Bogart - Don't Bogart that joint.

Subject: RE: Bogart - Don't Bogart that joint.
From: GUEST,Azizi
Date: 21 Nov 12 - 07:45 AM

I want to support thosp's (17 April 00) and Guest's 20 Nov 12 - 07:51 AM comment about the meaning of "bogart" in the Northeastern region of the USA.

The meaning I knew for bogart in New Jersey in the 1960s was to try to take something that wasn't yours. That meaning came from Humphery Bogart's movie roles as a tough guy. "Bogart" btw was (is) pronounced "boh GARD" and I think that word is often spelled that way.

I read three pages of definitions of bogart which had been sent into urban dictionary.com before I found this meaning of that word as sent in by GK, December 29, 2007:

"The term 'Bogart' as it has been defined here only exemplifies part of the meaning. It has nothing to do specifically with 'hogging' a joint or smoking in general.

It is a VERB describing an act of boldness and fearlessness as was exhibited by Bogart in most of his film roles.

You Bogart your way into your boss' office when you don't care what the secretary says. You 'Bogart' your way into traffic when no one will let you into your lane and you 'Bogart' a joint when you could care less that anyone else is waiting for a hit.

This is the real origin of the term, "Don't Bogart that joint."

If you think you're just going to 'Bogart' me around like this, you are mistaken.
-snip-
There are at least 6 other pages for bogart meanings on urban dictionary.com but I stopped reading after finding that one.

I remember other African American teens saying "No bogarding allowed." when some other student tried to "gip" (move up some spaces in a school line.)

And yes, I now know that "gip" comes from insulting stereotypes about so-called "Gypsies". I don't use the word "gip" now, but I may still use "bogard" (bogart)if someone thought that he or she was tough enough to skip spaces in a store line - or a car line for gas as some people are facing now in parts of New York City or Northern New Jersey in the aftermath of hurricane Sandy.

Subject: RE: Bogart - Don't Bogart that joint.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Nov 12 - 12:10 AM

It's a movie very much of the time (late 60s), but I think it still makes for quite interesting viewing. Jack Nicholson's scenes are brilliant, and Dennis Hopper is totally convincing in his part. Fonda, on the other hand, seems more like a mythical figure of the time, though there were some people sort of like that back then.

People saw grass as a sort of sacrament. They were downright religious about it. And that could get pretty silly at times, but it sure provided a lot of social bonding for that generation.

Then there were the nuts on the other side who thought it was a deadly killer drug. They were even sillier than the potheads. The cigarettes and booze they took for granted were considerably more harmful (in my opinion) than the grass was. Most grass smokers engaged in all 3 substances, of course! The party never ends until you're puking in some toilet...or getting arrested by the cops....or until you grow up.

Subject: RE: Bogart - Don't Bogart that joint.
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 20 Nov 12 - 07:48 PM

Guest, George -- that was the original (and very, very low budget) "Little Shop of Horrors" -- Jack Nicholson played a dental patient who got off on pain -- and his masochistic dentist. Directed by Roger Corman. The script by Charles Griffith is absolutely brilliant.

"Easy Rider" was directed by Dennis Hopper (and produced by Peter Fonda). Written by Hopper, Fonda and Terry Southern.

Linn

Subject: RE: Bogart
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Nov 12 - 11:24 AM

The whole dope-smoking culture always seemed idiotic to me, though I was in the midst of it and all my friends partook of grass and/or hash on a pretty regular basis back in the late 60's and the 70's. But then, they all smoked cigarettes too, and I didn't. To tell the truth, I minded the cigarettes a lot more than I did the dope. Cigarettes make everything stink...and people smoke the damn things all day long.

I am glad I've lived to see a day when people aren't allowed to smoke them inside stores, restaurants, etc. About time!

It's interesting, though, what great visual props the cigarettes and the whole smoking ritual made for people like Bogart and Bacall in the movies back in the 40s. They were the coolest of cool at the time.

Too bad the damned things smell so bad and hurt your health.

Subject: RE: Bogart
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Nov 12 - 07:51 AM

In the early '70s in Northeastern US., to "Bogart" meant to hold onto. The get the joint wet was called something entirely different.

Subject: RE: Bogart
From: Mr Happy
Date: 17 Nov 12 - 04:20 PM

Don't bogart me [The Fraternity of Man, 1968]

Don't bogart that joint, my friend
Pass it over to me
Don't bogart that joint, my friend
Pass it over to me

Roll another one
Just like the other one
You've been hangin on to it
And I sure would like a hit

Don't bogart that joint, my friend
Pass it over to me
Don't bogart that joint, my friend
Pass it over to me

Rolllllllllllllllll another one
Just like the other one
That one's just about burned to the end
So come on and be a real friend

Don't bogart that joint, my friend
Pass it over to me
Don't bogart that joint, my friend
Pass it over to me

Everybody sing along this time

Don't bogart that joint, my friend
Pass it over to me
Don't bogart that joint, my friend
Pass it over to me


***********

Doesn't seem to be a rendition by the original band on Ytube, but here's a good cover: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvGJvzwKqg0

Subject: RE: Bogart
From: Amos
Date: 03 Mar 01 - 09:02 AM

Why, Joe? Is Catspaw making big scores, these days, or just drooling a lot?

A

Subject: RE: Bogart
From: Fiolar
Date: 03 Mar 01 - 04:57 AM

To Guest Ade - Try getting hold of The Cassell Dictionary of Slang. Any good bookshop should be able to get it for you. The explanation re Bogart you sought is in there as are thousands of others.

Subject: RE: Bogart
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Mar 01 - 04:13 AM

I think we should refresh this thread, in honor of Catspaw...

Subject: RE: Bogart
From: Willie-O
Date: 18 Apr 00 - 08:53 AM

Yes, folks, how can we say such disgusting things?

Shotgun, anyone? (g)

The real early Jack Nicholson appearance referred to above was actually a scene in the original Little Shop of Horrors, wasn't it?

The comments about Billy and Captain America (yecccch!) as cultural icons are well taken...Easy Rider really was a capital-A American interpretation, not so much of the counter-culture I would argue, but of how to portray the standard American hero in the Vietnam & after era--and that hero has always been a mercenary, whether Bogey, Rhett, or John Wayne. In retrospect, they don't look that great, about on a par with Superfly.

But what is enduring about that movie I'd say, is the cinematography (the classic Western part anyway) and that it broke Jack Nicholson into the prominence he deserved. It also started the typecasting of Dennis Hopper, nearly as talented an actor as Nicholson, as an increasingly grizzled and villainous dope-dealer, a part he continues to get these days. Too bad really.

Willie-O

Subject: RE: Bogart
From: AndyG
Date: 18 Apr 00 - 08:10 AM

Humphrey Bogart received facial injuries whilst serving as a USN military policeman, or so I read in a biography. I forget the details, however these injuries resulted in his "dribbling" over the end of a cigarette. (I think his upper lip was split below the nose.) When, later, he was involved in movies, he hid this by cupping the cigarette in his hand.

I don't know the meaning of Bogart as used in the song, but I've always assumed it referred to the dribbling, not to refusing to pass the joint along.

AndyG

Subject: RE: Bogart
From: GUEST, George
Date: 17 Apr 00 - 10:05 PM

What was the name of that short film by the director of Easy Rider (forget his name), which had Jack Nicholson as a patient in a dentist's surgery who refused any type of anæsthetic. It was a scream!!

I think it was all part of that series of films made by the UCLA crowd. Remember 'The Trip'?

Subject: RE: Bogart
From: Jim the Bart
Date: 17 Apr 00 - 08:53 PM

The song - by the Holy Modal Rounders - I believe, exists fondly in the memories of any of us who were lucky enough to have seen the movie when it was brand new. If your hair was long, it scared the sh*t out of you.

Isn't it amazing that two of the cultural icons that we have to represent the revolution in Easy Rider - Billy and Captain America - are a couple of guys whose idea of a good time is to score big on a drug deal, head out to New Orleans and get loaded with some hookers?

But those were the contradictions of the times

Subject: RE: Bogart
From: thosp
Date: 17 Apr 00 - 07:02 PM

actually in New York the slang term (the earliest i am aware of it is the early 70's)BOGARD - is to keep to oneself or to take from another by force --- it was common to use it in pickup games of basketball at city parks(that's where i first heard it)but i frequently heard neighborhood kids use the word, in the same meaning ,in relation to many things-- ---

<peace (Y) thosp

Subject: RE: Bogart
From: Amos
Date: 17 Apr 00 - 03:18 PM

Being that those who used the word were not given to precise language it is possible that both Art and those who diagree with him are right -- the word may have meant one thing originally and come to mean the other as it passed rapidly from dorm room to dorm room! I just know what it meant when I learned it. Folk smokery at work.

Subject: RE: Bogart
From: Peter T.
Date: 17 Apr 00 - 03:08 PM

Fascinating. It reminds me of a story I read of a director in 1980 trying to reconstruct what posters would have hung in a college dorm in 1968. Half the camera crew had been in such a dorm, and they almost came to fisticuffs disagreeing about what was historically accurate -- 12 years later! I was always told that "bogarting" ("told", of course, not that I would have ever invited Miss Lewinsky into my office) was holding the joint in your cupped hand as they do in the movies, and letting it slowly burn, not passing it on. yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Bogart
From: Easy Rider
Date: 17 Apr 00 - 02:49 PM

Gary is right. "Bogarting" is just hanging onto it, instead of passing it around. All the rest of this discussion is just plain DISGUSTING. How can you people say such things?

I saw "Easy Rider" in 1969, when it was shocking to the general public, but, now, seeing it on video, it seems pretty tame and dated.

Subject: RE: Bogart
From: Gary T
Date: 17 Apr 00 - 01:01 AM

I always understood "Bogart" to mean letting it hang from the lip while not actually smoking it (i.e., in between puffs), which is exactly what Humphrey Bogart did in the movies. This is different from getting the end all wet. In fact, if it gets too wet, it won't stick to the lip a la Bogart. The sin of Bogarting, as indicated by the song's lyrics, is depriving others of the opportunity to get a puff while one is in possession of the smoke but not using it at the time. It's true that one can hang onto it in his lips in such a way as to saturate it. I would call that slobbering rather than Bogarting.

Subject: RE: Bogart
From: Willie-O
Date: 16 Apr 00 - 11:39 AM

Hey, I don't want to shock anybody, but it used to be good form and part of the ritual to take the joint, stick it into your mouth lit end first, and lick the unburned paper all over so the paper would burn slower and more evenly, allowing more complete combustion of the green stuff...then pass it on.

Of course, you probably either know that already or didn't want to hear it in the first place...

W-O

Subject: RE: Bogart
From: Amos
Date: 15 Apr 00 - 02:37 PM

Spot on, Art. It's considered poor form, when sharing a bomb, reefer, joint or other synonym, to make the end wet. But as with many courtesies established in subcultures, there's always some joik who just won't learn. At least...that's the way it was back in 1965. Wouldn't know about since then...ah...um.

A.

Subject: RE: Bogart
From: catspaw49
Date: 15 Apr 00 - 10:28 AM

Yeah Art is right.....but I LOVE that "moutherly" direction.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Bogart
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 15 Apr 00 - 10:16 AM

"to Bogart" meant to saturate the moutherly half of the cigar or cigarette with copious quantities of spittle.

Easy Rider is still one of my favorite movies. An accurate portrayal of an era in which left leaning folks were harrassed mercilessly by renecks, the government etc. (Viet Nam) These days, it's the rednecks who feel they need to mobilize against the government.

Thankfully, since the kids started wearing their baseball caps backwards, there are a ton fewer rednecks.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Bogart
From: Wavestar
Date: 15 Apr 00 - 09:58 AM

There is another context in which to bogart something is the same as to absquatulate with it... to make off with it. Unfortunately I haven't seen the film, so I can't tell you if this is appropriate.

-J

Subject: RE: Bogart
From: Gern
Date: 15 Apr 00 - 09:40 AM

Bogart used to allow cigarettes to hang from his lips for an extended period of time in his movies--something considered anti-social in joint-smoking circles.

Subject: RE: Bogart
From: Alice
Date: 15 Apr 00 - 09:30 AM

ade, it means

"don't hang onto that joint, pass it over to me"

Subject: RE: Bogart
From: Billy the Bus
Date: 15 Apr 00 - 06:52 AM

I'm from the other side of the world, and never saw "Easy Rider" (well I've seen a few snippets - and seen a few references on HUG sites), but.....

I'm from the era.....

'Don't Bogart that joint my friend' .....

Would have to be a reference to one of the "Hump-free" Bogart films, would it not?

Just a thort.....

Sam

Subject: Bogart
From: GUEST,ade
Date: 15 Apr 00 - 06:37 AM

The film Easy Rider has just been re-shown in the UK and I felt moved to get the CD - my old vinyl copy wore out ages ago. Listening to it again, the song 'Don't Bogart that joint my friend' reminded me that I never did find out what 'Bogart' means in this context. Where does the word come from -it's certainly not in my UK dictionary. Any takers?