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Help: Banjo Player Questions
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Subject: Banjo Player Questions From: JedMarum Date: 20 Mar 00 - 11:34 AM I have a few questions about becoming a real banjo player (I like to say I am masquerading as banjo player at the moment, but I really do wanna learn the instrument). I am playing banjo (and guitar) in an Irish band. I just found a Vega open back, long neck banjo (made by Deering). It has a beautiful sound and a great neck. I love it! I know these questions are pretty rudimentary, but what do you expect from a guitar player? Questions: * I had two of the brackets that hold the head in place were loose. I presume I need to find a tool to tighten these, how do I know how tight to keep them? * How do you tie on a strap? Do you tie it to the brackets? Will this not put excess strain on that bracket and perhaps even cause it to bend? * Can I get a good sound from a pick up? Or should I stay with a mic? I have already found that the instrument mics well (much better then guitar). Who makes mics and/or pick-ups for banjos? * What tunings are folks using? I have stayed with a G tuning, and used the capo to play in other keys. I hear there is a C tuning. Is that commonly used? What can you tell me about changing tunings on stage? I have found it is not difficult to retune on stage because the banjo tones cut through stage noise pretty well. * I am not using spikes or fifth string capo. I have been retuning the fifth string up or down as needed. I regularly go as high as A, and down to F. Down is no problem, but will I run into a problem (breaking strings) if I retune constantly? Should I consider a spike - or a fifth string capo? * Do I need to buy special long neck strings? Or are standard strings long enough? OK, now no flaming the guitar player for asking dumb questions! Thanks. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Banjo Player Questions From: GUEST,Bill in Alabama Date: 20 Mar 00 - 11:59 AM Jed-- I can give you my preferences; I am certain that you shall receive others.
1. All brackets should be uniformly tight. Try to count the threads below the hex nut on a tight bracket, and tighten the loose nuts to that point (maybe a little past, so that they don't slip. Hope this helps
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Subject: RE: Help: Banjo Player Questions From: JedMarum Date: 20 Mar 00 - 12:04 PM How do I get a spike? Do I have it put in? Or can I do it myself? |
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Subject: RE: Help: Banjo Player Questions From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 20 Mar 00 - 12:13 PM Okay, here's my take on some your questions, where I have a little different or additional point of view:
Strap. This depends on your strap as much as anything else. I like and use what's called a cradle strap, which goes underneath the brackets way down to the bottom of the banjo, where the two ends of the strap are tied off to each other with strings which come with the strap. If you have a strap that's not made for that, I suppose there's nothing wrong with attaching to brackets.
Spikes. I have spikes, but find myself tuning the thumbstring manually instead, partly because when I hook under a spike it's always necessary to correct the tuning of the string anyway. Despite the frequent retuning of the 5th, strings last a long time for me anyway. DAve Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: Help: Banjo Player Questions From: GUEST,Jeff Morrison Date: 20 Mar 00 - 02:09 PM My favourite tuning is G modal. Start with a G tuning and then raise the second string from a B to C. Hold down the second string at the second fret. There's your G chord without any 3rds (B in a G tuning). Great tuning for all those haunting mountain tunes. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Banjo Player Questions From: GUEST,bill in Alabama Date: 20 Mar 00 - 02:26 PM Jeff-- I tune the B string down a half step for the same kind of effect. I have used it on a couple of TV sound tracks when I wanted that particularly lonesome mountain sound. Bill |
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Subject: Model Railroad spikes From: Philj200 Date: 20 Mar 00 - 02:36 PM Did you mean model railroad spikes to act as 5th stting capos. I put one on my 1967 Vega the week I purchased it and it's functioned perfectly. Capo on the fifth fret in G tuning. Slip the fifth string under the spike. Voila, open C tuning. I like it a lot better than the traditional C-tuning. The trick is to drive it into the neck close enough to the fret so the bend in the string kills any vibration, but not too close of you'll have trouble gettting the string under. Figure an eight of an inch. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Banjo Player Questions From: GUEST,Jeff Morrison Date: 20 Mar 00 - 02:43 PM Hi Bill, That's a pure G minor chord and also sounds nice. I always thought that by leaving out the 3rd AND the flatted 3rd (minor note) you get the ambivalant, confusing sound that is neither major nor minor, giving the haunting qualities of the tuning. It apparently confuses the hell out of classically trained musicians. I love it!
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Subject: RE: Help: Banjo Player Questions From: black walnut Date: 20 Mar 00 - 02:47 PM jeffrey...i said it was ambiguous. not confusing. just ambiguous. ~black walnut
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Subject: RE: Help: Banjo Player Questions From: bseed(charleskratz) Date: 20 Mar 00 - 02:55 PM I play about half the time--at least--in "double C" tuning, like the G modal (2nd string tuned up to C), but with the 4th string tuned down two steps to C, an octave below the 2nd string. And I use railroad spikes: one at the 2nd fret for capoing from G to A and C to D, and one at the fifth, for capoing from open G to open C. I have installed them myself before, but now I leave that up to my banjo luthier who does a better job for only a few bucks. --seed |
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Subject: RE: Help: Banjo Player Questions From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 20 Mar 00 - 03:33 PM There are excellent directions for installing railroad spikes at the banjo-l.com. I forget where they are in the site, but you should have no problem finding them.
It's important to remember that you don't drive the railroad spike into the neck; you drill a hole and tap the spike in, with a little white glue.
Another important thing to remember is to be VERY careful when drilling the holes not to go through the back of the neck. That's easy to do. The article at banjo-l tells in a lot of detail how to figure how big a hole to drill, and so forth. As a matter of fact, print out that article. Even if you don't expect to install the spikes yourself, your technician who does the work may appreciate the copy. Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: Help: Banjo Player Questions From: Hardiman the Fiddler Date: 20 Mar 00 - 03:40 PM For those nervous about driving spikes into the banjo for the fifth string, there is a fifth string capo that is available---I think it is the Shubb Company, or something like that. HTF |
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Subject: RE: Help: Banjo Player Questions From: Art Thieme Date: 20 Mar 00 - 03:59 PM You start the hole for the spike using a VERY small drill bit. Only drill a few hars deep into the neck---just enough so that the model railroad spike can be pushed about a third of it's length into the neck. Then tap it gently down the rest of the way. I should hold nicely that way. If the drill hole is too small you might split the fingerboard. If your drill hole is too large the spike will not stay put. Art Thieme |
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Subject: RE: Help: Banjo Player Questions From: GutBucketeer Date: 20 Mar 00 - 06:23 PM Hi Jed: Glad you joined the Banjo forces. May you live long and prosper. Here is a posting from the banjo newsgroup on where you can get spikes very very cheap.
Subject: ****R.R. Spike Kit w/drill bit $3.50**** The kit contains 10 spikes that are 10/32 long and are .034 in diameter. I twist wire bit that is .032 in diameter. This drills the correct size lead hole. Complete instructions for installing the spikes. $3.50
Optional spiral mini hand drill for using tiny drill bits. This is a jeweler's tool. It's made of brass, about 4 inches long and about 1/4 inches in diameter with a small chuck on one end. Great for drilling small holes. $6.00
Send Check to :
Jim Atwater The March issue of the Banjo Newsletter also has a review of a new book from Mel Bay on playing the 5-string Irish Banjo. The guy uses a finger picking style that should be right up your alley. The book received a very good review. Good Luck |
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Subject: RE: Help: Banjo Player Questions From: DonMeixner Date: 20 Mar 00 - 10:09 PM Well here is my take on these questions. Firstly your description fits me to a "T". 1: My bracets are always loose some place on my Ode Longneck. I just snug them up until they all take the same stress to turn them. Torque wrench with a lot of reductions on it and a socket that I made in the shop. 2. I have the strap tied to the bracket below the tailpiece and to an "Eye" that is the last fastener in the Shubb 5th string capo I use. Balance s great that way. 3. I've got a Barcus Berry pick up in mine. sometimes its OK usually its not. There is no good solution except a totally accoustic one. I'm in a band and we can't use mics for the instruments, too much feed back 4. Because of physical limits I stck with 'Open G" tuning and I use two capos. One on the 3rd and I move the other around to give me more keys with the same playing shapes. Versatile and limiting in the same instance. 5. I used spikes before i got the Shubb 5th string capo. The spikes where fine but I did lascerate my fingers now and then on them then I got this Shubb and I love it. 6. I buy Vega Long Scale strings, I understand that GHS loopend strings are always long scale. Standard strings probably will be too short for your banjo. As a side note, I love the look of the longneck but I got a price for having a reugular scale neck made for it. Tired of hitting things with the headstock. I akso play the Ode with a flatpick as often as I frail it. Thats just the nature of the style we use in my band. and I use the shorter keys for that mostly. "C" "D" & "Eb" gained by capoing at frets 5, 7, and 8. Never flame the guitarist, they are too touchy anyway. Don
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Subject: RE: Help: Banjo Player Questions From: Jon Freeman Date: 20 Mar 00 - 10:27 PM My thoughts, 1. I agree that the tension should be even. I have a key for one of my banjo's and use an 1/4" drive socket for the other. I don't count turns or use a torque wrench (both probably more reliable) but just rely on my own feel. Similarly I like the head to be tight but I can not qualify that - just what seems right to me. 2. When I have used a strap, I have used the brackets with no ill effects. 3. It is years since I played around with pick ups and rarely do anything amplified but unless things have changed dramatically since, a microphone IMO provides the most satisfactory solution. The rest are issues specific to 5 string banjo and I play tenor. These are just my opinions/thoughts and I am no way a professional or an expert. Jon |
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Subject: RE: Help: Banjo Player Questions From: JedMarum Date: 20 Mar 00 - 10:33 PM great advice here, y'all. It'll take some time to digest it all. Don I agree that mics are the stages enemy, but I have found that the banjo mics better then the guitar, and i have not found it too bad, so far ... but I have only played a fw indoor gigs with the band - and outdoors is always so much easier. Mu guitar electronics are excellent, so I am not concerened about the difference in sound quality, and guitars mic so poorly anyway, but at this stage I am hoping I can get by with a banjo mic. It also goves me the added advatage of moving away from the mic when I brush,and in closer when I pick. Since I have mics, I'll probably see if I can ake that work while I consider the electronics issues, and investigate who has what to offer for a picl-up. I believe the guitar market has been so big, over the last decade, that guitar makers had to find a good solution to pick-ups, but banjos, on the other hand, have not had the same supply and demand sort of issue-pushing a solution for electronics. Although I see Nechville (and maybe others) have been particularly innovative with their electric banjo products. They also solved some of the 5th srtring peg problems by tunneling the fith string into the neck to a peg on the head of the instrument. Looks pretty cool, but I didn;t seriously consider taking the risk on buying one (over the web). |
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Subject: RE: Help: Banjo Player Questions From: GUEST,Chris/Darwin (at work) Date: 23 Mar 00 - 03:56 AM Some good advice here. I fitted a 'Jones Acoustic' pickup years ago, and find it to be very good. I read somewhere that Earl Scruggs used one, but recommended partial miking to vary the volume. I use a 5th string capo. I can't remember the brand, but it is barely adequate.
Regards |
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Subject: RE: Help: Banjo Player Questions From: JedMarum Date: 23 Mar 00 - 11:05 AM Ya know, I have been OK with retuning the fifth string, and don't mind retuning the banjo between key changes (I agree that adjusting one banjo string drammatically, necessitates fine tuning of all the others) - the banjo seems to be so much easier to tune on stage then does the guitar - and it's a damn good thing too, cause ya seem to get to do a lot of it! But my question remains; does anyone know if frequent retuning of the fifth string is going to make it more likely to break? I've never broken a banjo string, and I don't want to start! |
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Subject: RE: Help: Banjo Player Questions From: GUEST,Bill in Alabama Date: 23 Mar 00 - 11:09 AM My guess would be no, it doesn't make much difference. But since I never have occasion to make that particular change onstage, I could't give you a truly informed opinion. Bill |
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Subject: RE: Help: Banjo Player Questions From: GUEST,John Moses-Benicia, CA Date: 23 Mar 00 - 02:13 PM Please let me know how that pickup works in a banjo. I think I'd be a little afraid to try it myself just because the natural amplification from the drum skin on my 1978 Taiwan special just about blows out some of the violins and guitars I sometimes play along with. I think my friends would beat me with their mandolins and such if I plugged-in. Welcome to the banjo-playing ranks and be prepared for a lot of modified lawyer jokes (What do you call 1,000 banjos under the sea? A good start).... I've been hearing them over and over during my 22 years of dysfunctional banjo-playing. johnrmoses@yahoo.com |
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Subject: RE: Help: Banjo Player Questions From: Sean Belt Date: 23 Mar 00 - 02:28 PM I feel like I'm getting in on this discussion kind of late. But that's never stopped me from contributing my 2-cents before.
I don't think that you run much risk of breaking your fifth string due to frequent retuning. I've busted a couple of them, but it took months to do. Still, I wouldn't run around without a couple of replacements for all my strings.
Weighing in on the "To Spike or Not To Spike" controversy, I've never done it. I just re-tune when necessary. no real good reason, but somehow the idea of driving little nails into one of my intruments fills me with dread. Call me a wimp, if you must, but there it is.
- Sean |
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Subject: RE: Help: Banjo Player Questions From: PA Dan Date: 23 Mar 00 - 09:27 PM Definition of 'Perfect Pitch' : The ability to throw a banjo straight down a mine shaft and not hit a single accordian. |
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