From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS

Subject: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: Max
Date: 17 May 00 - 02:02 PM

Hi all, notice that Teal thread stuck at the top of the forum? That is a PermaThread. Joe, Dick and I have been trying to figure out the most effective place for a couple of important and helpful administrative messages that can also be interactive (posted to). We found it. I hope you don't mind it too much. Right now we just have the FAQ, but I know of another 2 or so PermaThreads coming soon. The rules are simple: Each PermaThread has an owner. Joe is the owner of the FAQ. Anyone can post to the PermaThread, but the owner reserves the right to edit or delete anything he or she wants. This will keep them effective and neat. Stay tuned guys, new and exciting additions will be unveiled throughout the summer.

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: MMario
Date: 17 May 00 - 02:06 PM

Scared the teal right out of me, Max, I thought I'd broken the forum! But it's cool. neat. And unique! (at least as far as I know)

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: MMario
Date: 17 May 00 - 02:10 PM

okay - I just answered my own question, which was "which thread do we post to?" - but I see that you are somehow cleverly mirroring. Masterful. You are the KING!

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 17 May 00 - 02:12 PM

Sounds like a great service Max.. Joe does a great job for us too... Thanks, Yours, Aye. Dave

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 May 00 - 02:13 PM

WOW!! That is a wonderful way to teal with the problem, Max!!! Love it!!! Thanks!!!

luvyakat

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 17 May 00 - 02:17 PM

So is Permathread sort of like a tatoo on the forum?

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 17 May 00 - 02:21 PM

Would someone please buy me a dictionary for Hannuka

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 17 May 00 - 02:33 PM

It looks like an excelent solution.

Jon

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: bbelle
Date: 17 May 00 - 02:54 PM

Bonnie ... Isn't that pronounced "Cha" nooka ... moonchild

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 17 May 00 - 02:57 PM

Max...would it be practical to Permathread some of the "classic" threads, example "Spancil Hill", the Vietnam Thread, or the original Mudcat Tavern thread, to preserve their integrity? I realize that all threads at this point are open to contributions, but it would be nice to resurrect some Classics without the fear that flames or extraneous posts will be added to them.

LEJ

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 May 00 - 02:58 PM

"Permathreads" - sounds like some kind of footwear. Or maybe some kind of tyre.

Anyway it's a neat idea. Sort of anarcho-despotism. I can relate to that.

When I read "teal thread" I thought there must be a bird stuck up there to keep the catfish company. Then I started racking my mind for acronyms, or wondering whether there might be some kind of esoteric internetty significance I hadn't come up against.

Then I thought, maybe it's a word for a kind of blue? I think that must be it.

I'm looking forward to the "New and exciting additions". Of course there's the old Chinese curse "May you live in interesting times"...

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: Mooh
Date: 17 May 00 - 02:58 PM

...got copyright for permathread? Good idea. Mooh.

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: MMario
Date: 17 May 00 - 03:01 PM

maybe a permathread for the flamers --we could call it a perma-match....

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 May 00 - 03:04 PM

Thanks, Max. I think your "permathread" idea is just right.
LEJ, I'm going to steal your idea and add it to the FAQ. Watch your personal messages for a request.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: Max
Date: 17 May 00 - 03:05 PM

LEJ, I would consider adding a PermaThread^TM for a "Greatest Threads of the Mudcat" concept. I am going to be very selective of what ends up there, I never wanted to exceed 3 or so PermaThreads. Shall we nomitate you as the administrator of that PermaThread should it exist?

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 May 00 - 03:28 PM

Permafrost for the flamers!

"In my house there are many mansions..."

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 17 May 00 - 03:32 PM

Joe, got your Personal Msg. I would suggest limiting any Classic Threads list to 10 at most. As in all "Best Of" lists, the matter is certainly open to dispute and conjecture. I would think that Classic Threads should give new Mudcatters an idea of the scope of discussion, the Sublime to the Slightly Silly. The Spancil Hill Thread should certainly be there, but probably the Tiple Thread as well. How would these threads be selected? By popular Mudcat acclaim, or by the Special Appointment of Max? I may start a separate thread to get Catters feeling on the Mudcat Classic Threads concept.

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: catspaw49
Date: 17 May 00 - 04:00 PM

Well its Ok except that the color is hard to see and I don't like having it up there and I thinks its too long in most ways and its too short in other ways and the title is bad and the permathread title is bad and the whole idea is OK except for the bad parts like having the thread at the top and editing the postings and then deleting the postings and the size of the print where it says permathread is too small or the trace prints should be smaller and your dick is too small and then you should add special section dealing with changes to the permathread and maybe a permathread about the permathread if you could put it above the other permathread and if I think of anything else I'll let you know.

harpgirl---(Well, really Spaw, but she hasn't got here yet so I thought I'd save her some typing)

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: wysiwyg
Date: 17 May 00 - 04:10 PM

Spaw, that wasn't necessary, especially for all eternity. I hope that post is edited out.

Max, Permathreads? Tops in my book!

~S~

Praise, just so you know - we try to avoid editing out messages as much as possible. We figure people here should be big enough to take an insult here and there.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: Bert
Date: 17 May 00 - 04:30 PM

Aw! He's just kidding Sugar! He just has to get at 'everybody' and he's run out of CRS jokes about me at the moment. Watch it though, he'll be after you next.

And our Harpgirl is more than a match for him.

Bert.

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: Giac
Date: 17 May 00 - 04:34 PM

Oh, I get it! Now the forum matches
the T-shirts. Den, um is blue,
with teal perma-lettering.

'spaw, you kill me. Does Cleigh know
about this?

Love it, Max. Great idea. Thank you.

giac

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: Peter T.
Date: 17 May 00 - 04:46 PM

Just to recopy a part of what I wrote in the Mudcat Classic Threads thread: While the Permathread is a nice idea, I think that we should have only one of them. I am glad to hear that Max only wants to have 3 or so, but I would keep it to 1. The top of the posting space for threads is very valuable real estate -- I would be very reluctant to add any more -- I don't want to have to look at them every time I check in -- having the FAQ is good, but no more. I think the FAQ should be restructured so it is short and has all the possible additional threads clickable from it. One is enough. (just my opinion: I don't like stifling initiative! I like the teal colour by the way!!!!!!)

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: catspaw49
Date: 17 May 00 - 06:52 PM

Harpy's always been more than a match.....and its been a long running joke that whenever Max....that should be Maahhhxxxx........changes something, harp comes up with a list of complaints. Even Max has ribbed her about it (on Radio too) and she holds her own against all comers.....except the time she prematurely announced the arrival of Dr. Boom.

On a serious note (C#).........I'm with Peter. Although I like the idea of a list of permathreads, I don't want them at the top. One's enough.

Spaw

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 17 May 00 - 07:08 PM

Permafrost Pur'-ma-frawst(verb MEPerme(to make hard )-frostprob. SAXON(to cover in ice )

1.To render unchangeable a Thread see permathread

Well, this term has entered the Mudcat vocabulary in record time. In fact, a Mudcat lexicon may be the next addition to the FAQ, eh Joe?

LEJ (who just finished The Professor and the Madman: A Tale of Murder,Insanity, and the Oxford English Dictionary)

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 17 May 00 - 07:20 PM

Thanx, Max

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: Max
Date: 17 May 00 - 07:30 PM

Peter and Dick, I've so far decided on 2 PermaThreads. Dick and Sandy get number 2, and I'm hesitant for more, but will listen to suggestions. Peter, you are absolutely right, that space is a commodity.

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 17 May 00 - 07:36 PM

Max and everybody else: There's an excellent reason (space aside) for keeping the number of permathreads down to a very very few:

The idea is to provide guidance to newbies. Neewbies may read the first one or two threads before diving in, but certainly not ten or twelve.

Classic threads, IMO, are best handled as links, with access to the links explained in the first permathread.

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: Bill D
Date: 17 May 00 - 11:01 PM

am I the only one who cannot click directly on the 'Permathread'?...I get a blank screen with a message 'gif image 32x32 pixels'

that happens if I click http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?ThreadID=19340

on the other hand, the live non-permathread is http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=19340&messages=61 note the difference in case in the name..This has happened to me before, and it is very strange. I long ago discovered I could go to ANY other thread and change the # and get there, but I just tonight saw that upper/lower case difference...relevant?

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: Max
Date: 17 May 00 - 11:06 PM

I changed the case bill, but I can't imagine that was a problem, probably just one of the crazy glitches somewhere. ???

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 17 May 00 - 11:06 PM

LEJ: I just read it, too. Have you read the book that inspired the writer of "Madman" to investigate the subject: Chasing the Sun? It's hard to imagine a book about the "dictionary wars" being so totally engrossing!

I'll vote for no more than three Permathreads to ride up there at the top of the threadlist.

Sandy

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: Terry K
Date: 17 May 00 - 11:22 PM

I think dick greenhaus already said it, but it would seem to me that "classic" threads would be better held as a heading in Quick Links - (particularly if any of the chosen threads has political content!!).

And to have the FAQ as an edited PermaThread is just brilliant.

Cheers, Terry

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 17 May 00 - 11:48 PM

I'll second what 'Spaw said...the second time. Hey, Max, great idea, and Joe, I really like what you've done with the FAQ thread since I last looked at it. I even noticed -- oops! -- that when I posted my song recently I should have put it in DT format. (It's OK, it's not much of a song anyway.) Thanks again, friends, for all your hard work. We appreciate it!

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 18 May 00 - 12:03 AM

Sandy, thanks for the tip, I will check out Chasing the Sun.

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: GUEST
Date: 18 May 00 - 12:15 AM

...well I was tempted to post anonymously since this is the first time my From: box has been empty but what the heck. I hate the color. I hate the rules. I hate it when people defend me when I am perfectly capable of defending myself. I like being made fun of. I like finding out what people REALLY think about me. I hate change. I hate those little letters representing sentences or descriptive phrases...like LMAOAYS...I love it when Pat or Bert or even Max (hey I missed that radio episode!) kids me...I hate it when people get self-righteous...I like it when women have a sense of humor...I think I have Asperger's Syndrome....so what????? I hate censorship especially when someone worries that someone will "be offended" but I hate to have someone's religious belifes pushed at me...I hate potty jokes and bathroom humor...LMAOAMS...(don't censor this until everyone has read it)!!!!!harp

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: GUEST
Date: 18 May 00 - 12:16 AM

way cool! I finally got a Guest in my From box!!! Watch out everyone....harpgirl

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: GUEST
Date: 18 May 00 - 12:21 AM

..oh and I hate it when everyone fawns all over Max. Get a life people!!! Why does everyone think he is always right?????? ( no offense Max) harpgirl

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 May 00 - 12:33 AM

Gee, Harpy, I used to think Bill D was our artiste of curmudgeonry. The trophy hereby transfers to you.

But if you're posting without a cookie, how do we know you are who you are?
Or aren't?
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: MudGuard
Date: 18 May 00 - 02:28 AM

TEAL: The Ever Alive List???

PERMA-Thread: Postings ERased Million years After creating-Thread???

Great idea, anyway. But it should be a limited number of threads. IMO.
MudGuard

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: GUEST,Mrr
Date: 18 May 00 - 10:28 AM

Good idea to perma- the FAQ thread. Teal might not be a good color, as both blue-yellow and red-green colorblind people will have trouble with it, but I think it's pretty, so there. Question, though: Why does the thread appear BOTH as perma (teal, at top) AND in its regular place? I'd omit it being listed within the body of the threads-posted-to-that-day, as I found it confusing to have it both places.
On another note, I would recommend adding a "classics" Quick Link that could take you to a page listing all the threads consensus, or the Folks In Charge, decide to call Classics, rather than trying to perma the threads so considered.

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: alison
Date: 18 May 00 - 10:46 AM

Just a thought.. instead of having it at the top of the list of threads.. could it be somewhere else?.. like in that space over at the right...... for anyone who doesn't look closely.. when you refresh the screen it looks like there haven't been any new threads if it is always at the top...........

it needs to be somewhere that newbies can find it easily.. but does it really have to be where all of us have to trip over it??

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 18 May 00 - 11:02 AM

Well Alison, if other newbies are anything like me, if it isn't pasted on my forehead I don't see it.
I kind of like the Permathread right at the top, it makes it very noticable to anyone who is new.
Catters who know there way around the Mudcat will get use to looking down a bit on the Forum, kind of like wearing a pair of bifocals.

Little Neo

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: harpgirl
Date: 18 May 00 - 11:23 AM

...thank you Joe. I accept! And Bonnie, you no longer qualify as a newbie...the resident curmudgeon... t

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: GutBucketeer
Date: 18 May 00 - 11:24 AM

Permanent threads are a great idea!!!!

They are, however, permanent, and have the potential to get very very LARGE.

A suggestion for your consideration. Please don't include the list of posters at the beginning of the thread. Also, provide permanent threads in reverse sort. Then the newest information would always appear first. If someone has a slow connection they should also be able to hit the stop loading icon and still see the most recent additions.

Just some ideas.

JAB

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 May 00 - 11:41 AM

Well harp beat me to the punch.....You ain't a newbie Bonnie. And JAB, the other two threads that Max is considering may be different, but Joe's FAQ should be laid out as a basic info thing with "the basics" first. What's the point of a Newcomers Thread if the basic info is at the end?

A list of "Classic Threads" as a link in the FAQ is OK, but let's not get too far gone on what's classic. An explannation of the Super Search with suggestions on researching old threads may be more fun for someone new and they might get the hang of things a bit faster.

And while I'm complaining.....The only thing that I would really like is a change in color. I think it needs to stand out a little more. If it was bright red/blue/whatever, it would also help in Peter and alison's complaint about having it at the top. A heavy primary color would delineate it more and make it easier to find also.

Spaw

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 18 May 00 - 04:24 PM

Harpgirl, Catspaw or anybody, what is a curmudgeon?
I've seen that description around here before and I just don't understand what it means?

Little Neo

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: MMario
Date: 18 May 00 - 04:33 PM

a grouch. a crabby (usually elderly) person.

from "First word" - " a definition. Curmudgeon: a crusty, ill-tempered and, usually, old man; a cantankerous old codger."

and "dictionary definition of curmudgeon, you'll find that it refers to a "surly, ill-mannered, bad-tempered person.""

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 18 May 00 - 04:50 PM

Harpgirl, did you read MMario's definition of a Curmudgeon? Why would you call me such a name?
Oy, and I thought I was Polly Anna. I'm Polly Anna right MMario?
Harpgirl, maybe you got me mixed up with somebody else?

Little Neo who apologizes to Max and everybody else for all the off topic thread stuff I am creating

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 May 00 - 05:00 PM

BonnAmie....She didn't. Harpy is referring to herself from the title Joe gave her in his post......a title for which there is some competition around here, myself included. She said YOU are not a newbie...and I agree...You're not.

Spaw

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: MMario
Date: 18 May 00 - 05:03 PM

and yes, it was decided early on, LN - you are a pollyanna!

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 18 May 00 - 05:05 PM

Oh I get it Catspaw
What are we going to do with me?
My comprehension is so poor. I try my best, but sometimes it is the pits. Ask Rick

Oh, well Little Neo

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: MMario
Date: 18 May 00 - 05:23 PM

Little Neo - you are hearby sentenced to a session at HearMe. No appeals. *grin*

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: MudGuard
Date: 19 May 00 - 03:22 AM

Just an idea, Max. You could put a <hr> between the Permathreads and the Non-Permathreads. This might solve Alison's problem but still keep the Permathreads where they are now: at an easy to find place.
MudGuard

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: Crowhugger
Date: 19 May 00 - 04:48 AM

The concept is brilliant. I like having one PT; I agree with the thinking that newbies will only read so much. As for making it invisible to regulars, the human brain, well mine at least, will surely stop seeing it soon enough. Kind of like the clean laundry on the living room chair awaiting folding.

IMHO the PT should look and behave like a regular thread so that newbies know what to expect. (tranlsation for harpgirl: IMHO TPTSLABLARTSTNKWTE.) If there is a reason to alter things like the list of posters, perhaps use a clickable arrow or scroll bar to make the whole list available. But only if it's shortened enough to make the first posting appear on the initial screenful.

BTW, Max is KING??? I'd always thought he's a computer geek who likes folk music and maybe has a good tax attorney regarding matters of lifestyle. Live 'n' learn!

CH.

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: harpgirl
Date: 19 May 00 - 06:51 PM

...hahahaha CH!

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 19 May 00 - 07:27 PM

Alison's point is not a major problem while there was only the present permathread up top. It's very title is just what anyone might expect to find permanently on top. If there's to be another though, it would help if it finished up with a similarly indicative subject line.

The downside of teal, on my machine at least, is that it's the colour that other threads turn to to indicate that they've been opened during current session. But then the latter may be something I can customise on the desktop.

Subject: Finding PERMATHREADS
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Feb 01 - 07:28 PM

Q: Where are the PermaThreads™?

A: Find them in the FAQ.

---

Somebody wondered about the new Photo Album PermaThread, and how to find it. Somebody else had trouble locating the Musician-Songwriter PermaThread. Somebody thought PermaThreads should be listed at the top of the list of threads on the Forum menu. Somebody else thought they should be in Quick Links.

I hate to add more PermaThreads to either the QuickLinks or the list of threads. QuickLinks is very long already, and more PermaThreads at the top of the threads list would make the most recent threads disappear from your screen. So, for the time being, you will find a list of all the PermaThreads in the Mudcat FAQ. That makes it so the JoeClones™ and I can revise things quickly and easily without bothering Max to do it.

If there's a PermaThread you refer to on a regular basis, you can click on the "trace" link to add it to your personal page, or bookmark it yourself in Netscape or add it to your MSIE Favorites. I'd kind of like to see if we could get people used to looking in the FAQ for PermaThreads and other things like that. If tha6t doesn't work, I thought it might be an idea to have one PermaThread in Quicklinks that serves as an index to all the others. What do you think?

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: catspaw49
Date: 15 Feb 01 - 07:37 PM

I wish that more people would read the FAQ Joe. I also would like to see peace in our time and a good 5 cent cigar.

I DO think that a "Quick Link" labeled "Permathreads" would make finding and directing other to them a far easier job. One listing as you say that is an index which you can get to whichever one you want would be a fine addition.

Also, in the regular links, I noticed your note and I agree completely. Is there a way at this point of deleting or combining some categories? Some things are a bitch to find because they could hit any number and we have too many choices. Anything we can do?

Spaw

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Feb 01 - 08:01 PM

Funny you should mention it, Spaw. I do a lot of deleting and editing on the links page, but we still have over 500 links there and it takes a long time to load. I was kind of thinking of asking you to take the first step and move all the instrument links into a PermaThread that I would maintain according to your instructions. I was also thinking of moving the performer links from the links page to the Musican-Songwriter PermaThread. What think ye?

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: MMario
Date: 15 Feb 01 - 09:23 PM

sounds like an idea. You could then put a link to the appropriate permathread on the "links" page, right? That wouldn't need updating - and eventaullly would reduce the links page down to one link per category

Subject: RE: From Max: Introducing PERMATHREADS
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 16 Feb 01 - 02:39 AM

Joe, the permathread index is a great idea.

Jon