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Ettiquette in the Cafe

GUEST,Rob O 16 May 00 - 07:54 AM
Allan C. 16 May 00 - 08:01 AM
JedMarum 16 May 00 - 08:05 AM
GUEST,Rob O 16 May 00 - 08:17 AM
Homeless 16 May 00 - 08:20 AM
Homeless 16 May 00 - 08:20 AM
Homeless 16 May 00 - 08:25 AM
Homeless 16 May 00 - 08:28 AM
MMario 16 May 00 - 08:32 AM
Homeless 16 May 00 - 08:32 AM
MudGuard 16 May 00 - 08:58 AM
Ringer 16 May 00 - 09:26 AM
catspaw49 16 May 00 - 09:46 AM
Barbara 16 May 00 - 10:10 AM
Callie 16 May 00 - 10:11 AM
Jacob B 16 May 00 - 10:44 AM
McGrath of Harlow 16 May 00 - 12:55 PM
McGrath of Harlow 16 May 00 - 12:58 PM
GUEST,Horton Zumwald 16 May 00 - 01:43 PM
Jed at Work 16 May 00 - 01:50 PM
Amos 16 May 00 - 02:12 PM
IvanB 16 May 00 - 04:40 PM
IvanB 16 May 00 - 04:43 PM
Joe Offer 16 May 00 - 04:50 PM
Jim Dixon 16 May 00 - 06:29 PM
Áine 16 May 00 - 07:51 PM
GUEST,Rik 16 May 00 - 08:22 PM
Jon Freeman 16 May 00 - 09:24 PM
Robo 16 May 00 - 10:32 PM
GUEST,Rob O 16 May 00 - 11:41 PM
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Subject: Ettiquette in the Cafe
From: GUEST,Rob O
Date: 16 May 00 - 07:54 AM

Hi all!

I have a quick question:

Is it considered "Bad Form" to request chords in this forum?

The reason I ask is that in the past I have requested lyrics and they have emerged within moments, but whenever I asked for the chords to a song, I rarely if ever got them.

I love the music, but my ear, to be honest, sucks. I can play and usually sing in tune but I know NO music theory and so trying to put guitar chords to a song on my own is nearly impossible.

But if it's considered "inproper" to ask for that kind of help here, I'm cool with that. There are other venues available to me.

RobO


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Subject: RE: Ettiquette in the Cafe
From: Allan C.
Date: 16 May 00 - 08:01 AM

It is not at all improper to request chords. There are some among us who possess the skill to post them so that they come out looking as they should. However, it is a difficult skill to acquire. Often the chords end up off-center and over the wrong words, or even a lot worse. For that reason, there are few who will attempt the task. Still, it doesn't hurt to ask. Also, once in awhile the song is already available, complete with chords, on another site to which one of us might be able to direct you.

Happy hunting!


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Subject: RE: Ettiquette in the Cafe
From: JedMarum
Date: 16 May 00 - 08:05 AM

agreed, Allan. Posting chords is a bit more difficult. And on top of that; so many of us play the songs a bit differently so the chords vary, keys vary ... It's OK to ask, Rob ... but you may not find as many folks willing to provide chords as you do lyrics.

having said that, what song/s did you have in mind? maybe I can help.


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Subject: Hmm... the door ye have opened...
From: GUEST,Rob O
Date: 16 May 00 - 08:17 AM

Thanks!

I guess I recall asking 3 times for the chords to Nil Na' La and go t frustrated as one poster admited to the song being part of his usual repetoire, but never saying "By the way, the progression I use is G-C-G-D" *shrug*

If I have a string of chords by phrase I can place them to a song. I just don't ahve an ear for figuring out what they are. It's sooOOOOOoooo frustrating! I can tell the chords I'm trying are "wrong" I just can't find the one's that are "right".

Anyhew:

Right now I want to work up "Fields of Athenry". My friend and I are playing open mic at an Irish pub and trying to rise out of it.

Thanks for the support!

Rob


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Subject: RE: Ettiquette in the Cafe
From: Homeless
Date: 16 May 00 - 08:20 AM

Why is posting chords such a problem? Can you not just change the font to a non-proportional font such as Courier New? Or is it that people don't know how to change the font?

The following lines are a test of the font theory...
G G
Ten years ago on a cold dark night
D D7 C G
there was someone killed 'neath the town hall light.


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Subject: RE: Ettiquette in the Cafe
From: Homeless
Date: 16 May 00 - 08:20 AM

Sorry for the clutter. I see the problem now.


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Subject: RE: Ettiquette in the Cafe
From: Homeless
Date: 16 May 00 - 08:25 AM

One more try. This worked in a regular HTML doc.

  G                  G  Ten years ago on a cold dark night            D       D7                C         G   there was someone killed 'neath the town hall light.  


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Subject: RE: Ettiquette in the Cafe
From: Homeless
Date: 16 May 00 - 08:28 AM

I hate cluttering up this thread, but now I'm getting stubborn and am determined to find the solution. It sure would be nice if there were a simple way to share chords, yes?

  G                  G
Ten years ago on a cold dark night
D D7 C G
there was someone killed 'neath the town hall light.


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Subject: RE: Ettiquette in the Cafe
From: MMario
Date: 16 May 00 - 08:32 AM

As an addendum, I don't think of it so much as less people willing to post chords, as there are are less people able to post chords then lyrics. It is usually much easier to find lyrics to a song in a search then the chords. Then when you add in the additional difficulties of posting them.

Several of the abc conversion programs have a feature that will suggest chords, however, so for those seeking chords it might be worth looking into that aspect. ABC's of many tunes are almost as easy to find as the lyrics, and they are also easier then the chords to post.


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Subject: RE: Ettiquette in the Cafe
From: Homeless
Date: 16 May 00 - 08:32 AM

Ha! Got it! OK, kids, heres how to do it. In my sample below, replace all occurances of braces {} with angles <> and you'd get the above output. Change the text to be your lyrics and chords and you should be set. Now it'll be harder to use the excuse of bad formatting. Maybe this should go in the Help thread?

{FONT name="Courier New"}{PRE}
G G {br}
Ten years ago on a cold dark night {br}
D D7 C G {br}
there was someone killed 'neath the town hall light. {br}
{/PRE}{/font}


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Subject: RE: Ettiquette in the Cafe
From: MudGuard
Date: 16 May 00 - 08:58 AM

Instead of <FONT name="Courier New"> and </font> simply use <tt> and </tt>. This tells the browser to use a TeleType font (i.e. an un-proportional one).
With tt you will get proper results if there is at least one unproportional font on your machine (which may or may not be Courier New)
Btw, you can use &lt; and &gt; to get angle brackets without them getting interpreted by the browser.
MudGuard


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Subject: RE: Ettiquette in the Cafe
From: Ringer
Date: 16 May 00 - 09:26 AM

If your ear sucks, RobO, have you considered that you may have your orifices mixed up? ;-)


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Subject: RE: Ettiquette in the Cafe
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 May 00 - 09:46 AM

Good Point!!! And if your nose runs and your feet smell, then you're built upside down.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Ettiquette in the Cafe
From: Barbara
Date: 16 May 00 - 10:10 AM

I'll have a crack at posting you some chords to Fields of Athenry, RobO, later this morning. I don't know the other song.
Blessings,
Barbara


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Subject: RE: Ettiquette in the Cafe
From: Callie
Date: 16 May 00 - 10:11 AM

Laugh laugh laugh!

I spend a considerable amount of time reading threads at work. It's just not practical to pull out the guitar and start working out chord progressions. My colleagues would have something to say about "outside core activities" for sure! But to recall lyrics often doesn't require the same brain power.

Chords to some songs are posted on OLGA and its various mirror sites, although it's mainly for pop songs - not so much trad folk on it.

Keep asking, Rob!

--Callie


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Subject: RE: Ettiquette in the Cafe
From: Jacob B
Date: 16 May 00 - 10:44 AM

Peter Barnes' book "Interview With A Vamper" has a section on figuring out chords from a melody line. It's a book about playing piano, but if you don't play piano yourself, you can give it as a gift to someone who does play the piano, and them borrow it back.


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Subject: RE: Ettiquette in the Cafe
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 May 00 - 12:55 PM

Easiest way to put chords in a post is to stick them in the text in brackets:

Happy(C)Birthday to(G)you etc

But the thing is, any one note will fit into lots of different chords, and some people like to put in more chords changes than others and we all sing songs in the keys that fit our voice and so forth. So there isn't any one "right" set of chords to a sing. (Mind, there isn't any one right set of words either, if it's been kicking around for a good few years...)

But now let's just try Homeless's recipe:

   G                  G 
Ten years ago on a cold dark night
D D7 C G
there was someone killed 'neath the town hall light.


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Subject: RE: Ettiquette in the Cafe
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 May 00 - 12:58 PM

That's good! Thanks indeed. (Next time I'll try MudGuard's modification, and see how that works out.)


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Subject: RE: Ettiquette in the Cafe
From: GUEST,Horton Zumwald
Date: 16 May 00 - 01:43 PM

I find it best to post the chords separately from the lyrics, with the chords for each measure separated by the slash mark |C C/A7 A7/D7 G7/C C| because it is much easier to play when you don't have to figure out how the words scan to know where to play a chord--


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Subject: RE: Ettiquette in the Cafe
From: Jed at Work
Date: 16 May 00 - 01:50 PM

don't know either tune ... sorry.


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Subject: RE: Ettiquette in the Cafe
From: Amos
Date: 16 May 00 - 02:12 PM

I have always had success using the tilde as a separator on alternate lines with chords marked over the appropriate words, making sure to use the linebreaks appropriately. Thus:

C~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~F~~~~~~~~~~~
I didn't know God made Honkie-Tonk Angels,
F~~~G~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~G7~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~C
I might have known you'd never make a wife

The easy way to do this is to put a whole line of tildes in alternate lines, with the other lines the lyrics, and then drop the chord letters in place where they belong replacing the tilde characters over the correct words.

A


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Subject: RE: Ettiquette in the Cafe
From: IvanB
Date: 16 May 00 - 04:40 PM

Well, let's try:

  FIELDS OF ATHENRY

G C G D7
By a lonely prison wall, I heard a young girl calling
G C D7
"Michael, they have taken you away,
G C
For you stole Trevelyan's corn,
G D7
So the young might see the morn.
D7 G
Now a prison ship lies waiting in the bay."

G
Low lie the fields of Athenry
G D7
Where once we watched the small free birds fly
G C
Our love was on the wing
G D7
We had dreams and songs to sing
D7 G
It's so lonely round the fields of Athenry.

This is a simple arrangement in G. Obviously, the song can be transposed into a range comfortable for your voice.


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Subject: RE: Ettiquette in the Cafe
From: IvanB
Date: 16 May 00 - 04:43 PM

And, obviously, I missed a break on one line. The chorus starts with a G chord and continues to the D7 on the word 'fly' iin the second line.


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Subject: Posting chords
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 May 00 - 04:50 PM

I fixed your missing line break, Ivan. You don't really need to specify a font, at least when you're posting at Mudcat. All you need to do is put a preformat tag <pre> before the section with chords, and a <br> line break at the end of every line - and then close off the chords section with a </pre> cancel preformat tag.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Ettiquette in the Cafe
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 16 May 00 - 06:29 PM

Here's one good reason NOT to intersperse chords on the same line with lyrics. It screws up the search function. For example, consider the song LET'S TALK DIRTY IN HAWAIIAN by John Prine, which is in DigiTrad. (It just happened to be the first song I found with embedded chords.) The chorus contains the line

"What the hecka mooka mooka (G) dear"

If you search DigiTrad for "mooka mooka dear" you WON'T FIND IT.


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Subject: RE: Ettiquette in the Cafe
From: Áine
Date: 16 May 00 - 07:51 PM

Dear Rob O,

I'd be happy to post the chords for Níl 'Sé 'na Lá for you. However, I'll need to know for which version you'd like them. If you know the lyrics you'll be singing, give me the first two lines or so, and I can tell which one you'll be singing.

-- Áine


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Subject: RE: Ettiquette in the Cafe
From: GUEST,Rik
Date: 16 May 00 - 08:22 PM

try using C, F, and G/G7 for folk songs. Use a capo to change the key. But the best way is to simply get a basic music theory book and work in the chords to any song in any key. It takes time , but it's worth the effort


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Subject: RE: Ettiquette in the Cafe
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 16 May 00 - 09:24 PM

To follow on McGrath's comments about diferrent patterns of chords being possible, I find that this can make a chord request interesting when different alternatives get posted.

Jon

(who uses McGrath's simple method)


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Subject: RE: Ettiquette in the Cafe
From: Robo
Date: 16 May 00 - 10:32 PM

Rob O . . .

Just wanted to say hi.

Rob-o


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Subject: RE: Ettiquette in the Cafe
From: GUEST,Rob O
Date: 16 May 00 - 11:41 PM

Thanks for all the help, especially the lyrics to one of the few songs that "Lovely Parting Gifts" does that will be "my" song. (that's our duo's name)

Peace!

Rob


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