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Subject: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: Metchosin Date: 30 Apr 00 - 06:26 PM I am curious about the song They Call the Wind Maria from the musical "Paint Your Wagon".
The composers are listed as Lerner and Lowe, but I have a Smothers Brothers LP from the early sixties, in which they claim that it is an old Dutch Folksong.
I know the Smothers Brothers were always "dicking around" in their introductions to songs and initially on this record, Tommy introduces it as an old Israeli folksong, but is then corrected by his brother, who says it is Dutch. Does anyone have further information regarding this tune? Did Lerner and Lowe base this song in fact on a Dutch Folksong? |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: Frankham Date: 30 Apr 00 - 08:21 PM I don't think so. Sometimes composers might unwittingly appropriate tunes from other sources. But since Lerner and Lowe have produced so many memorable tunes such as found in My Fair Lady and other musical scores, it seems unlikely that Lowe would base it on anything ethnic unless he intended to use it for a characterization. Now in Brigadoon, there may be some basis for Scottish tunes. Tommy was pulling the proverbial leg I think. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: Sorcha Date: 30 Apr 00 - 10:20 PM Remember that if you go a-searching, it is spelt "Mariah", not "Maria". (and I think Frank is probably correct, those boys made up an incredible amount of silliness! |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: Metchosin Date: 01 May 00 - 12:17 AM Sorcha, It is in the DT under the spelling of "Maria" and also on the Smothers Brothers record, as well as other sources that I searched as "Maria", which seemed odd to me at the time, as I would have thought that the spelling would have been "Mariah" too. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: Sorcha Date: 01 May 00 - 01:21 AM I found it in Coperinc 2000 (search engine) under Mariah, but no more useful info than you have for origins. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: Metchosin Date: 01 May 00 - 01:28 AM Frankham, it wasn't Tommy who said it was Dutch, but Dick who corrected him with the Dutch reference. If Tommy had said it was Dutch, I wouldn't have given it the slightest bit of creedance. I have emailed them for a clarification, but I won't hold my breath. *BG* |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: Rick Fielding Date: 01 May 00 - 01:50 AM It always struck me as typical of those "straight composer" attempts to write something that sounded like (their idea of) a folksong. Dmitri Tiomkin, and Randy Sparks did a lot of that. E Y Harburg's various musical partners did it as well. I think it was Aldo Monteconne (or something) who did that kind of thing for the "Spaghetti Westerns". The tip off is usually the C to Am (or Em) changes, or when they were being radical..C to Bb. Generally these composers would ALWAYS use altered chords, but not in their "folk" songs. Other songs of that ilk that come to mind, that some think are actual folksongs are: Greenfields, Green Leaves Of Summer, Summer Wine, Baby The Rain Must Fall, I was Born Under a Wanderin' Star (Lee Marvin..OY!) LOve Me Tender, El Paso etc. Some of the "fake folk" in Finian's Rainbow, must have struck me as pretty good at one point, 'cause I've got an old songbook of mine with "Look To The Rainbow" in it. Rick |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: Metchosin Date: 01 May 00 - 02:12 AM well fake or not Rick, to my mind, They Call the Wind Maria, is a powerful piece, especially if you don't chicken out on the word "god damned". |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: Metchosin Date: 01 May 00 - 02:17 AM www.salfolks |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: alison Date: 01 May 00 - 04:04 AM best song in the movie IMHO slainte alison |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: GUEST,the hiker Date: 01 May 00 - 04:58 AM Does anyone remember who sang the song in the movie, I dont think it was either of the principal actors |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: Mary in Kentucky Date: 01 May 00 - 10:52 AM I think an entire chorus of men sang it. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: MMario Date: 01 May 00 - 10:58 AM my memory says "the miners" - though there was one guy who took the lead.... |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: Metchosin Date: 01 May 00 - 05:54 PM Well this still doesn't help in my query but, here is the message I received from the Smother's Brothers Website this morning. They didn't tell me anything that I didn't already know, but I'll give them an "A" for quick response time. (still would have preferred a personal reply from Tommy though, oh well.) "We don't really have a record; however, I'd bet it really is a folk song and Lerner and Lowe adapted it. Usually Dick's routines are accurate and it is only Tom who makes things up. Many of The Smothers Brothers songs are folk songs that they adapted and copyrighted." |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: Irish sergeant Date: 01 May 00 - 10:19 PM I'm familiar with the song. It is from the movie Paint Your Wagon and neither of the principal sang it. Is the tune an old Dutch folk song? Only Lerner and Lowe can answer that one. The words are pure Broadway mucical whic the pair was famous for. My question is Who are the they they are referring to? Neil |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: Metchosin Date: 01 May 00 - 10:26 PM why couldn't a Dutch person answer that if they recognized the tune? |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: Metchosin Date: 02 May 00 - 01:40 AM I spoke to my brother earlier this evening about this song and his suggestion was that it might have come out of South Africa and the Dutch that Dick Smothers referred to might have been the the Boers. It could help to explain the setting and the mood. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: Sandy Paton Date: 02 May 00 - 02:10 AM My money says it's a Lerner & Lowe song from the get-go. It sounds pure "Broadway musical" to me, and always has. I wonder who the folklorist is who answers queries put to the Smothers Brothers' web site? Harrumph! Sandy (just an old folk fogey) |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: Joe Offer Date: 02 May 00 - 04:57 AM Hey, this is Sacramento's only musical, so please be kind when you speak of songs from "Paint Your Wagon." We're mighty proud of our history here, ya know. We got a Lerner and Lowe musical, and so did Camelot - how many places can claim that distinction? -Joe Offer in Sackatomato Town- |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: GUEST,dan evergreen Date: 02 May 00 - 09:52 AM The Kingston Trio did a beautiful version of it long before "Paint Your Wagon." So it couldn't have been written for PYW unless perhaps PYW was a Broadway musical before it was a movie. Was it? |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: GUEST,bob Date: 02 May 00 - 10:04 AM Yes |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: Barbara Date: 02 May 00 - 10:12 AM Is it possible that "Dutch/Israeli" refer to the ancestry of Lerner and Lowe? blessings, Barbara |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: catspaw49 Date: 02 May 00 - 10:14 AM Dutch huh? I dunno'............. I think the impact of the song would have been lessened if they'd "called the wind Kretchblatt." Just a thought. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: Metchosin Date: 02 May 00 - 10:58 AM It is possible Barbara, I actually thought of that, which would be a hoot in itself!
The date I have for Paint Your Wagon is 1951.
A friend is considering recording this and I was trying to get the background information for him, otherwise I would not be quite as obsessive. Musically it sounded very similar to me, to some Middle European Folksongs, such as the Hungarian song "Anna Thea (Lazlo Faire)" so initially I wasn't suprised to see a reference to the possibility that it was based on a folksong, but maybe the middle European roots are Lerner and Loewe's. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: GUEST,Dennis Date: 02 May 00 - 12:52 PM The song was sung by Rotten Luck Willey. In the movie Harve Presnell played the part. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: catspaw49 Date: 02 May 00 - 12:54 PM "Rotten Luck Willy?" I'll leave it alone......way too easy. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: Sourdough Date: 02 May 00 - 01:23 PM "Hey, this is Sacramento's only musical, so please be kind when you speak of songs from "Paint Your Wagon." We're mighty proud of our history here, ya know. We got a Lerner and Lowe musical, and so did Camelot - how many places can claim that distinction?" Once every hundred years, Brigadoon can. BG Soudough |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: Sandy Paton Date: 02 May 00 - 02:00 PM Sorry, Joe. I didn't say it wasn't a good song, nor a good musical, just that it didn't sound "folk" to me. But then, I'm not familiar with songs from the Dutch tradition. Shall we invite Kathy from Grand Rapids into this exchange? Sandy |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: leprechaun Date: 03 May 00 - 01:01 AM I seem to remember the spring of 1968, or maybe 1969, the Eugene Hotel, Lee Marvin and Clint Eastwood in town on their way to film Paint Your Wagon on one of our Oregon rivers. My memory may be jumbled as to when, but I'm pretty sure they passed through. As to great songs in Paint Your Wagon, how can we neglect to mention "(Hand Me Down That) Can O' Beans," or "No Name City?" And there are some great lines too - "Until you've had a shot of whiskey and a cigar, you're missing the second and third best things in the world." "...you haven't been recognized." "I'm Schermerhorn." How could you possibly pick a favorite? |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: Sorcha Date: 03 May 00 - 01:05 AM Not from Paint Your Wagon, but my fave line of all time: What we ha'uv heah, is a fail'uh to comm-un-i-cate....... |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: catspaw49 Date: 03 May 00 - 07:50 AM The latest request is somewhat different Sorcha, but everytime TBS shows "Cool Hand Luke" we get a request for the lyrics to "Plastic Jesus." I now send searchers HERE. And I agree, ol' Strother had one helluva' line there. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: GUEST,Mrbisok@aol Date: 03 May 00 - 08:04 AM Just saw the movie "High Fidelity." All you trivia searchers have to see it. Besides acting is great and the movie very funny. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: Frankham Date: 03 May 00 - 09:02 AM There is a similar Appalachian folk song that has a melody similar to Mariah. It's based on "The Devil's Nine Questions" in which the chorus has a similar phrase, "Sing ninety-nine and ninety". Lowe was a sophisticated musician who had an illustrious career in different fields as I recall as a riding instructor. His attempt was to create a generic "Western" song not unlike Dvorak's "Going Home" theme used in the New World Symphony. It does not sound like any song from Holland that I've ever heard. They usually have truncated phrases that reflect the highly articulated stocatto language with songs in a martial or march tempo and waltzes. More Germanic sounding than Celtic. Frank |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: catspaw49 Date: 03 May 00 - 09:34 AM Frank, quite seriously, your theory makes much sense and would tie in quite well with the actual "flavor" of the song and the context. On a less serious note.......Like I said, the impact would have been less if it went:
When you go to west P A, Doesn't work for me......... Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: MMario Date: 03 May 00 - 09:35 AM dunno 'spaw, I think you might have a hit there... |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: GUEST,Jennifer near DC Date: 03 May 00 - 09:45 AM Just wanted to weigh in on Maria -- in the 18ht & 19th century in the US Maria was pronounced Mari-ha. My great-great-great-grandmother was named Maria, and had a daughter named Maria. And as I was doing family research my aunt told me of tales of her mother pushing Aunt "Mari-ah" in a wheelchair on the boardwalk at Atlantic City. -- and when I found the spelling in a Census, she confirmed it was spelled Maria, and pronounced Mari-ah. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: Metchosin Date: 03 May 00 - 11:19 AM Kretchblatt, Kretchblatt They call the wind Kretchblatt
I dined on deep Dutch Apple pie
But then one day I left my home, Kretchblatt Krettchblatt etc.
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: catspaw49 Date: 03 May 00 - 11:26 AM Great expansion job Mets.........Maybe this DOES work. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: canoer Date: 03 May 00 - 11:31 AM LOL x 100, Metchosin, esp. the "so goddam thin" part! |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: GUEST,brownrecluse62 Date: 09 Jan 07 - 07:59 PM Aha, over six years later I'm posting this. It's certainly not a Dutch folk song. The Smothers Brothers often took certain songs and sang them as something different. The Israeli song 'Tzena' became the song of the Uruguayan camel races, 'Hava Nagila' was the Venezuelan rain dance, 'Whiskey in the Jar' was sung as an Eskimo folk song, etc. And the spelling 'Maria' is correct, even though there probably aren't that many people (in America at least) who pronounce it that way anymore. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: Muttley Date: 09 Jan 07 - 08:17 PM Nice, clever reply there 'Dough. Joe wrote: Hey, this is Sacramento's only musical, so please be kind when you speak of songs from "Paint Your Wagon." We're mighty proud of our history here, ya know. We got a Lerner and Lowe musical, and so did Camelot - how many places can claim that distinction? West Side Story ~ Chicago (?New York) My Fair lady ~ London The Mikado ~ Tokyo Phantom of the Opera ~ Paris Evita (Yecch) ~ Argentina (Buenos Aries) Les Miserbles ~ Paris (again) I can't think of any more offhand Muttley |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: GUEST,LynnT Date: 09 Jan 07 - 09:24 PM Flower Drum Song -- San Francisco |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: GUEST,brownrecluse62 Date: 10 Jan 07 - 12:17 AM West Side Story takes place in New York, I'm almost positive. But 'Chicago' takes place in Chicago, of course. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: GUEST,brownrecluse62 Date: 10 Jan 07 - 12:32 AM Oh, but none of the other musicals mentioned are by Lerner and Loewe. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: Jim Lad Date: 10 Jan 07 - 12:57 AM The Wind They Call Mariah refers to an old North American Indian legend which spoke of an ill wind that carried away all in its path. Interesting side note: Scottish Paddywagons were known as "Black Mariahs". |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: Joe Offer Date: 10 Jan 07 - 04:08 AM You can see that all those cities that Muttley listed are world-class cities, cities truly worthy of having a musical. Gee, it's nice to know that Greater Sacramento must also be a world-class city, right up there with Paris and New York. We also claim a song, Clementine, not to mention Banks of the Sacramento. Thanks, Muttley. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: Duke Date: 10 Jan 07 - 09:29 AM In the 60's, Toronto, a folk singer named Jim McCarthy sang Maria and most people who went to his gigs couldn't wait to hear him do it. He did a fantastic job. Great Song! |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: GUEST Date: 10 Jan 07 - 10:13 AM In the 1980's, a friend of mine sang a short, no-nonsense version: Away out West they have a name for wind and rain and fire. The wind is wind, the rain is rain, and they call the fire - fire. BTW, in Lerner and Loewe, Loewe was the composer and Lerner the lyricist. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: Stilly River Sage Date: 10 Jan 07 - 10:16 AM Good thing Harve Presnell sang "Maria," he has a pleasing voice. Seems to me the last time (perhaps only time) I saw Paint Your Wagon I winced through the lyrical performances of Eastwood and Marvin. West Side Story is unmistakeably set in New York City. It appears in IMDb that the song is also spelled "Mariah" in recent usage (see the soundtrack - filmography listings). Gigi is set in Paris and Royal Wedding (sans Loewe) in London and it appears that Lerner (also sans Loewe) had a hand in An American in Paris. I'll wager that is set in Paris. ;-) SRS |
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Subject: RE: Help: Origins of They Call the Wind Maria From: GUEST,Wendy in New York Date: 11 Jan 07 - 12:14 AM They Call The Wind Maria was written by Frank Loesser for his musical/folk opera The Most Happy Fella - just look for the recording of the album, it's right there. Trust me - I did the show! Wendy |
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