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Help: Flamenco Guitars

GUEST,Andy 28 May 00 - 09:14 PM
John in Brisbane 29 May 00 - 12:18 AM
Rick Fielding 29 May 00 - 11:00 AM
GUEST,Andy 29 May 00 - 08:47 PM
John in Brisbane 29 May 00 - 09:52 PM
Mooh 29 May 00 - 09:54 PM
catspaw49 29 May 00 - 10:42 PM
GUEST,Andy 30 May 00 - 09:00 PM
GUEST,Col 31 May 00 - 09:59 PM
jeremie 01 Jun 00 - 03:45 AM
GUEST,Lucius 01 Jun 00 - 07:48 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 29 Oct 03 - 11:19 AM
Don Firth 29 Oct 03 - 01:15 PM
Steve Benbows protege 29 Oct 03 - 03:11 PM
Don Firth 29 Oct 03 - 04:10 PM
Beverley Barton 30 Oct 03 - 03:26 AM
rangeroger 31 Oct 03 - 12:07 AM
CraigS 31 Oct 03 - 05:19 PM
Steve Benbows protege 02 Nov 03 - 02:44 PM
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Subject: Flamenco Guitars
From: GUEST,Andy
Date: 28 May 00 - 09:14 PM

Does anyone know if Conde Hermanos guitars are a well-known make? I have come across one - rather old and well-used - but the asking price seems rather high. I've never heard of them.


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Subject: RE: Help: Flamenco Guitars
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 29 May 00 - 12:18 AM

Pardon the thread creep but is flamenco normally played in standard Spanish guitar tuning OR are open tunings more prevalent? Regards, John


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Subject: RE: Help: Flamenco Guitars
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 29 May 00 - 11:00 AM

Hi John, to the best of my knowledge, open tunings are NEVER used in Flamenco music. I doubt very much if they even use "dropped D".

Over the many years I've listend to, and watched Flamenco guitarists, I've seen them only play in 3 keys...A, E, and C. Most often capoed (often up to the 6th fret.)

Rick


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Subject: RE: Help: Flamenco Guitars
From: GUEST,Andy
Date: 29 May 00 - 08:47 PM

Thank you for the comments, but they are a little wide of my original enquiry !! Andy


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Subject: RE: Help: Flamenco Guitars
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 29 May 00 - 09:52 PM

Thanks Rick, Sorry Amos. Regads, John


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Subject: RE: Help: Flamenco Guitars
From: Mooh
Date: 29 May 00 - 09:54 PM

I can't help you directly, but a quick e-mail to Stanley Jay at Mandolin Brothers in New York would likely get the required answer. He's a gold mine of information. Also try Frank Ford at frets.com who has probably seen most everything available. And good luck.

Peace, Mooh.


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Subject: RE: Help: Flamenco Guitars
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 May 00 - 10:42 PM

In answer to your question----Yes they are.

CLICK HERE FOR INFO Also have been written up in The Guild and Acoustic Guitar mags.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Help: Flamenco Guitars
From: GUEST,Andy
Date: 30 May 00 - 09:00 PM

Thank you, Catspaw. I visited the site but unfortunately there are no prices quoted, so I am as far forward as ever. However, I am glad to see that it is a recognised make of guitar and not a mass-produced piece of timber. Andy


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Subject: RE: Help: Flamenco Guitars
From: GUEST,Col
Date: 31 May 00 - 09:59 PM

A very much sought after instrument. The industry standard and played by discriminating musicians. I belive the cheapest modern version starts at about $2,500. I have no idea of the value of older instruments. An Irish friend has one - much played for over 30 years and still sounding superb. i have heard of at least two more in the north of \irelandbut the details are vague. I am sorry ai cannot be of mpre help. I play a Contreras myself. Col


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Subject: RE: Help: Flamenco Guitars
From: jeremie
Date: 01 Jun 00 - 03:45 AM

Just a comment for John and Rick (sorry Andy...)

I think flamenco could be played with 6th string tuned in D, because it is often used in spanish music. (check Tarrega's tab for example)

Flamenco guitarists often use 4th cords (Em4th for example...), and "strange" others (Em/C "diez"...sorry, my key does not work....), in the middle of bright solo too.

jeremie


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Subject: RE: Help: Flamenco Guitars
From: GUEST,Lucius
Date: 01 Jun 00 - 07:48 PM

My experience says that flamenco uses only "standard" tuning. I am certain that Tarrega, though Spaininsh, was never considered to be a flamenco guitarist.


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Subject: RE: Help: Flamenco Guitars
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 11:19 AM

refresh


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Subject: RE: Help: Flamenco Guitars
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 01:15 PM

During the Seattle World's Fair in 1962, one of the major attractions at the fair was the Spanish Village, where they had flamenco dancing every night. During the six months of the fair, I had a chance to take lessons from Antonio Zori, one of the guitarists. A friend of mine took lessons from Carlos Ramos. One of the members of the Seattle Classic Guitar Society during the Sixties was Jose Trujillo, who played flamenco, and another friend of mine was a fellow named Chuck Drysdale, who had studied flamenco in Madrid for two years. Along with all this, I have several Flamenco technique manuals and lots of written music (very hard to pick it up that way unless you have someone to show you a lot of things first). I think I can say with some authority that never, ever, no time is flamenco played with anything other than standard guitar tuning.

Among other things, a super-authentic flamenco guitar (the kind favored by hard-nosed flamenco purists) doesn't have tuning machines, it has push-pegs. The result is that this kind of flamenco guitar is an absolute bitch to tune, so re-tuning is not something that most flamenco guitarists would take to with much pleasure. I had a Domingo Esteso with push-pegs once, so I know. I sold it to a purist and ordered an Arcangel Fernandez—with the tuning machine option (same as a classic). Fantastic instrument!   

Each one of the flamenco forms (Allegrias, Soleares, Granadinas, etc.) is played using a specific scale and set of chord fingerings, but not necessarily in a specific key. For example, the Allegrias uses the key of A scales and chord forms (i.e., A, D, and E) with some occasional variations, but the cejilla or capo is almost always used, not to change the key, but to vary the tone of the guitar and to bring the left hand up to where the frets are closer together to facilitate the "falsettas" (scales, runs, etc.). Traditional flamenco forms are fairly rigid in their structure, but within that structure, one is free to improvise to the limit of one's imagination and technique.

What classic guitar composers such as Tarrega have written is not a good source for information about flamenco, any more than a composition by Leonard Bernstein will give you authoritative information about jazz.

Judging from the age of this thread, the moment has undoubtedly passed, but a Condé Hermanos flamenco guitar should be a prime-quality instrument.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Help: Flamenco Guitars
From: Steve Benbows protege
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 03:11 PM

http://www.flamenco-seiten.de/contents.htm
http://www.ctv.es/guitar/solsamp.htm
http://www.ctv.es/guitar/
http://www.flamenco-teacher.com/index.jsp

I am sorry there are no blue clicky things i have never been able to do them. Hopefully these pages above should start to help clear up some of the questions - i.e tunings etc.
With regards.
    Pete.


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Subject: RE: Help: Flamenco Guitars
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 04:10 PM

Here ya go, Pete:—

Uno!!
Dos!
Tres!
Cuatro!

In "Cuatro" there is a forum. I put "tuning" in the dialog box and came up with quite a number of questions from aficianados and aspiring guitars about tuning. In most cases of "Does so-and-so use a special tuning on such-and-such? It sounds different," the answer comes back, "He has the cejilla on the third fret, but he uses standard tuning." There's one person who says something about using a dropped D tuning for a Farruca, but this strikes me as bogus. The Farruca uses the Am scale and chord set, with the E chord being quite prominent, and the bass falsetas spend a lot of time on the 5th and 6th strings, so I have serious doubts about this. Apparently dropped D is used from time to time, but it isn't common, and it's more an idiosyncrasy of a particular guitarist than it is common practice.   

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Help: Flamenco Guitars
From: Beverley Barton
Date: 30 Oct 03 - 03:26 AM

don,
    thanks for the instructional clicky, i have two pegheads, a 1970 rafael morales and a granados 9f and they are PIGS to tune.
       you will find nowadays though that the modern boys do use altered tunings. i have examples of alegrias and zambra in dropped D, and rondena,s in DADFBE.
                   the true path!!


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Subject: RE: Help: Flamenco Guitars
From: rangeroger
Date: 31 Oct 03 - 12:07 AM

There was an ad link athe the bottom of this thread for Guitar Salon.They show a new Conde Hermanos AF25R flamenco guitar for only $6955.

rr


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Subject: RE: Help: Flamenco Guitars
From: CraigS
Date: 31 Oct 03 - 05:19 PM

Guitar Salon


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Subject: RE: Help: Flamenco Guitars
From: Steve Benbows protege
Date: 02 Nov 03 - 02:44 PM

Don, thanks for the links. I had a few of them but not all! There is some good stuff in there that i will have to have a look at.


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