Drunken Sailor song protested

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: Gurney
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 03:30 AM

What Q said is exactly right, I checked in my copy of SftSS, but I also had chats with Stan about shanties, and SOMEONE did tell me that Drunken Sailor was, as I said, "One of the two shanties that were allowed to be sung on RN ships". This is a 35 year old memory, and I can't be sure who said it, but that was the phrase.
Sorry, McGrath, I never did know the other. A nice red herring for the erudite to chase.

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Apr 05 - 02:29 PM

What Hugill said-
Drunken Sailor- "This is a typical example of the stamp-'n'-go song or walkaway or runaway shanty, and was the only type of work-song allowed in the King's Navee."

In other words, Hugill was referring to a type of shanty, not particular songs. Stan Hugill, "Shanties from the Seven Seas," 1961 (and reprints), p. 108.

He explained further in 1969 that these were played by fifers and fiddlers when heaving up the anchor aboard naval vessels, but there was NO singing at the chore. "Nancy Dawson," "Drops of Brandy," and "Off She Goes" were played (reference given).
Whall was the source of the statement about "Drunken Sailor" and "Nancy Dawson" being sung on revenue cutters and smaller fighting craft, but Hugill says there is no literary proof of this.
Stan Hugill, 1969, "Shanties and Sailors' Songs," pp. 9-10.

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: GUEST,McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Apr 05 - 11:38 AM

What was the other one, Gurney? Spanish Ladies? (And was he talking about singing as a forebitter, or being allowed to use as a shanty?)

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: Gurney
Date: 21 Apr 05 - 05:36 AM

Dick Greenhaus, 2 years ago! asked: is it a naval shanty.
Well, I'm not a buff, but yes, according to Stan Hugill, it is one of the two shanties that were sung on HMShips

Can't remember if I remember this from conversation with him or reading one of his books, but I do remember it, if you see what I mean.

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Apr 05 - 03:26 PM

In Japan in the 1870s, in the "Yokohama dialect," the word for sailor was dammuraisu, or "damn your eyes."

The ...red-faced foreigners in Japan, who drink brandy out of tumblers, and then in drunken fury roam the streets of Yokohama and nagasaki are not infrequently compared to the intoxicated monster beheaded by Raiko [children's fireside story]."
"The Japanese child .... is amazed at the great size of the mugs and drinking glasses ... from which the men of red beards and faces drink a liquid ten times stronger than saké."

W. E. Griffis, 1876, "The Mikado's Empire," Harper & Bros. NY, p. 493.

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: GUEST,Uncle DaveO
Date: 20 Apr 05 - 12:40 PM

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: Flash Company
Date: 20 Apr 05 - 12:05 PM

Peter Grey---
Now Peter went away out west to seek his fort-i-an,
Where he was given great support by a Native Amer-i-can

I'll go now!

FC

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: GUEST,Melani
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 05:38 PM

John Chreokee=John Native American
John Kanaka=John Polynesian Peasant
Did I miss anyone?

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: EBarnacle
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 11:23 AM

Sorry, Melani, that should have been "John the Polynesian Peasant."

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: Muttley
Date: 18 Apr 05 - 08:37 PM

This is unbelievable: How about this offering.

What shall we do with the righteous PC's
What shall we do with the righteous PC's
What shall we do with the righteous PC's
From the the Hartford PTA group

Send 'em all on a luxury sea cruise
Send 'em all on a luxury sea cruise
Send 'em all on a luxury sea cruise
On the ship 'Titanic'

PC is running stupidly rampant. I was 'reamed a few years ago by my boss for holding a door open for a couple of ladies exiting a building behind me (it was a 'welfare' office whose staff are predominantly rampant PC and feministic) - we'd been to a meeting there.
I listened politely to his diatribe and then cheerfully told him to "Go %#@!! himself" as the action had been drilled into me as politeness, courtesy and good manners by my mother and as long as I had breath in my body I would continue to do it - no matter HOW much he objected. Besides if I hold a door open for a woman and she abuses me for it; she's just as likely to be informed of her boorish rudeness and tossed BACK it.

The PC world is a TERRIBLY confusing place to a blunt-spoken Asperger who calls it as they see it. I try to be polite at all times, but PC just confuses the bejeebers outta me.

John

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: GUEST,Allen
Date: 18 Apr 05 - 12:35 PM

In Amsterdam There Lived a Liberated Modern Woman With Progressive Views on Lifestyle Choices

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: GUEST,Allen
Date: 18 Apr 05 - 12:18 PM

The Evil Ecology-Destroying Whale-Murdering Ship the Diamond.

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: Micca
Date: 06 Nov 03 - 02:30 PM

From my own time in the Merchant Navy and my contact with a real shantyman (Bless you, Bert Gray, where ever you are) I recall, his contention was that "Drunken Sailor" was a virtuoso piece for shantymen, always started with a few standard verses then used as a platform to show off the shantymans skill at improvising verses, especialy about fellow crew mwmbers and with lots of "local colour" and in jokes, and in his (Bert's)honour, on the rare ocassions I sing it, I have tried to do the same.

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: Melani
Date: 06 Nov 03 - 02:00 PM

At my daughter's Bat Mitzvah, there was a final prayer to end the service which is tradionally sung to diffent tunes, the tune being selected especially for the Bar/Bat Mitvah kid to reflect their interests and honor them on this special occasion in their lives. My daughter sang it to the tune of "The Drunken Sailor," and the rabbi was absolutely on the floor in hysterics.

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: Jeanie
Date: 06 Nov 03 - 04:16 AM

I missed this thread first time round. Where will this craziness end ? I have been banned twice (so far) from having children sing certain songs. A song for Palm Sunday, "Here Comes Jesus Riding on a Donkey", is sung to the tune of "Drunken Sailor" - this was banned, because the tune was considered too offensive to be sung in a church. (The children loved it).

Last Christmas, one of the songs in my school's production of Dylan Thomas' "A Child's Christmas in Wales" was removed at the last minute by the "thought police" because it happened to say good things about drinking parsnip wine. (The children loved it).

A friend who teaches drama in a similar (independent prep) school came across exactly the same thing with her production of Dickens' "A Christmas Carol". What are we both giving them this year ? Straight Bible readings from Genesis through to John. No more, no less. No-one can take offence at that. (In a State school, they probably would, though). I hope the children love it. Hmmmm.....


- jeanie

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 06 Nov 03 - 12:14 AM

Odd thing about Drunken Sailor--It seems to be a stamp-and-go shanty. Which implies a very large crew. Which suggests a naval vessel. But I'm told that shantying was forbidden on naval vessels.

Any shanty buffs care to enlighten me?

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: Noreen
Date: 05 Nov 03 - 09:53 PM

Thanks for refreshing this, Heather, it's a classic thread.

Still smiling at Greenland Trout Fisheries, chanteyranger :0)

Financially dependent senior citizen horse?

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: Heely
Date: 05 Nov 03 - 06:43 PM

As a Sea Chantey performer and a High School Choral Director - I have loved this link. Thanks for the great Laughs. Now you know what we deal with everyday.

So. . . .what do you think about every Kindergarten - college in America playing Elgar's "Pomp and Circumstance" at every graduation. It was written to honor England ruling the world and celebrating the success in India. Didn't we fight a war or two against England for our independance?(1776 and-1812 for those who forgot) Figure that one out? My Irish and Scottish and Austalian heritage is offended. Heely

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: Blackcatter
Date: 05 Nov 03 - 06:06 PM

How in the hell do these old threads become resurrected?

This disappeared 3 1/2 years ago.

That being said, I tohught it was funny that people had a problem about the drinking in the song and not the physical abuse carried on throughout the song.

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: Wolfgang
Date: 05 Nov 03 - 05:53 PM

If we do not find a version that is definitely PC we still can fall back on singing one that is defiantly PC.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: Dead Horse
Date: 05 Nov 03 - 05:05 PM

Charley, that version is definately PC.

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: swampy-the-spark
Date: 05 Nov 03 - 04:57 PM

i spose we could definently NOT sing about the blackball line?

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: Charley Noble
Date: 05 Nov 03 - 12:06 PM

Dave Oesterreich-

You're repeating yourself, old man! BG

Wonder how them parents in Conard would interpret this potentially obscene verse:

Boot 'im up and wipe his hard drive,
Boot 'im up and wipe his hard drive,
Boot 'im up and wipe his hard drive,
Ear-ly in the morning!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Nov 03 - 11:09 AM

"cave men were so violent with each other"

That's stereotyping. For all we know they were gentle as hippies. Eating fruit and nuts and all that and sitting round blazing hemp fires and relating, and playing flutes and digeridoos.

"Wow, man - that thing you're painting on the cave wall. Far Out!"

Meanwhile the cavewomen might have been out chasing mammoths...

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 05 Nov 03 - 10:55 AM

Back in the dear, dead, days beyond recall when I was a sort-of mountain climber, we would sing What shall we do with a drunken climber?

As you may imagine, a drunken climber is as high on the undesirability list as a drunken sailor on watch.

This had great punishments, like, "Feed him prunes on a five-day backpack", and "Give him slack when he calls for tension", and "Wrap his crampons in his air mattress."

Not too much there, I suppose for someone to complain about. I suppose someone might take umbrage about the prunes.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: Amos
Date: 05 Nov 03 - 10:26 AM

Some people can face reality, and some canna, I reckon. Protesting a rowdy sailing song from the 1800's is like being upset because cave men were so violent with each other. Geeze Louise, people!! :>)

A

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: GUEST,Heather
Date: 05 Nov 03 - 10:15 AM

I have to say, I find this particular thing very amusing - I just graduated from a highschool in southwestern Connecticut, and last year our choir sang that song. Now, loving the song like I do, when I saw that the version we had was missing some of my favorite verses (namely - shave his belly with a rusty razor) I went right to the director, showed him all these other verses, and he loved them and went ahead and added them in. It's odd how totally different the reactions were up at Conard!

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: Melani
Date: 27 May 00 - 10:55 PM

You forget John Native American.

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 27 May 00 - 03:31 AM

Okay, here are the contents to the new publication, The Conard Book of Chanteys for All Occasions:

Root Beer Johnny; The Good Ship Ven..er..Lollipop; Whup Boy Scout Jamboree; So Early In The Morning The Sailor Loves His Waffle-O; The Senior Citizen Moke Pickin' On A Banjo; New York Women, Do You Not Know How To Dance The Polka?; Greenland Trout Fisheries. Any additions, Mudcatters?

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: GUEST,Ole Bull
Date: 26 May 00 - 12:59 PM

Hey yoou guys;

Make fun all you want but this doesn't appear any different to me than all you Mudcatters who, in other links, wanted to ban or censor any old song that makes most any reference what so ever to black people or slaves.

And speakin' of Drunkin' Sailors, isn't "Blow the Man Down" even more offensive? Especially if you consider it's first cousin, the song "Knock a Nigger Down," (one of the songs that may deserved to be knocked down). Although no-body complains about the later folkies that converted the suject from a black to a preacher (Some folks say a ---- won't steal,.....)

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 May 00 - 09:20 PM

An odd song to pick on. I always get the suspicion that in this kind of situation there's someone manipulating things behind the scenes. "Now if we can get someone to ask for a ban on this it'll really make the PC crowd look stupid."

Mind there are shanties that you'd use cautiously. Whip Jamboree, to which I posted a link at the start of this thread, used to have different sets of verses according to whether there were female pasengers on board or not, according to Stan Hugill. And he had verses to "In Amsterdam there lived a maid" that he'd never put in print, and I don't blame him.

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: Penny S.
Date: 25 May 00 - 04:33 PM

I went to get my copy of Heard it in the Playground, to find it had joined the Potter books down the worm hole. So Ahlberg has made a new sale, which modifies my attitude to putting it here.

Chorus: What shall we do with the grumpy teacher? (x3)
Early in the morning.

Hang her on a hook behind the classroom door.
Tie her up and leave her in the PE store.
Make her be with Derek Drew for evermore,
Early....

Please, Miss, we're only joking, Don't mean to be provoking. How come your ears are smoking? Early...

Chorus

Send him out to duty when the sleet is sleeting. Keep him after school to take a parent's meeting. Stand him in the hall to watch the children eating, Early...

Please, Sir, we're only teasing, Don't mean to be displeasing. Help - that's our necks your squeezing! Early...

Chorus

Tickle her toes with a hairy creature. Leave her in the jungle where the ants can reach her. BRING HER BACK ALIVE TO BE A CLASSROOM TEACHER! Early - in the - morning!

Allan Ahlberg 1989 Puffin Books ISBN 0-14-032824-6

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: Sailor Dan
Date: 25 May 00 - 03:37 PM

Sean M

They would not be able to live with the installation of a plexiotomy, It would be take away there shitty outlook on life. Then what would they complain about. The pain in there necks???? LOL

Dan

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: Petr
Date: 25 May 00 - 03:23 PM

I know Someone beat me to it but this is the version I heard.

put him in charge of an Exxon tanker 3x on the Alaskan coastline.

petr

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: SeanM
Date: 25 May 00 - 02:35 PM

To Sailor Dan's call for compassion for victims of Rectalcranialinversion, I answer:

There is hope! A recent procedure has been developed, "plexiotomy", wherein a portion of the abdomen is replaced with a clear plexiglass sheet so that the sufferer can still see with their head lodged up their rectum.

Levity... A full time job.

M

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: Penny S.
Date: 25 May 00 - 02:14 PM

Copyright problem, I think.

However.

It is now 19.08 GMT. I have spent over an hour running two versions of scandisk and defrag on a hard disk that reports problems on booting, but then doesn't have any. The virus scanner reprots nothing. I have put the thing right three times now this week. Tomorrow we have inservice training on boosting self esteem and circle time. If the computer had not now just finished running its stuff, I would have gone and got the book, which I recommend. It has a number of poems set to tunes.

eg. Goodbye old school (to Goodbye old Paint) In the classroom sits a teacher The bell is ringing, for school to begin The teacher and the children should be friends

and my favourite, which demands to be sung

I've got the teach them in the morning Playground duty Teach them in the afternoon blues....

and to be sung now.

Anyway, I've got to get home and eat and write reports.

I'll pick up the book on the way, and see what I can do - it does invite improvistion, though, doesn't it?

Penny

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: Bert
Date: 25 May 00 - 01:47 PM

Got any more verses of that version Penny?

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: Penny S.
Date: 25 May 00 - 01:39 PM

Allan Ahlberg has a version they might approve.

What shall we do with the grumpy teacher?...

In "Heard it in the playground"; it suggests a series of appropriate punishments. Keep him in at lunch to watch the children eating, that sort of thing. Children just love it.

Penny

Don't know about that sort of teacher though.

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 25 May 00 - 11:59 AM

Hic..Burp... scuse me mates... just cant seem to stand up straight and steer a straight course at all must be all the booze I drank...Hypersensitivity and Political correctness are forms of censorship by stupid people. They create a society full of rancour, but devoid of spirit. The sooner it stops the better. Yours, Aye. Dave

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: Peg
Date: 25 May 00 - 11:52 AM

Amos; I like that idea! Certainly any public protest of the baning of the song in question should include performances of the song in question...in full costume of course...

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 25 May 00 - 11:43 AM

MANY years ago, when I climbed mountains, we had a version of this song:

What shall we do with the drunken climber? (3X)
Feed him slack when he asks for tension
Ear-lye etc.

Feed him prunes on a five-day backpack

Wrap his crampons in his air mattress

and some othe lines I disremember now.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: Wesley S
Date: 25 May 00 - 11:32 AM

Trust me there arn't going to be any alcoholics in the audience to offend if there are any bars open at the time. So it really doesn't matter.

Also on the PC front - a local theater group put on a stage adaption of the "Maltese Falcon" a few years ago and cast a black man as Sam Spade. You can imagine the phone calls they got on that one.

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: Amos
Date: 25 May 00 - 11:00 AM

Peg, your approach is certainly more rationale and more economical. And might be more effective. But I like the idea of swamping them with jolly walkers. It'd be a helluva lot more fun! We could deck 'em up in sailor suits, like, and have them do a chorus line singing naughty sea-songs...

A

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: Mark Clark
Date: 25 May 00 - 10:52 AM

Well at last we have the explanation for the widely publicized shortage of corn cobs! We now know where each of them has gone. It's offensive to have this sort unmitigated prudishness given a label that includes the word correct.

"Drunken Sailor" has always been one of my favioite songs. My children and grandchildren learned that one at an early age. I wonder how these folks would like another favorite of mine, "Sam Hall"?

I read in the paper yesterday that some group in Boston has determined that all the G-rated films are actually too violent for children. I suppose we can forget about singing "Pretty Polly," "Ommie Wise" and "Little Joe The Wrangler" any more.

Looks as though the US needs another Free Speech Movement, what's going on at Berkley these days?

Grumble, grumble, gripe,

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 May 00 - 10:27 AM

A quote I've seen attributed to Frank Zappa might be appropriate here; hope I have it correctly:

"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute this. I say there is much more stupidity than hydrogen, and THAT is the basic building block of the universe."

Best, Greg

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: Peg
Date: 25 May 00 - 10:00 AM

I am reminded of when I was working at an art cinema theatre in Northampton, MA a few years ago...yes, the Happy Valley, as they call it, is a bastion of kneejerk liberalism (which I don't mind so much) but even more so a bastion of kneejerk political correctness (which really got on my nerves sometimes)...and even the local movie house felt the ripples of it...at the theatre we were playing a French film called "How to Make Love to a Negro without Getting Tired" and the title referred to the book written by a black man (Isaak de Bankole, of Chocolat and Night on Earth) about his own exploits. It is a controversial title but the film itslelf since the main character understands the irony and stereotyping in his use of these words, is actually rather sweet and inoffensive, execpt that this guy does have a tendency to use women sexually but they all love him and it is a silly romantic comedy so everyone is happy...

But we got calls at the theatre and people threatening to boycott us and everything else you could imagine. One woman who called was all righteous and indignant. She said "I can't believe you're playing this film at your theatre." And I asked "Why?" and she said, blustering, "It is racist, and sexist." I asked, "Ma'am, have you seen this film?" and she said "No." And I asked "Then how do you know it's racist and sexist?" "Well I can tell by the title." I said "So it's the title you object to, not the film." She hung uop eventually, rather upset that I did not want to listen to her rant and rave about how racist and sexist the management of my workplace was...

I submit that many of the parents protesting this wonderful old song have not even bothered to look at the lyrics. I also submit that nary a one of them understands that it is very educational and enriching for school children to sing songs which have historical and cultural relevance...when I was in school our choir director loved that genre of songs known as "Negro Spirituals." We sang them often. These days, I wonder how many music teachers who love this music think twice about having their kids perform them simply because the historically-customary name of this song category is offensive to people...

In the meantime, letters to the Globe might do something...it was an AP story, I believe, and letters to the school would probably be even more effective...there were lots of letters about the "West Side Story" debacle in Amherst...

That's Conard High Scool in West Hartford, CT. The phone number is 860-521-3610.
Their mailing address is:
Conard High School
110 Berkshire Road
West Hartford, CT 06107

Tell 'em Peg sent ya. ;)

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: SDShad
Date: 25 May 00 - 09:42 AM

I can't imagine cutting "shave his belly with a rusty razor"! I sing that one with a kind of gravely voice to indicate how rough the shave might be--and every kid in the audience is usually giggling before I finish the first line!

That's too risque? Yeesh!

Praise, I'm gonna have to add "Plan an intervention and sober his ass up" to my version. To by followed by "get him to admit that he has a problem," of course. And Rick and Gypsy--I added the Exxon verse years ago. Always a crowd-pleaser. Another one we added years ago was:

I don't know what to do with a drunken sailor
I don't know what to do with a drunken sailor
I don't know what to do with a drunken sailor
Earl-eye in the mornin'

Must be half-spoken-half-sung in a rambling, rushing, drunken slur, so as to be barely intelligible and to fit into the line since it doesn't scan quite right....

Shad

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: Hollowfox
Date: 25 May 00 - 09:17 AM

Thanks, Sailor Dan. Now I know the formal medical term fro cerebral hemorrhoids.

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: Sailor Dan
Date: 25 May 00 - 07:14 AM

First of all, you people here on the mudcat must have compassion, Please.

Those parents who went to the school to complain suffer from a very serious disease. The all suffer from whatis know as "Rectalcranialinversion." Please feel compassion. I mean after all how would you like it if you had your head stuck up your ass and all you could see was brown. It might just give you a shitty outlook on life.

Coming from the Big CIty of NY. West Side story is about the Puerto Rican Influence vs the Irish/Italian etc faction on the upper West Side of Manhattan in the areas of West 80's to West 110th area. In the 1950 & 1960 era the situation as depicted wasn't far off the actual truth.

Subject: RE: Drunken Sailor song protested
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 25 May 00 - 05:07 AM

Sean M's idea of an explanation of the meaning of the song would have been much better than some disclaimer, Sean's being just an honest presentation of what the song is about. This whole controversy is an embarrasment. I hate to think what would happen if this highly constricting level of PC became majority opinion. This is sheer puritanism. Reminds me of the time someone complained that "John Cherokee" was insulting to Native American Indians! This person was totally misinformed of the meaning of the song and of the ethnicity of John Cherokee (West Indies). Same thing happening in MA: PC based on misinformation. On top of all this, kids LOVE to sing this chantey. It's rousing, easy, and very fun. They are not concerned with whether it promotes alcholism. Only adults think that's what children are thinking.