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Why are Americans so fat?

GUEST,John Evans 30 May 00 - 06:55 PM
catspaw49 30 May 00 - 06:59 PM
Rick Fielding 30 May 00 - 07:06 PM
GUEST,John Evans 30 May 00 - 07:07 PM
Peter K (Fionn) 30 May 00 - 07:08 PM
GUEST,MrBisok@aol 30 May 00 - 07:11 PM
Rick Fielding 30 May 00 - 07:18 PM
Áine 30 May 00 - 07:20 PM
catspaw49 30 May 00 - 07:42 PM
Guy Wolff 30 May 00 - 08:14 PM
Guy Wolff 30 May 00 - 08:18 PM
catspaw49 30 May 00 - 08:21 PM
GUEST 30 May 00 - 08:34 PM
kendall 30 May 00 - 08:55 PM
harpgirl 30 May 00 - 09:06 PM
Kelly 30 May 00 - 09:07 PM
harpgirl 30 May 00 - 09:15 PM
Frank McGrath 30 May 00 - 09:17 PM
McGrath of Harlow 30 May 00 - 09:22 PM
keltcgrasshoppper 30 May 00 - 09:28 PM
catspaw49 30 May 00 - 09:42 PM
GUEST,A***** by any other name 30 May 00 - 09:54 PM
Cap't Bob 30 May 00 - 10:06 PM
Frank McGrath 30 May 00 - 10:19 PM
GUEST,flattop 30 May 00 - 10:33 PM
ceitagh 30 May 00 - 10:53 PM
Baba 30 May 00 - 10:55 PM
Mbo 30 May 00 - 11:11 PM
Bill D 30 May 00 - 11:21 PM
Mrrzy 30 May 00 - 11:24 PM
ceitagh 30 May 00 - 11:46 PM
catspaw49 30 May 00 - 11:46 PM
GUEST,flattop 31 May 00 - 12:03 AM
Sorcha 31 May 00 - 12:08 AM
GUEST,flattop 31 May 00 - 12:14 AM
Liam's Brother 31 May 00 - 12:29 AM
Gary T 31 May 00 - 02:07 AM
Brendy 31 May 00 - 03:06 AM
GUEST,Hilary NZ 31 May 00 - 03:35 AM
Brendy 31 May 00 - 03:41 AM
GUEST,Hilary 31 May 00 - 03:58 AM
Brendy 31 May 00 - 04:13 AM
McGrath of Harlow 31 May 00 - 06:54 AM
McGrath of Harlow 31 May 00 - 06:57 AM
catspaw49 31 May 00 - 07:05 AM
Spider Tom 31 May 00 - 07:11 AM
catspaw49 31 May 00 - 07:20 AM
Spider Tom 31 May 00 - 07:31 AM
catspaw49 31 May 00 - 07:40 AM
catspaw49 31 May 00 - 08:07 AM
kendall 31 May 00 - 08:34 AM
Grab 31 May 00 - 09:02 AM
Wesley S 31 May 00 - 09:20 AM
catspaw49 31 May 00 - 09:21 AM
Kim C 31 May 00 - 09:48 AM
alison 31 May 00 - 10:45 AM
Bert 31 May 00 - 11:01 AM
Peg 31 May 00 - 11:15 AM
Bill D 31 May 00 - 12:09 PM
keltcgrasshoppper 31 May 00 - 01:36 PM
McGrath of Harlow 31 May 00 - 01:45 PM
Bill D 31 May 00 - 01:56 PM
Peter K (Fionn) 31 May 00 - 02:08 PM
Grab 31 May 00 - 02:11 PM
katlaughing 31 May 00 - 02:22 PM
Bert 31 May 00 - 02:38 PM
Gary T 31 May 00 - 02:51 PM
catspaw49 31 May 00 - 02:59 PM
Kim C 31 May 00 - 03:01 PM
Jed at Work 31 May 00 - 03:20 PM
katlaughing 31 May 00 - 03:33 PM
catspaw49 31 May 00 - 04:09 PM
Bert 31 May 00 - 04:15 PM
Peg 31 May 00 - 04:21 PM
Fadac 31 May 00 - 10:16 PM
Bill D 01 Jun 00 - 12:11 AM
Kelida 01 Jun 00 - 12:13 AM
katlaughing 01 Jun 00 - 12:23 AM
catspaw49 01 Jun 00 - 12:31 AM
Bill D 01 Jun 00 - 12:32 AM
GUEST,Roger the skiffler 01 Jun 00 - 04:30 AM
McGrath of Harlow 01 Jun 00 - 06:18 AM
Peter K (Fionn) 01 Jun 00 - 08:01 AM
katlaughing 01 Jun 00 - 08:56 AM
catspaw49 01 Jun 00 - 09:23 AM
Peg 01 Jun 00 - 11:55 AM
Jed at Work 01 Jun 00 - 02:59 PM
Peter K (Fionn) 01 Jun 00 - 04:16 PM
Jed at Work 01 Jun 00 - 05:14 PM
GUEST,fadac 01 Jun 00 - 08:00 PM
McGrath of Harlow 01 Jun 00 - 09:19 PM
catspaw49 01 Jun 00 - 09:43 PM
McGrath of Harlow 02 Jun 00 - 11:37 AM
GUEST,Baba 03 Jun 00 - 03:24 AM
Brendy 03 Jun 00 - 04:12 AM
bbelle 03 Jun 00 - 10:35 AM
Margo 03 Jun 00 - 12:04 PM
GUEST,Penny S. (elsewhere) 03 Jun 00 - 12:21 PM
McGrath of Harlow 03 Jun 00 - 03:11 PM
Bert 04 Jun 00 - 01:03 PM
McGrath of Harlow 04 Jun 00 - 02:11 PM
catspaw49 04 Jun 00 - 02:32 PM
GUEST,Lee 04 Jun 00 - 03:09 PM
Peter K (Fionn) 04 Jun 00 - 04:21 PM
McGrath of Harlow 04 Jun 00 - 08:02 PM
GUEST 04 Jun 00 - 08:04 PM
catspaw49 04 Jun 00 - 09:21 PM
Jon Freeman 04 Jun 00 - 09:45 PM
catspaw49 04 Jun 00 - 10:10 PM
Jon Freeman 04 Jun 00 - 10:23 PM
GUEST,Starfish 04 Jun 00 - 10:39 PM
catspaw49 04 Jun 00 - 10:44 PM
GUEST,John 04 Jun 00 - 10:46 PM
catspaw49 04 Jun 00 - 10:52 PM
GUEST,Starfish 04 Jun 00 - 10:54 PM
McGrath of Harlow 05 Jun 00 - 06:55 AM
GUEST,Starfish 05 Jun 00 - 07:10 AM
Peter K (Fionn) 05 Jun 00 - 05:46 PM
GUEST 05 Jun 00 - 09:48 PM
JedMarum 20 Sep 00 - 09:36 AM
kendall 20 Sep 00 - 10:10 AM
flattop 20 Sep 00 - 10:56 AM
GUEST,Katchoo 20 Sep 00 - 11:07 AM
JedMarum 20 Sep 00 - 11:32 AM
flattop 20 Sep 00 - 12:29 PM
Thomas the Rhymer 20 Sep 00 - 02:29 PM
McGrath of Harlow 20 Sep 00 - 03:14 PM
Ely 20 Sep 00 - 04:05 PM
MichaelAnthony 21 Sep 00 - 02:34 PM
Jon Freeman 21 Sep 00 - 02:42 PM
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bflat 21 Sep 00 - 08:30 PM
Little Hawk 21 Sep 00 - 08:39 PM
hesperis 21 Sep 00 - 11:26 PM
GUEST 05 Nov 04 - 08:01 AM
Nick 05 Nov 04 - 09:01 AM
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Roger the Skiffler 05 Nov 04 - 09:48 AM
Nick 05 Nov 04 - 10:10 AM
Ellenpoly 05 Nov 04 - 10:24 AM
Kim C 05 Nov 04 - 10:30 AM
Maryrrf 05 Nov 04 - 10:35 AM
The Beast of Farlington 05 Nov 04 - 10:48 AM
muppett 05 Nov 04 - 10:59 AM
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Little Hawk 05 Nov 04 - 05:31 PM
Bill D 05 Nov 04 - 08:55 PM
dianavan 05 Nov 04 - 09:14 PM
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Subject: Why are Americans so fat?
From: GUEST,John Evans
Date: 30 May 00 - 06:55 PM

I guess that most people here are aware that there is more than enough food produced to feed everyone in the world.

I recently heard the statistic that if everyone ate as much as the average American, we'd need 5 earths to feed them.

Cousins, please eat less

John


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: catspaw49
Date: 30 May 00 - 06:59 PM

yeah.....

Well we got more than a couple folks starving around this joint too. Shall I mail a burger somewhere?

What's your point John?

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 30 May 00 - 07:06 PM

To hell with his point, I want my dinner!

Canadians are fat too!

Rick


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: GUEST,John Evans
Date: 30 May 00 - 07:07 PM

My point is that us US citizens consume far more of the worlds resources than we have a right to.

I for one feel damn guilty

John


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 30 May 00 - 07:08 PM

Especially please eat less meat. And this goes for the whole of the well-fed world, not just USA. Grain goes seven times farther if it is eaten as grain rather than as beef. And cattle are the second-biggest contributor to the greenhouse-effect after aviation fuel. Yes, they blow out about 70 million tons of methane a year I believe, which must be quite a lot of farts.

Which reminds me... Q.Why did God make farts smell? A.For the benefit of the deaf. Yes, the old ones are the best...


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: GUEST,MrBisok@aol
Date: 30 May 00 - 07:11 PM

Any topic, repeat any topic no matter how irrelevant, can be brought back to folk focus: antidote to fat folks: Little Jimmy Dickins's song "Take an old cold 'tater 'n wait." -- any requests for full lyrics?


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 30 May 00 - 07:18 PM

Whooee! The fur's gonna fly here!

Remember the collective guilt about George Harrison's stabbing? (actually only one person felt it)

Actually your point is probably quite well taken, but your header is what will get folks P.O'd. ...and with good reason. Bet it was meant to..right?

Rick


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Áine
Date: 30 May 00 - 07:20 PM

Hey Spaw -- You can mail that burger down here . . . and if any of ya think I don't have a right to possess and consume it in my own home -- well, ya can pry it from my cold dead fingers, dang ya!

And John, I don't mean to belittle your own personal guilt or anything (well, not too much), but don't push it on me, please. I have enough of my own to carry without adopting any of yours. If you are that concerned about world hunger, I suggest you find an organization to which you can volunteer your time to help with whatever world problems about which you feel guilty.

And before you trip out into the wide world there, why don't you take a good look around your own town and see if there are any hungry children that need your attention?

-- Áine


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: catspaw49
Date: 30 May 00 - 07:42 PM

Like I said Aine.....we got a few people starving right around here. Pickle onion, tomato, lettuce and cheese on that burger Aine?

John, I know there are starving folks and that WE are a gluttonous nation, but assuage your guilt and do what you feel best wherever..........But remember that this country produces more and is often in a position to trade for more yet. What drives the production here is that gluttony and the accompaning economy. If we consume less are the producers going to give away the excess or sell more for no profit? My guess is that they won't produce it.

I used to get the line from my parents that I could never figure out.....so I don't use it on my kids.........

"You eat that! There are starving people all over the world who would be happy to have it!!!" .......... Even the dumbest kid in the world eventually responds, "I'm sorry Mom.....Where shall I send my turnips? Do you have an envelope that won't leak?" My Mom's response to this was.... FWWAAPPP!!!

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 30 May 00 - 08:14 PM

Ah Guilt the gift that keeps on giving!!! I learned that saying from a engineer turned waitress at my local dinner..There is something about all night diners and musicians that leads to tons of great stories... Why are old musician's so - - - , well because we are still loving thoughs late night breakfasts on the road.. You could take away all the beef in the world for me but Bacon & eggs<><>> I just put on an exstra 25 lb's last year dealing with a child in the Hospitol.. That hospitol gravy did me in. Sorry I'l try to leave some for the rest.. I think we could write a song perody of the old John Prine soun <><><> I got the tytle<><>< " There's a hole in dady's face were


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 30 May 00 - 08:18 PM

Ah Guilt the gift that keeps on giving!!! I learned that saying from a engineer turned waitress at my local dinner..There is something about all night diners and musicians that leads to tons of great stories... Why are old musician's so - - - , well because we are still loving thoughs late night breakfasts on the road.. You could take away all the beef in the world for me but Bacon & eggs<><>> I just put on an exstra 25 lb's last year dealing with a child in the Hospitol.. That hospitol gravy did me in. Sorry I'l try to leave some for the rest.. I think we could write a song perody of the old John Prine soung <><><> I got the tytle, anyone else want to write it ?????<><>< "There's a hole in dady's face where all the money goes." Good will to all, GUY<><><><><>< PS I bought an exercize bike and stair walker at the local church TAG SALE now I got to try using the them.. Wish me luck !!!


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: catspaw49
Date: 30 May 00 - 08:21 PM

Aw geeziz, you just made me lose it all over the screen Guy!!!! What a riot......."There's a hole in Daddy's face where all the goodies go........."

LMAOWROTF

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: GUEST
Date: 30 May 00 - 08:34 PM

Fatheads

Drink, infidelity, obesity. World's a tough place isn't it?


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: kendall
Date: 30 May 00 - 08:55 PM

the cost of living has'nt affected its popularity


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: harpgirl
Date: 30 May 00 - 09:06 PM

...I'm sure the answer to this question is very complex. I would like to see a double blind placebo controlled study...a good regression analysis or some other well designed study to give us good answers to this question. Technologically saturated work makes us sedentary...longevity gives us a lengthier period of physical prosperity (old people are rarely fat)...dependence on meat as a protein has all kinds of negative implications for the whole world as well as Americans, as Fionn points out...better medicines and health care probably contribute in some way...what about the mental health system? A very interesting and thought-provoking question...and certainly a great folkie cause...songs anyone?????? harpgirl


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Kelly
Date: 30 May 00 - 09:07 PM

Actually.. yes, America produces a ton of grain and beef and other food products. But people aren't starving because we Americans eat too much. They are starving because of supply and demand and wacky government and trade laws. Did you know that we dump hundreds of thousands of pounds of grain into incinerators every year just to keep the prices high?

*my two cents*


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: harpgirl
Date: 30 May 00 - 09:15 PM

...doesn't the research support the idea that starvation is mostly related to trade issues such as incineration of grains to control prices? But does that mean that wars in oil rich countries are the natural result of the need to balance the population of the earth in ways we don't yet measure?...a question with a complex answer, John Evans. Even flapping butterfly wings affect the answer...harpgirl


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Frank McGrath
Date: 30 May 00 - 09:17 PM

Americans fat? Why?
Simple really. A couple of million starving Paddies (Irish people) legged it over there 150 years ago. They started eating and they haven't stopped since.
The usual story, blame the Micks and you won't be wrong often.

Frank


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 May 00 - 09:22 PM

Looking at American programmes on TV what seems to come across is that the poor Americans are fat, and the rich Americans are thin. Anytime you see a really fat American, you can guarantee he or she will be having a hard time getting by.

Of course this is probably a digression, since I imagine it costs more to keep the rich ones thin than it does to keep the poor ones fat.

And as I always do, when this kind of discussion crops up, I invite peple to visit thehungersite, and stick it on their email signatures and browsers. (And that is an American site.)


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: keltcgrasshoppper
Date: 30 May 00 - 09:28 PM

McGrath... that is the first place I go every day... As for the FAT bit.. Hey spaw...how about some chips and a few beers to go with that burger... KGH


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: catspaw49
Date: 30 May 00 - 09:42 PM

Sure thing 'Hops........hops, yeah that's appropriate........What's your brew......I like that Lingenflingenwhatever stuff (I can never get the name right, but I recognize the label!!) from Milwaukee...I mean this is an "American" thread and all.......I just can't get Bud down though. I think their freshness secret is that they add soap to the brew.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: GUEST,A***** by any other name
Date: 30 May 00 - 09:54 PM

I don't know


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Cap't Bob
Date: 30 May 00 - 10:06 PM

Lets say we kill off all the cows so we can support seven times as many humans on the earth. Guess that would be around 45 billion folks on the old planet earth. Think of how many trees we would have to cut down just to supply these folks with guitars. Another thing seven people would most likely produce as much methane as one cow.

Cap't Bob (also known as ballast bob)


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Frank McGrath
Date: 30 May 00 - 10:19 PM

The fat Americans are needed to balance out the growing Chinese population. Otherwise the Earth would wobble out of control and fall into the Sun.

That's why Bill Clinton has been pushing through the Chinese trade agreement. He needs the Chinese to get hooked on video games and surfing the web so they will stop having sex. Otherwise Americans will need to get even fatter. And, let's be honest here, how much fatter can Americans get?

Frank (also known as Frank)


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: GUEST,flattop
Date: 30 May 00 - 10:33 PM

Fionn wrote 'Grain goes seven times farther if it is eaten as grain rather than as beef.'

Frances Moore Lappe has some information on this in her book, Diet for a Small Planet. The figures are from 1979. The average ratio of grain fed to cattle per pound of meat produced from cattle was 7 to 1. However, the figures was for all cattle including range cattle. Feedlot cattle consumed 16 pounds of grain and soy for every pound of meat produced. Feedlot beef takes about 25 times the amount energy and 3 to 15 times the amount of water that it takes to produce the same amount of vegetable protein. More and more Canadian and U.S. cattle are raised in feedlots.

A good portion of each 16 pounds of grain and soy that feedlot cattle eat which doesn't turn up as beef is excreted as manure. We recently had 6 people from a small Ontario town die (and many more severely ill) from e-coli in the drinking water that probably came from cattle manure. From rumblings and half admissions of government people, it sounds like another 40 or more Southern Ontario towns have had similar contamination in their drinking water in recent years but not to the point that so many people got sick.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: ceitagh
Date: 30 May 00 - 10:53 PM

McGrath has a point. Around where I live, poor people tend towards obesity. Many of my friends have also noted that they've gained weight their first year on their own. Poor nutrition is a big reason why people get, well, big. Between fast food when money is available, and huge amount of pasta when it isn't, people with limited budgets find that the cheapest, filling, food is hardly a balanced meal. Add to that the phenomena that fat feels filling, and most of us north americans are used to a nice, full feeling after eating, and you get a lot of bad nutritional habits.

As for world hunger...i doubt that my eating less beef (yum!) and more rice will really make a difference anywhere. If enough of us did it...meat prices inside the country would drop, huge amounts of money would go into a new beef advertising campaign, and rice imports would go up. none of which would make much of a difference anywhere to anyone but the top 5% of the population. oh, and the beef farmers would suffer.

Pax,
Ceit


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Baba
Date: 30 May 00 - 10:55 PM

The answer to this question is of course SERVING SIZE AND ATTITUDE TOWARD FOOD. My dear one's father, Richard, lives in Texas and recently returned home to Australia telling us tales of the HUUUUGE meal serving sizes at restaurants, and the tendency to take SUGAR, MEAT and OIL and deep fry them and mix them together in every imaginable manner as standard daily fare. Richard tells us that even the Asian eateries have enormous portions (which seems strange to me) because that is what people expect. It is too easy to drive through and scoff down a take away meal - apparently (and this is a bit of a generalisation) people don't walk down the street in Houston - their bottoms permanently attached to the soothing leather of the car seat.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Mbo
Date: 30 May 00 - 11:11 PM

Try this song Harpgirl!

--Mbo


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Bill D
Date: 30 May 00 - 11:21 PM

like harpgirl said, the problem is MUCH more complex than most people want to admit...evolution, social customs, balance of trade..etc..but the REAL issue is population growth and how to contain it in the 3rd world.....we just CAN'T have "45 billion folks on the old planet earth. "........and you wont like it as we approach 10-12 billion!....

"eat less" says John...tsk, what naiveté


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 30 May 00 - 11:24 PM

Don't neglect the biological factor that makes any attempt at weight control through diet worse than finding a dam when you're a would-be-spawning salmon. We are biologically supposed to be fat, or at least to try as hard as we can to be - so that in the face of "caveperson" food availability, we end up with enough reserves to make it through a drought or, even more draining, a pregnancy. Trust to the caverperson lifestyle to keep you fit (until you die of old age at 35; who says exercise is good for you?).
What's worse, our bodies are programmed to seek out and enjoy fats and sugars in contrast to food that's "better" for you. The yummy heartstoppers highly available today were scarce then, but were then and are now crucial to life-after all, cell membranes are made mostly of fat (not to mention myelin sheaths and other frills of the intelligentsia). And we're biologically omnivores, not herbivores; it's HARD to eat a really healthy balanced herbivorous diet without eating all the time like, well, herbovires; if we want to have meals, we're much healthier eating everything in sight (well, at the time of the programming, what was in sight was what you could catch).
This is because we are built, as is any species, to survive whatever pressures created it in the first place - cruelly independent, in today's world, from the artificial social pressures to be thin. Many of today's women are especially betrayed by puberty when the hormonal/metabolic balance shifts to store EVERYTHING because you never know when you might have a fetus to support on top of having that famine or whatnot to get through.
This is not to say that people don't overeat, after all, it is one of the wonderfullest greatest pleasures of all time. And if we still lived the way H. erectus did when environmental pressures (which, remember, must be CATASTROPHIC or it ain't worth the trouble to speciate) created Homo sap, we could eat as much as we want as the life of hunter-gatherers keeps you, if not fit, at least from obesity. It's no accident that overweight (à la Villendorf Venus) women are highly prized in contrast to skin&bones ooh la la in today's industrialized media. They are rare when you live that close to the source of the human food processing chain because of all the hard WORK involved in farming, in contrast to shopping.
Signed,

-Plump and grew up in the third world


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: ceitagh
Date: 30 May 00 - 11:46 PM

What's this "contain population growth in the third world"....who gets to make that sort of decision? How do we go about this?

Well, to start with we could try to set up more equitable food distribution systems, perhaps give some aid (debt relief would be nice) towards reviving economys where we can. Bluntly, even leaving birth control, sexual behaviours, etc. out of the equation, economically stable, successful and well fed societies have lower birth rates.

Or we could take Johnathon Swifts 'suggestion.' It would solve population and food production problems. (TIC)

Seriously, I'm kinda wary of 'population control' arguments, because sooner or later someone boils it down to "get rid of poverty by getting rid of the poor." And then they tell me that having kids while living under the poverty line is irresponsible. Then they remember my Mom and Dad (under the poverty line most of my childhood) had 7 of us....and apologise 'cause of course they didn't mean people 'like us'....they meant people like 'them' And I'm reminded of the scholar Darwin quoted in his "Descent of Man" who talked about how somehow the wrong people kept on reproducing themselves and used the Irish as an example of a group that was polluting the race.....shiver.....

Sorry Bill, don't think this is all aimed at you....your comment sparked a sore spot of mine, and a certain amount of free associating resulted. hope you kind 'catters don't mind.

Pax,
Ceitagh Ceit


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: catspaw49
Date: 30 May 00 - 11:46 PM

Dear Abby, Dear Abby, I'm really fat
People are starving
I feel bad about that
I want to help out and my diet's a dud
If you'll give me an address
I'll send them a spud.
Signed .... Gross Fatass

......with apologies to John Prine

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: GUEST,flattop
Date: 31 May 00 - 12:03 AM

I somewhat agree with Harpgirl but she's too much of a butterfly for my tastes. I'll stick with cheeseburgers.

Massive increases in population in places like Africa were caused by drops in the death rate rather than by increases in the birth rate. It looks like we are all part of a global problem. David Suziki's book, It's a Matter of Survival has some disturbing information on trend lines and thing like the fact that there are more of us alive today than have lived in rest of the history of (wo)mankind.

Yet few of us are volunteering to leave the planet. I don't know about you but I was just kidding when I said that I would kill myself.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Sorcha
Date: 31 May 00 - 12:08 AM

Just remember--you take guilt on yourself. Nobody, ever, can MAKE you feel guilt. You, yourself, choose to feel it. Also, governments can and do deliberately cause famine. Look at Ethiopia for one example. It is a means of politcal control. Not that I approve, but it is true.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: GUEST,flattop
Date: 31 May 00 - 12:14 AM

Or could starving, desparate people be inclined to war and instability, Sorcha?


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 31 May 00 - 12:29 AM

John, what an appropriate observation to make on an international folk music forum! Any comments on the scarcity of Michelin-starred restaurants in the USA? Given the abundance of food and the (apparent) National Appetite in America, it is an enigma.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Gary T
Date: 31 May 00 - 02:07 AM

Granting the premise implicit in the question, the answer is "Because we can be."

Who determines how much right Americans, or anybody, has to use what amount of resources?

If there ever develops a system that can actually get food and various other resources to the deprived people of the world who actually need them (and don't hold your breath for that to happen), I'd be willing to bet that in a generation or two those folks would be dealing with overcrowding problems of a hitherto unthinkable magnitude. Be careful what you wish for.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Brendy
Date: 31 May 00 - 03:06 AM

I don't think it is purely an 'American problem' I have met Irish guys in America, whom I knew as 'proportional' people when they lived in Ireland, only to turn out, 18 months later as little tubs

I eat like a horse, and neither put on, nor lose weight.
But America is renowned for it's 'large portions'; I was always partial to the 'New York Strip'. But man dear, I couldn't keep that kind of feeding up indefinately.
Anybody see the film 'Seven'?

Aaaaarrrrrgh!!!!

B.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: GUEST,Hilary NZ
Date: 31 May 00 - 03:35 AM

I have a problem. The threads i like best on this looney site are the ones that have NOTHING AT ALL!!!! to do with folk music. Wot if i get found out????? Someone post something about music QUICK!!!!

ps i have two answers from the other hemisphere 1. being thin is very expensive in the western world 2. Now number two concerns the condition of being anally retentive, so I've reconsidered posting it coz I've already been told off twice and I've only been round here a week.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Brendy
Date: 31 May 00 - 03:41 AM

Food and music are inextricably linked, Hilary
Check it out

B.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: GUEST,Hilary
Date: 31 May 00 - 03:58 AM

thanks Brendy but that's made me so thirsty I've gotta leave and have my DINNER...lasagne with a beautiful juicy beef bolognaise sauce, squooshy layers of pasta and a rich tasty cheeeeesy sauce... OOooops, sorry Guest John!

Another reason is I think they don't eat enough veggies - we in NZ eat lots of veggies and we beat you at yacht races (but that's all I think) But the problem with veggies is that they might have feelings too....


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Brendy
Date: 31 May 00 - 04:13 AM

Yeah I know. Hug a carrot today!!
Sorry, wrong thread
B.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 May 00 - 06:54 AM

"We in NZ eat lots of veggies" - I'll warn my friends who are veggies to steer clear of your cannibal islands...

And spaw, if you're drinking the stuff they call Budweiser that's made in America (and in franchised "breweries" elsewhere), I'm not surprised if you're not too happy with it. Try to get hold of Czech Budweiser, which is a different thing entirely. (Czech lager is better than Guinness even, and I hate to say that.)

It's strange isn't it - public spirited citizens invented the stuff they sell in MacDonalds, clearly in the hope of putting people off eating, and it backfired, and they liked it. Round the world. And even with the mad cow disease you get people eating English beef. (Though at least they've stopped the cows doing the same...)


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 May 00 - 06:57 AM

That's odd - well.here's another go at giving you Budweiser Budvar


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: catspaw49
Date: 31 May 00 - 07:05 AM

That was odd.....It happens occasionally.....kinda' weird.

Anyway McGrath.....I quit trying to drink Bud a long time ago. I don't drink much beer anyway, but when I do, I'd like to at least enjoy it.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Spider Tom
Date: 31 May 00 - 07:11 AM

What rudeness!
Surely we in the cyber-spaces talking of fatness as if it mattered.
The answer as to why Americans are so fat is the same answer as to why anyone is so fat.
Fat is neccessary to stop the skin from hanging about the ankles, if skin didn't stretch we would never be fat because we would ache as soon as we ate.
Imagine troops of saggy skinned joggers tripping on their own baggy bottoms as they ran, noy a pritty sight and if you were unlucky enough to stamp on your own ass-hole then the shit would really fly.
So I say, a little less of this fat talk.
The consequences of the alternative could be far worse.
I of course am a perfectly proportioned person, as you can see by my writing.
Spider Tom (Web-sailing)


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: catspaw49
Date: 31 May 00 - 07:20 AM

Listen Spidey....Since we're all here discussing our fat asses, might I suggest we all take a picture of our butts for a Mudcat fund raiser......a rollicking game of "Match the Mudcat Ass"-----Find the details in the "Good Thoughts for a Mudcat Friend" thread.

AND HILARY--I added a verse to John Prine's "Dear Abby" already to qualify as song content......sorta'.........

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Spider Tom
Date: 31 May 00 - 07:31 AM

Spaw I wouldn't want to operate the camera (Wide angle lens?)
I didn't say anyone had a fat ass, now did I?
Spider Tom (in soft focus)


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: catspaw49
Date: 31 May 00 - 07:40 AM

Now Spidey, I wasn't pickin' on ya'..........Just get a picture of your ass sent in right away.......and while you're at it, get one of alison's too.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: catspaw49
Date: 31 May 00 - 08:07 AM

Not to change the subject and get back to the original.............I just watched the news which had a film clip of the US Secretary of Agriculture being attacked by an animal rights activist with a tofu cream pie....She also called him a "Meat Pimp."

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: kendall
Date: 31 May 00 - 08:34 AM

I went on one of them two week diets and lost 14 days.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Grab
Date: 31 May 00 - 09:02 AM

Last verse of the Dire Straits song "My Parties":-
Now don't talk to me about the polar bear,
Don't talk to me about the ozone layer.
Ain't so much of anything these days, even air -
They're running out of rhinos, what do I care?

Let's hear it for the dolphins, let's hear it for the trees,
Ain't running out of nothing in my deep freeze.
It's casual entertaining, we aim to please...

At my parties all right, you do what you please.

As to why Americans are fat, it's the same reason lazy, ill-educated and TV-addicted people everywhere get fat - cos they're lazy, ill-educated and TV-addicted.

A programme on British TV last night showed an experiment removing all the TVs from a family for 2 weeks. And guess what - they went out walking, playing football, etc instead. Anyone care to draw the obvious conclusion...?

Grab.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Wesley S
Date: 31 May 00 - 09:20 AM

John - I don't know about you but I'm a direct desendent of Santa Claus. Would you care to tell us what you are doing to ease the plight of the hungry of the world? Can I assume that you work at your local food bank? Make sandwichs at a local nightshelter? Raise funds for infant formula programs?? Feel free to contact me if you need other suggestions on how to get active.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: catspaw49
Date: 31 May 00 - 09:21 AM

I would conclude that its better to eat food than to eat your TV. TV's are probably hard to digest, plus you'd be stuck going out on walks making yourself a possible "innocent bystander" or playing football where you risk possible knee injury.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Kim C
Date: 31 May 00 - 09:48 AM

A simple philosophy to follow is, eat when you're hungry and stop when you're full.

There is plenty of food available to feed everyone in the world but the real problem appears to be distribution. Don't you remember in Africa awhile back when we were sending grain down there but the warlords were taking it all to keep the people subjugated? Food is very often used as a political leveraging tool.

People are overweight and unhealthy not only from a lack of exercise (I'm guilty there) but from excess sugars and preservatives and other chemicals in processed foods. Mister and I try to stay away from many processed foods but it can be expensive. Mac & cheese in a box is 4 for a dollar a lot of times, but salad greens are $6 a pound. I would rather pay the more money up front to avoid costly medical bills later.... plus, since diabetes runs in my family it's in my interest to be as healthy as I can.

I do, however, enjoy a Sonic cheeseburger about twice a month. :)


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: alison
Date: 31 May 00 - 10:45 AM

Damn 'spaw ..... why didn't you think of this a few weeks back when I was taking photos at the festival.. I could have got everyone.......

now you'll have to wait.......

slainte

alison


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Bert
Date: 31 May 00 - 11:01 AM

Here's one reason.

Fix that one first, COUSIN!


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Peg
Date: 31 May 00 - 11:15 AM

I agree with Baba and Kim C, mostly and with some of what many others here have said...

I do not think meat is evil; humans are more or less built to eat it; though surely not built to eat meat that is pumped full of antibiotics and hormones from animals whose lives are miserable while they are alive...I believe we should all acknolwedge the sacrifice an animal makes when it gives its life for our nourishment--this is simply part of staying connected to the living world around us: something we have all but forgotten how to do in industrialized countries.

We are also built to MOVE! as in hunting for our food and planting and digging up our food. Not to sit in chairs. Lack of physical activity is the NUMBER ONE reason Americans are overweight and unhealthy. We must escape our fortresses and take to the hills and forests and meadows and sidewalks and get off our asses and enjoy the outdoors more...no need to join a gym or buy fancy exercise gear. Walking is pleasurable, health-giving and a wonderful way to get somewhere (or nowhere).

We are also built to eat fruits and grasses and roots and veggies; we are NOT built to eat grains and in fact added them to our diets rather late in our evolution. They are hard for humans to digest because they combine protein and carbohydrate in the same food. This is exacerbated when grains are refined and the fiber and nutrients removed. Some ethnic groups can eat grains more successfully than others, just as some are more prone to alcohol addiction, dairy allergies, etc.. (A fascinating book on this is Native Nutrition and it also details what has happened throughout history when refined foods, especially white sugar, is introduced to various indigenous populations: southwest Indians in the US are experiencing obesity and its concomitant diseases, especially diabetes, in staggering record numbers; their counterparts in South America, genetically identical but physically active people who eat plenty of beans and corn, are among the healthiest people on earth. As are the Masai in Africa, who literally live on meat, milk and marrow from their cattle, but who also run amny miles per day as part of their nomadic herding lifestyle).

I think eating real food is the answer to the emptiness many Americans feel regarding their diets; real, live food, that is grown or raised near in one's own local area and with a minimum of chemicals and cruelty. Cooking one's own food or having it cooked for you by a loving person is also believed to impart better nutrition. Eating produce which has to travel several days before it hits the shelves insures most of the nutrients are dissipated. We can and should vote with our dollar and create a demand for humane food products. Better still, we should grow and kill our own food whenever possible.

One individual cannot solve the world hunger crisis. But each of us can opt to treat ourselves and our loved ones as well as we can, and since not eating is not an option, I suggest we enjoy our food as much as we can while understanding that we must eat to live, not live to eat.

love and simple pleasures to all!
Peg

Single malt Scotch, Belgian chocolates, fresh bread with organic butter, locally-grown berries, free range leg of lamb roasted with rosemary and garlic, crumpets with apricot jam, farm-raised salmon baked with honey-lemon-garlic-olive oil-red pepper-cumin glaze---these are a few of my favorite things...


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Bill D
Date: 31 May 00 - 12:09 PM

my, how things have progressed since I posted last night and went to bed..(well-fed)....

Ceitagh...I, too, am wary of plans to 'contain population growth'...and I said 'third world', because growth HAS slowed a lot in the US and Europe...gradually, the ratio between the 'developed' and not-so-developed countries is changing...and the have-nots now HAVE TV & internet and can SEE what they are missing...I have no idea who is to say what the 'proper' ratio should be, either in population or calories.(Well, actually, I do...in a perfect world, EVERYONE would have enough room, food and fair access to what they needed for a fulfilling life...)but we passed the population level for that possibility about 1937.

It ain't easy...there are NO simple ways to feed us all, even if catspaw mails ALL his spare spuds to poor folk, and...even if manna fell from Heaven every day...(anyone ever read Philip Jose Farmer's "Riverworld"?), there is simply a finite amount of room for malls, graves, golf courses, and condos.

I sure don't want the job of **DECIDING** how to reduce the population, but at some point, the population WILL be reduced, if not by plan, then by nature. (ever follow the progress of a bunch of rats in a cage as they overbreed?...even when they are fed enough, it is not a pretty sight. And the Earth is simply a rat cage on a very large scale without an infinite food supply)

Kim has a point, of sorts...better distribution of available food is a fine idea, but we cant GET food to central Ethiopia when we try!...and 'enough' food is even in doubt...have you read the articles about the overfishing of the Grand Banks?..Do you WANT to eat nothing but spiced soy and plankton?...Did you see the movie "Soylent Green"?....silly?..maybe in your lifetime, but your great-grandchildren may be asking "Why didn't they DO something back then?"

...and I'm telling you something you really need to be aware of...hungry, desperate, crowded, angry people will behave like rats in a cage in certain circumstances. If YOU have a potato, and HE has none and wants it...how far will YOU go to keep it from him? will you share it? Will he setttle for half a potato? Could I be wrong about how serious it is gonna be? Maybe...but we can't afford for me to be right, can we?

Gee, I started out to throw a few jokes into this post, but it didn't seem to work that way, did it? Sorry, folks...I have several buttons. Definitions of folk music is the easy one.....this pushed the serious one...


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: keltcgrasshoppper
Date: 31 May 00 - 01:36 PM

Spaw... here in Mass we drink Berkshire Brewing Company.. better known as BBC...Great stuff full of calories.....KGH


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 May 00 - 01:45 PM

Evolution will solve it all. Get too fat, you die sooner, and you don't breed. It all works out in the end.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Bill D
Date: 31 May 00 - 01:56 PM

ah, McGrath...that would have to be REALLY fat!*grin*...you usually have a few years to breed before you get too fat to outrun the predators...or too big to mount


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 31 May 00 - 02:08 PM

To answer Gary T's point, way up the thread, it must be the ones with the most guns who get to choose how much of the world's grub they scoff. Which must be why the yanks (six per cent of the world population?) get through about 50 per cent of the world's finite resources. (I think I am understating.)

Just heard on the good old BBC today that one in four are fat in the USA, but we Brits are catching up fast. Not sure if I'm the one in my five. I must be a bit overweight, but what what counts as fat?

No coincidence of course, but the Yanks also lead the world with junk food and fast food. Again we Brits are catching up fast.

Apparently the countries that have highest proportion of "low fat" "no added sugar" processed foods have the fattest people. Certainly my experience of the States (even Alaska) is that it can be impossible to find ordinary normal wholesome food, free of artificial sweeteners etc.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Grab
Date: 31 May 00 - 02:11 PM

Bill, evolution requires reproduction. Which requires being thin enough to find the appropriate organs and connect them together...

(quote from Austin Powers II)

"How _could_ you do it with Fat Bastard?"

"Well, it was my job."

"No, I mean, _how_ could you do with Fat Bastard? The sheer mechanics of it are..."

Grab.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: katlaughing
Date: 31 May 00 - 02:22 PM

Pretty deep subject isn't it, BillD?

I am one of those who doesn't eat meat, not for health reasons as much as I just cannot stand the thought of the killing involved and find it repugnant. And, if everyone did grow and kill their own, as Peg suggests, I suspect we would have many more who would not eat meat. Even just a few pages of a book on factory farming etc. is enough to put a person off, imo.

Each of us has a responsiblity to ourselves first. If we take an action, such as not eating meat, not reproducing, etc., we do effect some sort of change.

Mostly, for Americans, esp. our children, I think we should follow the advice of one of my favourite bumper stickers and "kill your television." But, of course, I'd prefer we all adopt the "moderation in all things" philosophy. As for portions, I once attended a lecture in which the speaker, an expert, said we each of us should only eat an amount of nutritious food which equals the size of one of our fists in order to be adequately nourished.

Now, I've lost almost 50 lbs in the past year being very creative at staying a vegetarian yet eating a high protein/low carb diet. That has become anathema to me, though, and ineffective, so, I've gone back to eating tons of fresh fruit and veggies and low fat non-processed food and feel much, much better. A good site which is helpful for motivation and explains calorie-density can be found here.

kat


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Bert
Date: 31 May 00 - 02:38 PM

Well done kat! We need to see a new picture now. Oh, and you'll lose another pound or two if you take that bloody cat off your head *BG*.

A word of warning though to all dieters. Get a second or third opinion before starting any diet. The doctors put Lou on one drastic diet after another and she got very sick every time. It turned out that she was suffering from Non-Hodgkins Lymphoma. If those quacks had been treating her for that, instead of obesity, she might have survived.

Bert.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Gary T
Date: 31 May 00 - 02:51 PM

Hi, Fionn. While we do use a startlingly disproportionate amount of resources, and probably have the most guns, I rather doubt that there's a direct link. I see it as more a juxtoposition of opportunity, national economy, human nature, and logistics. We're blessed with a bountiful, productive land, and it's simply possible and easy to be wasteful. Sharing it with the most needy (e.g. Ethiopia) is not easy, and perhaps not possible.

I read a similar news item about Europe following our unfortunate example. I believe the definition of "obese" was 20% or more above ideal body weight. Of course, there was no definition of ideal body weight. (Then one could raise the questions: Medically ideal? Culturally ideal? In whose judgment? Is geography [climate, etc.] factored in? But that's a whole other kettle of fish.)

It is sometimes amazing the lengths that are gone to in apparently futile gestures to "do something" about this (fat-free foods, etc.). The typical example is the overweight person having a hamburger, french fries, ice cream--and a diet soda. Diet soda--why bother? Reminds me of the story of the millionaire who spent tens of thousands of dollars having his mansion's ballroom built, with all sorts of lavish appointments--and a closet with the interior left unpainted to save money (maybe a couple hundred dollars). Ah, human nature!


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: catspaw49
Date: 31 May 00 - 02:59 PM

I'm not too nationalistic frankly, but it gets a bit old when someone complains that we use too much here in the US. Yep...we do. We also PRODUCE a lot. We could produce a lot more, but who's going to buy it? Capitalism may be a bitch, but that's the way it works.

Geeziz, we have farmers going belly-up all the time here even with government subsidies. And even when we try to get food to a lot of other countries (as Bill mentioned, ie., Ethiopia), it doesn't work. We've tried to pass on better techniques through assorted government funded programs but gawd knows none of them work either. Additionally, the US then gets accused of trying to shove our stuff down the throats of other peoples and cultures. Its like giving my son a Milky Way candy bar and he looks at me and says, "I wanted a Butterfinger."

Sorry......A lot of the world's troubles could be easily solved if EVERYONE was willing to give up on the idea of freedoms and rights and cultural/religious differences and just work toward a simple living for all. Since that ain't too likely...............

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Kim C
Date: 31 May 00 - 03:01 PM

Maybe my hero John Prine said it best:

Blow up the TV
Throw away the paper
Move to the country and build you a home
Have a lotta children
Eat a lotta peaches
Try to fine Jesus on your own

or something like that, anyway..........


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Jed at Work
Date: 31 May 00 - 03:20 PM

My first thoughts on this thread were "OK, here's another one of of those hateful, 'I've got some political or social axe to grind so I'll bait the forum with a bit of my nasty perspective' sort of threads. I'll stay out of it.

But in spite of the original twisted comment, I see some thoughful responses here among the great Mudcat thinkers ... so I find it hard not to jump in.

When I travelled in Bolivia, Peru, El Salvador I did not eat more than the locals, likewise when I travelled in China, England, or any of the other countries where I lived and worked with the average citizens. Nor did I see any less evidence of what our thread baiter is calling 'fat' people. Walk the streets of Cochobamba, walk the streets of Lima, walk the streets of San Salvador - I promise you you will see a very similar variety of body types, and people you might call 'fat'.

Does American the marketplace 'consume' significantly more than that of the developing counties? Almost ceratinly so - does that mean that Americans eat five times the food of those in the rest of the world? Bullshit! Is this discussion not one more example of some asshole trying to prove that the American's are better off then those in (some) other countries because we "stole' their piece of the pie. Most assuredly!


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: katlaughing
Date: 31 May 00 - 03:33 PM

Thanks, Bert, ya'll get a new picture when I've lost the other 50! Thank you,also, for sharing with us some more about Lou. My doctor has left it up to me what I do; I ask his advice when I feel I need it, but I usually end of finding answers on the net which I share with him!

As for diet sodas, I wish people would understand that some who are diabetic drink diet soda out of necessity. Clerks often think nothing of getting it wrong and handing someone a regular when they've ordered diet and, if they don't notice it and go ahead and drink it, there can be some serious repercussions.

We do have a fast-food drive-in, here, locally owned, which offers real fruit smoothies, so there are some alternatives!

As for abundance in America, I guess those homeless in Seatlle haven't heard about that, yet, as well as in other places. They have pulled together, though, in a common bond and were once again packing up their commune-like tent city to move to the next vacant lot. According to this NPR report "Seattle Homeless", they've come up with a fairly decent code of living which nurtures each of them as well as can be expected for living on the street.

kat


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: catspaw49
Date: 31 May 00 - 04:09 PM

Yeah...like my very first post said way back at the top, we got a few folks in pretty desparate need around here. Woody wrote "I Ain't Got No Home" about 65 years ago and things havent improved much have they?

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Bert
Date: 31 May 00 - 04:15 PM

You didn't have a 'hundred' to lose kat. Take care now and don't overdo it.


John Evans, one thing that I guess I should come out and say plainly, instead of just hinting at it, is that... Many people are fat, NOT because they eat too much, but because THEY ARE SICK. And for them to eat less just makes them more sick.

PCOS and Lymphoma are just two reasons, there are many more. People go around accusing the obese of greed without ever considering other possibilities.

I have been 'skinny' for most of my life even though I have a healthy appetite. That's because I had Graves disease. Since I've had treatment I've gradually been gaining weight even though I eat less than I did before. For most people, their body shape is caused by some medical condition or difference in metabolism, whether skinny or fat, and greed or overeating or even exercise often has nothing to do with it.

Bert.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Peg
Date: 31 May 00 - 04:21 PM

re: diet soda, yes it is the only soda diabetics can drink (my mom, brother and niece all have Type 1) BUT Nutrasweet is VERY VERY bad for you! It causes headaches and nosebleeds for people who work in the plants that make it. It causes headaches and indigestion in many people that consume it (myself included but maybe because I am hypoglycemic). It turns into wood alcohol at high temperatures...
Many people are addicted to diet soda because Nutrasweet is also slightly addictive (as is sugar). Best solution: don't drink soda. Selzter with juice is a very nice alternative, and there are many juice spritzers on the market...


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Fadac
Date: 31 May 00 - 10:16 PM

Yes, please use less. Turn off your fridge, turn off your heater, don't use your vacuume cleaner, drink raw milk, in fact don't use anything.

This dosn't make much sence does it? Well Americans use the most, because by and large, they make the most. One American farmer supports them selves and how many more people? How does this compare with Germany?, the UK, India?

Why are we fat? Because we CAN!

-fadac


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Jun 00 - 12:11 AM

eating habits are many & varied...I have known vegetarians of all levels, from TOTAL abstention..(meaning concern over whether an egg was fertilized or not...religious grounds) to those who abstain for health reasons, to what a meat-eater friend of mine calls "BBES"...(big brown eyes syndrome)(do you eat fish, katlaughing? Or is it just 'higher' life forms that concern you...not judging, just curious) I have eaten delicious all-veggie meals. I just never felt it necessary ..just how I was raised, I guess...I suppose I could learn meatless cookery if necessary, but I'm pretty old to start now. I know that in some parts of the world, meat is a luxury simply because of availibility, and I am concerned that even vegetable protein will become scarce. We are descended from animals who did eat meat, and baboons & chimps still do on occasion, but...*shrug*...as humans, we get to debate and worry.

(does anyone else remember the Gary Larson cartoon where 2 big lions are spitting in disgust after taking a bite from a weird carcass with no features & splayed legs?...the caption says..." In sudden disgust, the lionesses realize they have killed a Tofudebeast, one of the Seringhetti's ubiquitous health antelopes")


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Kelida
Date: 01 Jun 00 - 12:13 AM

Americans ARE "fat" in more than one way. But we also give more in charity, relief and aide to struggling nations than any other nation on earth. Of, course, this may be because (don't quote me on this, please) we are the richest and most populated of industrialized countries.

However, I would advise Americans to look within before looking for troubles abroad. America has her own problems. Feel guilty about those first, if you really MUST feel guilty. Go buy a street person a burger--real fattening (joking, but you get the idea). The problems at home need attention before we should worry about everyone else's problems. If America produces enough to support most of the world, why can't she support herself?

Peace--Keli


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 Jun 00 - 12:23 AM

Thanks, Bert, but I did too have that much to lose! Frightening, isn't it and thanks, too, for pointing out the hidden reasons that can cause obesity. I got spayed at 27 and had been 110 lbs. all of my life, even after three kids, until that; then I grew just like my spayed cats! Exercise is a bit difficult if I don't pace myself because of the dickie ticker, but I am getting there, which will help that problem, too.

BillD, I eat fish on occasion, prefer not to and I was raised by a man who grew up on a homestead cattle ranch in Colorado! Didn't go veggie until I was in my 30's, about hmmmmm...oh well, a few years ago, so you're never too old, ya hear?**BG** And that Farside was one of my very favourite cartoons! I have one up right now of Mother Goose & Grimm, the cat and dog cartoon. It shows the dog sitting in a chair reading "To Kill A Mockingbird" and then he thinks in a balloon, "I thought it was an instruction manual!"


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: catspaw49
Date: 01 Jun 00 - 12:31 AM

I figure there's a big Larson contingent around here......I always liked the lobster about to go into the pot screaming, "Auntie Em! Auntie Em!"

Spaw (Sorry to bring up another joke in this thread which everyone's bitching about.......yeah, right)


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Jun 00 - 12:32 AM

*big grin*...a favotite


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 01 Jun 00 - 04:30 AM

Following on from Grab's posting, for a birthday some years back someone gave me a bottle of Fat Bastard Chardonnay and someone else gave me Owd Roger beer! People can insult me like that any time they like!
Why couldn't I post to this thread yesterday? It's OK today!
RtS


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Jun 00 - 06:18 AM

"But we also give more in charity, relief and aide to struggling nations than any other nation on earth."

Well, proportionately, you don't actually. Ireland for one gives far more per head, and there are many others. If Americans gave the same proportion as the top ten countries or so, we'd be in sight of cracking a lot of the things wrong with the world.

And that isn't meant to be knocking America. Big countries tend to be more inward looking than small countries, and they don't come a lot bigger than the United States. It's certainly not a matter of lack of generosity on an individual basis. It's a structural problem.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 01 Jun 00 - 08:01 AM

Thanks Gary T. I think we're on the same wavelength.

I know you can't send doggy bags to Ethiopia, but don't forget that some of the neediest are right there in the states.

Spaw, to justify consuming more on the basis that you produce more is a bit ingenuous. Do you all work that much harder than the rest of us?

And in what about finite resources like fossil fuels and the global atmosphere - stuff you didn't produce and can't replace? Worse still, most of this consumption is down to only a small element in your population. If the rest caught up, then again the world would go bust.

As for whether obesity can be caused by illness, the jury is still out on that. But I remember a consultant (oncologist I think) causing a furore by pointing out that there were no fat people at Auchwitz.

Maybe obesity is too personal/emotive. Maybe someone could explain instead why well-off Americans have to swan around in ridiculously huge leisure utility trucks that do about six miles to a gallon? To the rest of us (including other Americans I assume) this looks like just another way of screwing up the planet for the sheer hell of it.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 Jun 00 - 08:56 AM

Peg, thanks for pointing out the horribleness of Nutrasweet, you are absolutely right. Also, while I have no hard evidence, my friend has noticed that her joints quit painfully aching after she quit drinking diet soda.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: catspaw49
Date: 01 Jun 00 - 09:23 AM

Fionn, I'm not suggesting that we don't overconsume. But I would say that the sheer force of economics precludes this joint from addressing the problem in a more beneficial way. Show me a "workable" plan and I'll be all for it. We have lots of homeless and malnourished people here that we haven't provided much of a solution for either.

The idea that those who can afford to consume generally do, is not uniquely American. This kind of discussion always leaves some of us sounding as though we are xenophobic and others sounding like sour grapes....neither of which is true.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Peg
Date: 01 Jun 00 - 11:55 AM

Fionn, excellent comment on those Stupid Useless Vehicles!!! I could not agree more. They are an excellent metaphor for what is wrong with America: have fun today, don't worry about tomorrow, and pay no attention to the horrid wastefulness you are contributing to...and be sure not to worry about the safety of the people in your immediate vicinity...

I have yet to meet an SUV owner who used the vehicle for its designated purpose: most of them are used to schlep around kids, groceries and dry cleaning...and they cause more accidents, quite apart from their gas guzzling...how easily we forget the fuel crisis of the 1970s and 1980s! Now people grumble about high gasoline prices and are trading in those stupid monsters...


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Jed at Work
Date: 01 Jun 00 - 02:59 PM

... and the myths keep rolling!


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 01 Jun 00 - 04:16 PM

I take your point Spaw, but it surely the US tax on gasoline could be a bit nearer EU levels and the revenue put to something useful? That said, it's crazy that aviation tax is not taxed anywhere, as far as I know. Aircraft emissions are far the biggest cause of the greenhouse effect.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Jed at Work
Date: 01 Jun 00 - 05:14 PM

You must be kidding, Fionn. Your airline tickets are taxed beyond belief already!! Airlines themselves generate BILLIONS of dollars each year in income taxes for Uncle Sam - and a large percentage of every ticket you buy is eaten up with additional Fed, state and local taxes.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: GUEST,fadac
Date: 01 Jun 00 - 08:00 PM

Hmmm, airplane taxes. Vent mode on: As an airplane owner I pay. Sales tax, property tax, excise tax, then where I pay the city to tie it down, I pay property tax on the space under the wheels. On the fuel I burn, there is Fed. tax, state tax, county tax, city tax, and don't forget airport tax. God help you if you need a light bulb or a new tire.

At this time the Avaition reserve has like 34 Billion dollars just sitting there. The FAA dosn't want to reliese the money to fix up airports, pay for new updated navagation systems, give the tower controlers a pay raise. In fact they want to tax us even more to get more money that they don't want to spend.

There has been several attempts to raid the airport money, however there are some level heads that prevent it. So far.

Anybody that thinks that small aircraft get a free ride, are welcome to my tax bills. Vent mode off: -fadac :)


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Jun 00 - 09:19 PM

When Europeans are critical of America it's a bit different from ordinary xenophobia. Americans are Europeans, freed from some of the restrictions that apply back here. Having bigger appetites, in all kinds of ways, is symbolic.

Of course in a way this makes the criticism harsher at times - in a sense it is selfcriticism, criticism of an aspect of ourself that has been realised in a foreign country. But it can disguise the fact that collectively we are doing our best to follow in the footsteps of the United States in consumption.

Clearly a world in which a few regions of the woprld consume so much that it is totally impossible for the rest of the world to match it, because the resources just are not there - that is not something which can go on permanently. Something will happen that restores the balance.

But how that can be achieved without some kind of world catastrophe, and whether it can in fact be achieved - those are hard questions, and we haven't come up with the answers here, not surprisingly. "Cousins, please eat less" wrote the much (and in my few, unfairly) maligned John Evans, at the start of this thread. Clearly, taken literally, that won't in itself solve things - though it will help you live longer (and use up more resources - no simple answers, indeed...).


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: catspaw49
Date: 01 Jun 00 - 09:43 PM

Well this oughta' be about post 92 and with any luck we can let this sucker die. No, there are no easy answers if indeed an answer exists. Revolution perhaps....

All we can do is to individually be as conseving as possible in what we do. Trying to get others to follow suit? People, we can't even get past the divisiveness this thread seemed to create here among friends............

Let's let this one go off to the archives to join the likes of "Armalite" and others.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Jun 00 - 11:37 AM

You're right there 'spaw. Until someone can come up with some bright ideas otherwise we'll be going round in circles. But it's funny the way talk about "fat" gets people as aerated as talk about reasons for killing people does.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: GUEST,Baba
Date: 03 Jun 00 - 03:24 AM

Thank you Bill D. For years, since I was about 11 years old, I have attempted to explain to others why I abstain from eating meat. I think I do have the BBES ("Big Brown Eyes Syndrome"), apart from not acquiring a "taste" for meat when I was growing up. I suppose I am a visual person - can't help seeing the dear little animals in their former frolicking glory as their naked bodies grill and sizzle.

*Sorry to those of you who might be eating dinner*

Vegetarian eating for me is a habit, and it is something my body thanks me for each day with its good health and natural energy.

I hope one day that all the pressure to be thin, the fad diets, the damaging guilt and the feelings of inadequacy will disappear from this strange social construct we call "the Western World". Many people are walking around feeling disgusted by themselves due to the materialism of this culture.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Brendy
Date: 03 Jun 00 - 04:12 AM

There was this 'assistant' to Gerry Ryan (Irish disc-jockey) every morning, an effiminate Cork lad called Terence.
One of his more endearing phrases ws that he "Could never eat anything with a face"

B.
(who often does)


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: bbelle
Date: 03 Jun 00 - 10:35 AM

Perhaps the reason Americans are so "fat" is because when we got out from under British rule in 1776 the cooking got better?

moonchild


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Margo
Date: 03 Jun 00 - 12:04 PM

To address the original post:

I don't give a fig for your guilt(haha). It won't feed anyone or make anyone skinnier.

As to why American's are fat: It is a matter of how things have evolved (as I see it)

SUGAR: refined sugar being used in everything, in common everyday canned foods has a damaging effect (if you don't know why sugar makes you fat, go look it up)Pastries and sweets used to be only affordable by the very rich, but with technology, things have become cheaper and more affordable to produce I think that Hersheys was the first chocolate bar to be afforded by the masses.

FAST FOOD LIFESTYLE: Our lifestyle has become a squeeze for time. We are expected to get more accomplished in less time. This phenomena is a result of the advances in technology. Foods that are "ready to go" are not only sold in fast food joints but also at the grocery store. It's so much easier to buy something that is ready made. Unfortunately, the lion's share of these products are indeed high in fat and sugars. It's a terrible price to pay for convenience.

I'm sure that there are other factors playing upon the public in general that I am not aware of, but I think the ones I mentioned play a major part.

John Evans, your accusation that the Americans simply are gluttonous and eat too much is inflamitory and self rightous. Get off your high horse. If you're really concerned about what makes people fat gather all the facts and then do something about it rather than pointing a finger. Margo


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: GUEST,Penny S. (elsewhere)
Date: 03 Jun 00 - 12:21 PM

British cooking, pre Industrial Revolution, was good - where do you think all those cooks over there learned those dishes that are suspiciously like our traditional dishes - they aren't all Indian recipes? British cooking, post Depression and with WWII rationing went through a bad patch. In the gap in between, there was good and bad, depending on where you fitted in society, or how close you were to the sources of food in the country.

This is a calumny that should die, along with references to grits and chitterlings.

Penny


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Jun 00 - 03:11 PM

Food rationing for the English as a whole actually meant an improvement in nutrition, reflected in improved health. Might not have tasted too good, but nor did what most people had before. That's probably why, having been born then, I see food as fuel rather than a major thing in my life - I like it to taste good, but so long as it's edible and does the trick of keeping me going, that's the main thing

I'm still puzzled at how angry people seem to be feeling about all this. It seems that any suggestion that people eat too much is like accusing them of some depraved activity, and to use the word "fat" is the ulktimate insult. Obviously it'd be better if we were all a lot nmore equal round the world, and God willing somehow in time that'll come to be.

Now if John Evans' bit of mild breast-beating annoyed people, try this for size (and maybe change the identity countries round a bit to fit the turn of the Millennium) - A Modest Proposal


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Bert
Date: 04 Jun 00 - 01:03 PM

LMAO Moonbaby, that was a good one.

Bert.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Jun 00 - 02:11 PM

To put the "fat" thing in proportion, here is a quote in this week's Sunday paper from Mo Mowlem, the most popular minister in the British Cabinet with the public (but not, it is said with Tony Blair):

"I don't believe in dieting. If I want to get thinner and wear a swimming costume, I'll have to cut out whisky and potatoes but you only have one life, so why not enjoy it?


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Jun 00 - 02:32 PM

What the hell kind of casserole is whisky and potatoes? Just doesn't sound too good together although both are fine individually. And what does this have to do with swimming? Is he afraid of getting a cramp or what?

Spaw (trying to deteriorate this simpleass thread into oblivion)


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: GUEST,Lee
Date: 04 Jun 00 - 03:09 PM

John Evans,

If you're serious I've found World Vision to be an excellent organisation with which to be associated. They do sensational work.

Lee


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 04 Jun 00 - 04:21 PM

In case anyone who followed Frank of Harlow's link to Jonathan Swift's proposal didn't realise this, the Irish-born Swift was neither a monster nor given to jokes in bad taste. His game was satire.

I guess Spaw really takes the biscuit (which will not help him lose weight) for sneaking back into this thread after unilaterally declaring it dead with posting number 92. Obviously he's angling for the last word whatever number posting it takes. In which case we should be able to spin this thread out till it makes the record books....

Margo's right to blame the USA's lead in the obesity stakes on a rotten diet, but wrong to make excuses for that rotten diet. A banana is just as convenient as a bar of candy, and it comes in a biodegradable wrapper. As for all that ernest debate about soda, some way up the thread, what's wrong with unsweetened fruit juice, and even plain old nil-calory water? So diet's part of it, but so is sedentary lifestyle, which hasn'thad much of a mention yet. At least I pedal 10-15 miles regularly to the nearest towns round here, but I'm still overweight. We're designed to do much more physical work than we actually do.

Finally (not that I'm trying to do a Spaw) the reason we Brits are so panicked by what's going on over there is because we see ourselves heading in the same direction, just like lemmings.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Jun 00 - 08:02 PM

Naw Fionn - there's Frank McGrath of Nenagh, and Kevin McGrath of Harlow. I was the one with the link to The Modest Proposal(the point being that when it comes to offending the well-fed bourgeousie, John Evans was being pretty gentle about it compared to the righteous Dean Swift).

And spaw, Mo is short for Maureen, and she's the one who made the right moves in getting the peace process in Northern Ireland on track at a crucial time.

Whiskey and potatoes are a fine balanced diet. You mix them up, but inside you. Or if you've the skill the potatoes make good poitin too. A versatile fruit indeed.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jun 00 - 08:04 PM

mo mowlam is a woman catspaw


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Jun 00 - 09:21 PM

Great.....I'm now enlightened which should make me less fat.................

Sorry Fionn.......This thread caused a boatload of xenophobic and other crappola and I should have known better than to suggest we kill it. It went about 14 hours and I was hopeful, but it didn't happen. Next I tried completely stupid BS that was so worthless that I figured it would send the thing into the shitter....But I forgot that this was Mudcat and we have a great need to answer everything. Did you ever read the "Condom Thread?" Started simply because Art was fed up with all the boilerplate threads like "Where do Mudcatters Live" and about 15 others like it......Art starts the condom thing to point up how silly we were becoming and sure enough it went rocketing past the rest. Oh well...............

So why do y'all call cookies biscuits and biscuits scones? Don't you think it would be good ta git yerseffs all fixed up rite with the language seeuns as ta how yer English an all?

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 04 Jun 00 - 09:45 PM

No spaw, we call cookies, a type of biscuit, cookies but scones aren't any form of biscuit. Come to that, assuming that I'm right in thinking a Graham cracker is like a digestive biscuit, why do you call it a cracker when it is quite obviously a biscuit, and what do you call crackers?

Why do you fill your cars with a liquid and call it gas?... ;-)

Jon

(Who in case anybody misses the ;-) is only joking)


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Jun 00 - 10:10 PM

We call it gas because in its leaded variation it smells like a pork roast fart. Also it worked out better for Woody when he wrote,

So I swapped my farm for a Ford machine
And I pumped her full of that gasoline
And we started....
Rockin and a rollin.....
Cross the deserts and mountains...
All the way out to that California.

Now that'd sound plumb stupid with "petrol" now wouldn't it? Come to think of it, its pretty stupid anyway.

Now "crackers" are thin crispy little jobbies like saltines......and also the name of rednecks in the Georgia/Florida country. Though you can eat the first, I wouldn't advise it with the second, even if his name IS Cookie, unless you have a copy of "Dueling Banjos" handy....and a big club.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 04 Jun 00 - 10:23 PM

Sorry spaw,

I swapped my farm for a car to have some fun
Filled it right up with petroleum....

Jon


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: GUEST,Starfish
Date: 04 Jun 00 - 10:39 PM

Hello!

I was just wondering how much longer this thread will get?


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Jun 00 - 10:44 PM

....Had a feelin'something like that was coming.

But Jon, first they were getting shoved off their land and HAD to move on so it don't seem like much fun to me. And additionally, if they'd been driving an English car, they'couldn't have had any fun since it would have required stopping for repairs every half mile or so and not going out after dark at all!!! Its a little known fact, but during the "Blitz," Londoners did not voluntarily observe blackouts.......It was simply that all the lighting in the city had been supplied by Joe Lucas.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: GUEST,John
Date: 04 Jun 00 - 10:46 PM

Ahhh! Fooled ye!!


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Jun 00 - 10:52 PM

Well Starfish, hopefully its becoming so silly (believe me Jon and I are trying) and so long that the load time will preclude anything else being posted of any real import. Unless some idiot starts a part two, an action which should result in a public caning, I figure its about crapped out.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: GUEST,Starfish
Date: 04 Jun 00 - 10:54 PM

Agreed!


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Jun 00 - 06:55 AM

a coda to the thread


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: GUEST,Starfish
Date: 05 Jun 00 - 07:10 AM

Well, that puts a whole different slant on it, doesn't it?

'Spaw will be pleased


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 05 Jun 00 - 05:46 PM

I just have to come back once more, if only to apologise to McGrath of Harlow. but I'm bound to get in a muddle Kevin, when a name gets to more than two words long.

And thanks for bringing farts back into it Spaw - I tried to turn the thread in that direction right up near the top. Truly we are two nations divided by a common language, or whatever GBS said.

See y'all in another thread.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jun 00 - 09:48 PM


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: JedMarum
Date: 20 Sep 00 - 09:36 AM


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: kendall
Date: 20 Sep 00 - 10:10 AM

Plenty of food, but, poor nutrition


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: flattop
Date: 20 Sep 00 - 10:56 AM

Why would you resurrect this thread, Jed? Do you want us to wade through the same old cesspools in our barefeet? Can't you think of a fresh and controversial topic that would allow us to be malicious and cruel while we pretend that we are the most kind and sensitive folk singers with only the best political correct intentions? Couldn't you at least have rephrased the question in a sly and interesting manner so that we could have sent 100 debauched messages before someone pointed out in a blue clicky that we'd dealt with the same crap elsewhere?

Cordially, fla

You originally wrote:

>>Does American the marketplace 'consume' significantly more than that of the developing counties? Almost ceratinly so - does that mean that Americans eat five times the food of those in the rest of the world? Bullshit! Is this discussion not one more example of some asshole trying to prove that the American's are better off then those in (some) other countries because we "stole' their piece of the pie. Most assuredly!


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: GUEST,Katchoo
Date: 20 Sep 00 - 11:07 AM

Stop fucking talking and click through at http://www.thehungersite.com/ and salve your first world middle class conciousnesses. Thank Yew

Katchoo xx


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: JedMarum
Date: 20 Sep 00 - 11:32 AM

Ooops! Sorry folks. The last thing I wanted to do was bring up this thread again. I looked it it up to quote for another thread. I didn't want to re-open this old wound. Sorry about that!


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: flattop
Date: 20 Sep 00 - 12:29 PM

Sorry Jed. Simple mistake. Made one myself once. You can't leave opportunites for people like me to jump in with both feet. We do. I'm a bad one to have around the scene of an accident. Again, I'm sorry.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 20 Sep 00 - 02:29 PM

Well, now that it's posted again,...

... Because Americans are the most unhappy.

The wor'dly race may riches chase

And riches still may fly them O!


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Sep 00 - 03:14 PM

As Katchoo said, click on the hunger site - and do it every day, and stick it on your e-mail signature. It's not a lot, but it's something. If we all did it, it'd be quite a big little something.

I'm still puzzled why anybody found this question and this thread particularly offensive, but since they did, let's tiptoe quietly away and let it fall off the page.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Ely
Date: 20 Sep 00 - 04:05 PM

I don't understand SUV's. My parents shuttled two kids (plus friends and camping gear) in a Toyota Tercel for 12 years. Nobody killed anybody else--my parents talked to us and played music on the tape player to keep us entertained and there were never catastrophes. And, we can now sit in the car for 14 hours straight and not lose our minds (well, it's a handy skill in Texas).

Actually, soda is bad for you, period. I don't mean just the sugar, either. It causes osteoporosis. I forget the exact mechanics of it, though (something to do with the carbonation?). Colas are supposed to be the worst.

I like chicken fried steak on occasions (in general, I rarely eat meat) but even the 12 & under kid's portions were so big I stopped ordering it. I am not a small person but I just couldn't eat it (and I don't care for cold white gravy!).


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: MichaelAnthony
Date: 21 Sep 00 - 02:34 PM

Not sure if any one mentioned conditions like thyroid disease and depression, etc...to be fair some are fat because of that. I know that doesn't really answer the question about why Americans are so fat...


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 21 Sep 00 - 02:42 PM

I can't believe that people (not you Jed) seem to want to keep this thread alive. It upset a lot of people at the time and in fact proved to be the last straw for one regular poster here.

Just my opionion but isn't this one just best left to disappear again?

Jon


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Elise
Date: 21 Sep 00 - 08:02 PM

Could be all the Kraft mac and cheese...


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: bflat
Date: 21 Sep 00 - 08:30 PM

Maybe because we are so social. People always want to get together and that leads to eating together. Maybe it is depression because we hate the pace and expectations of our lives and eat to assuage our true feelings. Maybe it is the feeling of big is better which seems to be an American ethos. Step in tune; step in tune!! Maybe we are sick.

bflat


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Sep 00 - 08:39 PM

Why are Americans so fat?

Go to Cuba and you will see why. In America there is:

Too much TV.

Too many Nintendos.

Too many consumer goods.

Too much advertising.

Too much media.

Too much loneliness and isolation.

Too much money in place of all other considerations.

Too many "labour-saving" devices, such as the TV remote.

Too many pointless lawsuits.

Too many cell phones.

Too many cars.

Too many fast food joints.

Too much junk food.

Too much social inequity.

Too many slums and needless poverty.

Too little medical coverage.

Too much talk ABOUT freedom, too little practice of same.

Not enough real life. Not enough community. And not enough love.

Cuba ain't perfect (by no means), but it beats America in all of the above areas.

I live in Canada, where, I am sad to say, it is much the same as in the USA, except that we do at least have the free medical coverage...until the neo-conservative politicians get around to taking it away, that is...which is certainly their present objective...and may they rot in the Hades of their own choice where they can eat dollar bills after everything else has been ruined and obliterated.

By the way, this does not change the fact that most Americans and Canadians are fine and thoroughly likeable people...despite the unreality of our respective social systems. People's innate goodness has a way of triumphing over the odds, when it is given time to mature through experience, and gain compassion.

So don't take my posting above as a criticism of YOU. It is not intended as such.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: hesperis
Date: 21 Sep 00 - 11:26 PM

Ordinary medical services are covered in Canada, but often not the stuff that actually cures people!!!

Health Canada seems to me to just be a subsidy for the big drug companies, to the detriment of real health.

But at least they take care of broken bones and other acute injuries fairly well.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Nov 04 - 08:01 AM

Plump Americans hit airline profits". Could this be the one language they understand? LOL!


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Nick
Date: 05 Nov 04 - 09:01 AM

If this continues by the year 2804 the average American will weigh the same as a female African elephant. Huge opportunities for door manufacturers, furniture designers, house builders etc etc


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Nick
Date: 05 Nov 04 - 09:02 AM

Designer shoes may take a bit of a bashing though.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 05 Nov 04 - 09:48 AM

Was this a JOhn from Hull thread before his keyboard got dyslexia?

RtS
PS Why is dyslexia so difficult to spell? Why does monosyllabic have so many syllables? Where's me tea?


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Nick
Date: 05 Nov 04 - 10:10 AM

Daily sex.

Can't beat it.

Can't spell it.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 05 Nov 04 - 10:24 AM

OK, I've only skimmed this thread, but rather than start a whole new one, I'm going to say the unthinkable...

Why are so many Mudcatters so fat?

I mean no disrespect here, but I've also been looking at the Events Pics, and children, there is not a gaunt or starved looking soul amongst us. On the contrary, there's enough heft to sink a not-so-small three masted schooner.

So, come on- WESTERNERS are a bunch of fatties. Are you by chance suggesting we all diet and send the extra oreos to Sudan?

I'll volunteer to cut back my caloric intake in the form of junk food, if everyone else will. Any takers?

Hmmmm somehow I think not...

;-D

..xx..e


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Kim C
Date: 05 Nov 04 - 10:30 AM

This isn't just an American problem, though. I picked up a German magazine - I believe it was Focus - awhile back, that had a huge spread on obesity in Germany.

I think most of us who live in a desk-job culture are finding ourselves with a little more padding in the seat. Our time-saving gadgets save us so much time, that we cram so many things into the "saved" time, till we don't have time to take care of ourselves. And our desk jobs are sometimes so ridiculous, that by the time we get home in the evening, all we want to do is spread out on the couch.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Maryrrf
Date: 05 Nov 04 - 10:35 AM

This morning I had to pick up 8 dozen donuts at Krispy Kreme for an office event. I see why Americans are so fat - the place was mobbed. I might eat a Krispy Kreme once in a blue moon but lots of people eat stuff like this on a daily basis -and it's fattening. You could see the donuts frying in hot oil and then being coated by being run through a waterfall of sugar glaze.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: The Beast of Farlington
Date: 05 Nov 04 - 10:48 AM

Mmm...fat Americans...I can only eat one, though.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: muppett
Date: 05 Nov 04 - 10:59 AM

Now, now children we're bickering again stop it or you wont get your pocket money this weekend, now come on kiss & make up.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: The Beast of Farlington
Date: 05 Nov 04 - 11:13 AM

Eh?


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: muppett
Date: 05 Nov 04 - 11:38 AM

Not you beast it's t'other folk I'm on abart.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Nov 04 - 05:31 PM

You're mistaken, Ellenpoly. I am lean and trim. Look at my photos if you don't believe it.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Nov 04 - 08:55 PM

Ellenpoly...I am 87.0237% sure that there is 'some' relationship between being overweight and our hobbies/avocations. If one geneticly tends toward fat, it is not as likely one will take up ski jumping or rollerskating. Singing...or sewing...or painting is much easier to do.

This is obviously not a hard & fast rule, but it can affect what you have noticed, a 'tendency' for folkies to be above average in weight. Add to that our fondness for beer and conviviality, and you get a trend. I know a number of Mudcatters who ARE thin, but many who are not, and not all of them can easily control it.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: dianavan
Date: 05 Nov 04 - 09:14 PM

Cars, fast food and alcohol (excluding wine of course).

...and world starvation is a result of distribution problems not lack of food.

d


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 05 Nov 04 - 09:43 PM

Could American cadavers be harvested for ivory? Ivory for necessary things like frets and keyboards - not morbid things like jewelry.



Sincerely,

Gargoyle



I adore seeing the plump-pussy's-postings in threads related to mine.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Nov 04 - 11:41 PM

dianavan...that is a serious misunderstanding of the situation. Yes...if all the food available could be 'distributed' equally, with no waste, we could probably feed most everyone. But it just doesnt work like that and never did. We have always had famines at various places, no matter what the total global supply. The energy required to get food from source to consumer is never in balance.

Plus, we are really, truly, honestly depleting major sources! The Grand Banks are almost empty, the Salmon runs are at a low ebb, the arable farm land is being paved over, the sources of feed for livestock are not being managed.......all the while, our population keeps growing.

One of these days, even the math that says "there is enough if distribution problems were solved" wont even be true...if it still is.

Starvation is a practical matter, not a statistical matter.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 06 Nov 04 - 12:59 AM

Ah Little Hawk, I knew you'd pipe in, you svelte godlike creature!

I did say many, not all, ya know. I'm also not tipping the scales to the point where I can't see them. But my position remains...if we were to look at our respective weights as another thread is doing with our respective ages...I think we might well prove to be the norm for Westerners.

Time for breakfast! ;-D

..xx..e


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 06 Nov 04 - 03:58 AM

I think I can still squeeze into plane seat......

Cost of fat air passengers takes off
By Marcus Warren in New York
(Filed: 06/11/2004)

Fat Americans are eating into the US air industry's bottom line, forcing planes to consume ever more fuel to transport their bulk.

The average weight of Americans rose by 10lb during the 1990s and what a new survey called this "additional adiposity" caused airlines to use a further 350 million gallons of fuel in 2000, at a cost of £149 million. This is hitting the environment with an extra 3.8 million tons of carbon dioxide being released into the atmosphere.

Bankrupt United Airlines, America's second biggest air travel company, recently announced that it would spend £650 million more than expected on fuel this year because of rising oil prices.

To reduce the weight carried by their planes, airlines have dumped metal cutlery and large magazines and want to use lighter materials in seating. But passenger size is more difficult to control.

To howls of outrage from the country's "fat acceptance" lobby, Southwest Airlines has begun asking larger travellers to purchase a second seat.

"The obesity epidemic has unexpected consequences beyond direct health effects," said Dr Deron Burton of the US Centre for Disease Control and Prevention, which published the findings. "Our goal was to highlight one area that had not been looked at before."

America's eating habits have been blamed for a lower than expected rise in life expectancy and dearer health insurance but never before for contributing to the woes of a whole sector of the economy.

A commuter plane crash that killed 21 people in North Carolina last year has been blamed on the passengers' greater than average weight.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Hand-Pulled Boy
Date: 06 Nov 04 - 05:10 AM

Should excess baggage weight just apply to one's luggage? Anyone over 18 stone should pay more or buy two seats. Better still they shouldn't be allowed anywhere near an airport 'cos they will probably smell.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Nov 04 - 12:07 PM

I remember Bob Dylan, back in 1964 or something like that, being asked by the press if he was a "folksinger".

"When I hear the word 'folksinger'," he said, "I see a room full of fat old people playing guitars." (he was clearly referring to the previous generation of folk players and their hootnenannys...seems like things haven't changed much at all).


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: fat B****rd
Date: 06 Nov 04 - 04:24 PM

'ere, Skiffler, you never told me you'd been drinking my Chardonnay all those years ago.
Why are Americans fat ?? Why is anybody fat ?? 'cos they eat too F***ing much. Any rate that's why I am.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Tam the Bam (Nutter)
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 11:03 AM

because they eat too much fatty foods like the Australians and the British and the other rich lands were food is in plenty.
And not only that but the Australians or the majority of them don't excirse they drive about in their cars, my sister Jean is a fine example, she's a big fat lazy lump who eats the wrong food and does very little excerise and then she blames her 'ms' on her illness, she's just a fat lazy pig, and I wish that she would excirse more, mind you I'm just slighty over weight but her she's puit on more wieght last time I saw her, and we as family have trying to tell her to lose the fat, but she doesn't want to know.
She has a heart condtion as well.
So there you go, I love my sister Jean I want to her to lose weight that's all, I haven't told that she's a fat lazy pig but there are times when I hear her excsuses why she can't do tihngs, she has MS but it's the fat that tires her out, I just feel so sorry for her and the rest of my family.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: GUEST,Pa!g3
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 04:23 PM

Canadians watch an average of 23 hours of television per week which works out to about ummmmm, 1196 hours a year! WOW! We need ter get of our asses and do something!!!!!! ;)


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: annamill
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 07:35 PM

I CAN"T EAT GRAINS AND VEGGIES!! TOO MANY CARBS!!

The jobs I have had, up to recently anyway, have been sitting on my ass jobs. Programmer, bank teller.

Recently I became a security guard and I have been walking. Boy, have I been walking! I have been doing this for 3 weeks now.

I've lost 15 lbs!! Amazing! This summer...bikini again! For the first time, in, oh, 10 years!!

BTW, I feel great! Not much money mind you. So what, (now listen to this carefully) Money isn't everything! It took me a real long time to find this out.

Money isn't everything. Amazing to hear ME say this.

Well, anyway, congratulate me. I am no long one of those fat Americans AND it was easy. Just walk! For 8 hours a day. ;-)

Love, Annamill


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 08:28 PM

First of all Americans are really no more fat percentage wise than any other wealthy nation. Before you go flaming me please here the facts. The fact is that the Body Mass Indicator, that which is used to measure whether someone is overweight/obese is based on a medium framed man of 5' 10" with a weight of approx. 150 lbs. According to this BMI which scientists keep trying to tell the insurance companies and the whitehouse is just one tool in the toolbox, people like the Pres. and Brad Pit are overwight (yeah right). It does make some allowances for different frames (small, medium, large, and extra large) and measurments are done around the neck, waist, and wrist. Supposedly the neck and wrist will not change in size. In my case they have. It does not - I repeat, - it does not take into account the different morphic shapes of the body. There are alot of people with small necks who because of a larger pelvic girdle come out overweight. There are people who have necks as wide as their heads who are actually overweight who get a pass. Short people are just plain screwed and so are folks like me. Average folks are two to four inches larger at the chest than their waist (when fit). My waist size is forty inches and my chest size is 50 inches (barrel chested) because of this their is an appropriate amount of weight that isn't factored into the equation.

The insurance companies want us to be in as close to this spurious data because if we are supposedly this skinny they'll never have to pay out again. But don't look for your premiums to go down.

And food for thought here, ask the Aussies what happens when you store a great deal of grain with alot of mice around.

Then on top of that we have people fighting genetically modified foods that are modified to grow in drought conditions and be bug and disease resistant (see we're helping but nobody wants the stuff).

And by the way, shipping out our excess crops doesn't always work because the people we ship them to have different normal diets and this sometimes causes severe gastric problems and dissentary which causes even more death.

And finally, as Sam Kinison so eloquently pointed out:

"See this? Yeah, it's sand, yeah sand!
Move to wear the food is...Ahhhhhh Ahhhhh!

end rant


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: GUEST,Chief Chaos
Date: 18 Nov 04 - 12:43 PM

I can't recall who posted it but:

SUVs don't cause more crashes. To be specific it would be the driver that causes the crash to begin with. It's not that the SUVs cause crashes but that some of the cars that are on our roads are turbo charged four cylinders that aren't built well enough to withstand a collision with a telephone pole at 25 MPH. They then get into an accident with an SUV which is bigger and heavier and also moving and end up getting killed. The statistic says that collisions with SUVs cause more deaths which is true but for the reason I already gave. The statistic doesn't bother to mention who was at fault for the accident. Leaving this out seems to make people think they are more dangerous.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 18 Nov 04 - 12:45 PM

TOO MUCH FAST FOOD!!


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: GUEST,Chief Chaos
Date: 18 Nov 04 - 03:40 PM

A study just came out that links lack of sleep to weight gain. Could that possibly be a reason? Working too much (unlike our lazy european bretheren who get more holidays and a shorter work week?)


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: annamill
Date: 18 Nov 04 - 07:32 PM

Might be true Chief. I've been sleeping a whole lot better since I start walking 8 hrs a day. ;-)


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Pogo
Date: 18 Nov 04 - 09:39 PM

So we can...SIT on people who ask questions like this!!!!

Bwahahahahaha *burbly fat laugh*

As well as...uhmmm *thinks* enemies to freedom!!!

" What about elevensies? Second breakfast? "

{O)

*eats another burger*


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: dianavan
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 05:39 PM

kelida - You say, "we also give more in charity, relief and aide to struggling nations than any other nation on earth."

You are so wrong. The U.S. (because of its greed and overconsumption) creates conflict, displacement, hunger and disease to more nations than any other nation on earth. Not to mention the general suffering caused by their aggression.

If they paid more attention to the needs of their own citizenry, the world would be a better place.

d


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 10:55 PM

I've read that 2/3 of Americans are considered overweight.

Just read that last year the UK government released statistics showing that 70% of UK men and 63% of women are considered overweight.

Anybody else read this? I don't know if this is based on body mass index or what.

It was in an article about the UK Department of Health recommending that the government both ban smoking in public places (discussed in the thread about that) and also pressure junk-food marketers to limit their prime-time TV commercials.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: rich-joy
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 05:19 AM

see relevant thread : "film - Supersize Me by Morgan Spurlock "



Cheers! R-J


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: GUEST,Terry K
Date: 21 Nov 04 - 05:19 AM

It's a generalisation, I know, but whenever I go to the States I'm still amazed at how fat the people are. Seems to me that the people who put counter-arguments are simply "in denial".

In the UK we have at last got a consciousness that too much food and too little exercise - both products of our wealth as a nation - are the real issues. We've still got a long way to go before we get as bad as the USA, but it is going to be a long, hard struggle to re-educate people into healthier lifestyles.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Chief Chaos
Date: 21 Nov 04 - 08:43 PM

Our "Consciousness" is killing our young girls. They see these "so-called" models who must be healthy, since they look like that, and go bulemic or anorexic trying to look like them. It's unrealistic to believe that you can set a standard and force everyone into it. Every blood test I take says that I'm in perfect health. If that were all the doctors went on I'd be fine and dandy, but they keep trying to force me into this mold of theirs. With everything else going on, we've got much more important things to be worried about!


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Gervase
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 07:13 AM

Plenty more to worry about now, but the fat issue is going to have to be paid for at some time. Being fat isn't healthy, and a nation of lard-arses (whether it's the USA, UK or Australia) is going to find that it hasn't got the money for schools and other nice things because its health bills are bloody huge.
Sure, plenty of people are happy being fat and flabby, but they're still damaging themselves. "Fat Acceptance" is another term for pig-headed selfishness. Don't do this denial crap - If you're fat it means you eat too much of the wrong stuff and don't take enough exercise. Full stop.
And if you don't agree, chase me!


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Moses
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 07:48 AM

How many (really) fat old people do you know? Those who live to a healthy old age are mostly small framed and lean.

Just getting older puts enough strain on the body without us adding to it.

Being overweight shortens lifespan;- imagine carrying two heavy bags of shopping everywhere all the time. That's what being overweight means to me. I don't want to do that - call me lazy but I'd rather carry just me and not the equivalent of half another person thank you very much!

And, no, it's not easy keeping the weight off - it's a constant wrestle with gluttony as fattening food tastes so good.

I think the universal 24/7 availability of quick fix snacks in the so-called developed countries is the reason why so many people are fat. If it's not in the larder, glove box or office drawer you can't eat it.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 08:01 AM

As some others have pointed out, folkies, especially singers, are definitely not immmune.

And it's a real shame too--some really wonderful people with great wit, great voices and instrumental talent are shortening their own lives by not being serious enough about the weight problem----some seem to lurch from one radical diet to another----but are still not making progress---then they have knee and leg problems and so it goes.

Dancers, on the other hand, are frequently in pretty good shape. Maybe music people (before they get to the leg injury stage)---could dance more. They'd at least be hearing good music---if the band was good.


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 09:10 AM

Have a fag. They help keep the weight off. I combine smoking with healthy outdoor pursuits such as fox hunting, which keeps my weight down to about 12 stone. Eat plenty of venison too!


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: Gervase
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 09:48 AM

Moses has a good point I think the universal 24/7 availability of quick fix snacks in the so-called developed countries is the reason why so many people are fat. If it's not in the larder, glove box or office drawer you can't eat it.
Cooking seems to be a middle-class fad or luxury now. For most people it's easier to driver to a supermarket and grab something off the shelf that's ready-prepared than it is to make it in the first place, and much of the stuff on supermarket shelves is loaded with fat, salt and sugar.
The answer lies in self-discipline, and that's hard (as a smoker I know just how hard!). Without it, though, obesity will become the major killer of the 21st century. Maybe it's as well for the rest of us that Republicans seem to be fatter and more stupid than Democrats!


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Subject: RE: Why are Americans so fat?
From: GUEST,Chief Chaos
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 01:05 PM

I'm starting to wonder what the problem is. I mean after all, what a way to save the economy and social security. Consume consume consume. Spend spend spend. Gets the economy on its feet and you die years before being able to claim any benefits. All they have to do is say the difibrulator won't work thru the fat and the situation resolves itself!


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