Subject: Lilting From: GUEST,nutsmuggler@hotmail.com Date: 19 Mar 00 - 02:05 PM Please, can anyone give me any kind of information (ie: links, bibliography, suggestions, ecc.) about lilting, that strange technique of 'singing-a-dance-tune' used in irish traditional music? Thanks in advance. |
Subject: RE: Lilting From: p.j. Date: 19 Mar 00 - 06:22 PM Hi! Believe it or not, I just took a break from working on that very thing to check in on the Mudcat! There are lots of terms for what you are asking about... "Lilting" is also known as "diddling", "mouth music", "jigging", "reel a bounce" and "port-a-beul" (pronounced PORSHT-uh-beeul, meaning "tunes from the mouth" in Scots Gaelic. It has been used around the world for hundreds of years, for many reasons. It's especially used for dancing when there aren't any instruments around, but it also holds an important place in history for keeping tunes alive during times when people had to travel light (without the luxury of the instruments they loved) and for teaching each other tunes during times when the posession of certain instruments (like pipes) was grounds for persecution in a culture. It's been highly developed among the Gaels, then exported to Newfoundland, Nova Scotia and beyond, where it was absorbed into Acadian and French-Canadian culture. It found it's way down into Appalacian music, where I first heard it as a child. It wasn't until I became interested in Scottish and Irish traditional music that I realized so many of these nonsense songs I had grown up hearing actually came from Celtic mouth music and traditional fiddle or pipe tunes! I've been hopelessly addicted ever since. If you're looking for some on-line links, try entering "mouth music" into a search engine and it should take you some interesting places. Another key word is "canntaireachd", which is a more complex memory system used by bagpipers to teach each other tunes with very specific ornamentation. Do yourself a real favor, and find the CD called "Celtic Mouth Music" (ellipsis arts) or any recordings by Christine Primrose. There's also a great French-Canadian group called "Les Charbonniers de l'Enfer" (Hell's Coalmen) which is incredible. That should get you started! I hope this wasn't too much, I tend to get very excited about the subject. I'm sure others will ring in with some more information, too. Please let me know what you think of these recordings if you get the chance to hear them. Cheers, pj
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Subject: RE: Lilting From: Bill in Alabama Date: 19 Mar 00 - 10:00 PM I know many musicians who, in the joy/stress of improvisation, sing along with the notes they're playing on their instrument. Down here, that's what is known as diddling. Back home in the Appalachians, it was usually known as chin music. In Jazz, it's sometimes called Scat Singing, isn't it? But none of the practices to which refer is performed without an accompanying instrument; so I reckon it isn't lilting. |
Subject: RE: Lilting From: wysiwyg Date: 20 Mar 00 - 02:05 AM Is there a real name for EVERYTHING I do.......??? We really ARE among our own kind here. |
Subject: RE: Lilting From: The Beanster Date: 20 Mar 00 - 02:13 AM Nutsmuggler, I happened across this really interesting link from Ohio State University the other day and it might help you out in addition to what's already been supplied here by these knowledgeable folk. It's a "Folkie Dictionary." What you're looking for is listed in its index as "mouth music" so look in the M's. Click here |
Subject: RE: Lilting From: wysiwyg Date: 20 Mar 00 - 02:30 AM Beanster-- You're good. Too good. It's gonna cost you. Send Nutsmuggler an e-mail making sure they come back here for the answer. Please? I did that job for a month, wanna take it fer a bit? I have a project to do. I'll even tell ya how I did it the easy way.
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Subject: RE: Lilting From: The Beanster Date: 20 Mar 00 - 02:35 AM Praise, I'd be happy to help you out but I have no idea what you're talking about! What "job?" hahahahaa But sure, anything I can do to help, say the word. (Gotta go e-mail nutsmuggler). |
Subject: RE: Lilting From: wysiwyg Date: 20 Mar 00 - 02:37 AM TheB-- If you'll put your e-mail address in my personal page I'll supply details. |
Subject: RE: Lilting From: The Beanster Date: 20 Mar 00 - 02:46 AM Praise, I didn't know how to find your personal page, but I did find mine (miracle) (!) and so, sent you a message. Hope you get it... |
Subject: RE: Lilting From: wysiwyg Date: 20 Mar 00 - 03:05 AM Not long for newbie status at that rate, dear. |
Subject: RE: Lilting From: GUEST,nutsmaggler@hotmail.com Date: 20 Mar 00 - 06:01 AM Thank you very much! |
Subject: RE: Lilting From: wysiwyg Date: 20 Mar 00 - 08:41 AM so cool |
Subject: RE: Lilting From: The Beanster Date: 20 Mar 00 - 10:14 AM :) You're welcome!! |
Subject: RE: Lilting From: wysiwyg Date: 05 Sep 01 - 12:47 PM refresh |
Subject: RE: Lilting From: masato sakurai Date: 05 Sep 01 - 01:51 PM Mary Morrison's imitating the pipes is said to be "sung in vocables" in World Library of Folk and Primitive Music: Scotland (Rounder). Masato |
Subject: RE: Lilting From: Ella who is Sooze Date: 06 Sep 01 - 05:00 AM yeee, diddly aye, e diddlum dee a diddle o dum dee day ah diddliy aye dum dee deedle um dum ah diddle yip dandle o doo |
Subject: RE: Lilting From: GUEST,Patrick Egan Date: 03 May 20 - 09:17 AM Here are some lilting songs I could think of and added to a Spotify playlist: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4VpPMbsR6qlySyukjhYbna?si=AnPPHpwmTNa8KNFumpru2Q It's a work in progress, and I've been able to source a lot so far, but will keep adding more as I find them - so suggestions are most welcome! |
Subject: RE: Lilting From: Jim Carroll Date: 03 May 20 - 11:04 AM A fairly comprehensive description of the practice below, from Fintan Vallely's, 'Companion to Irish Traditional Music' We learned about it from the singers in West Clare, who remembered it as a feature of the House (kitchen) dances Many of them talked about the 'battering pots' - kettles, old popts,, even animal skulls, which were placed under the flagstone floors in the kitchens when the houses were being built in order to produce a hollow sound for the dancers - a case of homes being constructed to incorporate traditional music One of the most fascinating albums of the practice was once given to us by a visiting American at a once regular local dance here - Entitled simply 'Mouth Music', it covers various aspects of the tradition, in Ireland, Scotland and elsewhere - I've never seen it available since, I suspect it was privately produced If anybody wants a copy they will have to let me have an e-mail address Jim Carroll LILTING. Lilting is one of the terms used Ireland for a musical style known vocalisation. Its typical sound-structure been adopted as the colloquial term ‘diddle. - dee’ to denote (and often trivialise) traditions music. ‘Vocalisation’ is found in many musical cultures throughout the world, referring to the use of what has been termed ‘nonsense words’, ‘meaningless syllables’, ‘non-lexical syllables’ an ‘obsolete words’. In Ireland, the terms diddling, dydilling, puss music, mouth music, gob music humming and jigging are some of the other terms used, though lilting is the most common term. An example from another Western musical culture is scat singing in jazz music, where syllables are used to communicate a melodic and/or rhythmic pattern, the choice and placing of syllables reflecting tone, colour, rhythmic pattern and other features of musical instruments. These functions are also present in lilting. In Ghana, onomatopoeic syllables are used by drummers to communicate rhythm and pitch of a particular beat. Players of the tabla in Indian classical music use syllables to represent a stroke executed in a certain way. Successive strokes which make up standard rhythmic patterns are represented by syllables grouped together. Within the piping tradition in Scotland, a system of sung syllables or vocables was used, called ‘canntaireacht’, as an alternative to written notation. Within this, each syllable had a specific musical meaning. Non-lexical syllables are also used in musical cultures as diverse as Cantonese opera and Navajo cere¬monial music. Lilting has been largely overlooked in the consideration of Irish music, perhaps because it has been so widespread. Indeed, a common colloquial term used to describe Irish instrumental music is 'diddilee-eye music’ which refers to lilting. Lilting may be identified in four main forms: A memory aid for musicians. This is one of the most common uses of lilting. It can be used between musicians when they are talking about a tune, or in the teaching of a traditional tune. A teacher may encourage a pupil to learn id lilt a tune before learning to play it on an instrument, or during the learning of a tune, the teacher may lilt it along with the hesitant playing of the pupil to encourage her or him along. To supply music for dancing. Musicians often ascribe the origin of lilting to the need for music for dancing. Although lilting probably existed in itself previously, there is no doubt it had much importance in providing music for house dance, particularly in rural areas. It may also be that a shortage of musical instruments, | or difficulty in getting repairs done to instruments would mean the services of a lilter would be called on to provide music. Whistling could also be used for this purpose. A novelty item, e. g., so-called nonsense syllables as a refrain within a song, or in conjunction with an instrumental performance. Many examples exist of lilting as a refrain within a song text, as a chorus or otherwise both in Irish and English language texts. An excellent example in the collection of the Irish Traditional Music Archive, Dublin was per-formed by Colum Ó Ciabháin in Connemara in the 1940s, and was recorded for the BBC by Seamus Ennis. Entitled Port na Gibóige’, this comprises a spoken text in Irish which relates a story interspersed with lilting. A refined recital form. As the social function of lilting as a means of providing music for dance has declined through time, there has been a rise in popularity of lilting as a form in itself. It may be used by a singer as an alternative for songs, or by a musician in a session as a novelty item. Comhaltas Ceoltoiri Éireann has a separate competition for lilting in its annual fleadhanna. Although listening might give an initial impression of abstract use of syllables, analysis of features such as type of syllables used and their place within a particular phrase of music suggests that lilting conforms to an unconscious set of rules. It is an area awaiting further academic investigation. (AMA) Lilting sounds are very much the speciality of the individual. Thus there may be ‘Dubbley- dam’, ‘rupptley-tam’, ‘Row de doh’, ‘Dum de doodley dum’, ‘dithery-didle’, ‘dahm-tee- damtery’, ‘Hoor-ee-diddley’, and so on. Some lilters will mimic instruments - such as banjo (dinker-danka, dinka-diddely) or bodhrán (rupp-buppety, buppety-bup), or in slower tunes the flute/fiddle by using vowel sounds only. Lilting may well have come from a functional substitution for instrument, but while there are many expert lilters who address themselves to particular tunes as conscientiously as an instrumentalist, today there are also many who treat it as a high-novelty performance. Bobby Gardiner’s The Clare Shout takes most of his signals from skin-tensioned bodhrán, applying melody to a percussive interpretation of the tunes. This is not remarkable, consider¬ing his expertise is on dance-rhythmic melodeon. He also bends, stretches and slurs notes in the manner of a sean-nós singer TimLyons of Co. Cork is a fine lilter of complex ornamentation akin to instrumental music. This talent stems from his expertise both as a singer and accordionist, and may relate to the fact that he played harmonica in his younger days. Rhythmically, the syllabic structure of lilting follows the course of a tune’s time-signature: Die-dlee-iye, die-dlee-iye corresponding to a bar in 6/8 time, Dump-tee-dith-ery, dan-tee - dith-ery corresponding to a bar in 4/4 reel time. |
Subject: RE: Lilting From: FreddyHeadey Date: 08 May 20 - 04:54 PM ^^^^ Patrick ^^^^ that's lovely, thanks for the Spotify list. (Here it is ready to click https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4VpPMbsR6qlySyukjhYbna?si=AnPPHpwmTNa8KNFumpru2Q) |
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