What song has the most versions?

Subject: What song has the most versions?
From: GUEST,Mrrzy-at-work
Date: 17 Apr 00 - 03:56 PM

Hi, I am the kind of un-original singer who likes to sing songs the way I heard them. So there are several songs of which I "do" multiple / various versions. It occurred to me the other day that I know at least 5 versions of Soldier Soldier Will You Marry Me (Belafonte, Country Gentleman, Clancy Brothers and Tommy Makem, Plantxy, Pentangle), all of which have the main theme of young couple out somewhere, often in May, he's a soldier, they dally, she asks when they'll marry and he says he already has a wife. My favorite has as a final line "2 wives and the Army's too many for me" - as if he could handle being a bigamist, just not a bigamist AND a soldier. Anyway, I was wondering what songs y'all knew had at least 5 versions, preferably more? And do most of you just do an original take or kind of amalgamate, or do you pick someone's version to perform, usually?

Subject: RE: BS: What song has the most versions?
From: MMario
Date: 17 Apr 00 - 04:22 PM

"what do you do with a drunken sailor" - probably has more versions then anyone can count! and more every day...

I, myself, usually take the versions of a song that I have heard, throw them all together in a blender and pull out the mixture, beat it on a rock, then store it someplace dark until it grows mold. The result I then sing. It may not resemble the original very much, but sometimes it does.

Or sometimes I sing what I've heard. that usually doesn't resemble the original at all.

Or I take the lyrics from so-and-so's version, put them to the tune of whasshisname's, and sing it at the tempo "they" used.

it depends on the song.

I also sing a lot of songs solo - and by the time I sing them to ANYONE i have usually graven them into my memory tracks so deeply it is hard for me to change. If I need to change the way I sing it, I basically have to learn it as a new song.

Subject: RE: BS: What song has the most versions?
From: GUEST,Mrr
Date: 17 Apr 00 - 04:31 PM

Me too, Mmario; I "store" them as separate songs - which is why often when I ask does anyone know X, and I'm told it's in the DB, I often come back with Yes but...does anyone know it the way I'm looking for it? Which brings me to the question, how many versions do we want in our DB - all the ones ever known or just one to get you going?

Subject: RE: BS: What song has the most versions?
From: sophocleese
Date: 17 Apr 00 - 04:31 PM

I have three versions of Two Sisters. They all have a different tune and a different ending. With other songs, with more similarity between versions I like to mix variations until I come up with a single song I like. I mostly listen to the tune rather than the words when I first hear a song so I don't learn it unless I like the tune then I grab verses and lines from other versions with tunes I'm not so fond of and add them to the one tune I really like.

Subject: RE: BS: What song has the most versions?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 17 Apr 00 - 04:46 PM

Cheap shot, but--

Happy Birthday!

Sorry, lurking criticizers, can't resist them all, not perfect yet!

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: What song has the most versions?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 17 Apr 00 - 04:57 PM

My songs are often a mixture of several versions that I have learned together whith changes which sort of evolve because of my own bad memory. I think this is called the folk process or part of it!

With regards to the song mentioned in the first post. I can think of 3 of them at the moment, Soldier Soldier, The Gentleman Soldier and The Nightingale Sing that fit the description. Although they do tell the same tale, I consider them to be different songs and would have a version of each of them.

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: What song has the most versions?
From: Sorcha
Date: 17 Apr 00 - 05:06 PM

Most of the Child Ballads, and do tunes count? I stopped collecting variants of Turkey in the Straw when I hit 20!

Subject: RE: BS: What song has the most versions?
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 17 Apr 00 - 09:54 PM

I've heard folklorists point out that more than ninety versions of Barbara Allen have been collected in the state of Virginia alone. Check that out, and then see how many versions are included in the Brown collection of North Carolina Folklore. Then look through all the other state and regional collections that have been published (Randolph, Belden, Brewster, Smith, Morris, Thomas, etc, etc.) Anyone have their copy of Bronson's The Traditional Tunes of the Child Ballads handy? How many Barbara Allens did he choose to include in his great compendium?

By the way, there's a neat version of "Soldier, Soldier, Will You Marry Me" that ends (after she has brought him a new coat, new shirt, new trousers, new boots, etc.) "How can I marry such an ugly girl as you, and me with all these fine clothes on?" It's on my The Traditional Music of Beech Mountain, North Carolina, recordings, sung by Lena Armstrong and Etta Jones, sisters. I recorded them in Poteau, Oklahoma, but they were from "the Beech."

Sandy

Subject: RE: BS: What song has the most versions?
From: Giac
Date: 17 Apr 00 - 10:36 PM

In Chicago in the 1960s was a man of Greek extraction who was doing what he referred to as a scholarly work on "John Henry." He claimed to have more than 200 versions. Have no idea if the "work" ever made it to publication. His last name was Oikonomedes. He was in publishing at that time, so at the least it may have been a vanity printing. Sorry I can't substantiate it, had forgotten it completely until this thread.

Giac

Subject: RE: BS: What song has the most versions?
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 17 Apr 00 - 10:53 PM

I should have mentioned that Joe Hickerson has gathered over 400 versions of "Our Goodman" or "Five Nights Drunk." That ballad was the subject of his dissertation, which he never finished. Maybe now that he's retired, he'll get around to that.

Sandy

Subject: RE: BS: What song has the most versions?
From: Kelida
Date: 17 Apr 00 - 10:59 PM

Black Velvet Band (7)

Johnny I Hardly Knew Ye (infinite versions/variations of this)

Sweet Violets (another with infinite versions--plenty of room for improvision)

Maids When You're Young Never Wed an Old Man (at least 3 versions)

Foggy Dew (I think there may be 2 songs with this title, but it seems that each has about 3 variations)

Peace--Keli

Subject: RE: BS: What song has the most versions?
From: GUEST,Mrr
Date: 18 Apr 00 - 10:02 AM

This is fun! About Foggy Dew, the two really distinct songs I know with that title have to do with the bachelor who kept her from the foggy foggy dew, and the Easter Irish Uprising of 1916 (while Britannia's sons with their long-range guns sailed in from the foggy dew) - I consider those to be 2 separate songs. And I just love the alternate ending for Soldier Soldier, Sandy! Reminds me of hearing a band called the Ragamuffins play the Wild Rover in Dublin once, where they ended the No Nay Never part with "and I never will play when I'm sober no more!"

Subject: RE: BS: What song has the most versions?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 18 Apr 00 - 10:10 AM

Re Foggy Dew, have a search in DT, you will find several versions. The 1916 rising song, uses the tune of an earlier "Foggy Dew".

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: What song has the most versions?
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Apr 00 - 10:37 AM

I was feeling good about having a good answer that hadn't been given in "Barbara Allen" til I got to Sandy's post. Day late and a dollar short again......but I'll throw in my vote for the old girl anyway.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: What song has the most versions?
From: Llanfair
Date: 18 Apr 00 - 11:03 AM

Let's see, now, there's "When I was on Horseback-young soldier-young sailor-young cowboy cut down in his prime.
Prickerly Bush-3 versions.
Marrowbones varies quite a lot.
That's all that springs to mind just now. More later, probably.
Hwyl, Bron.

Subject: RE: BS: What song has the most versions?
From:
Date: 18 Apr 00 - 11:10 AM

Those five versions of Soldier, Soldier, Are they in the Forum? I can only see one in the Database.

I would think Barbara Allen would most likely be the main contender for most variants.

BTW, when you say variants, are you referring to BOTH tune variants and lyric variants?

Subject: RE: BS: What song has the most versions?
From: Hyperabid
Date: 18 Apr 00 - 11:15 AM

Eric Bogle - No Man's Land - (Umpteen)

See also Should or Shouldn't it be covered

Regards

Hyp

Subject: RE: BS: What song has the most versions?
From: Amos
Date: 18 Apr 00 - 11:19 AM

I have always known the "bachelor" Dew song as "The Foggy, Foggy Dew", as distinguished from the "marching men" song called "The Foggy Dew". As for "most variants", both in tale, words and tune, I guess I would have to go for Barbara Ellen, wotting not what competitors there really might be out there...

Funny how the crossovers work -- different tunes telling the same tale, different words to the same tune, different tales in similar words but different tunes...I guess that's partof the magical mixture that makes phoakies unqualified for serious work! (:>)))

Subject: RE: BS: What song has the most versions?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 18 Apr 00 - 11:31 AM

Being silly, how about Happy Birthday?

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: What song has the most versions?
From: Hyperabid
Date: 18 Apr 00 - 11:40 AM

Happy Birthday to you Squashed tomatoes and stew Bread and Butter in the gutter Happy Birthday to you

Hippo Birdy 2 Ewes Hippo Birdy 2 Ewes Have a grunt anniversary Hippo Birday 2 Ewes

Just two from schooldays.

Hyp

Subject: RE: BS: What song has the most versions?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Apr 00 - 02:39 PM

Well, the database has nine versions of "Golden Vanity, Child #286 - maybe more, if I'd look a little harder.
I was surprised to find only one version of THE HANDSOME CABIN BOY in the database.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: What song has the most versions?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 18 Apr 00 - 03:28 PM

Hyperabid, from shooldays, we also had. Happy Birthday to you, I went to the Zoo, I saw a big gorrila and it looked just like you.

I went to priamary shool in Wales and it was custormary in my school to sing the song twice, once in English and then in Welsh so we also had Penblwydd Hapus i chi.

Jon

(who hated Welsh at school but wishes he could speak it now)

Subject: RE: BS: What song has the most versions?
From: Jeri
Date: 18 Apr 00 - 05:09 PM

Joe, I'll see your 9 Golden Vanities and raise you 7, for 16 versions of Gypsy Davey, Child #200, in the database. I think Joe Hickerson has everyone beat with 400 though.

Subject: RE: BS: What song has the most versions?
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 18 Apr 00 - 05:44 PM

Now if he'll just write that damned dissertation! My mother's version is among the others he has gathered, and I'd love to be able to prove that I'm a real folksinger with an authentic family tradition!

Sandy

Subject: RE: BS: What song has the most versions?
From: Amergin
Date: 18 Apr 00 - 07:06 PM

Doesn't This Land is Your Land have over a hundred and fifty verses and growing?

Subject: RE: BS: What song has the most versions?
From: Jeri
Date: 18 Apr 00 - 07:23 PM

While pondering the difference between different versions of a song, and the same song with add-on or plug-in verses, I found myself wondering how different a song has to be from another to be considered a different version. Are there "official" criteria?

Subject: RE: BS: What song has the most versions?
From: GUEST,Timbrel
Date: 18 Apr 00 - 09:08 PM

How 'bout "The House Carpenter", which I never recognized as a title, but when I heard the melody, I heard it EVERYWHERE. It's a "Demon-Lover" theme song with at least 10 variants, and I think it may also be in Child.

Subject: RE: BS: What song has the most versions?
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 18 Apr 00 - 09:22 PM

Type Child #243 in the DT box up yonder, and you'll find three versions of "The House Carpenter" real quick.

Sandy

Subject: RE: BS: What song has the most versions?
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 19 Apr 00 - 07:50 AM

My latest multiple version project was cobbling together a version that told the complete story and made sense out of "The Shearin's No For You", "Will Ye Gang tae Kelvingrove?", "Kelvingrove" (which is different) and "Bonny Lassie-O" (the after marriage verses). Even Jean Redpath starts out with "Shearin'" verses and throws in some "Bonny Lassie-O" verses. The Tannahill Weavers stick to the "Shearin'" verses, but leave out some that I got from "Kelvingrove" thanks to Dick Gaughan.

I'm left with some perfectly good "Bonny Lassie-O" verses that just don't fit in with the others and really shouldn't be sung at the same time. Guess I'll have to keep them tacked onto the end of "What's Poor Mary Weeping For" like the Fisher Family did.

Linn, the Bat Goddess

Subject: RE: BS: What song has the most versions?
From: Skivee
Date: 19 Apr 00 - 11:20 AM

She's been mentioned before, but I must note that our girl Barbara Allen really gets around. More than 1000 version on record. I recently saw an LP at the Library of Congress Achives of Folk Culture with 25 versions. Most versions are slight changes of location. The Gypsey Davey also comes to mind. 100's of variants Gypsey Davey songs Gyspey Rover Songs Blackjack Davey songs I wonder if he's related to Barbara?

Subject: RE: BS: What song has the most versions?
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 20 Apr 00 - 12:01 AM

Our favorite Barbara Allen is from Kidson's Traditional Tunes and has the event occur in the autumn:

It was in and about the Martinmas time,
When the green leaves they were falling... (etc)

Sets a properly somber landscape for the ballad, eh?

Sandy

Subject: RE: BS: What song has the most versions?
From: Crowhugger
Date: 20 Apr 00 - 12:11 AM

My vote is definitely for O Canada. Every child who sings what they hear has a different version, generally delightful nonsense songs. Like M'air Zee Dotes. ;-)

Patriotically yours, CH

Subject: RE: BS: What song has the most versions?
From: Gypsy
Date: 20 Apr 00 - 12:14 AM

Well, Mr. Bronson shows about 20 variants of Miz Allen, and i've seen more beyond that. Howzabout the prolific Ranzo Ray? And i show at least 10 versions of The House Carpenter/The Daemon lover.

Subject: RE: BS: What song has the most versions?
From: mjm
Date: 20 Apr 00 - 04:17 PM

Amazing Grace is right up there, I'm sure. m

Subject: RE: BS: What song has the most versions?
From: Nathan in Texas
Date: 20 Apr 00 - 11:09 PM

David Highland has compiled 150 verses from 25 different versions of "Froggie Went A Courting." You can explore them at http://www.concentric.net/~Highl14/froggy.html

Subject: RE: BS: What song has the most versions?
From: GUEST,Gary Martin
Date: 21 Apr 00 - 03:35 PM

Sandy Paton said: "Our favorite Barbara Allen is from Kidson's Traditional Tunes and has the event occur in the autumn:

It was in and about the Martinmas time, When the green leaves they were falling... (etc)

Sets a properly somber landscape for the ballad, eh?"

That IS somber when the leaves don't even change color before falling.