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Lily of the West -history of

DigiTrad:
FLORA THE LILY OF THE WEST
THE LILY OF THE NET


Related threads:
(origins) Origins: Lily Of The West (22)
Róise na nAmhrán's Lily of the West (16)
(origins) Origins: Flora Lily of the West (41)
Help: 'Lily of the West' known during Civil War? (40)
Lyr Req/Add: The Lily of the West (Knopfler/Chieft (20)
Lyr Add: Lily of the Net (3)


GUEST,Kingstreet 07 Apr 00 - 09:45 AM
MMario 07 Apr 00 - 10:03 AM
Malcolm Douglas 07 Apr 00 - 10:10 AM
Peg 07 Apr 00 - 10:26 AM
MMario 07 Apr 00 - 10:36 AM
Eluned 07 Apr 00 - 10:55 AM
Eluned 07 Apr 00 - 11:02 AM
MMario 07 Apr 00 - 11:06 AM
richardw 07 Apr 00 - 11:16 AM
GUEST,Mrrzy-at-work 07 Apr 00 - 11:49 AM
Kim C 07 Apr 00 - 11:53 AM
GUEST,Bruce O. 07 Apr 00 - 03:31 PM
Susanne (skw) 09 Apr 00 - 06:56 PM
McGrath of Harlow 09 Apr 00 - 07:49 PM
GUEST,Bruce O. 09 Apr 00 - 07:55 PM
Uncle_DaveO 11 Apr 00 - 12:19 PM
Murray MacLeod 11 Apr 00 - 11:05 PM
Stewie 12 Apr 00 - 03:34 AM
open mike 07 Jun 18 - 12:30 PM
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Subject: Lily of the West - history of
From: GUEST,Kingstreet
Date: 07 Apr 00 - 09:45 AM

The song Lily of the West is credited to E. Davies and J.Peterson. Does anyone know when it was first written, published, recorded ? Who were the first artists associated with it ? Is there one recorded version from which all the rest follow ? It sounds traditional but maybe it is just composed in that idiom or maybe the above credited authors took a trad song and formalised it.


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Subject: RE: Lily of the West -history of
From: MMario
Date: 07 Apr 00 - 10:03 AM

The Ballad Index shows it as author unknown, earliest appearance 1839.


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Subject: RE: Lily of the West -history of
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 07 Apr 00 - 10:10 AM

If that's Flora, the Lily of the West, then it's a wee bit older than Davies and Peterson, whoever they are.  There are a couple of earlier discussions on the song,  Lyr Req: The Lily of the West and  Flora Lily of the West which you may find useful.

Malcolm


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Subject: RE: Lily of the West -history of
From: Peg
Date: 07 Apr 00 - 10:26 AM

the version of this song I have heard (by Mairead ni Dhomnail) refers to her as MARY, Lily of the West (as in "and they called her lovely Mary, the Lily of the West")


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Subject: RE: Lily of the West -history of
From: MMario
Date: 07 Apr 00 - 10:36 AM

The name seems to change a lot....I've seen Flora, Mary, Molly, Moira, Mairi. I'm sure there are others...


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Subject: RE: Lily of the West -history of
From: Eluned
Date: 07 Apr 00 - 10:55 AM

If there is more than one song here, being confused with each other, a midi ought to settle the question. (I'll go check the archives.....).


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Subject: RE: Lily of the West -history of
From: Eluned
Date: 07 Apr 00 - 11:02 AM

Well, I found only the "Flora" version under "lily of the west"; perhaps if guest kingstreet cares to check it out, s/he can tell if it is the same song.......


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Subject: RE: Lily of the West -history of
From: MMario
Date: 07 Apr 00 - 11:06 AM

The Ballad Index basically shows "Flora, Lily of the West" as being the same as "Lily of the West". I think the multiplicity of various names used is much more recent.


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Subject: RE: Lily of the West -history of
From: richardw
Date: 07 Apr 00 - 11:16 AM

Tune is also used for Laqkes of Ponchatrain [sp?] and sometimes for Erin's Green Shore.

richard


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Subject: RE: Lily of the West -history of
From: GUEST,Mrrzy-at-work
Date: 07 Apr 00 - 11:49 AM

Interesting. The only one I ever heard sing it as Mary was the late and terribly lamented Ed McCurdy, may all blessings heap upon his line. All other versions I've heard as Flora. My favorite version is probably by Peter, Paul and Mary, on either In The Wind or Moving.

The Ed McCurdy one, though, dates back to the 40's, I think, and on the record cover there were historical notes. However, I don't have that album, Mom does, do I can't look it up for you. If any of you have that album, maybe you can chime in...


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Subject: RE: Lily of the West -history of
From: Kim C
Date: 07 Apr 00 - 11:53 AM

Again, this is one of those old tunes that has been passed around and rewritten countless times - The Folk Process At Work. I have heard it as Flora, as well as Molly; and "when first I came to Ireland," as well as "when first I came to Louisville." Apparently the melody goes back farther than 1839. I really love the version with Mark Knopfler & the Chieftains on the Long Black Veil album.


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Subject: RE: Lily of the West -history of
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 07 Apr 00 - 03:31 PM

It's Laws' P29, and he notes broadside versions, but not nearly as many as can be found on the Bodley Ballads website.


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Subject: RE: Lily of the West -history of
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 09 Apr 00 - 06:56 PM

Richard, Lakes of Pontchartrain is not the usual tune. Paddy Moloney tells how it came to be used on 'The Long Black Veil':
[1995:] Mark Knopfler [...] when he was recording 'The Lily of the West' used the air of 'The Lakes of Pontchartrain'. "He didn't so much use it as I suggested it. Perhaps the original tune is the minor version of 'Lily of the West'. I thought it would be a good song for him, and while we were doing it I happened to mention that it reminds me of this air 'The Lakes of Pontchartrain' which Paul Brady had done. I'd say the 'Pontchartrain' air came from the 'Lily of the West' which is hundreds of years old - even the English will claim 'The Lily of the West' as their own, but it's written in some of the old Irish books and the Colm O'Loughlin book as well as in old manuscripts [...]." (Paddy Moloney of The Chieftains, interviewed by John O'Regan, Rock 'n' Reel 21, p 36)


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Subject: RE: Lily of the West -history of
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Apr 00 - 07:49 PM

Colm O Lochlann has essentially the same verses as the DT in Irish Street Ballads (1939), and he calls the flirtatious lady "Molly O". And the tune he gives is a version of Star of the County Down. (And just to confuse us further, in the notes at the end he says "known from childhood as My Love Nell.)


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Subject: RE: Lily of the West -history of
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 09 Apr 00 - 07:55 PM

William Carleton's song "My Love Nell" was sung to "Gilderoy" which the Irish call "Star of the County Down".


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Subject: ADD Parody: Lily of the Net
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 11 Apr 00 - 12:19 PM

There is (by "somebody", which should be helpful) a parody, called "The Lily of the Net". Some sample lyrics:

When first I cruised the internet
Some pleasure there to find
A damsel there from AOL
Was pleasin' to my mind.

The narrator falls in love with Flora, visits her website, is stricken by the gorgeous photo there of the Lily of the Net, and arranges to meet her.

She is fat and sloppy, and only vaguely resembles the picture.

The picture was her daughter,
A twelve-year-old nymphette.
I was betrayed by Flora, the Lily of the Net!

A real hoot!

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Lily of the West -history of
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 11 Apr 00 - 11:05 PM

This is a great parody, by Holly Tannen. Itis in the DIgitrad


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Subject: RE: Lily of the West -history of
From: Stewie
Date: 12 Apr 00 - 03:34 AM

For yet another variation, in the version collected by Vance Randolph in Missouri in 1941, the young lady is called 'Florie'.

--Stewie.


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Subject: RE: Lily of the West -history of
From: open mike
Date: 07 Jun 18 - 12:30 PM

I have a vague memory some years ago of a Canadian songster travelling in this area who passed through....probably by bus... who had a version of Lily of the West she had written new words for..
Wish I could remember who she was.....I believe she returned to Canada and became a nurse....she played the fiddle...dear, me, my mind has slipped a cog.....does anyone recall this person, her name, or her mudcat nickname, or anything??!!


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