallrú - dazzling
scotha ag deallrugadh - flowers bee-witching (fun translation)
deallruighean grian - dealraíonn (verb: dealraigh) sun appears

perhaps sonaid sciatháin is a "sonnet of wings"?

But the most beautiful sound to be heard
Is the noise of the bees in the midst of the mountain flowers
When each insect in the sky is a sonnet of sound
Turning every hill into a sweet harp

(cluinntear would be translated as "is heard" and deintear (déantar) "is made" - each hill is made into a harp -- see Thompson's explanation)

de hIde was writing before the modern standardised spelling of the language, so that makes translation by dictionary more difficult. By the way, "cloistear" would be the more standard word for "cluinntear", but in Ulster "cluinnim" (I hear) is more common than "cloisim" (I hear). Cluinnstin is also the verb to hear which is used in Scottish Gaelic, and I just found out that there is a Finnish Smooth Collie kennel with the name "Cluinntear"! http://www.smooth-collie.net/view.php?id=2925

Subject: RE: poetry by Douglas Hyde / de Hide
From: Felipa
Date: 02 Jul 16 - 01:23 PM

ubject: RE: Douglas de Hide's poetry
From: GUEST,skavo 98 - PM
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 04:11 PM

there is no poetry


Subject: info: Douglas Hyde's poetry
From: keberoxu - PM
Date: 20 Jun 16 - 03:09 PM

The troll shall not have the last word here.

If you look at the message before Skavo's you will find that the links don't work. I believe that is what Skavo meant by "there is no poetry". So Skavo was not trolling.

--------
There are also a couple of examples of briathar saor in the song Cill Chais, words and translation of Cill Chais are already posted on Mudcat and you'll find some recordings on line, for instance on youtube. I dont know of any recordings of the poem "Aoibhinn Crónán"

http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=25522#3101632

Subject: RE: poetry by Douglas Hyde / de Hide
From: Felipa
Date: 02 Jul 16 - 01:49 PM

Peadar O Riada the younger appears to be familiar with the poem as he quotes the line "aoibhinnn crónan na mbeach" (pleasant the hum of the bees) in a photo of sceach (hawthorn) ag dallrú
https://www.flickr.com/photos/peadar_o_riada/7456757106

Plural of sceach is sceacha

Subject: RE: poetry by Douglas Hyde / de Hide
From: Felipa
Date: 02 Jul 16 - 02:09 PM

apparently the inspiration for a tune and an album name - Deadly Buzz, Aoibhinn Crónán
I'm fond of Caoimhín Ó Raghallaigh's fiddling

I see now that Thomas the Rhymer does refer at the beginning of this discussion to Peadar O Riada's tune setting. I forgot!

"Aoibhínn Crónán - A Peadar Ó Riada composition to go with the words of a Douglas Hyde poem in Irish. Played as a slow air below, but could be played a bit more upbeat if required." The Session.
sheet music and abc

instrumental on youtube

singing too - Cór Cúil Aodha

Subject: RE: poetry by Douglas Hyde / de hIde
From: Felipa
Date: 02 Jul 16 - 06:41 PM

no wonder the Séamus Ó hAodha book doesnt credit the author; "Ní fios cé dhein" means "I don't know who made [composed] it."

Subject: RE: poetry by Douglas Hyde / de Hide
From: keberoxu
Date: 02 Jul 16 - 08:31 PM

Yes, it is Peadar Ó Riada who asserts that "Aoibhínn Crónán" a/k/a/ "Crónán na mBeach" was written by Douglas Hyde. Apart from Ó Riada's statement, though, I have yet to uncover a connection between that poet and this poem. There must be one, I just wonder why I can't find it?

Subject: RE: poetry by Douglas Hyde / de hIde
From: Felipa
Date: 02 Jul 16 - 10:27 PM

De hIde certainly was an industrious writer,collector and translator http://www.ricorso.net/rx/az-data/authors/h/Hyde_D/life.htm

but some references to Crónán na mBeach attribute it to anonymous.
We'll have to ask Peadar O Riada for his source of information.

Crónán na mbeach
agus ceol na n-éan
ba bhinn im' chluais
i rith an lae

(The hum of the bees and music of the birds were sweet in my ears during the day.}
corrected lines from a children's book "Tara's Fortune" By Geraldine O'Neill sound like they may also belong to the Aoibhinn Crónán poem.

There are a couple of other de hIde contributions in this book of Irish poetry Fíon na Filidheachta (filíochta) pages 184-86 Different poems but also featuring scenes and sounds of nature

From the same digital book library, you can read a complete short biography of de hIde on line at https://archive.org/stream/douglashydeancra00coff#page/n151/mode/2up

Subject: RE: poetry by Douglas Hyde / de Hide
From: keberoxu
Date: 03 Jul 16 - 02:42 PM

Regarding the 25th post on this thread, dated 2 July 2016, 7:20 AM:

This thread is thread i.d. no. 19348.

The messages referenced in post 25 may be viewed in thread i.d. no. 160186, where they were posted to begin with.

http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=160186&messages=10

Subject: RE: poetry by Douglas Hyde / de hIde
From: Felipa
Date: 03 Jul 16 - 06:37 PM

thanks, Keberoxu, the comments were about Dubhghlas de hIde which is why I thought they had been part of this discussion!

Subject: RE: poetry by Douglas Hyde / de Hide
From: GUEST,Owlmirror
Date: 03 Jul 16 - 08:47 PM

For whatever it might be worth, here's Iarla Ó Lionárd singing a live version of Aobhínn Crónán, that I like.

I have no Irish, but the words he is singing do seem to match those sung by Cór Cúil Aodha, and they both seem to slightly differ from the poem posted above. Am I imagining this difference, or is it just the way Irish is pronounced? Or could the words have been changed slightly to fit Ó Riada's tune?

And thanks much to keberoxu for the diligence in finding the poem in the first place.

Subject: RE: poetry by Douglas Hyde / de Hide
From: Felipa
Date: 03 Jul 16 - 08:51 PM

correction I meant "wings" for the last word of line 3 (2 July 2016 12.06 pm)

But the most beautiful sound to be heard
Is the noise of the bees in the midst of the mountain flowers
When each insect in the sky is a sonnet of wings
Turning every hill into a sweet harp

Ach an son is binne do chlointear ann
'S é fuaim na beiche 'measc bláth na mbeann
Nuair sonaid sciatháin gach mil ar an spéir
Is deintear binn chláirseach den mhór-chnoc go léir

Subject: RE: poetry by Douglas Hyde / de Hide
From: keberoxu
Date: 04 Jul 16 - 05:31 PM

You are most welcome, Owlmirror. And I would feel a darned sight better if I could verify poem's author....if it turns out to have a different author than the title of this thread, how embarrassing that would be.

Subject: RE: poetry by Douglas Hyde / de Hide
From: Thompson
Date: 05 Jul 16 - 04:16 AM

A Google Books search comes up with the poem quoted in the Farmer's Gazette of 1944, with the author given as "Ní fios cé chum", or "Author unknown".

Subject: RE: poetry by Douglas Hyde / de Hide
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Sep 16 - 11:39 AM

Oh pleasant is the humming of the big wild bees
In the blossoming brambles on a fine (weather) day,
When the sun (is resplendent) shines over hill and brae
And the world smiles by the light of the day.

But the sweetest sound that is heard there is the sound of the bee(s) amidst the flowers of the hilltops
When the honeyed wings sound in the sky
And of the whole hill a sweet harp is made.

O give me the wild moor (hill, mountain) when the heather's in bloom
On a clear summer sky with no fog nor shadow
Brambles in blossom on all sides of me
And the humming of bees in the sky overhead.

That is my shot at translating it. feach ar "Foclóir Gaedhilge agus Béarla" leis an tAthair Pádruig Ó Duinnín do "scoth" Bré (Brí Chualann - Bray) smúid deallruigh (deallruigheann)
Sin í mo chuid.
Micheál

Subject: RE: poetry by Douglas Hyde / de Hide
From: keberoxu
Date: 15 Sep 16 - 04:50 PM

Thanks Micheál! That's what we're talking about!

It's been many years since the original post, but working all together we finally contribute something towards the request of that first post. Beautiful!

Subject: RE: poetry by Douglas Hyde / de Hide
From: GUEST,Rafay
Date: 25 Jan 18 - 12:56 AM

And two years later, others outside of this community thank you!