Eeeee! Flat breads are delicious!

Subject: Eeeee! Flat breads are delicious!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 11 Apr 00 - 08:15 PM

Hi, thanks again for the positions and feedback in the "F" and "Bb" threads. Several really good ideas in both of them.

F may be hard, Bb often avoided, but many think that Eb is the all-time great satan of chords. Here's a couple of suggestions.**

** By the way, if you've been dilligent and learned your Classical barre chords....don't rub it in! Some folks just DON'T have that index finger strength at the beginning. My tips are for them. Others very welcome.

Took me years to accidentally discover this one: Play a simple five string "C" chord, with your little finger on the first string 3rd fret.(like when you start "Freight Train). Move the whole position higher by 3 frets. (dont play bass string unless your alternating your ring finger). Presto! Eb! (Dylan has used this one in "Baby Let me Follow You down")

Harder, but a staple of both Merle Travis and Chet Atkins.

Barre 3 (only) high strings at 3rd Fret with index, put middle finger on 2nd string at 4th fret. Put ring finger on 4th string at 5th fret. Bring Thumb over to play 6th string at 3rd fret. With tip of thumb, damp out 5th string. Both Chet and Merle (and a few of my students) use this to get high melody notes on the 1st and 2nd strings with a moveable pinky. The G note on the bass is not ideal but does allow a liveable bass when you're playing blues or ragtime. Course this position can be used up and down the neck.

The third position is simply to barre 3 as before and then put down a C position (using pinky on 5th string). For some reason I hate this chord form and only use it under duress....just a lazy little finger I guess.

Rick

Subject: RE: Eeeee! Flat breads are delicious!
From: Mbo
Date: 11 Apr 00 - 09:13 PM

Thanks Rick, now this is the little bugger that gives me the probs!

--Mbo

Subject: RE: Eeeee! Flat breads are delicious!
From: GUEST, Threadie
Date: 11 Apr 00 - 09:20 PM

I've got a few suggestions Mwweebbs, and if you like, I can share them with you

Subject: RE: Eeeee! Flat breads are delicious!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 11 Apr 00 - 11:03 PM

I've got one other little trick Mbo, but it's another wierd approach (like the Bb6 in the other thread). Once again folks, let me emphasize there's no substitute for learning the standard fingerings that you can find in chord books. These are supplementary approaches that can allow you to play MELODIES plus a part of the chord when you're using a right hand syncopated bass. They're also useful in the chord-melody style of a Joe Pass or Eddie Lang thing.

Play a normal C chord. Now try and flatten the middle finger just enough to fret the third string at the 2nd fret. You've got C6. Move it up three frets...Eb6.

All these weirdo chords are tricky, but none is impossible. I learn 'em while watching baseball games!

Rick

Subject: RE: Eeeee! Flat breads are delicious!
From: ddw
Date: 11 Apr 00 - 11:17 PM

Rick — your first configuration for Eb is exactly what I described for Callie, who complained about it, in your Bb thread. And yes, Dylan did use it in Baby Let Me Follow You Down, but so did Blind Boy Fuller in Baby Let Me Lay It On You, which is where Dylan scabbed that tune. Funny, I was working on the BBF tune this afternoon just before I came to work.

david

Subject: RE: Eeeee! Flat breads are delicious!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 11 Apr 00 - 11:21 PM

Thanks David, sorry to cross chords with you. I'm just trying to absorb (steal) some of the info on those threads now.

Rick

Subject: RE: Eeeee! Flat breads are delicious!
From: ddw
Date: 11 Apr 00 - 11:35 PM

Hey, man — you don't have to steal anything. I'll give it away if I've got it — as far as music is concerned, anyway. The rest I'll try to hold onto for the time being.

:-) david

Subject: RE: Eeeee! Flat breads are delicious!
From: Mark Clark
Date: 12 Apr 00 - 02:02 AM

So Rick, let's see if I've got this right. The first chord you describe is this Eb and the second Eb is like this. I've seen Gary Davis use the second fingering a lot. He would play it as a D then slide it up a fret and form a thumbed G. On "You've Got To Move" he worked those two chords back and forth. I have a video tape of Merle Travis using that same Eb chord but he fingered it this way. Of course that only works if you don't need your little finger for anything else.

A natural (no pun intended) alternate for your third Eb is basically the same but the little finger notes the sixth string and damps the fifth like this.

Thanks again for these threads, it seems my interest in Mudcat is not diminished (pun intended).

- Mark

Subject: RE: Eeeee! Flat breads are delicious!
From: Mark Clark
Date: 12 Apr 00 - 02:24 AM

Oops! I seem to have made a slight miscalculation in the interpretation of the chord parameters. Evidently, chords should always begin at the first fret and the final fret parameter places the whole chord in its proper place. My previous post should have looked like this.

So Rick, let's see if I've got this right. The first chord you describe is this Eb and the second Eb is like this. I've seen Gary Davis use the second fingering a lot. He would play it as a D then slide it up a fret and form a thumbed G. On "You've Got To Move" he worked those two chords back and forth. I have a video tape of Merle Travis using that same Eb chord but he fingered it this way. Of course that only works if you don't need your little finger for anything else.

A natural (no pun intended) alternate for your third Eb is basically the same but the little finger notes the sixth string and damps the fifth like this.

Thanks again for these threads, it seems my interest in Mudcat is not diminished (pun intended).

- Mark

Subject: RE: Eeeee! Flat breads are delicious!
From: GUEST,Neil Lowe
Date: 12 Apr 00 - 07:51 AM

Well, dust my broom, Rick...your C to Eb chord trick is so obvious and simple it made me wonder, "why didn't I think of that?" At first I thought - wait, what about the open G string, then realized G natural is in the Eb chord....

I have often used the traditional C chord and moved it up two frets to get a "bastardized" D chord (I like the sound of the F# on the 4th string 4th fret and open G string being so close together..I guess technically this is a Dsus4?)...never occurred to me to move it up one more fret to get Eb...duh.

Gives me another way to play Eb. Always nice to have options. Thanks again.

Regards, Neil

Subject: RE: Eeeee! Flat breads are delicious!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 12 Apr 00 - 10:22 AM

Mark. I wish to hell I could do your diagrams...it's difficult to describe some of these things verbally (especially the stranger ones) but I'm still a "Little Neophyte" (apologies to Little Neophyte) when it comes to computereeze. Thanks.

Rick

Subject: RE: Eeeee! Flat breads are delicious!
From: Mark Clark
Date: 12 Apr 00 - 11:03 AM

Well, as you can see from the preceding posts, I'm really still learning how to do it myself. I think I have it pretty well worked out now.

They're pretty easy actually. I keep a text file on my Windows desktop that has most of the stuff all set up. I just copy the HTML with most of the URL from there and paste that into my post. Then all I need to do is add the parametric information.

I'm thinking I'll write a little tool that lets people point at fingers on a hand and frets on a fingerboard. The result would be to place the entire HTML string for the chord link on the users clipboard. Then all you'd need to do is hit Ctrl-V or select Edit/Paste from the menu and viola! [sic] there will be a chord clicky.

The only question is whether to write the tool as a stand-alone Windows program (I'm not set up for Mac development) that users would download and run, or whether to write it as a Java applet that Max could add to the forum Web page as a button. The later choice could provide the functinality for anyone with a Java enabled browser but it would need to fit in with Max's plans.

Do others have any thoughts on this?

- Mark

Subject: RE: Eeeee! Flat breads are delicious!
From: Night Owl
Date: 12 Apr 00 - 11:15 AM

Rick and Mark.....THANK YOU; THANK YOU; THANK YOU!!!!!! Not sure how anyone else feels about what you two are developing...but its exciting for me. The combination of explanations and the visual/audio WORKS. I feel you're both building us a solid bridge to get to the music and LEARN.

Subject: RE: Eeeee! Flat breads are delicious!
From: BlueJay
Date: 12 Apr 00 - 12:55 PM

I second that, NIGHT OWL! These new tools seem very exiting. Even though I don't understand them, the possibilities are obvious. Thanks so much Mark. And Rick, I'd always thought Eb was illegal. Used the four high string "D" formation, when the police weren't around. Thank You! BlueJay

Subject: RE: Eeeee! Flat breads are delicious!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 12 Apr 00 - 01:04 PM

Well, isn't that nice. Glad to be helpful. Got a couple more coming up, but I gotta work now.

Rick

Subject: RE: Eeeee! Flat breads are delicious!
From: Mark Clark
Date: 12 Apr 00 - 02:55 PM

Aw shucks (kicks dust with toe of boot), 'tweren't nothin'.

I'm trying to find easier ways for the average person to enter chords without needing to understand the Dictionary site's parameters or the construction of blue clicky things.

- Mark

Subject: RE: Eeeee! Flat breads are delicious!
From: Frank in the swamps
Date: 12 Apr 00 - 03:42 PM

"G" on the sixth string, 3rd finger, 3rd fret.

"Eb" on the 4th string, 1st finger, 1st fret.

"Bb" on the 3rd string, 4th finger, 3rd fret.

Or...

"Bb" on the 6th string, 2nd finger, 6th fret.

"G" on the 4th string, 1st finger, 5th fret.

"Eb" on the 4th string, 4th finger, 8th fret.

Frank i.t.s.

Subject: RE: Eeeee! Flat breads are delicious!
From: Mark Clark
Date: 08 Sep 01 - 07:50 PM

Geoff the Duck refreshed the Chord Diagram Primer thread so I thought I'd resurrect this one as well. I think this is where we first started playing with the chord links.

      - Mark