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What's the matter with East Virginia?

DigiTrad:
EAST VIRGINIA
GREENBACK DOLLAR
GREENBACK DOLLAR 2
I DON"T WANT YOUR MILLIONS, MISTER


Related threads:
Lyr Req: West Virginia? / East Virginia (8)
Help: Age of East Virginia TWO (22)
Lyr Add: Bored In East Virginia (4)
(origins) Help: Age of 'East Virginia'? (87)
Lyr Req: Greenback Dollar Bill (from Louis Prima) (12)
Lyr Add: Who Is at My Window Weeping? (4)
Lyr Req: East Virginia (Blues) (2) (closed)


The Shambles 04 Jun 00 - 07:09 AM
Jon Freeman 04 Jun 00 - 07:39 AM
Pixie 04 Jun 00 - 10:19 AM
Banjer 04 Jun 00 - 10:27 AM
Gary T 04 Jun 00 - 10:54 AM
The Shambles 04 Jun 00 - 11:13 AM
Jon Freeman 04 Jun 00 - 11:37 AM
Sandy Paton 04 Jun 00 - 10:41 PM
raredance 05 Jun 00 - 12:13 AM
Gary T 05 Jun 00 - 12:21 AM
dulcimer 05 Jun 00 - 08:26 AM
McGrath of Harlow 05 Jun 00 - 12:31 PM
The Shambles 05 Jun 00 - 01:17 PM
paddymac 05 Jun 00 - 03:39 PM
MMario 05 Jun 00 - 03:54 PM
Amergin 05 Jun 00 - 04:45 PM
Sandy Paton 05 Jun 00 - 09:28 PM
SINSULL 06 Jun 00 - 04:45 PM
paddymac 07 Jun 00 - 04:12 PM
Ebbie 08 Jun 00 - 11:01 AM
Amos 07 Sep 09 - 03:20 PM
Bobert 07 Sep 09 - 03:50 PM
catspaw49 07 Sep 09 - 04:04 PM
Bruce MacNeill 07 Sep 09 - 04:09 PM
Bobert 07 Sep 09 - 07:19 PM
Leadfingers 07 Sep 09 - 07:39 PM
Peace 07 Sep 09 - 08:05 PM
Padre 07 Sep 09 - 09:14 PM
Don Firth 07 Sep 09 - 09:42 PM
Ebbie 07 Sep 09 - 09:49 PM
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Subject: What's the matter with East Virginia?
From: The Shambles
Date: 04 Jun 00 - 07:09 AM

I found one song in the DT about East Virginia and it was advising the East Virginia girls not to go with West Virginia boys.

Why is West Virginia so featured in song and East Virginia not?


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Subject: Lyr Add: EAST VIRGINIA BLUES
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 04 Jun 00 - 07:39 AM

Heres's another for you, Shambles:

EAST VIRGINIA BLUES

I was born in East Virginia
North Carolina I did go
There I met a fair, young maiden
And her name, I did not know

On her hair was dark and curly
Cheeks were roses red
Oh, her breast she wore my clear leaf
Where I longer tolay my head

I don't want your greenback dollar
I don't want your watch and chain
All I want is your heart, darling
Say you'll take ma back again

The oceans deep and I can't wade in
And I have no wings to fly
I'll escape, my blue-eyed, boat land
Float or roll me over time

I'll go back to East Virginia
North Carolina ain't my home
I'll go back to East Virginia
Leave them north Carolina alone

Jon


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Subject: RE: What's the matter with East Virginia?
From: Pixie
Date: 04 Jun 00 - 10:19 AM

Hey, Jon, thanks for the new words to one of my favorite tunes!

In appreciation Pixie


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Subject: RE: What's the matter with East Virginia?
From: Banjer
Date: 04 Jun 00 - 10:27 AM

Shambles, the reason one doesn't hear much of East Virginia is because it isn't a state like West Virgina is.


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Subject: RE: What's the matter with East Virginia?
From: Gary T
Date: 04 Jun 00 - 10:54 AM

Shambles, check out "Arkansas Boys" in the database. Essentially the same song, different states (Missouri/Arkansas). A note there indicates that an earlier (perhaps original) version was about Virginia/Carolina. Apparently, in time-honored fold tradition, one plugs in the names of the states one wishes to uphold/castigate. I have seen a version called "Kansas Boys"--can't remember what the other state was. I've been told that the East Virginia/West Virginia version was in response to the American Civil War, which was when West Virginia (pro-union, anti-slavery) separated out of Virginia, which seceded the union and join the Confederacy.

As mentioned, East Virginia is not a state. I imagine the term was used to indicate the state of Virginia for a while after the state of West Virginia was created in order to minimize confusion. It's also possible that some use the term to mean eastern Virginia.

Also in the database is a version of "East Virginia", referred to by Pixie and Jon--same opening line(s).


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Subject: RE: What's the matter with East Virginia?
From: The Shambles
Date: 04 Jun 00 - 11:13 AM

Many thanks to all.


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Subject: RE: What's the matter with East Virginia?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 04 Jun 00 - 11:37 AM

I hadn't searched the DT for East Virginia, I has assumed Shambles had gone through the Virginia's so I used "Green Back Dollar" which interestingly enough does bring up a song - maybe the one I have heard is a cross between the two.

The tune I know is different to the one in the DT

Jon


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Subject: RE: What's the matter with East Virginia?
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 04 Jun 00 - 10:41 PM

Kansas girls were warned to avoid Texas boys, even though the states share no common border, as do the states in most other versions of the song (Virginia/West Virginia, Missouri/Arkansas). Seems to me they just chose to skip over Oklahoma. In spite of our fine Oklahoma Mudcatters, that always seemed a good idea to me. Last time I was there I was almost kidnapped by a swarm of Oklahoma mosquitos! Had me halfway off the ground before I managed to fight free. 'Course I had just slid in from Arkansas, so they probably thought I was fair game.

Sandy


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Subject: RE: What's the matter with East Virginia?
From: raredance
Date: 05 Jun 00 - 12:13 AM

"East" Virginia is also the site of the Great Dismal Swamp.

rich r


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Subject: RE: What's the matter with East Virginia?
From: Gary T
Date: 05 Jun 00 - 12:21 AM

Rich, I read a book about the Great Dismal. Fascinating place with a rich history.


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Subject: RE: What's the matter with East Virginia?
From: dulcimer
Date: 05 Jun 00 - 08:26 AM

Sandy--not sure when the words were written, but long before Ok was a state, Kansas towns were rail heads for cattle which were driven up from Texas. After months on the trail, cowboys in town would be the cause for concern.


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Subject: RE: What's the matter with East Virginia?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Jun 00 - 12:31 PM

"What's the matter with East Virginia?" - isn't this kind of headline on a thread just another of these divisive plots for setting Mudcatters against each other.

What have these poor people in East Virginia done to harm anyone anyway, that we should allow them mto be scapegoated in this way? Clearly the underlying implication is that they must be fat or something...


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Subject: RE: What's the matter with East Virginia?
From: The Shambles
Date: 05 Jun 00 - 01:17 PM

Sorry.


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Subject: RE: What's the matter with East Virginia?
From: paddymac
Date: 05 Jun 00 - 03:39 PM

I don't immediately recall the dates, but I believe the sequence was that Virginia seceded from the Union, then West Virginia seceded from Virginia and "re-joined" the Union.


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Subject: RE: What's the matter with East Virginia?
From: MMario
Date: 05 Jun 00 - 03:54 PM

then there is the fact that there's a lot more out there about just plain old Virginia....since the isn't any "East Virginia"


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Subject: RE: What's the matter with East Virginia?
From: Amergin
Date: 05 Jun 00 - 04:45 PM

I think its just a region of Virginia like North Idaho is just a region of Idaho, not a state in and of itself.

Amergin


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Subject: RE: What's the matter with East Virginia?
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 05 Jun 00 - 09:28 PM

Yeah, they had to cross Indian Territory (later to be Oklahoma) to get to those railheads, too. Guess it was just too far to try to go around.

. Actually, my best harvesting buddy in the wheatfields of the 40s was a kid from Henrietta, Oklahoma, named (would you believe?) Johnny Cash. No relation, far as I know. Tough, wiry little sonovagun who could lick his weight in wildcats. He played guitar and sang country songs. We teamed up 'cause I could add a tenor harmony to his lead. We may not have been the Blue Sky Boys, but I thought we sounded pretty darned good. Hooray for Oklahoma!

Sandy


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Subject: RE: What's the matter with East Virginia?
From: SINSULL
Date: 06 Jun 00 - 04:45 PM

Joan Baez recorded another version of East Virginia on one of her first albums. Additional verse to Jon's. It ends:
"And when I'm dead and in my coffin
With my feet turned towards the sun
Come and sit beside me Darlin'
Come and think of the wrong you've done"


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Subject: RE: What's the matter with East Virginia?
From: paddymac
Date: 07 Jun 00 - 04:12 PM

I've been doing some reading about Virginia of late as part of my genealogical digging. The eastern part of the colony, and the current state, was first settled (at least as far as european settlement is concerned) by one group, then followed by others apparently lower on the socio-economioc ladder of the times, who were essentially forced into the hinterlands on the western fringes of the colony. Thus the "east virginia" sentiment seemed to arise as a not entirely complimentary reference to those earlier arrivals who staked out what were then perceived as the best lands. There is yet another phrase - "Tidewater Virginia" which seems to embody much the same sentiment, but I don't know if the two should be considered synonymous. I would like to hear from somebody more knowledgeable than I.


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Subject: RE: What's the matter with East Virginia?
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Jun 00 - 11:01 AM

I believe that the original reason for Virginia's bias against West Virgina was, as someone has already said, the fact that western Virginia, when the various southern states seceded, opted to break off from Virginia and stay with the union. If you've lived in the American south, you are probably aware that the 'war between the states' is not really over- the south will rise again!

As it developed, West Virginia's economy has not thrived as has Virginia's, probably due to poorer soil and more precipitous terrain. The tidewater- the flat land encompassing the regions that include the District of Columbia- had already and remained the home of higher society and government.

So, true or not, the perception is that West Virginia is not as cultured as its mother and without Virginia's tradition of gracious living.

Me, I like them both, but I have to say I think that West Virginia's mountains are prettier- and easier to live in- than the miasmic swamps of the tidewater. Better yet, IMO, are the rolling hills of Virginia's Shenandoah Valley where I lived.

Ebbie


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Subject: RE: What's the matter with East Virginia?
From: Amos
Date: 07 Sep 09 - 03:20 PM

On a musical note, I have just recently discovered the "blue-eyed boatman" verse to this song, which I have known for decades without it.

4. The ocean's deep and I can't wade it
   And I have no wings to fly
   I'll just get me a blue eyed boatman
   Or you'll row me over the tide



Now ain't that a clean line straight back to Carrickfergus, Waly, Waly, The Water is Wide and all that? I swan it is. All of which long predate the existence of green-back dollars.

If this song itself goes back to the eighteenth or early nineteenth century, which I must imagine it does, it is a clear case of adapting old sentiments to new circumstances.


A


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Subject: RE: What's the matter with East Virginia?
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Sep 09 - 03:50 PM

First of all, as Virginny born and Virginny raised, not to mention 20 years livin' in the Panhandle of Wes Ginny, I ain't never heard of East Virginia until today... Only folks not familiar with this area of the universe would use the term East Virginia...

Now that we got that outta the way, what Ebbie said is very accurate in terms of history and current economic circumstances 'cept there are one heck of a lot of good ol' boy Southern rednecks in Wes Ginny just as there is here in Virginny... And lotta confederate flags, too in Wes Ginny...

The reason that you don't hear of songs that are about Eats Virginia is the same reason that folks don't refer to it as East Virginia but simply Virgina or Virginny... "Carry Me Back to Old Virginny" is one that we all learned up in grade school... "My Old Viginia Home" is another...

BTW, there ain't nuthin' wrong with "East" Virginny that ain't wrong with most of the other Southern states in that it is not blessed with a ton of enlightened people, it suffers from poor wages (except NoVa) and many of it's folks haven't gotten over the Civil (which it wasn't) War...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: What's the matter with East Virginia?
From: catspaw49
Date: 07 Sep 09 - 04:04 PM

And let us never forget that Ansted, West Virgimia, is the birthplace of Stonewall Jackson's mother..........................yep............................

See, I leave late at night with almost no money heading for Washington DC back in like '69. I have this $50 savings bond to cash in or otherwise I can't get there and back to Berea so I.................fuckit, its a long story and not all that good but I will never forget being tickled that this town's main pride and claim to fame was Stonewall's mother.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: What's the matter with East Virginia?
From: Bruce MacNeill
Date: 07 Sep 09 - 04:09 PM

Well, since I live about as far east in Virginia as you can get without wearing boots, What's wrong with it is there's nothing here. Now, I like it like this and most of the folks here don't want it to change at all and it probably won't. As to advising the girls not to go with West Virginia boys, our boys don't need the competition and there aren't many girls as it is. Most of this part of Virginia didn't secede during the Civil War. They ignored it. There was one battle up in Chincoteague but it only lasted an hour or so and nobody got hurt. After that they just started drinking and haven't finished yet. Worst thing is we have to import most of the music from across the bay.


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Subject: RE: What's the matter with East Virginia?
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Sep 09 - 07:19 PM

Yeah, Bruce, the Eastern Shore is like, ahhhhhh, sparse... Maybe they just need to open up some of the oceanfront to get more folks in, more McDonalds and red lights every block??? Not!!! Heck I like goin' over there now and then... Assitinque Island and Occracoke are real cool... You can take a beach towel and a picnic basket on the beach and walk 20 minutes up or down the beach and have an entire beach to yerself... Don't need no bathin' suits 'casue ain't noone there... Love that beach...

B~


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Subject: RE: What's the matter with East Virginia?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 07 Sep 09 - 07:39 PM

I make NO claim to be an expert , but having seen quite a bit of Virginia , from the Skyline Driveway to Chincoteague , it is nearly as good as Warwickshire UK !


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Subject: RE: What's the matter with East Virginia?
From: Peace
Date: 07 Sep 09 - 08:05 PM

Why there isn't an "East Virginia."


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Subject: RE: What's the matter with East Virginia?
From: Padre
Date: 07 Sep 09 - 09:14 PM

Well, as one who was born and lived for the first 25 years of my life in Charleston WEST VIRGINIA, but who later in life settled in the Alleghany Highlands of EAST VIRGINIA (although it's most often referred to as Southwest Virginia), I'd like to add a little clarity to the discussion, if I may.

Prior to the War Between the States, VIRGINIA was pretty clearly divided between the plantation economy of the counties east of the Blue Ridge Mountains, and the more hardscrabble farming/mining/timbering areas in the western part of the state (actually Commonwealth, but that's another story - and by the way, who can name the 4 Commonwealths in the United States: two in the South, two in the North).

Anyway, with the coming of the WBTS, the area later to be named WVa was clearly divided on the issue of secession. Those counties in the southern and eastern part had cultural and economic ties with Richmond and that part of the state,and raised militia units which served with distinction in the Confederate Army (such as the Kanawha Riflemen, whose first Captain was George S. Patton Sr.), while the more northern and western counties, especially those bordering the Ohio River, were economically connected to Pittsburgh PA and Cincinnati OH. After the vote for secession was taken, a group of industrialists met in Wheeling and created a rump legislature which petitioned the federal government for admission to the Union. This was granted on June 20, 1863, when WVa became the 35th state.

Padre (Charleston High School, 1959)


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Subject: RE: What's the matter with East Virginia?
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 Sep 09 - 09:42 PM

The way I learned it, it was

    Come on, all you Virginia gals and listen to my noise,
    Don't go with those West Virginia boys. . . .

The less adventurous stay-at-homes (in Virginia) were a bit unhappy about the romantic image of the early frontiersmen as they carved out a place in the wilderness (West Virginia and beyond) and the local girls going ga-ga over them, and tried to warn them that life with one of these romantic and dashing frontiersmen might not be as romantic as it may appear.

This was, of course, a propaganda song.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: What's the matter with East Virginia?
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Sep 09 - 09:49 PM

"... who later in life settled in the Alleghany Highlands of EAST VIRGINIA (although it's most often referred to as Southwest Virginia..." Padre

Hmmm. Padre, given the wedge/triangular shape of Virginia, how does an area in Southwest Virginia become synonymous with EAST Virginia? Seriously. Where are the -- OOPS! Sorry. I just caught on.


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