Willie Nelson does Django

Subject: RE: Willie Nelson does Django
From: Frankham
Date: 29 Oct 00 - 01:27 PM

Check on the website Hot Club of Norway for a listing of the Rosenburgs. Gentlemen, start your search engines. (Ladies as well).

Paul Mehling's Hot Club of San Francisco is worth hearing. There are Hot Clubs all over the world, Scotland, Japan, Norway, Portugal, ...this form of music has been popular almost everywhere except for some reaons, America.

Those who are really devoted might want to take in the Samois Sur Seine festival in France which features Gypsy Jazz and some of the best Hot Club pickers in the world.

Django's main inspiration, which is sometimes mentioned, as well as with Grappelli's, is the playing of Eddie Lang, who with Joe Venuti started the basis of the Hot Club style here in America.

It's significant that Django influenced the early form of country swing music (particularly the southwestern Texas style).

Kathy Lee Gifford on Who Wants To Be A Millionaire couldn't identify Django which is a comment on the popularity of Hot Club music in the US.

Frank

Subject: RE: Willie Nelson does Django
From: Rob S.
Date: 28 Oct 00 - 02:33 PM

If you like the Django style playing, check out the Rosenberg Trio, they are great gypsy jazz musicians... I couldn't find any links to listen to their music, but I know that you can find some mp3's on napster... hope you like it..

Rob

Subject: RE: Willie Nelson does Django
From: Frankham
Date: 27 Oct 00 - 08:04 PM

Rick,

The company that put out Oscar Alenan's remarkable recording is David Grissman's. I love Willie and despair of hearing him attempt to emulate Django but if it gains converts to Hot Club music, it may have it's value.

I'm not all that down on Kenny G, Metheny notwithstanding. Not everbody can be a guitar or a jazz as genius and certainly there is room for all kinds and levels of ability. Haven't heard Willie's attempt yet but does he claim to be Django?

I think Oscar Aleman is as great as Django but I also love Django's "Gyspy tricks".

I think Willie is one of the most musical of the pop country acts.

Frank

Subject: RE: Willie Nelson does Django
From: Peter T.
Date: 27 Oct 00 - 04:20 PM

yes. alas. yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Willie Nelson does Django
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 27 Oct 00 - 04:17 PM

Well, that's the other reason that I hadn't bought it yet. Oh well. Any takers? American Thanksgiving is coming and we should have a contest of some sort for our friends south of us, the prize being the first annual Fielding/Peter T. Turkey award. I'm just hoping that Milk Cow isn't awarded to the 2001 winner.

So I digress again, have you heard Red Dirt Girl by Emmylou?

Subject: RE: Willie Nelson does Django
From: Peter T.
Date: 27 Oct 00 - 04:11 PM

Yeah, what went wrong -- Rick was supposed to unload the turkey on to you (sorry, Willie Nelson's delightful interpretation of Django's Reinhardt's peerless work). you shouldn't have had to fork out even $9.99. Glad to borrow the other....
yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Willie Nelson does Django
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 27 Oct 00 - 03:40 PM

Peter,

I say again, you're a tough guy. Not buying Willie because of this one? Come on. He ain't ever gonna be Barbara, or even Eric Clapton for that matter.

Here's the deal. I will buy Milk Cow Blues, I'll loan it to you. (I have to hook up with Rick anyway to get Teatro back) and we'll compare our thoughts.

I noticed the "died" in the wool typo too late. And in addressing a Professor. I'm ashamed of myself.

Steve

Subject: RE: Willie Nelson does Django
From: Peter T.
Date: 27 Oct 00 - 03:24 PM

I imagine they died in the wool, indeed.
"It wasn't nearly as good, specifically lively, as the originals" -- one of the classic understatements of our time.
I have stopped buying Willie's albums: he is just getting too mannered for my taste -- he is turning into Barbara Streisand with a bandanna. He thinks he is Willie Nelson (always a fatal trap).
Don't mind me, Steve. Friday afternoon, and we are on strike.

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Willie Nelson does Django
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 27 Oct 00 - 03:08 PM

Peter,

Man you're a tough guy. I also checked out a bunch of customer reviews on amazon.com before buying this one. There were a lot of people who really loved this CD there. I'm sure they are died in the wool Willie fans or they wouldn't be there reviewing this CD. So with my grain of salt I bought this (half Price admittedly). I don't think it stinks and I do think that it might lead some to Django.

Having said that I was listening to the Willie CD on my way to work thinking "this is okay." I have Django/Grapelli on my real player at work and heard the same tunes for the second time and found myself thinking that it wasn't nearly as good, specifically lively, as the originals.

I stand by my earlier statements. If I had never heard the originals I would probably love this CD, but it is a tribute at best and doesn't equal the original.

Okay Peter T., have you heard Willie's newest, Milk Cow Blues? I haven't shelled out for that one yet. My problem is I like my blues ala Bukka White and Son House and Muddy Waters. Not a big B.B. Fan, not at all a Johnny Lang fan, but even though they are on this CD I still hear Willie as an authentic Blues guy.

Subject: RE: Willie Nelson does Django
From: Peter T.
Date: 27 Oct 00 - 02:35 PM

1) The chances of anyone being drawn to Django by listening to this turkey are nil. In fact, it might make you want to go and attack a gypsy encampment somewhere (I know, I know, no offence to real gypsies everywhere);
2) How can you admire an effort of someone whose own work is itself more of a tribute to Django than this thing?
3) Did I mention it was really boring?
4) See 3.

(I am only saying all this because I paid full price, and eagerly awaited it. I am still burned).

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Willie Nelson does Django
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 27 Oct 00 - 11:56 AM

So I was frightened off of buying this CD by the above posts.

I was in a used CD store the other night and there it was for $9.99 CDN. I figured I'd better get it. (interestingly it was brand new and unopened.)

Here's my take. This is Willie and Family doing Reinhardt & Grapelli. They do it in their fashion. Willie was heavily influenced by Django, but I think he's be the first to admit that he's not Django. I think he does a lot of nice Django style Willie pickin'.

Bobbie is a country/honky tonk pianist. I found that there was too much piano on this CD, but then again, I'm used to the originals with no piano. Same goes for the Harmonica. I really like Mickey Raphael's playing in general, but I found it out of sorts and overused on this CD.

Johnny Gimbel's playing although nice at times doesn't seem to fit the music. But he's a country swing player and I wonder how Grapelli would have done with Bob Wills.

I bought my first Reinhardt/Grapelli CD largely because of hearing Willie say how influenced he was by Django. If I had never heard Django I would probably love this album. As it is, I will listen to it and proabably enjoy some of it.

If Willie fans buy this CD and discover Django because of it I think everyone will win.

Still a huge Willie fan and admire him for doing this one, a tribute to one of his heroes.

On another note, while at the store I also purchased the first Bob Dylan album. I had it vinyl, but hadn't heard it in years. What a classic.

Subject: RE: Willie Nelson does Django
From: GUEST,Steve Latimer
Date: 13 May 00 - 05:55 PM

Apparently what Rick says is true. A lot of his wealthy friends did buy his stuff and get it back to him. Good for them, Willie has a long history of helping others, and many returned the favour.

Subject: RE: Willie Nelson does Django
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 13 May 00 - 02:50 PM

I read that a number of prominent music people bought his stuff and gave it back to him.

Rick

Subject: RE: Willie Nelson does Django
From: Wesley S
Date: 12 May 00 - 03:57 PM

By all caught up I assume that you mean that Willie doesn't owe the IRS anymore. I agree. At least thats what I've heard. But how does he recoup what was lost? Considering that the IRS sold off a lot of personal possessions.

Subject: RE: Willie Nelson does Django
From: GUEST,Steve Latimer
Date: 12 May 00 - 03:23 PM

Apparently Willie is right up to date with IRS. He sued his accounting firm, they were responsible for a lot of it, he released an album and did a tour and voila, all caught up.

Subject: RE: Willie Nelson does Django
From: Wesley S
Date: 12 May 00 - 01:50 PM

This is just a thought - I haven't heard the CD - but could it be that Willie is just trying to get a lot of product out on the market?? The IRS hit him pretty hard from what I've heard and if he's just trying to get a release out there that will make him some money I can't really blame him. A woman in my office plays that "smooth jazz " crap all day long and it seems to be a pretty big market. Not every release from every artist can be a winner. I'll probably think it's boring but there are others out there that might think it's mellow and relaxing. Just my opinion.

Subject: RE: Willie Nelson does Django
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 12 May 00 - 12:58 PM

Bugger, this always happens!! Where the Hell is Terry Allan Hall now that we need him? C'mon Terry, I'm willing to defend my review to the death. You can call me every name in the book, and I promise I won't be insulted. And....I promise not to repeat my oft-told story about my ex leaving me during a Willie concert.

Album still sucks

Rick

Subject: RE: Willie Nelson does Django
From: GUEST,James
Date: 11 May 00 - 01:04 PM

Yea, Peter I know what you mean.. I think I gave up when he put a pind of love in the stew.

Subject: RE: Willie Nelson does Django
From: GUEST,Peter T.
Date: 11 May 00 - 01:01 PM

I love Paul: but such Everest-like mounds of dreck, requiring Sherpas to avoid the Abominations. Flashy crap; useless avant garde fakery; 10 second snippets of tunes that disappear undeveloped; pretentious pseudo-classical pap. Every album was supposed to be the best since (take your pick -- Band on the Run), and out of how many -- 15 albums since McCartney in 1970? -- there is maybe enough new material (I exempt the retreads and the Russian R&R album) for one decent album. Like a fool I listened to them all in hope. Irving Berlin wrote over 1000 songs, of which only a hundred are keepers, so I am not bitter. Much. I love Paul: I have the sales slips to prove it.

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Willie Nelson does Django
From: GUEST,James
Date: 11 May 00 - 12:38 PM

I am not a great Paul MacCartney fan.. But I think Band on the Run Was a great album....a true classic. I don"t know why people love to hate old Paul..He has written some classic songs.

Subject: RE: Willie Nelson does Django
From: GUEST,Steve Latimer
Date: 11 May 00 - 09:44 AM

Peter T,

Paul McCartney had Wings. I love it. I could never understand what people saw in that band.

The other thing about Willie's playing is it has to be experienced in concert. On record he doesn't play nearly as much as he does on stage. Man, what a live show they put on.

My sister is guitar player, studied classical guitar, taught guitar, and has listened to all kinds of playing including Django, Joe Pass, Herb Ellis, Doc Watson, Muddy Waters, Johnny Winter and many others. I took her to see Willie a couple of years ago only because she wasn't very familiar with him and I knew she would be impressed. She was amazed by his playing. She is now a great fan, especially of "The Red Headed Stranger"

Subject: RE: Willie Nelson does Django
From: Peter T.
Date: 10 May 00 - 10:28 AM

I think Willie Nelson's guitar playing is very sneakily expert -- that easy style (try and do it at home campers! hah!!) -- and I am a longstanding Django fan, but really, this album is so boring!!! I can listen to almost anything else Willie did -- Across the Borderline has a couple of clunkers -- for hours. I guess everyone is entitled to a dud -- Mozart's Clemenza de Tito is dull; Shakespeare's Titus Andronicus is a mess; Paul McCartney had Wings; The United States produced morning television. You can't win them all.

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Willie Nelson does Django
From: GUEST,Steve Latimer
Date: 09 May 00 - 12:45 PM

James,

I have to disagree with you about the "artist of the Guitar" statement. Perhaps Willie isn't as schooled in this style of playing as he should be to pull this album off, but I feel that Willies playing is a wonderful hybrid of various influences including Blues, Jazz, Texas Swing and even has Mexican influence. I believe that he has blended all of these influences with his own strong personality to come up with a sound that is maybe not as technically proficient as a Django, Chet Atkins or Tal Farlow, but I feel that it sure is artistic.

My two cents worth.

Subject: RE: Willie Nelson does Django
From: GUEST,James
Date: 09 May 00 - 12:03 PM

Hi Terry;

I have been listening Django for many years...30 or more...I also have a passion for guitar playing. I am not an expert, but I do know lack lustre playing when I hear it..and this album is painfully dull. As I have said, I have never felt that Willie Nelson possessed the skills to play this kind of music..he has not the art of it.. if you know what I mean. I am not saying that he is not talented..but he is not in the league of Django or any other passionate musician. he is an adequate craftsman..but an artist of the guitar... I don"t think so.

Subject: RE: Willie Nelson does Django
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 09 May 00 - 11:54 AM

Hi Terry

You're a welcome voice here. I take no offence, and LOVE to debate the merits of music.

My problem with the album is that it mirrors EXACTLY the efforts of Kenny G and his ilk...but with UNINSPIRED PLAYING, from beginning to end. Why on earth would Willie repeat a song from "Red Headed Stranger" (I'm sure you know which one) and remove all the sublety from the original? Johnnie Gimbel, who has played so brilliantly for years (did you listen to his albums with Tiny Moore?) sounds totally uninspired. (didn't know about his illness)

Surely you don't think this album is in the same ball park with the pre-war Django/Grapelli recordings?. Even the later ones with Rostang showed infinitely more spark.

This album strikes me as a "late night jam session" with a bunch of folks just "mellowin out". From Willie I expect much better.

Rick (no expert..but a devoted fanatic)

Subject: RE: Willie Nelson does Django
From: GUEST,Steve Latimer
Date: 09 May 00 - 09:50 AM

Terry Allan Hall,

I think that you're new here. Welcome, it's an interesting place filled with people who have a passion for music.

As I mentioned, I'm sure I'll like the CD. But I detect some sarcasm in your "experts" (not that there's anything wrong with that). But I certainly consider Rick Fielding to be an expert, he is a tremendous musician, teacher and musicologist, one of the finest resources that The Mudcat has. He is also a Django fanatic. And a super guy as well. He has been known to call a spade a spade and this is just an example of that. I have not met Peter T, but I think he has similar credentials.

I think that I will enjoy the CD because I am not the expert on Django that Rick is. I have a Django and Grapelli CD and really like it, but I think Rick knows every note that they've ever played, so he might not appreciate someone else doing their material.

Subject: RE: Willie Nelson does Django
From: Terry Allan Hall
Date: 09 May 00 - 09:34 AM

Hate to differ w/ you "experts", but the album is VERY good, Willie pickin' is in fine form, and possibly you (the "experts") would be happier listening to Kenny G or some other elevator (simpler) music.

Or perhaps you might like to educate yourselves to the nuances of "Gypsy Jazz"...Sinti, Stephane Grappelli, and/or Martin Taylor's catalog(s) would be some good places to start.

Or even Django's own recordings.

Subject: RE: Willie Nelson does Django
From: GUEST,Joel
Date: 08 May 00 - 02:31 PM

Rick, Johnny Gimble recently suffered a stroke. I met him a bit before that and he seemed "out of sorts". Joel

Subject: RE: Willie Nelson does Django
From: Peter T.
Date: 07 May 00 - 03:20 PM

This is a test.

Subject: RE: Willie Nelson does Django
From: GUEST,Steve Latimer
Date: 06 May 00 - 05:11 PM

Rick,

I'd be delighted, but I'll have to figure out something to get you in return.

Steve

Subject: RE: Willie Nelson does Django
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 05 May 00 - 06:32 PM

Yeah right! BIG FLOP!
(my fault) yours, Peter T. (apologies to all, we are test driving this thing. Anyone got any Djangology to bring this back to normal?

Subject: RE: Willie Nelson does Django
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 05 May 00 - 06:26 PM

Wow, Peter T just showed me how to make

BIG

letters!

I'm ready to take on that Phillipine trouble maker!

Rick

Subject: RE: Willie Nelson does Django
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 05 May 00 - 06:24 PM

Wow, Peter T just showed me how to make

BIG

letters!

I'm ready to take on that Phillipine trouble maker!

Rick

Subject: RE: Willie Nelson does Django
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 05 May 00 - 06:21 PM

So Steve, do ya want the sucker or not?

Subject: RE: Willie Nelson does Django
From: GUEST,Steve Latimer
Date: 05 May 00 - 10:01 AM

Rick & Peter

Geez,

Thanks guys. I don't know what to say.

James, Stardust was my introduction to Willie and I love it to this day, but in fairness having been about twenty when I first got it I was unfamiliar with just about all of the songs on it. I agree that Willie isn't the finest tecnical player in the world, but he has great tone and feel and in my opinion that's what music comes down to. I've heard far too many guys who are technical masters who aren't musical.

Subject: RE: Willie Nelson does Django
From: GUEST,James
Date: 05 May 00 - 09:48 AM

I was amazed that willie Nelson would even attempt this. I am not a great fan of his and I have never thought that his guitar playing was particularly good. Having heard this album I know now that his technical skills are considerably less than I had thought. He has attempted some very suble pieces...and they are beyond his ability...and understanding. Too bad, Django deserves better. As for Stardust, I thought he missed the point of many of those songs as well. Sorry, just not a fan.

Subject: RE: Willie Nelson does Django
From: GUEST,Peter T.
Date: 05 May 00 - 09:20 AM

Absolutely, Rick. Sure, Steve, it's all yours!
yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Willie Nelson does Django
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 05 May 00 - 01:17 AM

What a f*****g disapointment! I am a huge Willie fan, and this is pure bullshit from beginning to end. Willie's "Stardust" album was excellent...sparse arrangements, nice playing, good singing, and I thought this might be of similar ilk. Not a chance!

Ok, although he's a very inventive guitarist...fast he ain't..too many downstrokes, but this album is like a dirge, from beginning to end. Sister Bobbie is a strong country chord pianist but she doesn't have the first clue about jazz. Her work is simply embarassing (and she gets OUT OF SINC!!!...where the Hell was the producer when THAT happened?) The biggest disappointment for me though was that Johnnie Gimbel sounds awful! I don't even know how that's possible...but he is..terrible tone and worse note selection. I'm not even sure why they had a rhythm section if they were going to Mix Bobbie's left hand so loudly.

Oy Peter T, you hit the nail on the head. Worst album by a "good" artist I've heard in years.

If you really want a treat, get the two CD set of the amazing South American "Django style" guitarist Oscar Aleman. Even Django thought he was great. You'll have to hunt the label down yourself, 'cause I've forgotten.

Rick

Hey Peter...what say we give it to Steve Latimer and save him the bucks?

Subject: RE: Willie Nelson does Django
From: Peter T.
Date: 04 May 00 - 12:05 PM

Dear Steve, you may like it. Don't let me put you off. I am a big fan too: I was able to tune out the surroundings. Harmonica and fiddle work are nice from time to time.

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Willie Nelson does Django
From: GUEST,Steve Latimer
Date: 04 May 00 - 10:49 AM

Peter,

I'm a huge Willie fan so I'll get it anyway.

Bobbie is his sister, been playing with him since they were kids.

Thanks for your input though.

Steve

Subject: RE: Willie Nelson does Django
From: Peter T.
Date: 04 May 00 - 10:13 AM

Well, Steve, I would cancel your order, alas. I heard the album last night, and while it has some nice classy Willie guitar work on it, the arranging is a disaster. Every tune has exactly the same arrangement, same bunch of instruments, dragged down by dull piano work by Bobbie Nelson (wife? daughter?) and even duller drumming. It is really disappointing.
yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Willie Nelson does Django
From: BlueJay
Date: 03 May 00 - 01:45 PM

WillMart!! That's Great. LOL!!!

Subject: RE: Willie Nelson does Django
From: GUEST,Steve Latimer
Date: 03 May 00 - 01:27 PM

Peter,

I'm not sure that it's in the stores, but it can be ordered through Willie's official site, www.willienelson.com

Of course the merchandising part of the site is called willmart. (I'm not making this up)

If you like Django and Willie, you have to check out the three piece Winnipeg band Swing Soniq who recently played Greenbank. They're great, but I have no idea how to get their CD. My sister bought one at Greenbank and there is no contact info in the liner notes. I've promised Rick I will get Susan's copy to him as it would be great for his show and I know that he would love it. The next time I make it to the big smoke from Whitby.

Subject: RE: Willie Nelson does Django
From: Peter T.
Date: 03 May 00 - 12:33 PM

Geez, Steve, telepaths or what. I didn't know that Willie had done an album with some Django. I am going to rush right out. I love his playing, and knew that he had been influenced!! What a great thing. I am out of here!!

yours, Peter T.

Subject: Willie Nelson does Django
From: GUEST,Steve Latimer
Date: 03 May 00 - 12:25 PM

I have always been a fan of Willie Nelson's guitar playing. When I heard that he was influenced by Django Reinhardt I got a Django CD and love it.

Willie's Newest CD, Night and Day is his first all instrumental and he does a number of Reinhardt numbers.

You can listen to the whole CD online here.

www.broadcast.com/jukebox/listeningparty/willienelson/

I really like what I heard and I'm definately ordering the CD.

Has anyone else heard this and if so, what are your thoughts.