Is this really a Steeleye Span Record?

Subject: Is this really a Syeeleye Span Record ?
From: GUEST,Aldus
Date: 05 Jun 00 - 12:08 PM

I recently heard a so-called Steele Span CD, although it did have former Span members on it...it was clearly not a recording by the group most of us would recognize as Steeleye. I believe the cd was called Horkstow Grange...it was dreadful and insulting, I think, to that wonderful group. Why are these people allowed to call themselves Steeleye Span and put out this drivel. It is the worst kind of cashing in on the reputaion made by others. I just wish these mediocrities from the past would find a new group name and attempt to sell records on their own merits.I do hate this kind of crass opportunism...It is done far too often these days. What do others think of this practise ?

Subject: RE: Is this really a Syeeleye Span Record ?
From: Rana who SHOULD be working
Date: 05 Jun 00 - 01:16 PM

But who owns the name? List of personel is:

Horkstow Grange

CD: Park PRK CD44 (1998)

Personnel

Gay Woods - vocals, bodhrán Bob Johnson - vocals, electric guitar Peter Knight - vocals, violin Tim Harries - bass, keyboards, vocals with Dave Mattacks - drums

Produced by Steeleye Span Recorded at Warehouse Studio Oxford Engineered by Steve Watkins Mixed and mastered by John Etchels Sleeve Design Gwen Jones at Riverline Colourgraphics, Oxford Album coordination John Dagnell at Park Records

All songs published by Peer Music UK (except track 1 copyright control) All songs arranged by Tim Harries, Bob Johnson, Peter Knight and Gay Woods (except track 1 Johnny Patterson)

Peter Knight and Bob Johnson are very long time members. Gay Woods was in the original Steeleye Span, and rejoined for "Time" which was a great recording (in my opinion) Harking back to the best of Steeleye Span.

I haven't heard the CD in question, it may have a sound different to the Steeleye you're used too. My favourite Steeleye's were the first few (upto Below the Salt).

Another group that has gone through many many changes is Fairport. A lot of the later stuff I found boring, though their latest line-up sounds as if they could sound like the Full House/Angel Delight era. I haven't them recently though.

The Battlefield Band are another group with many changes. I've seen 2 line-ups a year apart. Both were good though the latest blew me away! "Ownership" in this case is easier since they still are lead (if that is the right word) by a founding member.

However, you do raise a good point - who owns a group's name?

Any other comments from out there?

Subject: RE: Is this really a Syeeleye Span Record ?
From: GUEST,Aldus
Date: 05 Jun 00 - 01:29 PM

Hi Rana; Yes, I know who all of the people are.. But I still think that this is not the group one would think of as Steeleye Span.....This business of who owns the name is a legal question.. I know it is not an easy one.. However, who would want to use that fact to pass themselves off as something they are not...why not just pick another name, unless you are trying to fool someone. I just hate anyone to think we are all so stupid that we don't who we are listening to.

Subject: RE: Is this really a Syeeleye Span Record ?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Jun 00 - 01:44 PM

There was at least one case in the pop industry after a group split there were two groups made up partly of survivors using the the same name. There was some kind of court case I think.

It's a bit like the old puzzle about the knife where you give it a new handle, and then some time you give it a new blade. But of course it's the same knife. There are probably banjos like that.

Subject: RE: Is this really a Syeeleye Span Record ?
From: Peg
Date: 05 Jun 00 - 02:19 PM

The band Talking Heads went through problems over name usage--former members minus David Byrne finally called themselves "The Heads"--even though they performed a lot of the Talking Heads' music in concert...I guess it has to do with copyright on already-recorded music etc. but you'd think people could work out name ownership issues without suing each other...

as for the Steeleye Span album by former members I am sorry to hear this album is so bad, there seem to be a number of good musicians on it...

Subject: RE: Is this really a Syeeleye Span Record ?
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 05 Jun 00 - 05:31 PM

You need a divorce-court ruling to decide who owns the name, or at least that's how Tina Turner did it.

Subject: RE: Is this really a Syeeleye Span Record ?
From: GUEST,Trish
Date: 05 Jun 00 - 06:49 PM

I saw them live at Sidmouth Festival last year, with Gaye Woods as lead female vocalist (no Maddy Prior, but she had done her stuff a year or two before with her current band). They were nothing short of brilliant still, did a lot of the old favourites and some newer stuff: I thought Gaye Woods was particularly good, as she can sing, dance and play bodhran all at once - a woman after my own heart - I'm working on it! I have always found them more entertaining live than on disc. Trish

Subject: RE: Is this really a Syeeleye Span Record ?
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jun 00 - 08:44 PM

< href="http://www.informatik.uni-hamburg.de/~zierke/steeleye.span/records/horkstowgrange.html"> Horkstow Grange

Subject: RE: Is this really a Syeeleye Span Record ?
From: GUEST,Lotusland
Date: 05 Jun 00 - 10:23 PM

Since Gay Woods was in the original Steeleye Span lineup, I'm afraid this is the new original Steeleye Span. Gay and Terry Woods left after the first Steeleye album. In those days, Gay had trouble with pitch, but I'd heard she'd improved dramatically.

Subject: RE: Is this really a Syeeleye Span Record ?
From: GUEST,Don Meixner
Date: 06 Jun 00 - 12:33 AM

These bands are like My great grandfathers axe. Gramps replaced the haft and my Dad replaced the head but its still great Grandfather axe. Like The Sons of the Pioneers.

Don

Subject: RE: Is this really a Syeeleye Span Record ?
From: Gervase
Date: 06 Jun 00 - 10:06 AM

I have to agree with Trish - I saw the new-look Steeleye at Sidmouth and was impressed. Sure, Gaye Woods isn't Maddy Prior - she's Gaye Woods, and has a cracking voice and stage presence. The instrumental line-up is a bit like a wedding - old/new/borrowed and blue - but none the worse for that. Mind you, I've yet to hear them on a recording.

Subject: RE: Is this really a Syeeleye Span Record ?
From: GeorgeH
Date: 06 Jun 00 - 01:26 PM

What's wrong with the new 'Span recording of Horkstow Grange, anyway . . .

G.

Subject: RE: Is this really a Syeeleye Span Record ?
From: GUEST,Aldus
Date: 06 Jun 00 - 02:20 PM

it's Not by Steeleye Span. It is like the old Shakespeare joke..Shakespeare was not written bu Shakespeare...and so on..Well, this is the musical version...Steeleye Span records are not made by Steeleye Span but by another group of the same name....

Subject: RE: Is this really a Syeeleye Span Record ?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Jun 00 - 03:08 PM

The issue of who is entitled to use the name of a recorded band is usually governed by the group leaving provisions in a modern full-form recording contract. In the absence of relevant documentary provision there or elsewhere the central issue is to whom the "goodwill" (the likelihood of customers returning to the same place) in the name belongs. In most cases that will be a partnership asset to be held on the terms of the relevant partnership (s) and in the absence of express provisions the partnership assetts may not be used without the agreement of all of the partners - but they may be sold in a winding up of a partnership. At least that's the situation under English law. Twenty guineas.

Subject: RE: Is this really a Syeeleye Span Record ?
From: GUEST,me
Date: 06 Jun 00 - 03:21 PM

if maddy prior ain't there, it ain't the span

dinna care who "owns" the name, shite in a milk carton is still shite

peace upon thee

Subject: RE: Is this really a Syeeleye Span Record ?
From: GeorgeH
Date: 07 Jun 00 - 07:10 AM

Oh for heavens' sake, Prior is just one member of the band . . And I'd still like Guesty Aldus to offer some little clue to what it is about "Horkstow" that makes it "not Span" in how it sounds . . I don't find it sound out of keeping with some of their work when Prior was with them.

What on earth is the fuss about. So Prior chose to leave the band . . why on earth should the rest of the band have to change the name.

Compare "Albion Band" . . no two weeks alike . .

G

Subject: RE: Is this really a Syeeleye Span Record ?
From: GUEST,Aldus
Date: 07 Jun 00 - 07:44 AM

My point is that they should have chosen another name....as a consumer I expect to get what I pay for.. If I buy a Steeleye cd..I want it to be by them, not by someone who was in the group twenty five years ago...not by someone who sounds a bit like them..This is simple ...I suppose we could always hurl together Ringo and Pete Best and some other unknown and call it the Beatles. It might be legal, but it ain't therBeatles.

Subject: RE: Is this really a Syeeleye Span Record ?
From: Rana who SHOULD be working
Date: 07 Jun 00 - 10:01 AM

Aldus,

With your argument they should have changed the name after the first lp when the Woods' left, or after Martin Carthy left, or after Ashley Hutchings (who founded the group) left or ...

Line-up's change and so does the sound of a group - sometimes for better, or sometimes for worse - depending on taste. The Steeleye Span line-ups I like probably differ from those you like - I prefer the earlier line-ups. Clearly you like the sound featuring Maddy Prior. It is unfortunate that you couldn't hear the CD before buying it and deciding that way but when personel change the sound may change - especially with regards to the vocalist which may be the dominant part of the sound. So your best bet is to enjoy the other projects Maddy has been involved with and be a bit wary on future Span releases. As I said in an earlier post I haven't heard the CD in question, but I recall seeing some favouarable reviews.

Cheers Rana