The gun debate. IN SONG.

Subject: Lyr Add: I AM YOUR GUN (Jethro Tull)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 22 Mar 05 - 03:49 PM

I AM YOUR GUN
As recorded by Jethro Tull on "Broadsword and the Beast" (1982)

Blew my smoke on a sunny day,
when the first black powder came my way.
Hot lead ball from a muzzle cold
to win fair lady and take your gold.

I know it hardly seems the time (I am your gun)
to talk of blue steel so sublime. (I am your gun)
I can understand your point of view. (I am your gun)
To tell the truth I'd scare me too.

Match, wheel and flintlock, they all caught your eye.
Pearl-handled ladies' models, scaled down to size.
I am the peacemaker, so the theory goes.
But I don't choose the company I keep and it shows.

I am your gun.
Love me, I'm your gun.

Maxim and Browning, they helped me along.
Stoner, Kalashnikov thrilled to my song.
Now one of me exists, for each one of you,
So how can you blame me for the things that I do?

Now I take second place to the motor car(I am your gun)
in the score of killing kept thus far. (I am your gun)
And just remember, if you don't mind (I am your gun)
it's not the gun that kills but the man behind.

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: Frankham
Date: 22 Mar 05 - 03:40 PM

"I'll get even for what they put me through.
They think they're tough and full of fight,
But I really know just what to do.
I can't wait to get 'em in my sight."

He broke the locks on his daddy's door,
And pulled the trophy from it's case.
He had never ever done that before
Tho' he planned the job, and the time and place.

"It's so easy", he thought, "At last
I can beat those bastards at their games.
I can just pull this trigger fast
And watch 'em all go down in flames."

Scattered about as the morning sunned
The little kids, who, on the schoolground lay,
While the lone attacker scared and stunned
Offered his soul to the NRA.

Frank

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Mar 05 - 03:12 AM

Refresh

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Aug 04 - 03:33 PM

Some horrific act occurs--a violent criminal steals a firearm and goes on a killing spree, terrorists kill scores of innocents, a drunk drives his car into a crowd, a wild animal kills a jogger, etc., etc--and the bleeding hearts cry, "There ought to be a law...." We now have so many laws that a whole industry thrives trying to interpret (and circumvent) them, and none of these laws have the slightest effect on those who would do wrong. (Did anyone ever stop to think that, by definition, criminals are those who make their living breaking laws and that only those who are honest feel bound by laws. Hey! We have laws against, murder, kidnapping, and rape, and they occur with alarming regularity.)


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An actor puts a .44 magnum loaded with blanks in his ear and pulls the trigger and his estate sues the gun manufacturer. A man gets drunk and drives his $50,000 sports car into a bridge at 100 mph and his estate sues the beverage manufacturer and the car manufacturer. A woman puts a hot cup of coffee between her thighs and drives off in her car burning herself and she sues the restaurant chain. A jogger, alone and unarmed, in a wilderness area is attacked by a wild animal and she sues the state government. There are even warnings on computer keyboards now warning of risk of injury by using them!

Now products ranging from airplanes to plastic bags now carry warnings that you risk death and dismemberment (or worse) if you do something incredibly stupid with them. Cups of hot coffee now all carry warnings "Warning! Contents Hot." Duh? Plastic wrap and bags carry warnings not to put over your face. Sets of kitchen knives have "Danger! Sharp!" warnings advising the user not to put fingers under them.

It use to be that people actually had enough brains to know that firearms, knives, hammers, drills, automobiles, hot things, chemicals, and wild animals could do you serious injury if mishandled. If they did something stupid they owned up to it, accepted the consequences, and didn't try to blame others for their stupidity.

Lawyers are getting rich suing companies because someone used a product in a stupid manner and got hurt.

Maybe there ought to be a law! A law simply banning S T U P I D I T Y !
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Then there is the trend for the government to protect us from firearms by passing laws. Firearms are banned because the "look" evil" or have such things as flash hiders, vertical grips, or bayonet lugs. Bayonet lugs? When was the last time you heard of a 7-11 being held up at bayonet point? In some jurisdictions simply changing the configuration of the wood stock makes you a felon. Large capacity magazines? I feel so much safer since new magazines over 10 round capacity were banned. Consider this. Someone is pointing a pistol with a magazine capacity of 15 rounds at you. Then they remove 5 rounds from the magazine and point the pistol at you. There, don't you feel safer? As for sustained fire, with a modicum of training a person can learn to swap magazines in about 1 second.


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Now the new trend is to make even minor or non violent offenses a felony or to treat them as a felony, and thus proscribe the person from ever owning a firearm. States like NJ are violating ex post facto and passing laws that are retro-active, turning otherwise honest citizens into felons who then have their doors kicked in to "protect" the public. The government is not interested in public safety and order. Even if everyone lived by the Golden Rule the government would still find ways to make that a crime so that they could lord their power over the citizens and make the government employees superior to the ordinary people.


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How about concealed weapons permit holders. Folks with CCW permits undergo a tighter background check in many cases than law enforcement folks, yet they can't carry in many places--because they can't be trusted.


---------------------------------------------------------------------

Of course there is always the issue of political correctness. You can actually be arrested and jailed in many places because you utter something about another person or their life style that someone with too much time on their hands overhears. Meanwhile the utter lack of morals, self control, and honesty among members of the government is "OK."


---------------------------------------------------------------------

Another thing that really gets me is the shallowness of many "friendships" and number of people with the "what's in it for me attitude." They may claim to be a friend but the first time you find yourself in tough times or in need they are conveniently no where to be found. Or, if it suits the occasion or they need to look good, they can speak ill of you to others yet smile to your face if you have what they want or need. I have experienced this enough times and have had others speak of it that I truly believe that honesty, integrity, morals are dying in our civilization
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Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 31 Aug 04 - 02:47 PM

"They also, with permission from Cheryl, "gave away" the song. It could be downloaded in its entirety from several web sites."

Anyone got a URL for such a download please?????

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 04:15 PM

Russian Roulette, maybe that's the answer.

If one in a hundred bullets were made
to explode when the trigger was squeezed
pehaps people would hesitate
and the shootouts might be decreased.

Or one in ten...or one in one
The same way it was with the Atom Bomb.

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: FriendOfFrancis
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 02:38 PM

Be the first one on your block
    To get your kid sent home in a box.


          My dad is a hard-core right-wing Republican NRA Lifetime Member. We don't see eye to eye on much. My opinion is that when the above lyric was written, the problem of seeing people get blown away in cold blood was from 'the enemy' in a war, or at least in the poorest and most desperate of ghettoes somewhere. Nowadays, the threat is as real and immediate in my little tiny suburban enclave as it is in any war zone.

The answer is education and giving our future generations the chance to learn to be something besides angry and frustrated.

So here's my verse, bad as it may be:

I hear the talk from everyone
About the subject of the gun.
Some say they're meant for every hand,
Some say they're poison in the land.
I say it's nothing but a tool;
Unless the shooter is a fool.
Give the lawless ones a job
So they can work instead of rob
so they can help feed starving kids
instead of closing coffin lids.
If folks learn truth instead of crud,
they won't resort to shedding blood.

    I am no poet, and this topic is definitely not my forte, but I tried.

FoF+

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 06:23 PM

I GO OUT A WALKING WITH MY DOG AND GUN

TRADITIONAL IRISH -SONG ?

FIDDLE-4

Subject: Lyr Add: IF IT WERE UP TO ME (Cheryl Wheeler)
From: open mike
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 05:14 PM

If It Were Up to Me

This song was written after the Jonesboro schoolyard shooting incident. She actually didn't realize she was writing it at the time. She was talking to herself while she was driving and suddenly realized that it was a song.
I find this song very powerful. Experts can (and probably will) debate about the cause of the dramatic increase in violence among children. While these debates are going on, more children are dying. Cheryl states the obvious: if we can keep guns away from children, they can't use them to kill others.
The song lists all the excuses that people put forth for the increase in violence among children. The song ends with her saying: "But if it were up to me, I'd take away the guns."

Some have interpreted that to mean that Cheryl is in favor of getting rid of all guns. I think it is more accurate to say that the song promotes keeping guns away from unsupervised children. My interpretation of the song is that we can debate forever over the "cause" of increased violence, but children will keep getting killed until we do something to make it harder for children to get easy access to firearms.

Cheryl explained once that the song lists possible reasons why the kids were angry. Regardless of the reason for the anger, the reason the shootings happened was that the kids were able to get their hands on guns. Our society has decided that adults should be allowed access to firearms. It then follows that adults should make sure that those firearms don't fall into the hands of kids.

Cheryl mentioned hearing a news report that the 11-year-old boy was in his jail cell crying for his mother. It took her breath away, and she was hoping that the kid's mother didn't hear that report. Can any of us imagine what it must be like for a parent to find out that their child has done something terrible?

Rounder saw this song as a way to promote the album Sylvia Hotel. This song was released as the first single from the album. Every time it was played on a AAA station, Rounder donated $5 to the Center for the Prevention of Handgun Violence. This is an organization allied with Handgun Control (ala the "Brady Bill".)

After the Columbine School shootings in Littleton, Colorado, this song was adopted as a sort of anthem. The local radio station played it every half hour. When the NRA decided to still hold their convention nearby, Cheryl was asked to perform the song during a protest meeting.

The interest in this song was significant, not just in Colorado, but around the country. Rounder reinstated its offer to donate $5 every time the song was played on a AAA radio station. They also, with permission from Cheryl, "gave away" the song. It could be downloaded in its entirety from several websites.

Garth Brooks created a medley of this song and "Let's Get Together" to create a song called "Right Now" for his album Chris Gaines - Greatest Hits.


IF IT WERE UP TO ME
Words and music by Cheryl Wheeler
As recorded by Cheryl Wheeler on "Sylvia Hotel," 1999.

Maybe it's the movies, maybe it's the books
Maybe it's the bullets, maybe it's the real crooks
Maybe it's the drugs, maybe it's the parents
Maybe it's the colors everybody's wearin'
Maybe it's the President, maybe it's the last one
Maybe it's the one before that, what he done
Maybe it's the high schools, maybe it's the teachers
Maybe it's the tattooed children in the bleachers
Maybe it's the Bible, maybe it's the lack
Maybe it's the music, maybe it's the crack
Maybe it's the hairdos, maybe it's the TV
Maybe it's the cigarettes, maybe it's the family
Maybe it's the fast food, maybe it's the news
Maybe it's divorce, maybe it's abuse
Maybe it's the lawyers, maybe it's the prisons
Maybe it's the Senators, maybe it's the system
Maybe it's the fathers, maybe it's the sons
Maybe it's the sisters, maybe it's the moms
Maybe it's the radio, maybe it's road rage
Maybe El Nino, or UV rays
Maybe it's the army, maybe it's the liquor
Maybe it's the papers, maybe the militia
Maybe it's the athletes, maybe it's the ads
Maybe it's the sports fans, maybe it's a fad
Maybe it's the magazines, maybe it's the internet
Maybe it's the lottery, maybe it's the immigrants
Maybe it's taxes, big business
Maybe it's the KKK and the skinheads
Maybe it's the communists, maybe it's the Catholics
Maybe it's the hippies, maybe it's the addicts
Maybe it's the art, maybe it's the sex
Maybe it's the homeless, maybe it's the banks
Maybe it's the clearcut, maybe it's the ozone
Maybe it's the chemicals, maybe it's the car phones
Maybe it's the fertilizer, maybe it's the nose rings
Maybe it's the end, but I know one thing.
If it were up to me, I'd take away the guns.
I'd take away the guns.
I'd take away the guns.


(P) October 1, 1997

Penrod And Higgins Music / Amachrist Music ACF Music Group International Copyright Reserved

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: Alaska Mike
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 05:01 PM

Wake Up America
by Mike Campbell 2004

I work in a factory making children's coffins,
Seems like I'm working more each day.
I take pride in my craft, polished and shined,
But feel so guilty when I spend my pay.

I read in the paper that young Jimmy was dead now,
Shot through the heart with a big Forty-Five.
His daddy had bought that gun for protection,
Now his little boy is no longer alive.

    Wake up America your children are dying,
    Wake up America there's blood on your hands,
    Guns are the reason for the killing and crying,
    Now's the time to get them all out of this land.

I watched in the rain when they buried his body,
Coffin was shining, brass and wood.
Tonight I'm gonna throw all my guns in the ocean,
But I wonder if it will do any good.

    Wake up America your children are dying,
    Wake up America there's blood on your hands,
    Guns are the reason for the killing and crying,
    Now's the time to pull your head out of the sand.

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: open mike
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 04:55 PM

Cheryl Wheeler has the perfect gun song..
verbose, but right onl..
it has been covered by Garth Brooks
and many others..
the last line is if it were up to me
I'd take away the guns...

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: GUEST,MicroBalrog
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 04:18 PM

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1239663&postcount=14

Oleg Volk's, not mine.

Oil and grease and powder
A most welcome smell
Of guns and ammo a-plenty
And of thousands fired shells

Mirage wavers over the barrels
Targets look worse for the wear
We might be tired by end of the day
But, as we shall fight, we have trained

We might need a cleaning
But guns get cleaned first
Belts re-filled with AP and tracers
And magazines topped off

Oil and grease and powder
Smell of tool put to work
Reminder that we're in America
Not in Chicago, LA or New York

A most welcome, that smell
As long as we hold the guns
And anyone trying to take them
Won't, without a fight

They might start it, but we will finish
Just like Finns did in 1918
We'll blow smoke from rifle muzzles
And say "Dead reds smell like freedom"

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: Joe_F
Date: 28 Jul 04 - 06:44 PM

I have complicated views on this subject, which I'll be happy to express in prose in a suitable venue. However, if this is going to be a debate, it should be at least mentioned that there are songs on the other side, such as Leslie Fish's "They Were Having a Sale at the Gun-Store", which ends

So that was the end of the Jukes boys; the cops had to clean up the mess
So they slandered gun-owning civilians all over the liberal press.
But the victors who might have been victims, though silent, all know this is true:
So long as there's one weapon left in the world, you'd better have you a gun too.

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: The Shambles
Date: 28 Jul 04 - 06:12 AM

The answer came, just like a shot,
Four years late, so I think not!
Have things got better, in all this time?
You you wish to answer, please do it in rhyme.....

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: GUEST,paul
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 11:15 PM

Probably Dave Gordon, album = "natural causes". Very funny song. Check Famous Old Time Music Company [phone]. I think they have it on vinyl or cassette.

[e-mail]

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: marshman
Date: 04 May 00 - 12:46 PM

Since no one has responded to my request for lyrics thought I'd post this verse here. Does anyone recognize this ditty?

You might say I was quite serene
when I wrote your name with the M16
But didn't I set the hostage free?
Your getting bothered doesn't marry me.

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 May 00 - 02:56 PM

Now for a more light-hearted extension of this debate in song, try this Song Challenge thread

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: Midchuck
Date: 30 Apr 00 - 04:51 PM

I made my contribution to this thread before it got started, but here it is if anyone missed it (if I did the BCT right).

Peter.

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Apr 00 - 01:23 PM

McGrath-

LOVE the Gilbert & Sullivan bit! Wonderful- hadn't run across it before.

Greg

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: The Shambles
Date: 30 Apr 00 - 10:41 AM

MUDCAT VOW.

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Apr 00 - 07:10 AM

Once again: read it and weep - once again a flasher does his thing on the Mudcat. Put it away laddie. No one's impressed.

The "right to bear arms" is a right I disdain,
the "right to arm bears" is the right I proclaim,
and the "right to arm possums" out there in the timber
and give those brave hunters a time to remember.

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Apr 00 - 09:42 PM

No worries, Mate- you're not a moron! Far from it, in my humble opinion.

But it's hardly 'personal information' if its posted on the Web for a simple search to find, e.g.

Rick Fielding

---

[I deleted Rick's address and phone from this message. There's no reason for it to be here, especially when it's posted by someone who's afraid to state his or her own name].
Now, just cut it out, everybody, and get back to having fun and civil discussion.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 29 Apr 00 - 08:27 PM

Wow. Two guys who SIGN THEIR OWN NAMES putting their differences into ironic and (pretty) witty verse. By making a positive comment on this I am deserving of a "SEVERE PENALTY"? What might that penalty be? Perhaps "stealing my name", and posting insults, as was done to Moonchild last week. Perhaps starting a "B.S.MTed" thread with personal information in it (as you did last night) is the SEVERE PENALTY you're referring to. I truly hope not.

Rick Fielding

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Apr 00 - 06:40 PM

There should be severe penatties meted out for half-wit coddling: PLEASE don't encourage M.[oron] Ted in his antics; he's not in the least amusing.

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 29 Apr 00 - 03:46 PM

Ted and McGrath, you've got the potential to be the "Flanders and Swan" of Mudcat! Very good satire on a tough subject.

Rick

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Apr 00 - 03:32 PM

And here's another one, more directly on topic with this thread:

It seems to me the "gun debate" confuses two very different things - whether the present gun laws are adequate, and whether the constitution excludes tougher gun laws, as if that decided the issue:

Well, you didn't like Kings,
but the King was on the throne
so you changed the Constitution
Then the Constitution said
that a slave could be owned - so you changed the Constitution.

Then you didn't like drink,
but the Constitution did -
so you changed that law,
and the drink got hid.
Then you changed your minds,
"let's have a little drink" -
so you changed the Constitution.

So you don't like guns
but the Constitution says
you can keep your guns,
'cos that's your right.
But that's OK -
the American way
is "change the Constitution."

You can change your socks when they start to smell,
you can change your ways when they lead to hell.
So when the Times They are a-Changing - well,
you can change the Constitution.

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Apr 00 - 03:30 PM

Free verse is it? Right then, here's one I did earlier, as they say on the cookery programmes on the telly.

Dialogue of the Deaf

Everyone makes mistakes sometimes
We know that, though we do our best,
we are fallible.
You appear to believe
that we believe we never make mistakes.
This is so absurd
that you must be either fools or liars.
It is clear that you see us as our enemies,
and that we cannot trust you.
Therefore we must give you
no ammunition that you can use against us.
So we must at no time
admit to making any mistakes.

Everyone makes mistakes sometimes.
You never admit to making any mistakes.
This is so absurd
that you must be either fools or liars.
It is clear that you see us as your enemies,
and we cannot trust you.
Therefore we must give you
no opportunity to get away with any mistakes.
So we must at no time
admit that anything you do is right.

You criticise everything we do.
Apparently in your eyes,
we can do nothing right.
This is so absurd
that you must be either fools or liars.
It is clear that you see us as your enemies,
and we cannot trust you.
So we will not listen to any of your criticisms.

You never listen to our criticisms.
You appear to think that you never make mistakes.
This is so absurd
that you must be either fools or liars.
It is clear that you see us as your enemies,
and we cannot trust you.
If we letup, you will never admit
that you make mistakes.
Until you do that,
we will find fault with everything you do.

(I wrote this about my employers in Social Services, and the agencies attitude to outside criticism.

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 29 Apr 00 - 02:26 PM

Excuse my lack of verse
My rhymes keep getting worse
And it takes a lot more time
To get write and get my thoughts to rhyme

(Free verse, with political commentary, a la Ezra Pound-- can be sung to any of the 12-tone themes from Alban Berg's opera, Wozzack)

What you don't understand,
Contrary to your impression,
Is that most Americans
Do think the gun situation
Is disasterous--

If they didn't, you would never hear
About any of the problems,
Because they wouldn't be important,
And they'd never make the papers
Or the TV news--

What Americans
(even vegeatarian animal lovers)
don't like is the fact
that others seem prone
to slap our wrists
and say "no, no, no, bad children!!!
You and your constitution are all wrong!"

Someone has pointed
in another thread,
That the right to bear arms,
While delineated

In our Constitution,
Pre-existed the Constitution,
And in fact comes from English Common Law--
The same as you've got--

Keeping this in mind
I should be easy to find
A subject that you may treat in kind

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Apr 00 - 12:15 PM

My country is perfect, we're never to blame
although we are often provoked.
Some slight rough and tumble is part of the game,
when the odd football fan may get croaked.
But these foreigners don't see the joke

Prose interlude: But football volence in doesn't quite hit the spot. Start up a thread attacking it, I can't see anyone wading in to say it was a good thing, and part of the English way of life.

What I'm looking for is something that might have an equivalent charge to talking about guns in the American conntext - something that most English people think is great, and most other people see as disastrous. The idea that England has a useful role to play in Ireland might do, I suppose - it's interesting that the two most volatile topics on the Cat are gun laws and Ireland...

My country is perfect, we're eager to help
to sort out the world of today
Our neighbours are children, they cry and they yelp
and it's our job to order their play
and teach them to do what we say..

(Now that might mean the UK and Ireland, or the USA and Cuba.. ."If the cap fits, wear it", as they say.)

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 29 Apr 00 - 11:01 AM

(To the melody of the verse of "Red Wing")

As target of your wrath
We're curious, McGrath
If the home of your pointed witticism
Can be the target of your criticism?

Will soccer riots do?
We'll leave that up to you
We all await with bated breath
So hurry, Mac, or we'll catch our death!

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Apr 00 - 10:18 AM

Once more - with line breaks this time.

Just in case anyone gets it wrong,
I need another verse to that last song.V A verse looking sideways at the old UK.
To balance the one about the USA
Something that's crazy, that's evil and sad,
that's as special to us as your guns and your flag... Any idea's?...

Morris dancing? No I won't allow that, no way!
And the Queen? Well she's just showbiz today.
And locking up innocent people's a crime,
but you do that too, some of the time.
Maybe...football hooligans... Thank the Lord, at least they don't have guns...

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Apr 00 - 10:15 AM

A brief Talking Blues (just to show it's not America as such I'm on about).

Just in case anyone gets it wrong,
I need another verse to that last song.
A verse looking sideways at the old UK. To balance the one about the USA Something that's crazy, that's evil and sad, that's as special to us as your guns and your flag... Any idea's?...

Morris dancing? No I won't alow that, no way! And the Queen? Well she's just showbiz today. And locking up innocent people's a crime, but you do that too, some of the time. Maybe...football hooligans... Thank the Lord, at least they don't have guns...

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: The Shambles
Date: 29 Apr 00 - 07:01 AM

The song's merits are not important

In a thread about guns
NOT, crossed swords

Rick,
Old son
The song
Maybe wrong
But wait till you hear ALL the chords

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: Kelida
Date: 28 Apr 00 - 11:50 PM

I think this thread was a very good idea, but I think too that like any other thread about controversy, there are going to be a certain number of flamers and trolls. Unfortunately, they have as much right to be here as anyone. I only wish that they could be articulate enough to get some sort of understandable point across. . .

Peace--Keli

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 28 Apr 00 - 10:40 PM

Whoops, after writing those bad poems, I forgot to say, "Novel idea, Sham. I don't think your material is strong this time, but good on ya, for thinking of an inventive way to deal with this debate."

Rick

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 28 Apr 00 - 10:36 PM

Ah Shambles I know why you're trying,
It's tough what we read in the news.
Just too many young folks 'a dying
Trust me, We've ALL got the blues.
But sometimes the anger, tho' burning
is awkwardly spake, tho' not wrong
In ways to find peace, we're still learning
But this ain't your best-written song.

*********************

Guest Sandy, you're welcome as summer,
But mTed's been here for a while.
For all we know, you're just a "slummer",
And Ted's gave us many a smile.
Opinions, oh yes he has many,
Always a man for debate.
Valued 'round here just like any,
And his chord substitutions are great!

********************

Jeezus, this here doggerel writin' is hard!

McGonnigal

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: GUEST,Geist
Date: 28 Apr 00 - 09:58 PM

Intimidate such a perfect wit as yourself??? Impossible, I say! Surely impossible!! Just don't let it bother you, as you keep suggesting to others.

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 28 Apr 00 - 09:48 PM

-GUEST--I feel like your stepping outside the bounds of normal discussion and attempting to intimidate me--and since you have chosen not to post your name, or give any means of identifying yourself, it comes across as an anonymous stalker type of threat--

If this is not your intent--I would appreciate it if you would identify yourself, and clarify what your real intent is--

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 28 Apr 00 - 09:27 PM

It scans to"Poor Buttercup,
Poor little Buttercup"
At least, you repeat the first line
But I speak for myself
If you want something else
Write the verses yourself, I decline

When I talk of pansies, I only mean flowers
Though I know that you think that's not true
Still I do take delight
That you don't think's its right
When derision's directed at you

I grew up in a city all steel dark and grey
And we all struggled hard to survive
In this world vast and grand
We lived, mouth from hand
And none knew that we were alive

Today, I sit quiet and gaze at the earth
And I'm dragged from my sweet reverie
By a cruel trick of fate
Childrens death, crime of hate
With accounting demanded from me

And from far o'er the ocean from cause I know not
I hear voices of great indignation
Expressing outrage
At this scene on life's stage
Pointing blame at my country's foundation

Oh the country is vast and the borders extend
Past the limits of imagination
And I 'm just one man
Just a lone grain of sand
In a desert's enormous creation

so I ask why you care about these grains of sand
Or how you can tell from your distance
Which dark or which light
Which wrong or which right
And why do they need your assistance?

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Apr 00 - 06:47 PM

I believe the theory of this thread
Is make it rhyme, and keep your head.
So here is my response in verse -
when sung it might be even worse:

My country is perfect, in all of its acts,
like no other place on the Earth.
Don't say we're just human, you don't know the facts
on account of the place of your birth
you have nothing to say that's of worth.

My country is perfect for all of its faults,
that noone can mention but me
when they shoot up a school with a couple of Colts,
it's the price that we pay to be free
unlike pansies from over the sea.

My country is perfect, and you make me sick
when you say that at times we are wrong;
you say you're as bad, but that's just some kind of trick
like it's all been a trick all along -
No, I don't like your foreigner's song.

("The Route of the Blues" is the tune I have in mind.
If you don't know, some other you can find.)

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: GUEST,Trish
Date: 28 Apr 00 - 05:45 PM

The song doen't mention guns, but Eric Bogle wrote "One Small Star" after the Dunblane (Scotland) massacre by Thomas Hamilton, who shot 16 5-year-olds and their teacher. The song is about surviving the aftermath.

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: GUEST,Sir Arthur Conan and Doyle
Date: 28 Apr 00 - 05:43 PM

Shingles (the artist formerly known as Shambles),

Without melody and chords as a reference point, you songs are merely poems.

The more I read your postings, the more I wish you were J.R. Ewing, and myself as Joel Grey, screaming:

DO IT!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 28 Apr 00 - 05:24 PM

Ah, Sandy,

Thank you for the kind words...

But seriously--I was just "putting up" rather than "Shutting up" as Shambles asked--but, now that you mentioned it, I do think it was sort of clever--

But I think is is a bit unreasonable to expect limericks to be fair and balanced--

And I know all to well that I don't know-it-all(but I try!)

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: Wesley S
Date: 28 Apr 00 - 05:16 PM

Steve Earle said -

"The devils right hand, the devils right hand

Momma said a pistol is the devils right hand"

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: GUEST, Fast Charlie
Date: 28 Apr 00 - 04:45 PM

"Yes, it's insulting
Yes, it's juvenile
But at least it's there to be got at"

And we do...and we do....and will continue to do

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: Kelida
Date: 28 Apr 00 - 03:07 PM

I hope that my kids can grow up without fear,
In a world where violence and pain aren't near.
Is it too much to hope or idealistic?
Is a world in harmony just unrealistic?

Why can't we all just get along?
I know it's cliche, but would it be wrong,
To live in a world where people are kind
To each other, and there is respect for the mind?

Guns don't kill, but people do,
Why leave them go free 'till they do it to you?
Get the killers off the streets,
Don't wait until it's death you greet.

If people really want to kill,
They'll do it with gun, or car, or even pills
Outlawing the weapon won't undo or stop the crime
Don't wait to punish killers when there isn't time.

Peace--Keli

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: GUEST,Sandy Howarth
Date: 28 Apr 00 - 02:56 PM

MTed,

You must think you are awfully clever but I've got news for you, you are a show off and a clown. This is is absolute rubbish, an you ought to be ashamed for posting it. I have been reading some of the other threads today, as well, and in addition to being a hypocrite, you are condescending, and, as someone above so accurately said, "a know it all".I have noticed that there aren't as many people posting as there used to be, and who can blame them, when people like you use everything they say as an excuse to go on and on.

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 28 Apr 00 - 01:34 PM

We dwelt neath the thumb of a mitten,
Of the Empire they once called Great Britain
We rejoiced to learn things
About poets and kings
But alas, we are no longer smitten!

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: GUEST,The Yank
Date: 28 Apr 00 - 01:10 PM

From: M.Ted
Date: 27-Apr-00 - 09:31 PM

I said it to McGrath, and I'll say it to you--
You don't know the first thing about life here- I do
But Mr. Ted knows everything
About life in Great Britain, see
Can you spell
Hy-poc-ri-sy ??
(talking blues)

Copyright 2000 The Yank
All Slights Observed(Including those that aren't deserved)

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 28 Apr 00 - 12:41 PM

They asked,"Would you go to Great Britain?"
"A land full of pansies and kittens?
" He said, "Would be fun"
"But I can't bring my gun"
"And that isn't entirely fittin"

"We have guns in the land of "The Bard",
You can find them without looking hard
But they're kept in a box
"Cepting when we shoot fox,
And the occassional social retard"

"We were masters of killing, it's true
From Delhi to old Timbuktoo
Wog, nigger, or mick
If their accent was thick
We would "pop" them without much ado."

"But the days of the Empire are gone
And we buy all our tea from Taiwan
The sun seems to have set
So to Belfast we get
When we thrill for a kill with a gun"

Copyright 2000,Ted Boucher
All Rights Reserved(Including the Right to Bear Arms)

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 28 Apr 00 - 08:17 AM

That's more like it, Sham--When you're funny, it is inspirational--Sorry I don't have time, but I will write something for you, in reply--

Yank--No one has ever said it so well, or so accurately--It's a keeper!!

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: The Shambles
Date: 28 Apr 00 - 07:29 AM

Keli

The certainty of youth
I wish I had it back
Alas, life's highway
Is just a one-way track

It appears so clear to you now
And everyone one else a fool?
Will you feel quite so sure
Packing your own ones, off to school?

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: The Shambles
Date: 28 Apr 00 - 07:27 AM

Ted

Yes, it's insulting
Yes, it's juvenile
But at least it's there to be got at

Guns are insulting
Guns are juvenile
Your turn to put up, and be shot at

Put up or shut up
Do it better or do it worse
Doesn't matter what you say
But please say it in verse?

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: Kelida
Date: 27 Apr 00 - 11:50 PM

Personally, I feel we should outlaw bathing. I'm a bit scared now--sounds dangerous. So here's a ditty I thought might describe some more fears of mine (as one of the "kids" that gun laws are supposed to protect). . .

Not-So-Irrational Fears
somewhat to the tune of "My Grandfather's Clock"

My mother's bathtub was quite deep, I should say,
And she bathed in it every day
Well one moment she was singing and shaving her legs
Then she drowned and she's gone, gone away

Chorus
Irrational fears seem so rational to me,
When I think of the scare over guns,
Drowning, and bee stings, and shark bites and more,
Death seems like it's always at my door.

I once knew a boy who was stung by a bee,
And he died of a deadly allergy
We were out on the playground climbing the monkey bars
Then he fell and he cried out to me.

Chorus

I was spending vacation swimming in the Florida Keys, When a shark came and chomped on my knee, My bleeding was profuse, and a tourniquet no use, I got gangrene and that was the end of me.

Chorus

These are all more likely to happen then someone taking a shot at me at school, so maybe we should outlaw bathtubs and start a genocidal war against bees and sharks? There are so many other things to worry about in life. Why worry about death until it happens. Personally, when I die, I die, but I plan on enjoying whatever time I have on this earth, and I can't do that if I'm always worrying about improbabilities. It's bad karma, you know. . .

Peace--Keli

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: GUEST,The Yank
Date: 27 Apr 00 - 10:01 PM

Ah yes, the All-Powerful and All-Knowing Wizard, Mr.Ted, deigns to show us poor unfortunates the way to true enlightenment......

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: GUEST, A.C.
Date: 27 Apr 00 - 10:00 PM

It was also dreadful rhyme.

Somebody should put you in an institution for writing such drivel.

Subject: Lyr Add: BUY A GUN FOR YOUR SON (Tom Paxton)
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Apr 00 - 09:52 PM

BUY A GUN FOR YOUR SON
(Tom Paxton)
As recorded by Tom Paxton on "Ain't That News," 2005.

Hallelujah, dads and mommies,
Cowboys, Rebels, Yanks and Commies:
Buy yourself some real red-blooded fun!
If you want to make the grade,
You've got to have a hand grenade
And a fully automatic G.I. gun!

CHORUS: So buy a gun for your son right away, sir!
Shake his hand like a man and let him play, sir!
Let his little mind expand; place a weapon in his hand,
For the skills he learns today will someday pay, sir!

Pound that kid into submission
Till he's mastered nuclear fission.
Buy him plastic warheads by the score.
Once he's got the taste of blood, he's
Gonna sneak up on his buddies,
Starting his own thermonuclear war. CHORUS

Buy him khakis and fatigues,
And sign him up in Little Leagues,
And give him calisthenics as a rule.
Once you've banished fear and dreadm
Then pat his seven-year-old head
And send him off to military school. CHORUS

Once he's grown to be a man, he
Might get tired of blastin' Granny.
Then you'll see a crisis coming on.
Don't get worried; don't get nervous.
Send that kid into the Service.
Let him rise into the Pentagon.

At the Pentagon, he'll rise.
The President he will advise.
His reputation growing all the while.
With your picture on the wall,
He'll get that long-awaited call
And press the firing buttons with a smile. CHORUS

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 27 Apr 00 - 09:31 PM

Well Shambles, I think your song is a bit juvenile, and also rather insulting--the fact that is is in verse, as part of a song, really doesn't justify it--Alexander Pope and Oscar Wilde were notorious for expressing similar sentiments,, but they did it with wit and drollness--

This particularly is, well galling--"If you want to be free and quote the Constitution, The best place for you is in an institution"--though in truth, the awkward earnestness of the statement reflects more on you than on anyone else--

You know how important that can be--

At any rate--I said it to McGrath, and I'll say it to you--you don't know the first thing about life here--all you know about are news headlines--and those are dictated more by what politicians think will make their opponents look bad, than by what is really going on--

Americans know how to filter out the spin, and how to recognize the political bias in these news events--something that many outsiders have yet to learn how to do--

In truth, violence and violent crimes (as well as crimes in general) have been in steady decline here, for a number of years--

With all the fuss that is made about the epidemic of "kids murdering kids", it turns out that the actual number of these deaths last year in the US, is less than the number of people who drowned in their own bathwater during the same time period--

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: GUEST, A.C.
Date: 27 Apr 00 - 09:16 PM

Song for the Unborn (or something like that)

Rat a tat. Rat a tat. Rat a tat. Rat a tat.
Rat a tat. Rat a tat. Rat a tat. Rat a tat.
Rat a tat. Rat a tat. Rat a tat. Rat a tat.
Rat a tat. Rat a tat. Rat a tat. Rat a tat.

Rat a tat. Rat a tat. Rat a tat. Rat a tat.
Rat a tat. Rat a tat. Rat a tat. Rat a tat.
Rat a tat. Rat a tat. Rat a tat. Rat a tat.
Rat a tat. Rat a tat. Rat a tat. Rat a tat.

Rat a tat. Rat a tat. Rat a tat. Rat a tat.
Rat a tat. Rat a tat. Rat a tat. Rat a tat.
Rat a tat. Rat a tat. Rat a tat. Rat a tat.
You're DEAD

© 2000 Askme Carefully

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Apr 00 - 08:58 PM

Hallelujah, Dads and Mommies
Cowboys, Rebels, Yanks and Commies
Buy yourself some real red-blooded fun!
If you want to make the grade
You've gotta have a hand grenade
and a fully automatic G.I. gun!

     So buy a gun for your son right away, sir
     Take his hand like a man and let him play, sir
     Let his little mind expand, place a weapon in his hand
     For the skills he learns today may some day pay, sir! (etc...)

          -Tom Paxton

That's all I can remember off the cuff- will try to look up & post the rest unless one of the quicker Mudcat Denizens beats me to it...

Greg

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 Apr 00 - 07:34 PM

Tears And Winter Rain(Song For Kayla)

The slightest glimpse of springtime
Drowned in tears and winter rain
Has the sun fallen so low
That it will never rise again?

Will things now be different?
Without you, they can never be the same
May the spark of your short life
Light a long and lasting flame

This life was not of her choosing
She made no choice to die
She did not 'choose her weapon'
Or choose not, to say goodbye
You and I do have a choice
And I choose to question why?
And if you choose to answer
Don't choose another 'bloody' lie

The slightest glimpse of springtime
Drowned in tears and winter rain
Has the sun fallen so low
That it will never rise again

Will things now be different?
Without you, they can never be the same
May the spark of your short life
Light a long and lasting flame

Roger Gall 2000

Subject: RE: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: SINSULL
Date: 26 Apr 00 - 09:05 AM

Don't take your guns to town son
Leave your guns at home Bill
Don't take your guns to town...

Subject: The gun debate. IN SONG.
From: The Shambles
Date: 26 Apr 00 - 06:29 AM

Owning guns, to keep us safe.

You feel safe, when you've got a gun
I feel safe when you ain't got one
Want to be free and quote The Constitution?
The best place for you, is an institution

We are making war for peace
Help to make our profits increase
Trust us now and keep the faith
Owning guns to keep us safe

All the things that are made with a gun
Can be unmade with a just a bigger one
If you think a gun is part of the solution
The best place for you, is an institution

We are making war for peace
Help to make our profits increase
Trust us now and keep the faith
Owning guns to keep us safe

Well, it's just natural to have a gun
What's a hand for, if it's not to hold one?
If you want to exercise retribution?
The best place for me is an institution

We are making war for peace
Help to make our profits increase
Trust us now and keep the faith
Owning guns to keep us safe

Roger Gall 2000