Help: Fine Flowers in the Valley-pronunciatio

Subject: Fine Flowers in the Valley-pronunciation
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Apr 00 - 06:41 PM

This a beautiful song I found on Barry Finn's site, here.

I want to sing it in song circle, tonight, so I'll figure out some kind of *bonus* for whomever can get me these answers first!**BG**

What is the proper, phonetic pronunciation of the word "howket" in the fourth verse, which is this:

She howket a grave by the light..."

Does it mean, she "hacked out" and is it pronounced the way it looks?

Also, in the previous verse, after she took out her "litle penknife", it says she "twinned" the sweet babe o' its life". Is this pronounced with a short or long "i" and, although I know it means she took its life, what is the meaning of twinned, exactly?

One more, I think I've been doing right for years, but would like to verify it: when any of the Scottish songs ahve words such as "sae" for "so" and "nae" for "no", is it correct to pronounce them as "say" and "nay" or is it "sigh" and "nigh"?

Thanks!

kat

Subject: RE: Help: Fine Flowers in the Valley-pronunciatio
From: Kelida
Date: 23 Apr 00 - 08:08 PM

houket=how-ket

sae=say

nae=nay

Other than that, I don't know.

Peace--Keli

Subject: RE: Help: Fine Flowers in the Valley-pronunciatio
From: GUEST,Murray on Saltspring
Date: 23 Apr 00 - 08:26 PM

That only leaves "twinned", which I spell with one "i" and pronounce to rhyme with "lined", but it can also have two, and so pronounced to rhyme with "sinned". Old Scots twyne (etc) from Middle English twinnen, to separate. Good luck with the song--hope this isn't too late for you.

Subject: RE: Help: Fine Flowers in the Valley-pronunciatio
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Apr 00 - 10:25 PM

THANKS! Keli and Murray!

It could be a typo in the twinned. I thought twyned would sound better. And, no, it is not too late. Why don't you two join us? Just look for the HearMe thread. There is a text chat, if you don't havea a mic or at shy about sining/playing.

Thanks a bunch!

kat

Subject: RE: Help: Fine Flowers in the Valley-pronunciatio
From: TerriM
Date: 24 Apr 00 - 01:10 PM

Kat, thank you so much, I've been looking for the lyrics to this for ages!

Subject: RE: Help: Fine Flowers in the Valley-pronunciatio
From: katlaughing
Date: 24 Apr 00 - 04:24 PM

You're welcome, TerriM, it's really a neat song/tune and Barry's site is, too!

Subject: RE: Help: Fine Flowers in the Valley-pronunciatio
From: GUEST,Angun
Date: 02 May 00 - 05:18 PM

Anyone knows something more about this song? Where it`s from, story.......

Angun

Subject: RE: Help: Fine Flowers in the Valley-pronunciatio
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 02 May 00 - 05:52 PM

kat, don't you mean Barry Taylor? Do I get a bonus for this? Also, what time will you sing? I'm having all kinds of mic and midi problems...trying to download something for the new Quicktime now.

Mary

Subject: RE: Help: Fine Flowers in the Valley-pronunciatio
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 02 May 00 - 06:13 PM

It's a version of the 'Cruel Mother' ballad, Child #20. This particular version seems to have been collected by Burns and published in Johnson's Scots Musical Museum (1796) (from the sleevenotes of 'Fine Flowers and Foolish Glances' by Mick West, who does a haunting version of it.)

Subject: RE: Help: Fine Flowers in the Valley-pronunciatio
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 May 00 - 07:29 PM

Yes, MaryinK, I goofed! Thanks for the correction! It is from Barry Taylor's site. As it is, I didn't sing it that night, as I dind't know it well enough. I don't know if anyone is going into HearMr tonight or not. I think Billy the Bus was going to try, juts wtach for a HearMe NOW thread.

Thanks, Susanne, good to know a bit more.

kat

Subject: RE: Help: Fine Flowers in the Valley-pronunciatio
From: Ringer
Date: 03 May 00 - 01:43 PM

See also The Lowlands of Holland (in the DT) for another song containing "twined":

And the lowlands of Holland have twined my love and me