Land of Hope and Glory

Subject: Land of Hope and Glory
From: GUEST,Oklahoma City
Date: 07 Jun 00 - 01:43 PM

Let's try this again ... I am requesting the lyrics of "Land of Hope and Glory", a British anthem.

It is to be sung at the wedding of a minor official of the British foreign office, and an American lady in St. Louis.

This is a serious request for lyrics. The only actual response so far has been a vulgar parody, which would not be appropriate for the occasion. I have also been told to "f**k off" (spelled out) by someone who resents the British. Possibly Irish.

If there are any PROFESSIONAL musicians here who can help, it would be appreciated! BANJO JOHNNY

Subject: RE: Land of Hope and Glory
From: Turtle
Date: 07 Jun 00 - 01:58 PM

Wow, Banjo Johnny, hang on a minute. The rest of us who read that thread and followed Brendy's link didn't find a vulgar parody, but the honest-to-goodness lyrics to Hope and Glory, and several other British anthems including God Save the Queen and Jerusalem.

I don't know what happened when you followed the link, but it worked for the rest of us, and I think Brendy's posting of it was an honest attempt to help you out.

Here's the URL for that link, so you can see what the rest of us are looking at:

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/rulebritannia.html#Land%20of%20Hope%20and%20Glory

If that doesn't work, please don't flame anyone, but let us know what the problem is. Maybe someone would be willing to post the lyrics to the forum.

Good Luck!

Subject: RE: Land of Hope and Glory
From: GUEST,Oklahoma City, USA
Date: 07 Jun 00 - 02:03 PM

Hi Turtle! Thanks for your note, and for taking the time to type out "http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/rulebritannia.html#Land%20of%20Hope%20and%20Glory" (whew)

It worked!

By the way, I don't "flame" people, and I haven't mentioned anyone by name.

But I DO thank you for the song, and now I'm ready to belt it out for the Brits.

BANJO JOHNNY in Oklahoma City

Subject: RE: Land of Hope and Glory
From: GUEST,Mrr
Date: 07 Jun 00 - 02:06 PM

Anyone want to do a blicky to the vulgar parody, which sounds interesting?

Subject: Lyr Add: LAND OF HOPE AND GLORY (A. C. Benson)
From: Pene Azul
Date: 07 Jun 00 - 02:07 PM

LAND OF HOPE AND GLORY
(A. C. Benson)

Dear Land of Hope, thy hope is crowned.
God make thee mightier yet!
On Sov'ran brows, beloved, renowned,
Once more thy crown is set.
Thine equal laws, by Freedom gained,
Have ruled thee well and long;
By Freedom gained, by Truth maintained,
Thine Empire shall be strong.

Land of Hope and Glory,
Mother of the Free,
How shall we extol thee,
Who are born of thee?
Wider still and wider
Shall thy bounds be set;
God, who made thee mighty,
Make thee mightier yet.

Thy fame is ancient as the days,
As Ocean large and wide:
A pride that dares, and heeds not praise,
A stern and silent pride:
Not that false joy that dreams content
With what our sires have won;
The blood a hero sire hath spent
Still nerves a hero son.


These are the lyrics from that link.

PA (amateur musician)

Subject: RE: Land of Hope and Glory
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jun 00 - 02:12 PM

Thanks, Pene! BANJO JOHNNY

Subject: RE: Land of Hope and Glory
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 07 Jun 00 - 02:27 PM

O Well, I am British and I think that the "vulgar parody" is a great improvement on the original.

Jon

Subject: RE: Land of Hope and Glory
From: Wolfgang
Date: 07 Jun 00 - 02:38 PM

The other thread with this title (click) is a prime example of what can happen from misunderstanding each other in the internet and from making wrong assumptions about someone you do not know.
It seems to me obvious (now!) that Banjo Johnny didn't recognise a link when a helpful link was posted by Brendy in a post which was completely ununderstandable without the knowledge that a link was included. Brendy's second post was an easy to understand aside remark for anybody who had followed that link, but of course completely off the mark if the link was not seen as such (and therefore not followed). And so on.
Reread Johnny's posts in that thread with the assumption of the link not being recognised by him then you see that he was not flaming at all but just voicing mild irritation. But assume he had read that link then his post might be read as a start of a flame war. He got the response 'fuck off' where an explanation how to click a link would possibly have been the correct response.
See what I mean? Working on the one assumption you have a person asking a polite question and showing growing irritation in later posts. Working on the other assumption you have a flamer who forgets to say 'thank you' when he gets a very quick response.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Land of Hope and Glory
From: paddymac
Date: 07 Jun 00 - 03:48 PM

Seems to me the really interesting question is why did Banjo Johnny assume that someone whom he suspected (or accused) of being anti Brit was "possibly Irish". It is certainly true that the Irish have ample reason to look without favor on things british, but they most certainly are not the only people in the world in such a position. Moreover, most Irish, wherever they are and however long removed from Ireland, are perfectly capable of distinguishing between the british government and the british people. And before anyone gets too carried away casting aspersions at the british government, they should all take the time to look at their own government(s) with the same critical eye. I doubt that any of them are beyond reproach.

Subject: RE: Land of Hope and Glory
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Jun 00 - 05:58 PM

Now the thing is, Banjo Johnny, this is how it works: if you see some words which are underlined and in a different colour, it's a link and will take you to another page somewhere which might have relevanmt information.

In the case of Brendy's response to your origional request - made within five minutes of your posting it, it took you to a site with Land of Hope and Glory, God Save the Queen, Jerusalem and I Vow To Thee My Country and the British Grenadiers. Not at all bad! Unfortunately you duidn't realise there was a link, and thought you were being trifled with.

After a couple of posts in which you were pretty shirty, and he'd repeated the link (though you obviously didn't follow it up that tiem either), he suggested that you might fuck off. In the circumstances that seemed moderate enough. An apology on your part would be in order, I'd say. Internally, even if you don't feel like posting it.

Anyway, it's a great tune.Sir Edward Elgar, who wrote it, thought the words were rubbish, but that was when it was all meant seriously and arrogantly. But now it's become a good-humoured enough joke of a song, so give it a good belting rendering.

Subject: RE: Land of Hope and Glory
From: alison
Date: 07 Jun 00 - 09:18 PM

Banjo Johnny,

I assume you're new and didn't know how to work a "blue clicky thing" (link), which you were given within 5 minutes, and which would have taken you directly to what you were looking for and a few other songs too.

Basically the rule is, if there is writing in a different colour (blue) click on it and see where it goes, it saves you the hassle of typing the addresss in.

Yes you were told to "f*** off" but you had been pretty nasty to someone who had given you what you asked for....

I hope you stick around and see a more friendly side to Mudcat.... if you go back to your original thread there are some more answers there for you too....

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Land of Hope and Glory
From: GUEST,BANJO JOHNNY
Date: 07 Jun 00 - 09:24 PM

Okay, thanks for the info on the links.

I'm not playing this on the banjo ... I'm standing up in front of 200-300 people in my tux at a wedding ceremony in St. Louis. Many of them are English. I have nothing against the English or anyone else. Sorry about that "possibly Irish" remark, but it was low key compared to some of the cracks directed at me.

Many of you don't seem to like the song, or at least the words. Personally I don't see anything wrong with it as an anthem. It seems patriotic and vaguely religious. Nevertheless, when you have this kind of engagement, you sing what is asked for and do your best.

I met a travelling Mudcat from Yorkshire called Bill Sables. He gave me this website address as a good place to find some folk tunes and make friends.

BANJO JOHNNY, OKLAHOMA CITY, USA

Subject: RE: Land of Hope and Glory
From: Pene Azul
Date: 07 Jun 00 - 09:33 PM

Hey Johnny,

I hope this doesn't keep you from frequenting the Mudcat. This certainly is a great place to find music and friends.

PA

Subject: RE: Land of Hope and Glory
From: MMario
Date: 07 Jun 00 - 09:33 PM

yup, that it is, but occasionally, like all people, we can get our buttons pushed, and it seems to have happened. Welcome to the MudCat, sorry about the rocky start, and hope you will return many times.

The "hypertext link" known to the mudcat as a "blue clicky thing" or "blickie" or even just a link is frequently used so as to not have to duplicate postings. It is also used to point towards other discussions, other web pages or to hook the thread to a particular spot in the database. Frequently it will also be accompianied with the url in text, but not always.

Subject: RE: Land of Hope and Glory
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 07 Jun 00 - 09:36 PM

Banjo Johnny, yes this is a place where you can meet some nice people and make friends. You would probably help that cause by at least publically acknowledging that you were wrong on some of what you said in the other thread and that Brendy had in fact given you valid information.

Rather that doing that and trying to make peace, you seem to wish to keep on harping on about how you were treated - maybe you should fuck off.

Jon

Subject: RE: Land of Hope and Glory
From: sophocleese
Date: 07 Jun 00 - 09:56 PM

Personally I think we should all fuck off to a beer and some music. I'm heading that way myself. In between folding laundry of course..

Subject: RE: Land of Hope and Glory
From: GUEST,Thanks
Date: 07 Jun 00 - 11:23 PM

Thanks to Turtle, Pene, Wolfgang, Alison, Mario and others who helped me with this. I'm a Christian type fellow and I like music, but I don't use the kind of language that is being tossed around here, and I don't apologize to the people who do, so they can quit hounding me. Banjo Johnny, OKC

Subject: RE: Land of Hope and Glory
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 07 Jun 00 - 11:42 PM

Banjo Johnny, I don't know where you got hounding from. Quite frankly, if you are not man enough to at least acknowledge your mistakes without trying to pass the blame onto others, you are not worth a shit, never mind hounding.

Jon

Subject: RE: Land of Hope and Glory
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Jun 00 - 08:24 AM

Refusing to apologise to someone who tried to help you and whom you then insulted, because you've got a thing about a four-letter word you provoked them into using - when you are in the wrong - is that "Christian type"? Isn't there something about turning the other cheek?

Anyway, don't worry about it, stop being pompous, have a good sing, and come back and enjoy the best place you'll come across on web.

Subject: RE: Land of Hope and Glory
From: The Shambles
Date: 08 Jun 00 - 08:39 AM

Good try Wolfgang. You can lead a horse to water..........

Subject: RE: Land of Hope and Glory
From: Gary T
Date: 08 Jun 00 - 09:07 AM

Oh dear!

I'm going to attempt the role of peacemaker here. I suspect that the harsh words we've seen stem more from misinterpreting others' meaning than from ill will. I will take Banjo Johnny (BJ, to save typing) and Jon to task. I ask you, gentlemen, to try to take this in the spirit intended--not to demean anyone, but to enhance understanding.

First, the "British" thing. BJ's original request asked the Brits here to help, presumably with the thought that they would be most likely to know about this British (I assume) song. Brendy's "I'm not a Brit..." was simply a way of saying that he could help even though he was not British (I believe he's Irish, but I'm not sure, and it doesn't matter on this point). I (American) might well have said the same thing. Brendy wasn't indicating that he resented the British, just that it didn't take a Brit to provide the information. The point really was to not underestimate the knowledge of Mudcatters--it's not just the Irish among us who know a lot about Irish music, for example. The breadth and depth of knowledge here is amazing, impressive, and humbling.

Now, the "f*ck off". It's my understanding that in the British Isles, such language is in many circles more common and less emotionally charged than here in the U.S. Witness Sophoclese's (I believe she's English) rather casual use of it a few posts up. I would venture that Brendy's use of it in the previous thread is the equivalent of saying "get lost" or "get bent" here in the states. BJ, on the other hand, lives in an area (sometimes called America's "Bible Belt") where it would be considered extremely offensive, generally used casually only by rather nasty types, e.g. mean bikers and inner-city gang members. For most of the folks BJ knows, I would think that if they ever said it all it would be only with extreme anger and intent to offend in the utmost.

I can't help but wonder, BJ, if you dropped an anvil on someone's foot and broke bones and he said "Oh f*ck" or even "f*ck you", would you then not apologize just because of the language used? That's one way to interpret what you said. I would ask you to see Brendy's comment not as the ultimate insult it represents in your neck of the woods, but as a relatively mild, and in the circumstances understandable, expression of frustration and dismay. When he said he gave you the answer, a "How so?" would have been more appropriate than "No you didn't!". I believe an apology from you to him is in order.

I believe I understand your point, Jon, but I feel it was expressed with undue harshness. Such nasty comments are likely to aggravate the tension rather than alleviate it. I see the situation as one where folks fail to understand each other, rather than one where they're trying to be jerks. I would ask you to try to see BJ's frame of reference and be kind.

Let's everyone remember that we're handicapped not only by the lack of non-verbal communication, but by different cultural and personal vantage points. Assume the best, seek clarification before offering criticism.

I wish all a good day, and I hope the wedding goes well.

Subject: RE: Land of Hope and Glory
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 08 Jun 00 - 09:32 AM

Yes, Garry T, I agree that it was expressed with due harshness and Banjo Johnny, I apologise for both the tone of my remarks and the language I used.

I do however believe that you should apologise to Brendy and do so without having to say things like "but it was low key compared to some of the cracks directed at me." Personally, I find the type of apology you gave over the "possibly Irish" worse than no apology.

I am aware that the whole business was a genuine misunderstanding caused by your lack of knowledge and until insulted by you, Brendy had done nothing but help you.

On the useage of the "F" word, I can confirm that over here (I live in Wales) in the context that Brendy and I used it, alhough it is considered bad language is no more than a "get lost" - perhaps a little sronger but certainly nothing to loose any sleep over.

Anyway, enjoy Mudcat.

Jon

Subject: RE: Land of Hope and Glory
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 08 Jun 00 - 09:38 AM

For due above, read undue!

Jon

Subject: RE: Land of Hope and Glory
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Jun 00 - 05:25 PM

Well, he'd better not visit the Improper Language thread!

Subject: RE: Land of Hope and Glory
From: Gary T
Date: 08 Jun 00 - 10:06 PM

Why the f*ck not? (BG)

Subject: RE: Land of Hope and Glory
From: Jim McLean
Date: 11 May 03 - 05:27 PM

There is a version which starts:
Land of Dope and Tory,
Smotherer of the free---

Subject: RE: Land of Hope and Glory
From: ooh-aah
Date: 12 May 03 - 04:27 AM

How tedious and predictable.