Thought for the dayt - June 3, 2000

Subject: Thought for the dayt - June 3, 2000
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Jun 00 - 08:24 AM

Going to sea is going to prison,
with a chance at drowning besides.

- Samuel Johnson -

Quoted in The Perfect Storm by Sebastian Junger (written before the movie and with very interesting historical tidbits throughout.)

Subject: RE: Thought for the dayt - June 3, 2000
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Jun 00 - 08:27 AM

Ah well, Joe if you read this, might you fix the title, please? Thanks....kat

Subject: RE: Thought for the dayt - June 3, 2000
From: keltcgrasshoppper
Date: 03 Jun 00 - 08:37 AM

Good morning Kat and all... Having spent a great deal of time on an Island.. where many of our friends are fisherman and women..I understand that quote.. But I have found that most feel a respect for the sea and the boat captains..who are really the only two beings that decide if you make it back or not.....I have heard stories about waves so high that made you feel as if you were ontop of a mountain and then of course the mountain will fall from under you.. My girlfriend is a lobster fisherwoman.. one of the first women to work on a boat on Prince Edward Island.. she loves, hates and fears her work..but would NEVER give it up...It is also interesting that most of the people who fish DONT know how to swim...KGH

Subject: RE: Thought for the dayt - June 3, 2000
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 03 Jun 00 - 02:08 PM

Good book kat
Have you read it? I couldn't put it down.
The movie comes out this month and I can't wait to see it.
There is a new book out on the Sussex, a whale hunting ship that was sunk in the early 1800 by a pissed off whale. Out of 28 men on the crew only 8 survived. I was just looking at that book this morning in the bookstore.
I find these kinds of writings so fascinating.
These men live such challenging lives.

Bonnie

Subject: RE: Thought for the dayt - June 3, 2000
From: Amergin
Date: 03 Jun 00 - 02:43 PM

I've seen a documentary about that storm. It was kinda heart wrenching hearing all these people talk about their loved ones who sank with the Andrea Gail. I had a first mate once who who used to fish off of Alaska. He said that more fisherman die every year from pissing on off the back deck. Telling us he'd rather us pee on the stern deck, then pee into the ocean. God, those were good days...

Subject: RE: Thought for the day- June 3, 2000
From: JenEllen
Date: 03 Jun 00 - 02:45 PM

I never felt more alive than I did on the water. There was never an element of 'prison'. The ocean seems to be MotherNature's slate cleaner, she takes you not as others might find you, but exactly as you are. It's humbling, but also incredibly invigorating, and I can't say that I was never terrified for my life either. I only suppose it would be prison if you'd left your heart ashore.

~Elle

Subject: RE: Thought for the dayt - June 3, 2000
From: GUEST,Valerie
Date: 03 Jun 00 - 03:01 PM

Oh Pleease

Subject: RE: Thought for the dayt - June 3, 2000
From: JenEllen
Date: 03 Jun 00 - 03:59 PM

No, please...allow me...

Who do YOU think would enjoy the ocean more? A 22 year old girl out riding the waves and tagging whales for a summer externship? Or a 50 year old fisherman who's been out for months at a time, leaving his family at home, missing weddings, graduations, first steps, etc? That would sure as hell be prison to me.

~Elle

Subject: RE: Thought for the dayt - June 3, 2000
From: Amergin
Date: 03 Jun 00 - 04:07 PM

Alot of fishermen that I've known absolutely love what they do. They wouldn't have it any other way.

Subject: RE: Thought for the dayt - June 3, 2000
From: Mbo
Date: 03 Jun 00 - 04:21 PM

Witness the Dougie MacLean song, The Mhairi Bhan.

--Mbo

Subject: RE: Thought for the dayt - June 3, 2000
From: GUEST,Valerie
Date: 03 Jun 00 - 04:34 PM

They wouldn't be much use to anybody if they forgot to bring their heart along

Subject: RE: Thought for the dayt - June 3, 2000
From: keltcgrasshoppper
Date: 03 Jun 00 - 04:44 PM

I think that the quote may be speaking to the feeling of being trapped...When you are at sea and you can see for miles the storms seem to chase you.. You can see them coming and have to race them to shore.. and if the sea wins you do stand the chance of death at sea.... KGH

Subject: RE: Thought for the dayt - June 3, 2000
From: GUEST,Valerie
Date: 03 Jun 00 - 04:53 PM

bollex

Subject: RE: Thought for the dayt - June 3, 2000
From: Amos
Date: 03 Jun 00 - 08:27 PM

The author of the quote, Johnson, was renowned as a heartless and pompous, condescending supercilious elitist. The author of the statement "I only suppose it would be prison if you'd left your heart ashore. is a welll known Mudcatter given to healing those who need healing, laughoing with those who have earned it, weeping for beauty or joy, and occasionally swinging from the deck against those who engage in supcilious condescension. In this world you take your own free choice of what kinds of people and what kinds of beliefs you wish to associate with, but personally I'd back Jen against Dr Johnson any day of the week.

Noone who has spent time at sea other than as an meretricious idler like Johnson could come up with a quote like his.

A

Subject: RE: Thought for the dayt - June 3, 2000
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Jun 00 - 08:59 PM

Well, the book which uses the quote is good, as Bonnie said. Thanks for the elucidation, Amos, and I agree with you as to betting on our Jen against old Johnson.

Personally, I would feel quite claustrophobic on a ship at sea, I think; probably pace back and forth like a caged animal. Never could understand the allure of nothing solid beneath your feet, probably from being raised in the mountains.

The book itself is fascinating and includes several other quotes, as well as some interesting history of men and ships at sea, especially in the Georges Bank area. I have been thinking of DaveTAM while reading it, knowing he must be called out for rescues in the very areas I am reading about.

kat

Subject: RE: Thought for the dayt - June 3, 2000
From: Mbo
Date: 03 Jun 00 - 09:09 PM

Yeah, and Johnson didn't like Scots either! What a bum!

--Mbo

Subject: RE: Thought for the dayt - June 3, 2000
From: kendall
Date: 03 Jun 00 - 09:10 PM

Having spent much of my adult life at sea as: a seaman aboard a 311 foot CG Cutter on search & rescue duty, plus weather patrol in places like the Davis Straits, then as Captain of a state patrol boat in the Maine Warden service, then as an enforcement officer with the National Marine Fisheries service, then as a recreational thing on various sail boats, then again as Captain, I can tell you the difference. If you must be there in any weather, it can be hell. However, if you are in charge, and its just fun, then it can be quite rewarding. Definition of work..anything you HAVE to do.

Subject: RE: Thought for the dayt - June 3, 2000
From: MarkS
Date: 03 Jun 00 - 09:23 PM

"He was an old man and he fished alone in a skiff on the gulfstream, and he had gone eighty-two days now without taking a fish"

You want to know fishing? "The Old Man and the Sea" by Hemmingway.

You will remember it.

Subject: RE: Thought for the dayt - June 3, 2000
From: kendall
Date: 03 Jun 00 - 10:28 PM

That was one hell of a story

Subject: RE: Thought for the dayt - June 3, 2000
From: Amos
Date: 04 Jun 00 - 01:57 AM

Kat, the thing that makes or break people on this subject (accepting Kendall's point about those who must be there regardless of conditions) is along this line, I think. You can see yourself confined to a small and maybe safe platform at risk in a huge hostile environment, or you can see yourself at large in an amazing, constantly changing, constantly beautiful and constantly challenging environment where the horizons are big enough for anyone to feel fully expanded in. When I worked ships, it was mostly the latter point of view I took, and it was only when extremely fatigued, chilled, or afraid that I found myself retreating to the more material perspective of just trying to stay safe. Some folks, especially those given to motion sickness, general timidity, or just people with little familiarity or tolerance for such a highly random place as the sea, would tend to start from a tight grip on the physical "defenses" of the boat and not move outward from that unless they had some kind of epiphany, such as meeting a whale, or seeing a rainbow. I guess it is a bit of a generalization to use two broad classes like this, I am sure there all sorts of shades of gray in between, but that's how I saw it at the time years ago.

A.