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What's a Planxty?

DocMando 25 Mar 00 - 04:18 PM
Big Mick 25 Mar 00 - 04:27 PM
Sorcha 25 Mar 00 - 05:15 PM
Mrrzy 25 Mar 00 - 05:17 PM
Sorcha 25 Mar 00 - 05:40 PM
Linda Kelly 25 Mar 00 - 05:45 PM
McGrath of Harlow 25 Mar 00 - 06:16 PM
paddymac 25 Mar 00 - 07:03 PM
Sorcha 25 Mar 00 - 07:06 PM
GUEST 25 Mar 00 - 07:11 PM
The Beanster 25 Mar 00 - 07:19 PM
T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird) 25 Mar 00 - 07:22 PM
Lesley N. 25 Mar 00 - 09:41 PM
Big Mick 25 Mar 00 - 10:08 PM
Big Mick 25 Mar 00 - 10:08 PM
Kara 26 Mar 00 - 12:09 PM
GUEST,archivist 26 Mar 00 - 01:40 PM
DocMando 26 Mar 00 - 06:19 PM
McGrath of Harlow 26 Mar 00 - 07:46 PM
McGrath of Harlow 26 Mar 00 - 07:48 PM
GUEST,Neil Comer 27 Mar 00 - 02:59 PM
McGrath of Harlow 27 Mar 00 - 07:04 PM
GUEST,Annraoi 27 Mar 00 - 08:00 PM
GUEST,Guest, leeneia 27 Mar 00 - 09:41 PM
GUEST,Guest, leeneia 27 Mar 00 - 09:47 PM
GUEST,Roger the skiffler 28 Mar 00 - 10:27 AM
Lady McMoo 28 Mar 00 - 10:42 AM
GUEST,Neil Comer 28 Mar 00 - 11:47 AM
GUEST,Jay B 28 Mar 00 - 09:27 PM
GUEST,joy o s whos irish 14 Dec 14 - 03:51 PM
GUEST,Rahere 14 Dec 14 - 07:51 PM
GUEST,Steve Shaw 14 Dec 14 - 08:12 PM
GUEST 15 Dec 14 - 04:53 AM
GUEST,Steve Shaw 15 Dec 14 - 04:55 AM
GUEST,Rahere 15 Dec 14 - 05:29 AM
Les in Chorlton 15 Dec 14 - 06:17 AM
bubblyrat 15 Dec 14 - 08:32 AM
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Subject: What's a Planxty?
From: DocMando
Date: 25 Mar 00 - 04:18 PM

I notice a lot of celtic songs with the word Planxty in the title. Does anyone know what it refers to? It's not in any dictionary I have. Seems like a person's title, or at least a specific adjective refering to a person.

Doc


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Subject: RE: What's a Planxty?
From: Big Mick
Date: 25 Mar 00 - 04:27 PM

I believe there was an earlier thread on the subject. The explanation of the term that makes the most sense to me is that the term was coined by the 17th century blind harper, Turlough O' Carolan. According to this explanation, planxty is a corruption of the Irish word slainte. Slainte means "health" so planxty then is used to designate a tune to the health of Irwin, Mary O' Neil, etc. The story goes that if O'Carolan was pleased with the hospitality accorded him, he would write a tune to the health of his hosts.

All the best,

Big Mick


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Subject: RE: What's a Planxty?
From: Sorcha
Date: 25 Mar 00 - 05:15 PM

Slow, Mick, slow. You didn't even beat Bert!


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Subject: RE: What's a Planxty?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Mar 00 - 05:17 PM

Isn't there a very traditional band with that name?


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Subject: RE: What's a Planxty?
From: Sorcha
Date: 25 Mar 00 - 05:40 PM

Yes


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Subject: RE: What's a Planxty?
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 25 Mar 00 - 05:45 PM

favorite song Planxty Davies played by Nic Jones -a complete joy!


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Subject: RE: What's a Planxty?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Mar 00 - 06:16 PM

As I understand it, planxty is a kind of a dish - sort of like porridge. A mixture of nourishing stuff.


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Subject: RE: What's a Planxty?
From: paddymac
Date: 25 Mar 00 - 07:03 PM

DocMando - Big Mick gave it to you correctly. A planxty is an honorific composition. Some of them might seem a bit horrific, but maybe that't the famous Irish love of satire.

Monsignor McGrath's humorous post is really just a subtle commercial. Many of us suspect that he's branched out and started a cook-book company. Don't know if he uses it to sell his oft-times riotous ditties, or the other way around. But at the very least, he's known for the "food for thought" woven through many of his posts. :>)


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Subject: RE: What's a Planxty?
From: Sorcha
Date: 25 Mar 00 - 07:06 PM

Is he talking about OATMEAL???


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Subject: RE: What's a Planxty?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Mar 00 - 07:11 PM

Big Mick's right, of course...and here's a bit more info, if you wish, according to The Folk File: mouse here


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Subject: RE: What's a Planxty?
From: The Beanster
Date: 25 Mar 00 - 07:19 PM

Pardon me, I didn't have my cookie on when I posted that (kindly avert your eyes). Forgot to mention, if you go to that site, DocMando, just scroll down and you'll find planxty.


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Subject: RE: What's a Planxty?
From: T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird)
Date: 25 Mar 00 - 07:22 PM

Perhaps it derives from Latin plangere, "to strike" as a drum or other instrument.

T.


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Subject: RE: What's a Planxty?
From: Lesley N.
Date: 25 Mar 00 - 09:41 PM

According to Donal O'Sullivan, Carolan himself probably did not use the tune as the earliest known sources for his tunes do not use the term. Petrie says that the planxty is "a harp tune of supportive and animated character, not intended for or often adaptable to words..." "it usually moves in triplets with a 6/8 measure. It differs from more ancient classes of tunes in having less rapidity of motion and is not bound to an equality in the number of bars or beats in each part." He speculates that the name may be related to Pleraca - Planxty being the English term and Pleraca being the Irish term. He says even if the term was not used by Carolan, the musical form basically originated with him.

The word planxty may have derived from the english word, "prance" or "prank". Or it may have its origins in the word "flaxaraidh" - which may be he original form o the word based on a poem about Carolan. Or it may come from the Latin "plangere" or the Irish word "planncaim" - which means to strike the harp...

There is a fair bit more in O'Sullivan. There was also a discussion on the uk.music.folk, rec.music.celtic or rec.music.folk about it. It was an excellent discussion - you might want to try searching dejanews.com for it.


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Subject: RE: What's a Planxty?
From: Big Mick
Date: 25 Mar 00 - 10:08 PM

Yeah, but I like my story better...........;-)

....and one of my favorites is Boxty Mary Oatmeal.

Mick


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Subject: RE: What's a Planxty?
From: Big Mick
Date: 25 Mar 00 - 10:08 PM

Yeah, but I like my story better...........;-)

....and one of my favorites is Boxty Mary Oatmeal.

Mick


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Subject: RE: What's a Planxty?
From: Kara
Date: 26 Mar 00 - 12:09 PM

I thought it ment "payed for by" I like fanny Power


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Subject: RE: What's a Planxty?
From: GUEST,archivist
Date: 26 Mar 00 - 01:40 PM

see also Planxty?
uh-h-h plantxty

a frequently asked question!


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Subject: RE: What's a Planxty?
From: DocMando
Date: 26 Mar 00 - 06:19 PM

Thanks everyone. I see there was a thread about 2 years ago. Next time I'll search back as far as I can before repeating a topic. Now you got me hungry, McGrath!

Doc


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Subject: RE: What's a Planxty?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Mar 00 - 07:46 PM

I wasn't joking - I can't remember who told me, but I doubt if it's true, or someone else on one of the threads about the meaning of the word would have come up with it.

The idea of calling a type of tune after something you could eat didn't strike me as at all unlikely - there's lots of tunes around with names like "Mistress Norton's Puffe". And of course in concerts of classical music you get "lollypops", short bits of enjoyable music to balance out the stuff that probably gets discussed at interminable length on some notional "Classical Mudcat Cafe", under the generic thread title "What is music?" and "Is this music?"

Moreover the very title Mudcat Cafe suggests the same kind of thinking.

Anyway, this is from a book of traditional Irish recipes by John Murphy. He calls it "flummery" - but it sounds a lot like what I was told was "Planxty".

Flummery

Ingredients - oatmeal and water

Place the oatmeal in a broad deep pan, cover with water, stir, then let it stand for 12 hours. Pour off the liquid. Cover generously with fresh water, let it stand for another 12 hours, and so on for 12 more.

Pour off the water, strain the oatmeal through a course sieve and pour into a saucepan stirring continuously untiliot boils and thickens. Pour into dishes.

When cold, turn out onto plates, and serve with either wine & sugar, beer & sugar or mil. Cider and sugar is particularly recommended.


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Subject: RE: What's a Planxty?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Mar 00 - 07:48 PM

That "mil" should be "milk"


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Subject: RE: What's a Planxty?
From: GUEST,Neil Comer
Date: 27 Mar 00 - 02:59 PM

There is an Irish word, Planncadh, which translates as the striking of a harp ( 845 Dineen)If you take the word as referring to a tune type, and add Tí/Tigh ( form of the word for house 'teach') and put them in the order in which they come in Irish, you get Planncadh Ti Irwin ( the striking of the harp of the House of Irwin) It is a thought


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Subject: RE: What's a Planxty?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Mar 00 - 07:04 PM

Now that sounds very plausible indeed. Or maybe "in the house of Irwin"?


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Subject: RE: What's a Planxty?
From: GUEST,Annraoi
Date: 27 Mar 00 - 08:00 PM

Bhal, a Néill,

"Plancadh" Ó Dónaill lch 955 = "a beating / trouncing"

Three questions:

1. Whence came the intrusive "s" and "t" ?

2. More fundamentally why the Gen. Sg. Form "plancaidh" ?

3. Would you not expect the form "plancadh theach X" ?

Annraoi

N.B Tell your parents I send my regards.


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Subject: RE: What's a Planxty?
From: GUEST,Guest, leeneia
Date: 27 Mar 00 - 09:41 PM


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Subject: RE: What's a Planxty?
From: GUEST,Guest, leeneia
Date: 27 Mar 00 - 09:47 PM

I looked up planxty in my unabridged dictionary, and it claims that it is a harp tune in triple time that is played more slowly than a jig.

However, I have O'Neill's Music of Ireland as it was published in 1903, and in it there are planxties in 3/4, 6/8, 2/4, and 4/4.

The word Planxty is always used with a personal name, as in Planxty Toby Peyton or Planxty Nancy Vernon. So I think we can safely assume that the common impression that it means "health to" is right, and the dictionary is wrong.

The Irish word corresponding to "planxty" is "pleraca."


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Subject: RE: What's a Planxty?
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 28 Mar 00 - 10:27 AM

If anyone wants to know the essence of the Mudcat they should look at this thread: music question answered, erudition displayed, humour added and FOOD crept in as well!
RtS


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Subject: RE: What's a Planxty?
From: Lady McMoo
Date: 28 Mar 00 - 10:42 AM

...Ah yes...Fanny Power.

I believe that was the first Womens' Lib tune ...!

.....Ouch!

(sorry!)

mcmoo


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Subject: RE: What's a Planxty?
From: GUEST,Neil Comer
Date: 28 Mar 00 - 11:47 AM

Annraoi, I know that planncadh theach Irwin would be grammatically correct, but if the tune was known as a planncadh tí ( striking of a harp for/of a house) could it be possible that the persons name was added to it,not altering the original tune type?

Tá mo mhuintir ar a sáimhín suilt

Neil


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Subject: RE: What's a Planxty?
From: GUEST,Jay B
Date: 28 Mar 00 - 09:27 PM

Before reading some of the replies, I was quite sure that a Planxty was a musical tribute in honor of someone,but now I must admit as to being thoroughly flummoxed. By the way, what's a flummox? Or is it flumix?


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Subject: RE: What's a Planxty?
From: GUEST,joy o s whos irish
Date: 14 Dec 14 - 03:51 PM

I learned in music that blind harpers would come to the rich peoples houses or where they lived and they would play music for money a planxty was like planxty o shes or planxty o Sullivan it is a piece of music written about a certain lord and it is a poem telling people of his great life and work.


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Subject: RE: What's a Planxty?
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 14 Dec 14 - 07:51 PM

Ye Gods, nobody has it yet! This goes back far older than the 18th Century: according to the Brehon Law text in the Uraicecht Becc, there were a number of grades of Bard-Poet, who were regarded as equal to the political system because they carried both the heritage, both in history and law. In particular, the historic function had a certain amount of support for the political system in it, in that the bard would (if properly respected) perform in support of the local bigwig because...(and here the history of how he got there would be run off).
This form of praise continued until at least the 15th Century, possibly 16th, although by that time harpers were also suffciently often Catholic couriers as to have induced Elizabeth I to make the profession a capital offence - does anybody know if that was ever reversed? The last I know a goodly number of years ago it was still on the books.

A Planxty is a tune composed in honour of a local bigwig. Some of the examples in ITMA include lyrics with somewhat cursory history, so the practice descends from there.


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Subject: RE: What's a Planxty?
From: GUEST,Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Dec 14 - 08:12 PM

All I know is that I wouldn't be here on this forum, or on TheSession, or playing Irish tunes on the harmonica, or be loving Irish music almost as much as I love my life, or going out there and drinking gallons of free beer and playing in sessions in a totally symbiotic relationship with pub and people, or arguing with Teribus and Keith, were it not for a vinyl record I bought in the late 70s that had four tracks by the band of the name referred to in the thread title. One day Kirsty will have me on Desert Island Discs, and, when she does, one of my tracks will be Raggle Taggle Gypsy-Give Me Your Hand.


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Subject: RE: What's a Planxty?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Dec 14 - 04:53 AM

Does that mean Planxty were a tribute group?


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Subject: RE: What's a Planxty?
From: GUEST,Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Dec 14 - 04:55 AM

Nah. The gallons of beer are Doom Bar, not Tribute.


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Subject: RE: What's a Planxty?
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 15 Dec 14 - 05:29 AM

There was, of course, a flip side: if the harper were not "properly respected" he was quite capable of composing something to take you down a notch or two, the Despite tunes. It is not possible, however, to compose a Despite of Keith, because there are no negative values in music, thankfully.


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Subject: RE: What's a Planxty?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 15 Dec 14 - 06:17 AM

An interesting challenge is to play "Here, there and Everywhere" by the Beatles in 6/8. Planxty McCartney anyone?


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Subject: RE: What's a Planxty?
From: bubblyrat
Date: 15 Dec 14 - 08:32 AM

I always understood "planxty" to apply to a tune written about a male,whereas a "pleraca" was written in honour of a woman ?? Thus I always introduce "Pleraca Fanni Ni Poer" when I play "Fanny Power" as such. PS I believe that the eponymous lady was "fancied" by Carolan, who was invited to her wedding but failed to impress her with his musical artistry !


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