Lyr Add: Shenandoah

Subject: History of
From:
Date: 07 Apr 98 - 03:50 AM

Hi! I'm researching the lyrics and a history of the song "Shenandoah." I wonder if anyone can give me some information on how the song came about, and what is the "Shenandoah" that the singer refers to? A person? A place? I always thought it was about a river, and that there was an indian chief who had a daughter that the singer was in love with...something about "I'll take her cross the shining water...Any help would be greatly appreciatated.

Subject: O Shenandoah
From: nannamk
Date: 03 Nov 98 - 03:47 PM

Trying to get some info on origin and words of the above.

Subject: RE: O Shenandoah
From: Pete M
Date: 03 Nov 98 - 04:00 PM

Hi nannamk, if you type in shenandoah in the filter box of the forum main page, set the age to 365 and click on "refresh threads" you will find the previous discussions on the origins of this song,

Pete M

Subject: RE: O Shenandoah
From: MMario
Date: 03 Nov 98 - 04:08 PM

these words?

Oh, Shenandoah, I long to hear you
Way hey, you rolling river.
Shenandoah, I long to hear you
Away, we're bound away 'cross the wide Missouri.

Oh, Shenandoah, I love your daughter
Wey hey, you rolling river.
Oh Shenandoah, I love your daughter
Away, we're bound away 'cross the wide Missouri.

Missouri she's a mighty river
Wey hey, you rolling river.
When she rolls down, her topsails shiver
Away, we're bound away 'cross the wide Missouri.

Seven years, I courted Sally
Wey hey, you rolling river.
Seven more, I longed to have her
Away, we're bound away 'cross the wide Missouri.

Farewell, my dear, I'm bound to leave you
Wey hey, you rolling river.
Oh, Shenandoah, I'll not deceive you
Away, we're bound away 'cross the wide Missouri.


according to the shantyman of the USS Shenandoah this tune originated with the flatboats during the 1800's

Subject: RE: O Shenandoah
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 03 Nov 98 - 05:44 PM

Hello Nannamk, There was another thread about this song back in May. Click here to be amazed by the depth and breadth of knowledge amongst the Mudcat clan.

Roger in Baltimore

Subject: ADD: Shenandoah (Connie Dover version)
From: GUEST,Rex
Date: 22 Mar 00 - 11:56 AM

This version I got from a Connie Dover album. According to liner notes, it is a song that was sung by both rivermen and cavalrymen in the American West; The last verse can be taken as insult or bragging, depending on whether the singer was one or the other.

O, Shenandoah, I long to see you
Whey hey, you rolling river
O, Shenandoah, I long to see you
Whey hey, I'm bound away cross the wide Missouri

For seven years I courted Nancy
No other girl would suit my fancy

She would not have me for her lover
Tho I never courted any other

One day she left for Kansas City
And its there she had a little baby

She must have had another lover
O, I swear it was a cavalry soldier

(Repeat first verse)

---

(from the "Somebody" album, Connie Dover)

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Shenandoah
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 22 Mar 00 - 07:26 PM

Rex, what is the name of the Connie Dover album? I'd love to hear her sing this!

Subject: Lyr Add: SHENANDOAH
From: GUEST,tricycle
Date: 03 Dec 01 - 12:27 PM

Oh Shenandoah, I long to hear you,
Away you rolling river,
Oh Shenandoah I long to hear you,
Away I'm bound away,
'Cross the wide Missouri

Oh Shenandoah, I love your daughter,
Away you rolling river,
Oh Shenandoah I love your daughter,
Away I'm bound away,
'Cross the wide Missouri

Oh Shenandoah, I'm bound to leave you,
Away you rolling river,
Oh Shenandoah I'll not deceive you,
Away I'm bound away,
'Cross the wide Missouri

Oh Shenandoah, I long to hear you,
Away you rolling river,
Oh Shenandoah I long to hear you,
Away I'm bound away,
'Cross the wide Missouri


I am looking for different/more lyrics (to include: "I long to see you...I long to see your smiling valleys, and hear your rolling rivers...") [e-mail]

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Shenandoah
From: MMario
Date: 03 Dec 01 - 12:30 PM

tricycle - see post above yours. Also try putting "Shenandoah" into the search filter.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Shenandoah
From: Dead Horse
Date: 03 Dec 01 - 01:40 PM

Oh Shenandoah, I loves your daughter
Away, you rolling river
I loves the place, where she makes water
etc. Rude shipboard version.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Shenandoah
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Dec 01 - 03:14 PM

In his 1926 book, John Samson gives it as a popular capstan shanty ("..easily one of the first three.") but says that it started as a song that was always a great favourite in the US Army.
Bound away,
Keith.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Shenandoah
From: jaze
Date: 03 Dec 01 - 07:52 PM

There are several great versions of this song I can think of: Arlo's, Van Morrison's, but none I've heard have the power and simplistic beauty of Connie Dover's. I want that cd for Christmas!

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Shenandoah
From: GUEST,Big Ron
Date: 13 May 04 - 04:07 PM

I just heard Peter Nero do it last night with his chorale group, the voices of the pops. He said that it was a sea chanty sung abord ships.
He also said that he "Looked it up" and that Shenandoah was an indian Chief and the sailor who is singing the song fell in love with the chief's daughter. I didn't quite belive all this and that is why I am here today.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Shenandoah
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 13 May 04 - 04:08 PM

Ron - check the links to other threads at the top of this thread. there is a LOT of information out there.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Shenandoah
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 May 04 - 05:31 PM

The long thread (101) posts lots of information- but also lots not to 'believe.'

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Shenandoah
From: GUEST,tom p
Date: 28 Jan 05 - 02:35 PM

hi ihave just found this site, i can play shenandoah on the mouth organ, please could you let me know the correct words to this most wonderfull tune i belong to a usa civil war reenactment society in england, they would have played this tune then wouldnt they 1861 1865 thanks tom prior

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Shenandoah
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jan 05 - 04:18 PM

They would most certainly have played this tune (and sung the song) during the Civil War. It was one of the favorite "campfire songs" among both the Union and Confederate armies. You might be interested in contacting this group Southern Horizon . They have recorded "Shenandoah" and did quite a bit of research on the version that was probably current during the Civil War. Their CD's would probably be quite reasonably priced, given the weakened state of the US dollar, and would be a good musical resource for you.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Shenandoah
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Jan 05 - 09:32 PM

There is no credible published evidence of the song being sung by soldiers during the U. S. Civil War.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Shenandoah
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jan 05 - 11:31 PM

There are many historians and re-enactors who would disagree with Q. But he knows everything, right?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Shenandoah
From: GUEST,Lighter at work
Date: 29 Jan 05 - 08:39 AM

See my current post on the thread "Song Info: Shenandoah."

When it comes to songs, "many historians and re-enactors" who usually know better do sloppy research or none at all. They believe what they want to. They also often assume, as do many Mudcatters, that people in the past had almost the same folksong repertories as a '50s revival singer.

I mentioned elsewhere the movie about CSS "Hunley" that had Yankee sailors singing "Fiddlers Green," which a Southerner then described as an old Irish song his mother had sung to him! Off by only 100 years, fellows!

JL

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Shenandoah
From: GUEST,Lighter at work
Date: 29 Jan 05 - 10:27 AM

Years ago I was told of a different second chorus to "Shenandoah" which went "And a rollin' [maybe "a-rovin'"] I must go, Across the wide Missoureye." I believe it was sung by folksinger Bill Bonyun in the early or mid sixties. I did not hear the whole thing myself.

Does anybody have The words to this entire version?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Shenandoah
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 29 Jan 05 - 02:09 PM

I just noticed that the "Southern Horizon" cd also has "Redwing." The lyrics were copyrighted in 1907, as noted in another thread, but a similar tune called "Birdie" (and other names) was popular in the 19th c.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Shenandoah
From: Steve T.
Date: 20 Feb 05 - 07:15 PM

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Shenandoah
From: Steve T.
Date: 20 Feb 05 - 07:21 PM

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Shenandoah
From: GUEST,harrygirl
Date: 27 Sep 08 - 09:52 AM

my goddddddddddddddddddddddd........................i like the song it's amazingggggggggg....... the feeling........ peaceful......

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Shenandoah
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Aug 10 - 12:07 AM

My favorite verse, heard at a San Francisco folk festival by Mahalia Jackson's daughter (sorry don't know her name)

For seven years, I've been a rover,
Away, you rolling river.
For seven years, I've been a rover,
But I've returned to be your lover.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Shenandoah
From: Art Thieme
Date: 24 Aug 10 - 08:32 PM

How about

My favorite dog was always Rover,
Away you rollin' river,
Watch where you step, my darling lover,
Away, we're bound away...

The last line was something about "merde happens."

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Shenandoah
From: GUEST,kbadtges
Date: 23 May 11 - 06:48 PM

I think Shenandoah is the name of the Indian chief in the song

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Shenandoah
From: GUEST,Daniel
Date: 24 May 11 - 11:09 AM

I always thought it was about someone who longed to return home to the Shenandoah Valley.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Shenandoah
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 24 May 11 - 04:56 PM

As I recall, th song achivde a burst of popularity when Eugene O'Neill use it in "Long Voyage Home"

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Shenandoah
From: GUEST,GUEST, D.P.
Date: 15 Jun 11 - 03:56 PM

Shenandoah

I read most of the other thread and this one, after doing so I was struck by the idea that this might be a slave song. Lyrics to the song were first published in 1882, and it was around the mid-1850s that many slaves (and their masters) began a serious emigration to Missouri. For one thing, importation of new slaves had been made illegal. "Bound Away" sounds very suggestive, and has been used in this sense at the time, as in Shallow Brown-

Oh I'm bound to leave yer
Shallow Oh Shallow Brown
Oh I'm bound to leave yer
Shallow Oh Shallow Brown

Bound on board a whaler
Bound on board a whaler

Massa gonna sell me
Massa gonna sell me

Sell me for a dollar
A great big Spanish dollar

I'll cross them Chile Mountains
I'll pump them silver fountains

So put me clothes in order
The packet sails termorrer

Oh the packet sails termorrer
I leaves yer with great sorrer

So fare thee well my Juliana
Fare thee well my Juliana

***

The possible tie to the Dred Scott case (which is credited for beginning the Civil War) intrigues me. Harriet Robinson and her to be husband were both born as slaves in Virginia and later sent to St. Louis via steamboat. On the steamboat Harriet gave birth to her first child, a daughter. In addition, Harriet's owner was Major Lawrence Taliaferro who was an Indian Agent for the government, who later had a daughter with an Indian woman (his wife and he had no issue). This could be an explanation for the verses about an Indian, which are written in the third, not first person.
http://aauw.columbia.missouri.org/HarrietSCOTT.pdf

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Shenandoah
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Jun 11 - 05:47 PM

The version of "Shallo Brown" with reference to slavery seems to be a recent remake, (by Helen Schneyer?).
None of the early ones have any mention or allusion to slavery, although mention is made of a mulatto or black woman in some (crossover with "Sally Brown?).

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Shenandoah
From: Lighter
Date: 09 Jun 20 - 12:19 PM

Fred R. Bechdolt, "The Sailor's Chantys," S.F. Sunday Call, Mag. Section (June 4, 1911) p. 5

“Of these windlass chantys there are many and they come from many places. The negro roustabouts on the Mississippi invented one, to sing while carrying cotton from the levee to the steamers. That was taken up by deep sea sailors and now is sung on every sea. ‘Shenandoah’ is its name. It goes like this:


Shenandoah, I love your waters
First chorus—And awa-a-a-y, you rolling river
I love your clear and rushing waters.
Second chorus—Ah! ah! ah! We’re bound away,
Across the western ocean.

(In the negro roustabout version, ‘Western Ocean’ was ‘Wide Missouri.’ The stanzas follow without choruses, which are always the same.)

The ship sails free, a gale is blowing,
Her braces taught and sheet a-flowing.
Black eyed Sue is sure a beauty,
To sing her praise it is our duty.
Give me a good old Yankee clipper,
A bully crew and a swearing skipper.
Shenandoah, my heart is longing
To see again your rolling waters."

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Shenandoah
From: GUEST,Radriano
Date: 10 Jun 20 - 01:23 PM

Hi Deadhorse,

The verse you quoted is from John Short's version of the song. According to him, on most American ships they would sing "Shanadore" - and I don't see any rudeness to that line. It's quite charming with no rude words at all.

I find John Short's songs very interesting as he was singing decades before Stan Hugill so his songs represent earlier versions of shanties. Short's version of Shanadore is half the standard Shenandoah verses and half Sally Brown verses. Short's version also uses "wild Missouri" instead of "Western Ocean."

SHANADORE
From Short Sharp Shanties, Sea Songs of a Watchet Sailor, Volume 2

Solo: Oh, Shanadore, I long to hear you
Chorus: Hooray, you rolling river
Solo: Shanadore, I can't get near you
Chorus: Aha, I'm bound away on the wild Missouri

Shanadore, I love your daughter
I love the place she makes her water

I'm bound away, I cannot stay
I'm bound away for Mobile Bay

I'm bound away for Bristol City
Where the girls they are so pretty

Seven long years I courted Sally
Seven long years I could not gain her

She said I was a tarry sailor
Oh Sally Brown, I'll never grieve ya

I gave her gold, I gave her silver
When she rolls down her topsails quiver

Farewell, my dear, I"m bound to leave you
I'm bound away but I'll ne'er deceive you

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Shenandoah
From: Lighter
Date: 10 Jun 20 - 01:52 PM

From the Short Sharp Shanties page. (Outstanding CDs, by the way, if anyone hasn't heard):

"Several years after he had initially introduced his parishioner, John Short, to Cecil Sharp, the Rev. Alan Brockington – by now a vicar in Liverpool - wrote to The Times in response to a discussion about the origins of Shenandoah, going on to say that: ‘I visited Mr. Short again in 1928. My wife was with me, and I asked him to sing Shanadar for her benefit. He said: “I don’t know as I like Shanadar.” I wondered why he did not like the song, and then I remembered that that we had omitted from the published book one line he had sung in 1914, on account of its – well, unsuitability. Mr. Short seeing a lady was present and being too old to change his words at a moment’s notice, escaped from his embarrassment by saying that he did not like the song. Whereas in 1914, it was the only tune that, of his own proper volition, and without any remark from Cecil Sharp, he had praised.’ The line, duly noted in Sharp’s notebook and faithfully recorded on the CD is, of course:

Oh Shanadar, I love your daughter
I love the place she makes her water."

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Shenandoah
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jun 20 - 07:03 AM

Better near rhymes given by "sailor" and "gain her". When did modern "Hooray" become more common than "Hurrah"? Different for different countries? Marine Corps?!

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Shenandoah
From: Lighter
Date: 13 Jun 20 - 09:54 AM

Oxford has a "hurray" (spelled "hurrea") from Goldsmith in 1773 and "hurray" (thus spelled) from Thackerey in 1855. The OED finds the spelling "Hooray" from 1888.

As one who used to analyze this stuff as part of my job, I can say that I never encountered the USMC "OO-rah!" till the '90s.

Same for U.S. Army and Air Force "HOO-ah!" and U.S. Navy and Coast Guard "HOO-yah!"

Somebody must actually have gotten paid for introducing these.

During the Civil War, Confederates gave various "rebel yells" in battle, while Federals to have favored "Hurrah" and "Hurray."

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Shenandoah
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jun 20 - 10:33 AM

Thanks for precise references.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Shenandoah
From: Lighter
Date: 13 Jun 20 - 03:46 PM

Thomas Odell, "The Smuggler, a Comedy" (Dublin, 1729), p. 29:

"ALL.   Hurray! that's well; but how was't?"

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Shenandoah
From: Rex
Date: 13 Jun 20 - 05:05 PM

Lighter, I thank you for these references. I am always looking for word origins. I've found the earliest mention of the related cheer "huzza" in 1811 Dictionary in the Vulgar Tongue by Francis Grose

"Said to have been originally the cry of the huzzars or Hungarian light horse; but now the national shout of the English, both civil and military, in the sea phrase termed a cheer; to give three cheers being to huzza thrice."

I find this in accounts during the Civil War and Spanish American War and invite any views you may have on its origin.

And then there's "Three Cheers and a Tiger"...

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Shenandoah
From: Lighter
Date: 14 Jun 20 - 07:36 AM

Oxford has "huzza" from 1573, "hurrah" from 1686.

Back from thread creep: there's this note to "huzza":

"apparently a mere exclamation....It is mentioned by many 17–18th cent. writers as being originally a sailor's cheer or salute: ‘It was derived from the marine and the shouts the seamen make when friends come aboard or go off’ (North Exam. (1740) 617). It may therefore be the same as 'heisau!' 'hissa'! originally hauling or hoisting cries.... (German has also 'hussa as a cry of hunting and pursuit, and, subsequently, of exultation.)"

In other words, *perhaps* it originated at sea, though what a writer in 1740 might have known about word usage more than 150 years earlier is open to question.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Shenandoah
From: Lighter
Date: 21 Sep 23 - 02:01 PM

In "Cape Breton Captain," Capt. David A. McLeod recalled these lyrics from the 1870s:

Oh Shanandoah, I love your daughter
Away you Rolling River
My bully boys, I lover her ever
Ah, ah, we are bound away
To cross the Wild Missouri.

The sails are set and the gale is howling
Away you Rolling River
The tack is down and the sheets aflowing.
Ah, ah, we are bound away
To cross the Wild Missouri.

Oh Shanandoah, be good to Alice
Away my [sic] Rolling River
Till the day I die I shall ne'er forget her.
Ah, ah, we are bound away
To cross the Wild Missouri.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Shenandoah
From: Lighter
Date: 21 Sep 23 - 02:01 PM

In "Cape Breton Captain," Capt. David A. McLeod recalled these lyrics from the 1870s:

Oh Shanandoah, I love your daughter
Away you Rolling River
My bully boys, I lover her ever
Ah, ah, we are bound away
To cross the Wild Missouri.

The sails are set and the gale is howling
Away you Rolling River
The tack is down and the sheets aflowing.
Ah, ah, we are bound away
To cross the Wild Missouri.

Oh Shanandoah, be good to Alice
Away my [sic] Rolling River
Till the day I die I shall ne'er forget her.
Ah, ah, we are bound away
To cross the Wild Missouri.