BS: Cyberspace Friendships

Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships
From: katlaughing
Date: 21 Mar 00 - 12:31 AM

Oh, shite! Thanks for double-checking it, Jon. That ought to give him a real chuckle or have him scratching his head in puzzlement!*BG*

Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships
From: Escamillo
Date: 21 Mar 00 - 12:34 AM

What can I say about cyber-friends, when I've just received and incredible flood of the warmest support and encouraging words I ever heard ! I take this matter seriously too. Please Simon-Pierre, make a little effort and write more often, we enjoy your messages which (in my opinion) are perfectly written.
Un abrazo - Andrés (French descendant too, from Finisterre)

Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 21 Mar 00 - 12:38 AM

kat, I must just say that it is a little unfair of me to translate it back again. It would need a French speaker to say how accurate the original translation was.

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships
From: Amos
Date: 21 Mar 00 - 12:59 AM

The biggest warp in it is the use of signalization for posting -- the translater isn't hip to newsgroup "posts" or BBS style use of the word. So it is using a word which means something closer to a signpost. It wouuld be closer to use "une poste" meaning something more like a mail service message but I don't know if that is accurate French or not...

I think this thread is compelling, because I think it proves something about us as humans -- that we have a layer of existence that is just a godamn bit more than and in wondrous ways senior to the purely mechanistic, Crickian-Skinnerian stimulus response biomechanism of meatspace. Namely, we can communicate. Do you know there are actually schools of [hilosophy who assert that cmmunication is a logical impossibility? That kind of tortured logic makes me mad enough to spit sometimes.

Anyway, I think it is in that bandwidth where the addicition of friendship and good communication occurs.

I was juts noticing, finsihing the days duties, with what energy and interest I run down to the Mudcat Cafe, just as one would do in earlier years to a sidewalk bistro in Paris , to pick up some real and meaningful conversation.

Here, even the humor is part of a meaningful context which is richer and often more meaningful to me than most anything immediately around me, except for my closest family and friends. But those are rare, rare treasures in 3D living, and here I open up this silly box on my desk and there's a whole closet full of them! What a treat.

Affectionately,

Amos

Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 21 Mar 00 - 08:15 AM

Amos, you know how when you are thinking about someone, a person you feel close to in your personal (3D) life, and you have all kinds of wonderful thoughts about them. You imagine how it will be the next time you get together. How you will express your feelings, show some affection, laugh and share some quality time. But then, you get together and once again the walls of fluff get in the way.
It drives me nuts, but it happens all the time.
On the Mudcat I don't have to deal with the layers of goo around me. I can feel free and playful like a baby running around naked.
But I do still believe when in the presents of those we love, it is important to work on removing the the walls of fluff and goo that come between us and someone else you truly love.
When Mudcatter friends get together I think they will have to deal with this kind of thing too.

Little Neo

Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 21 Mar 00 - 08:17 AM

My last posting was for everybody

Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships
From: wysiwyg
Date: 21 Mar 00 - 08:19 AM

"We're coming to you live from the small closet on the desk of one Amos Jessup, where..."

Silly-box? Syllabus?

Looks like box but is closet?

Images tumbling like a mixed load of laundry at the Washerama.

Affectionately.

Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships
From: Mbo
Date: 21 Mar 00 - 08:27 AM

Praise, Praise, Praise...

--Mbo

Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships
From: wysiwyg
Date: 21 Mar 00 - 08:38 AM

OK, OK, OK....

Mbo... a gentle smile and a question... does being shocked in the 3D world make it hard to let friendship happen?

Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships
From: Mbo
Date: 21 Mar 00 - 08:51 AM

Umm...I don't know if I've ever been shocked in the 3D world.

--Mbo

Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships
From: Amos
Date: 21 Mar 00 - 08:56 AM

Absolutely.

It stuns the sense of agreement and suppositions about how things are, which is a primary ingredient of any bond. So it makes it harder to hold affection. Friendship depends on some set of strong agreements, if not in all things at least in important ones.

Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships
From: wysiwyg
Date: 21 Mar 00 - 09:07 AM

Addressed to Little Neo (threadstarter) and anyone whose heart would reply...

People have been saying what's good/bad, easy/hard, etc. about cyberpalling, particularly 'Catpalling. I would have myself a turn on that. I am not optimistic about being able to have a turn without starting a whole bunch of crap. So why start. Why? Because... it's boiling over... no wait it's just warm water on dry ice, a fog machine needing a vent.

[Relationship] for me is governed by my faith.

You know what is really hard for me here as a cyberChristian, here at Mudcat? Loving each of you I have come to love so strongly, so Christianly in my better moments, so... deeply--

And knowing what Source my ability to love like that comes from, while--

Also knowing that to get into that part of it will be SUCH a problem for SO MANY (many of whom I love and would love)--

That it is better to just DO the loving and not SAY the rest--

And why that's HARD is that part of what makes Christian love CHRISTIAN love is staying clear about it not being about ME ME ME.

And all I am free to offer here, IS me.

And that is hard. [hard] = [difficult]

And sometimes it FEELS REAL hard. [hard] = [sorrow, hurt] (Through everyone's filters about what ME may be.)

And I hold that as my own struggle to resolve [with God's help] [see even a little thing to say has Him all OVER it].

And often say nothing because the love I have, in that specific moment of reading what someone has said, I haven't learned how to [purely] give yet.

That moment of loving-not-saying is a prayer.

And put it in the personal pages? Even to maintain the level of pale messages people are able to accept, that I put in the threads now, I would have to be there ALL DAY. I do have some lovely close and more openly Christian friendships starting in the personals and I LOVE these. But sometimes I just want to start a thread headed "Jesus Loves You-- March 22, 2000" because there are getting to be enough of you I correspond with that it almost IS a thread, only each conversation is a separate thread instead of a group speak like other threads.

What's hard for me about being a Christian here isn't all the non-Christian or anti-Christian stuff I read here. It's just BEING a Christian, here. Sometimes I think I'm practicing here for a 3D ministry. But actually it's more that the 3D ministry is already there, and where I may be needed is right here. So I stay.

BUT-- PLEASE just hear me on this, I DO NOT want advice... it's just my add-on to the discussion, for today....

~Vented

Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships
From: Amos
Date: 21 Mar 00 - 09:25 AM

Well vented, Praise. I hear you. Appreciate the forebearance you have shown. I have a similar problem as a pagan SNAG

It's hard to come into a highly relativistic context with a core of strong certainties that aren't part of the environment. I think you're right about the walking instead of talking part. It's the only thing that makes sense in a forum such as this one, IMHO.

I told my daughter Barky that Áine had called me a SNAG, and Barky reckoned I wasn't sensitive enough to be a SNAG, that I was just a NAG. Hmmmmmmphhhh.

:>) A

Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships
From: wysiwyg
Date: 21 Mar 00 - 09:27 AM

SNAG?

Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships
From: katlaughing
Date: 21 Mar 00 - 09:48 AM

Sensitive New Age Guy/Gal and I am glad you wrote about this, Praise and Amos.

It has been difficult to curb some of what I have wanted to post, at times, due to anti-whatevers which fly around here at times. I guess enough Catters now know me for who and what I am (mongrel mix of Buddhism, Rosicrucianism, Native American metaphysics) that we can do it in the personals or by email, but it gets frustrating, esp. when someone needs help from any of us willing to give and I don't dare start a thread for them, Christian or no.

Thanks, Praise.

luvyakat

Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships
From: wysiwyg
Date: 21 Mar 00 - 10:00 AM

Oh yeah, SNAG, duh!! Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships
From: Amos
Date: 21 Mar 00 - 10:01 AM

Better to walk the walk of the universe than to argue about what to call it.:>)

Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships
From: GUEST,Neil Lowe
Date: 21 Mar 00 - 10:10 AM

Salons...I heard a little snippet of info that salons were making a comeback - parlors where *intelligent* or *thoughtful* (however one chooses to define *intelligent* or *thoughtful*) conversation is the rule rather than the exception. 3-D/Real Time/Meatspace versions of what we do here...a phenomenon, I understand, once popular many moons ago that now reemerges to fill a...need?

Metchosin made the observation that forums like these have revived interest in the fine art of letter writing. Are we now on the threshold of a resurgence in the fine art of conversation? What a radical idea. People might actually turn off their TV's and start talking to each other again. Is it "the end of the world as we know it?" Is The Mudcat Salon not far behind?

Just pondering,

Neil

Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships
From: Lady McMoo
Date: 21 Mar 00 - 10:21 AM

Your points are very well taken Praise... one or two here could learn from your generosity of spirit.

Peace,

mcmoo

Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships
From: Jeri
Date: 21 Mar 00 - 10:25 AM

Amos, do you mind if I appropriate your comment and change it a bit for the next "what is folk" argument?

I never mind people talking about what they believe, it only bothers me if people persist in expecting me to believe the same things as they do - about anything.

Little Neo - one of the things about written communication is people seem to get past the small talk and into their beliefs, opinion, and feelings a lot faster. We may actually know more about those aspects of people from an internet forum than from 3D. Uh...I think I'm just paraphrasing what you already said...

Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships
From: dwditty
Date: 21 Mar 00 - 10:34 AM

Dear Mudcatters,
I have not been around in quite a while, and, in fact, have not even had time to read this whole thread. I do feel the need to post here, though. Last Thursday, my sister's 25 year old son died tragically in a canoe accident in New Jersey. Jeremy was an unbelieveable spirit gifted with the ability to connect with everyone he met. His great love was fishing, and he reeled in people with the same degree of love and respect. So many referred to him as their best friend - what a wonderful testimony! Anyway, someone posted the news on the bulletin board of a stock he had invested his modest tip money in. Hundreds of people responded with thoughts and prayers for Jeremy, his family, and his many, many friends. It meant so much to our family to receive this cyber-love. (I am sure Catspaw will attest to the meaning of this friendship.) Since that time, through email, I have shared my feelings deeply with the person who started that post. She is without a doubt a wonderful and meaningful part of my life - a true friend. Maybe we'll meet someday, maybe we won't. The friendship will continue though.

From my Mudcat experience, I am no longer surprised at the relationships that can develop over the internet. I, too, think that, being unencumbered by a physical presence, we are all much more free with our feelings than we are in our day to day lives. So it is with great love that I consider so many of you my friends.

DWDitty

Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Mar 00 - 10:50 AM

Very well put dw.....I'm sorry for the loss to your family and his friends, but you have summed up the feelings of many on this thread quite beautifully.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships
From: Amos
Date: 21 Mar 00 - 10:50 AM

DWDitty:

I am suddenly and seriously saddened at the loss of your nephew even though neither he nor you and I have met. I can only offer my condolences. And I do.

You both make and speak your point well.

Maybe the connectedness from which I feel a small portion of your loss about Jeremy (which is tragic beyond words), and many others here will also, is our natural condition, and the "civilized" insulated sense of sharp boundaries separating us from really knowing each other is an arbitrary misconception. If connectedness is our more natural state and we simply get trained out of it through various tricks and misbehaviors (language, cultural practices, pain, and communication hassles come to mind) then the path we are all on when we practice connecting is one of getting back in touch with ourselves through the practice of getting in touch with others.

This speaks to Karl Pribram's notion of the universe itself as a sort of hologram, even if that seems a bit farfetched from these beginnings.

Anyway, from this perspective, the computer networks we use are like a crutch or an excuse for simply learning to do what we basically do naturally.

My sympathy again, about Jeremy. It is a hard time to go through when something like that happens. Speak out if I can be of any help.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 21 Mar 00 - 11:13 AM

Amos, I would rather look at this cyberspace form of communication as a tool rather than a crutch or excuse to do what we basically do naturally.
We now have an opportunity to get passed 'how's the weather' type conversations Jeri has mentioned and communicate the essense of who we really are.
Isn't that wonderful!

Little Neo

Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships
From: wysiwyg
Date: 21 Mar 00 - 11:28 AM

DWDitty,

I would love to hear more about Jeremy, here or in the personals. How did he do what he did-- in reeling in people?

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships
From: Allan C.
Date: 21 Mar 00 - 11:36 AM

This thread is continued in part II here.

Subject: RE: BS: Cyberspace Friendships
From: SingsIrish Songs
Date: 21 Mar 00 - 11:51 AM

DW--my deepest condolences I offer to you and your family...

---------------

The Healing threads that have been seen at Mudcat really changed my already good views of Mudcat and made them even stronger...I think it started when Spaw took ill--I was still "new" here and the emotions and pulling together that came through in those threads really touched me. And in other threads, not just Healing threads, there are some thoughts shared that have caused me to get a bit "misty eyed"...

The thread name tags are surely helpful, and maybe more will be added for not all "non-music" stuff is accurately labeled BS...

When people here share their inner most thoughts on sensitive and serious issues (and not so serious, too) what they are made of shines through...and that is true even if you "hold back" some strong views. Christian, non-Christian, etc, have all pulled together in times of great need. That is important...With so much violence and war due to differing views, it is nice when people from all over the world can get together and focus more on the commonalities and show our individuality in our views without it being a problem...(at least that's my feeling here at Mudcat.)

I enjoy the community here! I also know I can call you fellow 'catters friends!

Mary