 sj |
||
|
||
Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too?
|
|
|
Subject: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: GUEST,Mrbisok@aol Date: 23 May 00 - 12:33 PM I wanna play the Mudcat game, and I don't want to break your rules. Say there's a Texas based DJ who plays folk songs in the Welsh langage. Say I can't stand the Welsh folks, their music, and want to sound off about it. May I name names? I realize swearing is taboo. But may I present the facts as I see them, number of Welsh songs he plays per show for example, and argue against his playlists, hoping to pursuade others rally to my cause? I'd really appreciate guidance. -- Harold from Hawthorne |
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: MMario Date: 23 May 00 - 12:45 PM I suppose you can, though you may have many come back at you in disagreement. However MY question would be, if you disagree with this DJ's playlist and show content, why are you listening? Find another show to listen to... |
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: Rick Fielding Date: 23 May 00 - 12:46 PM I'll reply Harold, 'cause your post is already at the top,....and I'll assume for the moment that you're not one of our resident bored flamers with too much time on their hands today. Chances are if "you can't stand the Welsh folks..." you're a bigot, and the only fun you'll have around here is being a nuisance. On the other hand if it's the "Welsh FolkSONGS" you can't stand, that's a different kettle of fish. Folks are always venting around here. Some of us occasionally swear, we often name names, and in some situations we place our feet squarely in our mouths! Being a Mudcatter can often mean removing swallow'd feet! Rick |
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 23 May 00 - 12:59 PM Well, noone can stop you. But as Mmario indicates, you'd probably get some adverse comment. Racism isn't too popular, I suspect and hope, among Mudcatters.
However I assume that was just an imaginary example picked out at random, rather than a genuine one. The underlying principle I think is that what is best to do is primarily
to use the Mudcat to find out information about your particular interests,
to share your enthusiasms and your discoveries, and also (I would say, but some would disagree) to discuss and explore various other topics of interest with people with whom you are united by a shared interest in folk music, which can transcend disagreements about some other things. |
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: IvanB Date: 23 May 00 - 01:01 PM I'd echo Rick's comments 100% with one small addition: Have you made any attempt to communicate your dissatisfaction to the DJ in Question? |
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 23 May 00 - 01:09 PM Now if it was Irish language songs Mrbisok was objecting to from a Texas DJ, I think he might have a pretty rough time of it on the Mudcat... |
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: catspaw49 Date: 23 May 00 - 01:16 PM I've run across "Mrbisok a time or two and I think he's straight. The first thing I'd do is join. Then feel free to express your opinion. The main taboo here is personal attack. I think the place has some amount of racism and bigotry, but much less than the 3-D world, so you're going to anger a lot of folks if you express racist beliefs. But from what I've seen of Mrbisok, I don't think that's what he meant....just poorly worded. Spaw |
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: Joe Offer Date: 23 May 00 - 01:22 PM I dunno. What's the use of being nasty? If you've got ideas and can present and defend them and help somebody learn something, that's great. If you disagree with somebody and can logically and strongly present your point of view, that's great. But nasty? That gets tedious very quickly. Downright boring. If you'd like to post something here, try to make it something that will be interesting to the people who are likely to read it. -Joe Offer- |
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: kendall Date: 23 May 00 - 01:36 PM If your problem is with a dj in Texas, what is the point of venting your spleen here? |
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: catspaw49 Date: 23 May 00 - 01:47 PM Kendall??? Is that you? LMAO...........Wanna' tell us more about your transmission, or Chryslers, or your printer??????? I love ya' man................ Spaw |
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: Gary T Date: 23 May 00 - 02:43 PM I sense that perhaps Harold meant negative more than nasty. As anywhere, being overly negative gets a bit hard to take, but then being all "Pollyanna and sunshine" can also get wearisome eventually. A light touch, where appropriate, and basic respect for others will usually make even negative comments acceptable. Then there's nasty and there's NASTY. I would venture that most of us would be OK with some reasonably well-tempered nastiness (in its various senses), but don't see any place for intense nastiness here. |
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: JenEllen Date: 23 May 00 - 02:53 PM Have to agree with Kendall, if venting is all you want, find a nice room with a drain in the floor and go at it. If you have ideas for creative solutions to this problem, or would like some, then you are in the right place!
1) Tell the DJ to give it a rest Anyone else????? |
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: wysiwyg Date: 23 May 00 - 02:57 PM Well, see, nasty is OK with me as long as you realize that I pray for and love nasty folks extra special strongly, so see, that will have to be OK with you! ~Susan~ |
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: Popular Halfwit Date: 23 May 00 - 03:06 PM Hello Mrbisok. As a relative newcomer to Mudcat myself i can appreciate your concern as regards "stepping on peoples toes". This evening i'm suprvising a group of lads in our school Computer room and i've got one eye on my screen and the other six on theirs making sure they don't go "astray" on the web. It could be said that your hypothetical Texan is exercising his right to promote his kind of music and i imagine that you would be inclined to encourage him in expressing himself freely and would no doubt be "stepping on the toes" of those who might prevent him doing so. It's been my experience on Mudcat (just as in any boardroom diningroom or shopfloor) you will find personalities which tend to dominate and bully and whose "toes"(if not ego's) are ripe for stepping on. No doubt when and if you feel compelled to do some "toe stepping" i'm confident that you will do so in the sensitive manner in which you presented your question. Apart from this,McGrath presented the "Mudcat protocol" in his usual succinct manner. Cheers !
|
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: kendall Date: 23 May 00 - 04:58 PM Actually Spaw, the reason I mentioned the car is because it has a superior sound system, and, Rick sounds extra good on it. wanna hear about my wheelbarrow? |
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: wysiwyg Date: 23 May 00 - 05:36 PM k-- Izzat what you use instead of paying a roadie? ~S~ |
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: katlaughing Date: 23 May 00 - 07:19 PM Harold, one way that some of us do handle the desire or need to vent on here is by using the html designation We all do get up on our soapboxes at time, but the majority try to be sensitive about *udder Mudders* feelings, too....well usually. While the forum is pretty freewheeling, you should expect to hear about other opinions which may differ from your own. Just in case your first posting wasn't hypothetical, we do have members in Wales and/or of Welsh descent. Nice of you to ask and I am sure this will continue to be an interesting discussion. BTW, when I didn't like what they did to the format of our local NPR station, I emailed the general manager and the programming director. Nothing like taking it to the top; worth a try at least. katlaughing |
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 23 May 00 - 07:35 PM "we do have members in Wales and/or of Welsh descent" - if we didn't I can't see that would make any difference. All for one and one for all... "udder Mudders" - we just had a lengthy thread about that kind of thing...
|
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: katlaughing Date: 23 May 00 - 07:56 PM Kevin, I only mentioned that so he'd know he would probably get flack if he decided to bitch about Welsh folk and/or music. As for "udder Mudders" we had a long, long thread about what to call ourselves about a year and a half ago, and that was a particular one that we had fun with that I came up with which meant no offense. Which recent thread are you talking about, Kevin? Thanks, kat |
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: wysiwyg Date: 23 May 00 - 08:01 PM Could be he means the Breast threads? ~S~ |
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: Jon Freeman Date: 23 May 00 - 08:02 PM Harold, I'd simply go back to your question, i.e. "is nasty OK too?". If you see what you are posting as being nasty, I reckon it is just down to your nature whether you post it or not. Jon |
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: Irish sergeant Date: 23 May 00 - 08:03 PM It isn't my place to assign place. If you don't like the Welsh that is probably something best not aired. If you don't like Welsh folk music say on. You might offend people who like Welsh music but as long as you're polite and not bigotted about it you'll do all right . Just be prepared for the inevitable intellectual debate that will assuredly follow. And welcome to mudcat should you decide to join Neil |
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: katlaughing Date: 23 May 00 - 08:54 PM Thanks, Praise, I just *got it*! |
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: catspaw49 Date: 23 May 00 - 09:28 PM Really kat???? Hell, I thought you already had boobs. Spaw |
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: Rick Fielding Date: 23 May 00 - 09:40 PM These usually go the same way don't they? Prickly post. They go away. Then we talk to ourselves for three days. Rick |
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: SINSULL Date: 23 May 00 - 09:58 PM No nasty isn't OK. There's a whole world full of nasty out there. I don't want it in here. (Nasty, overbearing bitch that I am). Say what you have to say with a modicum of respect and you'll be OK without being nasty. |
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: catspaw49 Date: 23 May 00 - 09:58 PM Yeah they do Rick...But I really thought this guy was/is legit.......I'd seen a couple of other posts of his and I think he likes the joint.....I may be wrong.......usually am.......... Spaw |
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: GUEST,Mrbisok@aol Date: 23 May 00 - 10:38 PM Yeah, I do like the joint and don't wanna go away or be chased off. Also, I don't wanna bomb, so I'm asking about rules so I can play. |
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: catspaw49 Date: 23 May 00 - 10:45 PM Holy shit........I was right about something..........Rick, write this date down. Hey bisok....Join up!! We won't run you off. We get into these discussions all the time. Great group around here and I frankly appreciate your interest in "learning the ropes"......We're glad to have you here. Research some old threads and you'll get some more of the flavor of the place. Spaw |
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: GUEST,Mrbisok@aol Date: 23 May 00 - 10:55 PM to catspaw49 Yeah, thanx. I feel encouraged. And so to bed.--Harold from Hawthorne |
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: katlaughing Date: 24 May 00 - 12:18 AM Well, I said thanks for asking. Don't I get any credit for being half-way nice?? And,I mean, Spaw is just trying to make brownie points...he can be awful nasty hisself sometimes!**BG**=**BIG GRIN** or TIC=Tongue In Cheek And, yeah, Spaw, I DO!!!LOL Rick, this one can be the "Mrbisok, M'cat came back" proving Spaw right for once! And, a welcome change formt hose that never do return. Welcome, Mrbisok, to the Mudcat Cafe! katlaughing |
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 24 May 00 - 04:28 PM The bottom line is, you can be nasty, but only if you're nice about it... |
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: Jeri Date: 24 May 00 - 04:46 PM Mrbisok, you can whine all you want, but you won't get a whole lot of sympathy for having to listen to traditional music you don't like. I suspect some folks would like to be able to listen to any kind of traditional music. You'll also get into a lot of trouble saying you don't like all the people from or living in a certain country. We're as likely to have as many Welsh Mudcatters as Texans. You're not required to be free of bigotry/prejudice when it comes to people, but you'll get a lot of flak if you post those opinions, ignorant of the fact they're hurtful. You can get away with being chauvanistic toward a certain type of music. I can enjoy songs in different languages, but have a definite preference toward those in English, because I can understand the words. As far as getting people to rally to your cause - it would be more effective to do something locally if there are others in your area who think the DJ is playing too much of a certain type of music. You might want to just post a request for people who are dissatisfied with the show to contact you personally. You also may be better off with a positive slant - not "less Welsh music," but "more (whatever) music." |
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: wysiwyg Date: 24 May 00 - 05:01 PM Well, HfH, of course if you join as a member, you will get a personal page, and then if you do something that REALLY pisses someone off, they can have the option of messaging you tactfully (!!) there or roasting you in the thread or whatever. I mean, things just get handled... or ignored... usually. It just makes an enormous difference, I think, when stuff shot from the hip comes from a member instead of a guest. The gang here seems to respond more helpfully when membership lends that air of credibility and responsibility. But ultimately you have to decide for yourself how you want to communicate and how you want others to think of you. See, even though there are many more members here now than might have first been expected or experienced, it is still a pretty small community. When you poop on the floor, it doesn't take long for the stink to bother a lot of people. And it stays in the thread, to be seen anytime the thread is refreshed. What seems to work best is, try to say your stuff in such a fashion that you would be comfortable saying it in person. For we Mudcatters have an awful habit of getting together in person when possible! Just remember that sometime, you may sit next to someone and want to swap songs, who disagrees with your viewpoints. Be a good sport about not making that any harder than necessary without giving up your own viewpoints. And remember that we cannot see each other's facial expression, body language, nor hear tone of voice... } : ~ *)> A kiss on the cheek for asking before blasting! ~S~ |
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: kendall Date: 24 May 00 - 06:20 PM Old Maine proverb.. Profanity is the effort of a feeble mind to express itself. |
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: Terry K Date: 25 May 00 - 02:06 AM I guess it depends where you come from. Here in the UK we English will fight to the death to preserve our God-given right to hate the Welsh, the Welsh to preserve their right to like everyone, the Scots their right to hate everyone (but will gang up with anyone who can help them to hate the English even more). And please don't bring the Irish into it or there'll be hell to pay. And as for the French......and Geordies....... |
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 25 May 00 - 05:34 AM The essential thing with being Irish is you'd prefer to be friends with everyone. Especially including whatever enemies you feel compelled to have. |
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 25 May 00 - 08:09 AM Or as Percy French put it (in MOUNTAINS OF MOURNE):
We'll be much better friends than we've been heretofore |
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: GUEST,sian in wales Date: 25 May 00 - 08:31 AM Now, now Terry K. - we Welsh don't like *everyone*. As in rugby ... we support two teams - Wales, and anyone playing England. (And I'm not gonna rise to Mrbisok's original post, whether or not it's hypothetical ... there's an undercurrent there which is a bit ....?) Re: the response he might have had if he'd chosen the Irish for his hypothesis, there's many as says that the Welsh are just Irish who didn't learn to swim... Hey, we love the Irish too; they live next door and are great fun at parties, but it's a bit wearing when people go on about Celtic music when they actually only mean Irish and Scottish. sian |
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: Jon Freeman Date: 25 May 00 - 08:43 AM Well Terry K I am English (born in Shrewsbury) but I have managed to live in Wales most of my life (since 1978 this time round) and the Welsh aren't too bad really ;-) Sian, there have been times when I have played Welsh folk dance music and found local Welsh people thinking it is Irish! Seems to me that many in my part of North Wales don't know that particular tradition exists. Jon |
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: SDShad Date: 25 May 00 - 09:09 AM McGrath wrote: "The essential thing with being Irish is you'd prefer to be friends with everyone. Especially including whatever enemies you feel compelled to have." Reminds me just a bit of an Irish toast or blessing or whatnot that I heard years ago, and long ago forgot the source: May those who love us, love us. As for those who do not love us, may the Good Lord turn their hearts. And if He cannot turn their hearts, then at least may He turn their ankles, so that we may know them by their limping. Shad |
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: GUEST,sian in Wales Date: 25 May 00 - 09:42 AM Jon Who knows what comes from where? Like, the Irish Washerwoman was written by a Welshman for Eliz.I (orig. tune: Sidanen). The Dance tunes were from ALL over, including original Welsh. I've just finished reading a booklet on American tunes, mostly from the mid 1800s, which are (now) firmly entrenched in the Welsh repetoir, and most Welsh people think they're Welsh-born-and-bred. Nos Galan (Deck the Halls) is Welsh, and people assume the words are too, but they were probably written by an American (but possibly a Welsh American). Whew. Herein lies the pitfall of knocking one nation or another. Ya take a swipe at, *for instance*, Welsh music, and you find out you've just maligned the Irish. Oops. Oh. And St. Patrick was Welsh, and Guiness was invented by the Welsh. So there! sian in wales |
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: Sailor Dan Date: 25 May 00 - 05:08 PM No one but an Irishman could have made that heavenly brew. After all who said that a welchman is just an irishman who didnt learn to swim. The only place Guinnness could be made is Ireland and only by an Irishman. If the brewmaster was originally a Welchman swimmer he became Irish when he landed so there. Guinness was made by an Irishman. Praise your explanation is right on target. Shad I have that saying on my refrigerator. I keep toasting it and telling it some names to take action on. Sometimes it even works. Slainte and pour another pint please Dan |
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: GUEST,PooBah891 Date: 25 May 00 - 07:30 PM Certainly we are all entitled to our opinions. That also includes the on air people. So, then the question is this: why listen to things you don't like? You won't change the programming. But, there is programming somewhere in the ether for you. Whatever that may be. Criticism is always good, and well received if it is constructive. That means criticism from one who appreciates what is being offered and wants to help improve it. It may well be that one of the finest inventions after radio was the dial---and the ability to change stations. Why do I get the distinct impression that "Welsh" and "Texas" are representations of something quite different from Mr Bisok---say something further east and of a different land. PooBah891
|
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 25 May 00 - 08:05 PM "We Welsh don't like *everyone" - well, I think it's possible that Terri K was being ironic in saying that you do. One common slander against the Welsh is that they have a distrust tending towards dislike of strangers. Like all stereotypes, there's just enough truth in it to make it an effective lie.
Thinking back to the first post I was reminded of the film Good Morning, Vietnam where the butt of the plot was the man who wanted to pay polkas on the radio instead of rock. I'd have liked to hear more polkas myself, but it appeared that the troops didn't.
I get this vision of puzzled cowboys listening to Male Voice Choirs from the valleys, whie a dedicated DJ exiled from the Black Mountains holds out in a barricaded studio as the Texas Rangers come to get him. Sounds like our kind of guy.
|
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: Rick Fielding Date: 26 May 00 - 12:44 AM Well you Welshers are OK with me McGrath, 'cause I'm listening to your songs (and enjoying them) right now. Thanks Mate. Rick |
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: Lonesome EJ Date: 26 May 00 - 02:27 AM Well, in Kentucky we were raised to see through stereotypes and not prejudge people like the Welsh. I am a great fan of the Welsh, in fact my wife and I have something called a "Welsh Love Spoon" that hangs on the wall looking like an imprisoned salad utensil. I love the long names of their towns, think their singing is terrific, and am an admirer of the quaint conical hats their women-folk wear. Long live the Welsh say I. |
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: sian, west wales Date: 26 May 00 - 04:41 AM LOVE LOVE LOVE the imprisoned salad utensil!!!! (And I too was being ironic, McGrath. Must learn to use more smilies!) 8-] Now that we're all friends again, you're all invited over to my place for a Guiness (invented somewhere like Llanrwst, N.Wales at a coaching stop for the Irish ferry coach x number of centuries ago, if you believe our National paper) and bara brith. Just don't all come at once. pob bendith sian |
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 26 May 00 - 07:06 AM Oh, I'm far from Welsh, Rick. London Irish, now Harlow Irish.
Glad you like the songs.
"It's a bit wearing when people go on about Celtic music when they actually only mean Irish and Scottish." (sian) -I don't like the term Celtic music. As sian says,normally when people use it they mean Gaelic music, and that's a better term, because there's a commonality between Scottishn and Irish music and culture which makes it meaningful.
Lumping Welsh and Breton music in with this because of pretty remote linguistic connections a few thousand years ago doesn't make much sense. Paradoxicallly its effect seems to be to marginalise Welsh music, which doesn't deserve to be marginalised. |
|
Subject: RE: Mudcat protocol: is nasty OK too? From: Jon Freeman Date: 26 May 00 - 08:10 AM Sian, it is a good point about what comes from where and I reckon every nation has been influenced by another somewhere along the line. The only thing I will say with Welsh dance music is that to me, it feels more English, possibly even Northumbrian, than it does Scottish or Irish. I'd not heard the Guinness tale but I can assure you that wherever it was invented, the Guinness tastes better in Dublin than it does in Llanwrst (and I think anywhere else outside of Ireland). Jon |
| Share Thread: |