Help: Oral History to Book - How much editing

Subject: RE: Help: Oral History to Book - How much editing
From: MMario
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 12:33 PM

of possible interest click

Subject: RE: Help: Oral History to Book - How much editing
From: Mountain Dog
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 06:22 PM

Hi, Kat

Cast another vote for minimal editing, liberal use of periods, judicious use brackets and use of footnotes (or hyperlinks in the case of a CD version). These, for me, take care of inconsistencies and provide clarity without sacrificing the true voice of the speaker/storyteller.

I had the honor and tremendous pleasure of helping a friend's father put together his spoken memoirs during the last few months of his life; a project he had always wanted to do, but had never found time for...until he realized that he had little of it left.

We used a tape recorder, left running and unnoticed in a corner, and simply talked for hours on end (mostly him talking and me listening). Afterward, I would make verbatim transcriptions (with the microcassette player, not a transcriber - somewhat akin to plowing furrows in a stony New England field with a toothpick) and check with him on any questions of fact or points of clarification.

In the end, his family was left with a first hand recollection of a long and eventful life that not only sounded, but looked and felt like the man they had known so well and loved so deeply.

My personal feeling was, and remains, that the summing up of a life in the first person deserves to be conveyed just as it pours forth from the teller's lips...and let the reader decide whether or not to lend an ear to the tale.

Bless you for doing this work in the way your heart directs you. That is the truest guide you could ask for.

Subject: RE: Help: Oral History to Book - How much editing
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Jul 01 - 04:52 PM

MtnDog, that is wonderful! Thank you for sharing it with us.

MMario, I had not seen that, thanks very much.

Dicho, thank you. I have just ordered two books, after looking them over in the library, which are chockful of specifics for hundreds of sources of grant money for all kinds of projects: "Free Money and Help for Women Entrepreneurs" and "Free Money from the Government for Small Businesses and Entrepreneurs."

I have a friend who is working in the community foundation field whose boss just wrote a winning grant application for the Aspen Institute, so I know I could get help writing something up. My old boss is an expert at that, too, so I hope I can find some monies that way.

Chicken Charlie, thanks for the tip on the Writer's Market, I have subscribed online and am finding it helpful. I did study the U of OK publishing site quite a bit and they are pretty stringent on requirements, but I think I can meet those, once I've got the whole thing done and ready to ship.

One of the things I've just found out about which will garner interest for the book, I am working on getting the old homestead listed on the Colorado Scarce Places List, and possibly the Historic registry. If I can do that, there is a group which will help secure funding to restore the buildings or at least keep them from anymore decay. THAT in itself would bring about a lot of interest, at least locally. It seems a lot of people don't know the colourful history of the place, including my greatgranddad's shootout with a neighbour who ran his fence 12 feet over the line and died in the shootout. At my great granddad's trial the widow said it was the best thing anyone had ever done for her!

Anyway, thanks very much to everyone for your interest and encouragment.

luvyakat

Subject: RE: Help: Oral History to Book - How much editing
From: Mountain Dog
Date: 09 Jul 01 - 06:33 PM

Hi, Kat

Here's another book you might find of interest as a resource. "Writing Life Stories" by Bill Roorbach, published by Story Press, 1998 is subtitled "How to Make Memories in Memoirs, Ideas into Essays and Life into Literature."

It's full of good information about crafting creative non-fiction and has many helpful exercises. Worth looking up in the library )or at my favorite on-line used book source, Powell's). Even if you don't use it for your current project, it's a good reference work to remember for your next venture into the genre.

Subject: RE: Help: Oral History to Book - How much editing
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Oct 02 - 03:28 PM

Ha! Bet you all had given up on me. *bg* Two years and two moves later and I still have questions!

It's been shaping up quite well, though a little light on content, SO, I've been doing tons of research AND getting more stories from Dad. I am also going to have a whole other section of the book which will include my maternal grandmother's memoirs, about the same area, as written by her while in her late 70's in the early 1960's.

Anyway, with all of your suggestions, I'd decided to go with the footnote format for the research stuff, with dad's actual words quoted in indented paragraphs, with my comments and stories leading into each of his.

With all of the research I've been doing, the footnotes are running into a lot of space. My question is: should I change the format and put the formatted info into my paragraphs of the actual content? It would fatten the book up a bit, plus make my wriring job easier, as I could write in a more lyrical way, rather than just reporting facts, etc.

I don't know about you all, but when I get footnotes which carry on to the next page and I am not done with above text on the first page, I hate flipping back and forth.

So, please let me know what you think and what you prefer when reading these types of books. If you've already said in the past and don't feel like adding anymore, that's fine. I appreciate all of your help.

BTW, dad has read a rough draft and he is really happy about it, even when my research poked a few holes in family mythology.:-) Thanks to you all, I was brave enough to present it to him and not hurt his feelings.

THANKS!!

luvyakat

Subject: RE: Help: Oral History to Book - How much editing
From: MMario
Date: 28 Oct 02 - 03:51 PM

should I change the format and put the formatted info into my paragraphs of the actual content? It would fatten the book up a bit, plus make my wriring job easier, as I could write in a more lyrical way, rather than just reporting facts, etc.

I would say so - based on what you say you have found.

Subject: RE: Help: Oral History to Book - How much editing
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Oct 02 - 10:12 AM

Thanks, MMario. I've started a second version that way and I have to say I've already enjoyed it more than the other.

Subject: RE: Help: Oral History to Book - How much editing
From: MMario
Date: 29 Oct 02 - 10:37 AM

you know what they say - no plan of action survives the first encounter...I'm always for more lyrical writing...

Subject: RE: Help: Oral History to Book - How much editing
From: JenEllen
Date: 29 Oct 02 - 11:42 AM

Sorry, I've only read the refresh so far, so forgive if someone's stated this already, but to keep the lyrical format and stop the page flipping, could you arrange the footnotes at the end of each chapter? Are the sections delineated enough for that? I've read historical works both ways, with notes at the end of the chapters, and notes in a huge section at the back....both work okay, just requires TWO bookmarks!

Subject: RE: Help: Oral History to Book - How much editing
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Oct 02 - 12:06 PM

No, nobody's suggested that, JenEllen and I like that idea, too. In fact, I am running into what I consider too much chopping up of my dad's part, now that I've dug into it more (sorry, MMario:-), and am thinking the footnotes had better stay. I'll try it all three ways and see. Still, I don't like having to have two bookmarks and really do hate turning those pages back and forth.**BG**

Thanks, both of you!!

kat

Subject: RE: Help: Oral History to Book - How much editing
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 29 Oct 02 - 12:23 PM

If your notes are that extensive, you might head the facing page as "notes" and use that as a formatting concept, rather than tying the notes to the foot of the page.

Subject: RE: Help: Oral History to Book - How much editing
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 29 Oct 02 - 01:54 PM

Kat,

It's difficult to advise without an example. Would it be possible for you to post a 'sample page' (with footnotes) here?

I do like EBarnicle's solution however. I find having to continually turn to the end of a chapter something of a pain too.

Ed

Subject: RE: Help: Oral History to Book - How much editing
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Oct 02 - 02:23 PM

Sure, Ed, that's a good idea. Here ya go, the first page of the first section, with Page 2 so you actually get an idea of my dad's narrative, too. The footnote numbers are in parentheses, as the I din't want to do the html.:-)

PLEASE keep in mind, that this is a ROUGH draft, with various notes to myself included in the footnotes. My sources will all be listed at the back, NOT in the footnotes as I have them now.

As it stands, here, I've left in the page breaks and so far, all of the footnotes fit on these two pages on an 8 X 11 page, which I know will change upon publication.

Having hit a block, at the moment, I am arranging photos and documents for insertion throughout the book.

I've made my dad's text blue, as I don't know the html for indented paragraphs.:-)THANKS, ya'll!

_________________________________________________________________

THE HUDSONS & CRAWFORDS         Page 1

    Ever since I can remember, my grandfather, Frank Hudson, has been a very large presence in my life, despite the fact that he died one year before I was born. I always knew him as he came alive through my dad's stories of growing up with this larger than life character of the old ranching West.

    Frank Hudson was born in the middle of winter, in a log cabin on the Hammerich Ranch on Four Mile Creek, southeast of Glenwood Springs, Colorado. He grew to be a big man, well over six feet, with broad shoulders and back. Dimensions well-suited for the ranch work he was born to and the jobs he held later in life. His parents, Lorenzo Dowd(1) and Mary Beulah Forsythe Hudson were on their way across the Continental Divide(2) from Leadville to New Castle(3) to homestead on Garfield Creek, when he made his appearance on a bright, sunny December morning in 1885. Mary's father, Abraham Forsythe had staked his claim, earlier, then sent word to them to "come on over."
__________________________________________________________________

1) L.D. was known simply as Dowd, all of his life. It is pronounced Dode.

2) Dad is fairly certain they would have followed Tennessee Pass, from Leadville as far as Gypsum, where they would have then taken Cottonwood Pass on to Glenwood Springs. Glenwood Canyon had not yet been opened for travel. From there, after Frank's birth, they went over Three Mile Mountain and on down Garfield Creek, where they homesteaded.

3) The town of New Castle was first called Chapman and Grand Butte. Located on the Colorado River, it took the name from the noted English coal-mining community of Newcastle after coal was discovered in the area. The town's first Post Office operated under the name Chapman from 1884 to 1888 when it was changed to New Castle.

____________________________________________________________________

Page 2

    That Frank came from such stock as legends are told of makes it no surprise that his own have grown over time. My dad, Gardner Lorenzo, remembers his Grandfather L.D. Hudson, Frank's dad:        

As far as I know, the Hudson side of the house
originated on the East coast, Virginia, I believe. And
then, migrated to Lake Huron during the War of 1812(1)
They were shipbuilders and there was a fleet to be built
there to fight the British, which never materialized in that
particular area; but anyhow, I guess the fleet was built and
they settled there, ran sawmills and were builders from
then on.
My grandfather, Lorenzo Dowd Hudson, ran
away from home at the age of eleven(2), so that history
is more or less sketchy, although I do know he had one
grandmother that was a Mohawk; and any family that's
_________________________________________________________________
1)Recent research shows they actually went to New York, before Michigan and, at a later date. In L.D.'s published obituary, it states, having been born on 1854 in Lawrence County, NY, "he moved from New York to Michigan overland at the age of 3 years." It may be that relatives went out for the War of 1812 and invited the others to join them later. (WAITING FOR 1812 SERVICE RECORDS as his obit said they both came from stock who had fought in the 1812 war.)

2) In the same obituary for L.D. Hudson, it says, "He lived in Southern Michigan on his father's farm until he was 13 years old, when he heard the call of the great West and went to Kansas and Indian Territory," which would have been in 1867.

In a biography of L.D. Hudson in Progressive Men of Western Colorado , published by A. W. Bowen & Co., in 1905, it says that he lived in Texas in his childhood, with an older brother. The older brother sent him on his way home to Michigan at the age of fourteen, when he instead stopped off in Indian Territory where he stayed for eight years. (1812 service records ordered 7/02 for Dowd's grandfathers, maternal and paternal.)

© 2002 K. LaFrance All rights reserved

Subject: RE: Help: Oral History to Book - How much editing
From: Amos
Date: 29 Oct 02 - 08:44 PM

A passing thought, Kat -- if you are writing for the pleasure of the family your interjection of family relations (Dad, etc.) are a big plus. If you are writitng for those outside that circle it might read more smoothly saying consistent in voice (3rd person) and with an objective voice.

I think it's a grand project!

A

Subject: RE: Help: Oral History to Book - How much editing
From: wysiwyg
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 11:54 AM

I thought I would add this to an existing thread rather than start a new one, and I do not know if this link is already in this thread.

Oral History Recommended Methods from ORALHIST

~Susan

Subject: RE: Help: Oral History to Book - How much editing
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Dec 05 - 01:30 PM

Hmmm...sorry I missed that link, Susan. It's broken now.

With the distance of a year since Dad's been gone and my renewed vigor, I have finally begun work on this, once more. Just in re-reading everyone's input, I am inspired to finally get it done! Have worked all morning on it. I love the archives of Mudcat...I can always check back to see what was suggested and/or what the heck I said! Thanks, folks.

FWIW, I am incorporating the footnotes into the narrative to see how it "fits." Susan, if you can find a new link for that, please post it? I am still considering putting the footnotes at the end of each chapter, too.

It feels good to be back at work.:-)

kat

Subject: RE: Help: Oral History to Book - How much editing
From: wysiwyg
Date: 22 Dec 05 - 02:07 PM

Kat, I didn't find it at the site where it had been, and I started looking around here and there but was quickly overwhelmed-- too many resources but not necessarily applicable to your project, especially since I am not sure what you have pursued so far. But you might find something useful:

HERE, or HERE, or HERE...

...or you might not, but best of luck, and relish this project!

~Susan

Subject: RE: Help: Oral History to Book - How much editing
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Dec 05 - 02:56 PM

Thanks, Susan!

Subject: RE: Help: Oral History to Book - How much editing
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 23 Dec 05 - 02:58 PM

Kat:
AS far as editing goes even though it is an oral history don't be afraid to cuts parts of the story that aren't gemain to where it's going. If you're tied into a word count and you go over chances are the editor won't bother reading it unles you are well known (and Liked) by him/her. Can't help with the funding but I hope you make a good go of the project. Best of luck and feel free to pick my brain Neil

Subject: RE: Help: Oral History to Book - How much editing
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Dec 05 - 04:12 PM

Thank you so much, Neil. At this point I will be self-publishing as I did my previous book, so no worries on word count. In fact, I WISH I had more from dad! I am planning to include some genealogy (there's a market for books which include that!) and lots of old and historic pictures, not just of family, but of the area where they homesteaded.

It's so nice to *see* you, again! After the holidays, I may take you up on that brain-picking.:-)

luvyakat

Subject: RE: Help: Oral History to Book - How much editing
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 23 Dec 05 - 04:16 PM

By all means! Work has been hectic but should start to slow down now that Christmas is upon us (I work in a candle factory that specializes in relgious candles)I'll be more frequent on these boards. You have a lovely holiday and be safe and happy. Neil