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Penguin: Lord Thomas and Fair Eleanor DigiTrad: LORD THOMAS LORD THOMAS AND FAIR ANNET G LORD THOMAS AND FAIR ELENDER or THE BROWN GIRL LORD THOMAS AND FAIR ELLENDER (3) Related threads: ??Who WAS the 'Brown Girl' (41) ADD: The Brown Girl (Child #73 from Hedy West) (6) Lyr Req: Lord Thomas & Fair Annie (Child #73) (25) Lyr/Chords Add: Lord Thomas and Fair Ellender (4) In Mudcat MIDIs: Les Tristes Noces Lord Thomas and Fair Eleanor (from The Penguin Book Of English Folk Songs)
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Subject: RE: Penguin: Lord Thomas And Fair Eleanor From: Alan of Australia Date: 20 Jul 00 - 12:59 AM G'day, Thanks to Malcolm the tune for "Les Tristes Noces" can be found here at the Mudcat MIDI site.
Cheers, |
Subject: ADD: LES TRISTES NOCES From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 18 Jul 00 - 10:47 PM Thankyou! It started off as a small cross-referencing thing, but seems to be getting bigger. Anyhow, with luck some people will find it useful, and I must thank Ed Pellow and Alan of Oz for doing the basic work that I'm just adding to. And now, here's some more: Analogues of this story appear in the traditions of a number of other countries; here is a French one. I have not attempted to make a singable translation, but it shouldn't be very difficult for anyone with a reasonable grasp of the idiom: LES TRISTES NOCES
This from Le Livre Des Chansons, ed. Henri Davenson (Cahiers du Rhône, 1955) Davenson gives no information as to the source of the text, beyond suggesting that it may go back to the 17th. century; the rather fine tune (a midi of which goes to the Mudcat Midi Site) is from the Franche Comté. This version was recorded by Malicorne on their album Almanach. Malcolm |
Subject: RE: Penguin: Lord Thomas And Fair Eleanor From: MMario Date: 18 Jul 00 - 10:30 PM Malcolm, love what you are doing. A great addition. |
Subject: RE: Penguin: Lord Thomas And Fair Eleanor From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 18 Jul 00 - 10:29 PM From the notes to the Penguin Book (1959): "The theme of this ballad is banal enough: a triangular love-affair that ends in the death of all three lovers. It is the characters that hold the imagination -weak, fickle Lord Thomas, haughty, fair Eleanor, and the dark, vengeful bride with the dagger hidden in her wedding dress. During this century the ballad has quite frequently been found over an area bounded by Devon, Hertfordshire, Hereford and Staffordshire. Also several Scottish sets are known. It is interesting that most of the English versions, and all the numerous American ones, obviously derive from a broadside text published during the reign of Charles II and often reprinted. Scholars incline to consider oral transmission to be almost a sine qua non of folk song diffusion, but ballads such as this remind us that word-of-mouth is far from being the only way in which folk songs have been traditionally passed on. In Scotland this ballad is sometimes called Fair Annet. It must be said that some of the Scottish oral versions hold beauties lacking in the texts under influence of print: such, for instance, as this embellishment to the description of Annet's grand journey to Lord Thomas's wedding:
There were four and twenty gray goshawks
In the version of the text printed here, Mrs. Pond's words have been expanded from versions collected by Hammond from Mrs. Rowell, of Taunton, Somerset, in 1905 (FSJ vol.II, p.105) and by Sharp from Mrs. Cockram, of Meshaw, Devon, in 1904 (FSJ vol.II, p.107). Other versions have been found in oral tradition in Hampshire (FSJ vol.II, p.106), Somerset (FSJ vol.II, p.109), Hertfordshire (FSJ vol.V, pp.130-1), Staffordshire (English Folk Songs, ed. C. Sharp, 1921, p.651), and Gloucestershire (Folk Songs of the Upper Thames, ed. Alfred Williams, 1923, pp.135-7). Kidson (Traditional Tunes, 1891, p.40) reports a Yorkshire version with words from a broadside of c.1740. " -R.V.W./A.L.L.
Other versions on the DT:
Lord Thomas and Fair Elender (The Brown Girl)
In the Forum:
Lord Thomas and Fair Ellender (with guitar chords but no tune)
Who WAS The Brown Girl? (Discussion)
Child #73
There is a version at Lesley Nelson's Child Ballads site:
There is an entry at The Traditional Ballad Index:
There are quite a few broadside copies, showing little textual variation over 150 years or so, at Bodleian Library Broadside Ballads. Of those in legible state, these are perhaps the most interesting:
A Tragical Story of Lord Thomas and Fair Ellinor Printed in 1677 "for F. Coles, T. Vere, J. Wright and J. Clarke, 1677. License note: This may be Printed, Dec. 13, 1676, Ro. L'Estrange".
Lord Thomas and fair Eleanor, with the downfal of the brown girl Printed between 1761 and 1788 by Thomas Saint, Newcastle upon Tyne.
A tragical ballad of the unfortunate loves of lord Thomas and fair Eleanor; together with the downfall of the Brown girl Printed between 1780 and 1812 by J. Evans, No. 41, Long-Lane, London.
A tragical ballad of the unfortunate love's of lord Thomas and fair Eleanor Printed between 1802 and 1819 by J. Pitts, No. 14, Great St. Andrew- Street, Seven-Dials, London.
Lord Thomas and Fair Eleanor with the Downfal of the Brown Girl Printed in 1811 by Thos. Evans, 79 Long Lane Wt., Smithfield, London.
Lord Thomas and Fair Eleanor Printed between 1813 and 1838 by J. Catnach, Printer, 2, Monmouth Court, 7 Dials, London. Malcolm |
Subject: Penguin: Lord Thomas And Fair Eleanor ^^ From: Alan of Australia Date: 19 Mar 00 - 12:36 AM G'day, From the Penguin Book Of English Folk Songs, Ed Pellow's rendition of the tune of Lord Thomas And Fair Eleanor (Child #73) can be found here.
LORD THOMAS AND FAIR ELEANOR
Lord Thomas he was a bold forester,
'Oh riddle, Oh riddle, dear mother,' he said,
'The brown girl she've a-got houses and land,
Lord Thomas he went to fair Eleanor's tower.
'What news, what news, Lord Thomas?' she said,
'O God forbid, Lord Thomas,' she said,
'Oh riddle, Oh riddle, dear mother,' she said,
'There's a hundred of thy friends, dear child,
But she dressed herself in her best attire,
Lord Thomas he took her by the hand,
'Is this your bride, Lord Thomas ?'she says.
'Despise her not,' Lord Thomas he said,
This brown girl she had a little pen-knife
'Oh, what is the matter?' Lord Thomas he said.
Lord Thomas's sword is hung by his side,
He put the handle to the ground,
Lord Thornas was buried in the church,
And it grew till it reached the church steeple top. Also search the DT for #73.
Previous song: Long Lankin.
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