how do I write love songs?

Subject: how do I write love songs?
From: paddyc
Date: 08 Jun 00 - 11:15 PM

Hello all. I am a local performer of modern celtic music. I perform stuff in the style of the Clancys, great big sea, chieftains, spirit of the west...well you get the idea. I've written manys a song in the past but all about rowdiness and trouble making. I've been pushed by a few people to try and write more of a love song style. They'd probably still want it a little upbeat but somehing having to do with love. I just can't find it in me though. So I need help. I can't write one line without it saying "give me a pint". I would appreciate a few tips. All the best.

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: Mbo
Date: 08 Jun 00 - 11:18 PM

The best thing, CC, is to fall in love. I had your problem once as well, all I could write was Celtic war songs and historical stuff...till I fell in love myself. Like the song says "This must be what they're talking about." Now that's pretty much all I write...

--Mbo

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jun 00 - 11:19 PM

Get a life first

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: paddyc
Date: 08 Jun 00 - 11:22 PM

Thanks Mbo. To Guest-I do have a life.

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jun 00 - 11:33 PM

It sounds fascinating

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: JenEllen
Date: 08 Jun 00 - 11:42 PM

ceilidh;

Have you ever tried a sort of stream of consciousness writing? Just thinking about someone/something you love and putting down every thought? You can pull together common threads from that to build a lyric. If you only love her cause she can bring you your pint...well, that's a different song entirely..:)

~Elle

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 08 Jun 00 - 11:46 PM

If you don't feel able to make songs about personal feelings, you probably just aren't ready yet.  Don't let your friends push you into something you aren't comfortable with.  Make notes when ideas come into your head, and make sure you have a large wastepaper basket.  Far too many people write self-indulgent songs (love being the favourite topic) and don't have the self-awareness and critical equipment to understand when a thing bears repeating and when it's more appropriate to consign it to a quiet and dignified oblivion.  I'm sure you'll know when you come up with something worthwhile.  You may need to listen to some other kinds of music first, though, as I don't think that the Clancys will provide you with the raw material that you'll need...

Malcolm

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: Mbo
Date: 08 Jun 00 - 11:46 PM

Sounds like a song my sister made up, Elle... "Now You've Gone, There's No One To Get Me Beer".

--Mbo

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: Callie
Date: 08 Jun 00 - 11:48 PM

How about a song of having lost a love? That could be an easier tack. Whenever I sit down to try to write a love song, the lyrics come out sounding ridiculous and I give up.

Here's another suggestion: make a list of love songs in the style you're looking for and one or some of them might be a springing board for a new song.

Or write a love song about a place, like "Caledonia" or Elvis Costello's "London'd Brilliant Parade".

By the way, I have what I think was the first Spirit of the West record, and I love it. It's the recording that has the song that goes "I need home for a rest". Don't seem to hear much about them (at least not in Australia) - I'd love to hear more from them.

Good luck, and pay no attention to gutless "guests" who are too cowardly to use their real names.

Callie

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: Mbo
Date: 08 Jun 00 - 11:51 PM

That's right. I also pick up on things she's said to me, and just write them down...you can assemble them into a song, it's amazing, with every line jam-packed with it's own precious meaning.

--Mbo

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jun 00 - 12:01 AM

I'm hurt now. Goodnight

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: sophocleese
Date: 09 Jun 00 - 12:04 AM

Ignore your inner critics and just write for awhile letting everything come out. You can then weed out what doesn't work. Its easier to edit what's on the paper than what's in the air. If you're feeling self conscious about writing about your feelings try writing a deliberate parody to get it out of your system. You don't have to show your friends anything if you feel really uncomfortable about it.

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: Amergin
Date: 09 Jun 00 - 01:21 AM

Why don't you start out writing a love song about a pint of Guinness?

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: Fiddlin' Big Al
Date: 09 Jun 00 - 02:43 AM

"Draw me a pint of your love, Sweet Love, And I'll roll out a barrel of mine."

Just start where you're at. If that doesn't work go to AA.

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: Chicky
Date: 09 Jun 00 - 09:13 AM

My dear brother writes fabulous love songs - and yet he's never had a serious relationship. He swears by unrequited love for an unattainable woman as the best way to get a love song (or a dozen) written!

- Chicky

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: Callie
Date: 09 Jun 00 - 09:41 AM

Yeah, but your brother also wrote 2 songs with the words "orthopoedic brace" in them. You're not suggesting 'cowboy sing about prosthetics are you?

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: Chicky
Date: 09 Jun 00 - 09:48 AM

Well Callie, whatever does it for him - prosthetics, bull-nosed beds, possums...

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: Callie
Date: 09 Jun 00 - 10:02 AM

keep cleigh and mig out of it!

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: Mbo
Date: 09 Jun 00 - 01:07 PM

"Well, you know, in Celtic music there's a lot of songs about very lovely, and largely unattainable young women...and these are known as 'love songs.' And there's loads of songs about very lovely, and extremely strong, and very obtainable drinks...these are known as 'love songs'...."

--Andy M. Stewart

--Mbo

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Jun 00 - 01:41 PM

Songs don't fall into any neat division of love songs which are quiet and war songs which are noisy. Not in the Irish tradition anyway.

A lot of the best quiet love songs there are in that tradition are really about Ireland as much as anything.

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: Alice
Date: 09 Jun 00 - 01:44 PM

If you can't do it from personal experience of love, look at the love between two people you know who really set the example - your grandparents, maybe... you'll know when you think about it. Read their old love letters if they have them, or talk to people close to you about their experience.

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: GUEST,Peter T.
Date: 09 Jun 00 - 03:14 PM

The secret to writing the best love songs, is: see if you can get through the song without mentioning the word love. That tends to focus the mind away from the overworked cliches.

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: Pixie
Date: 09 Jun 00 - 03:35 PM

To Callie: Glad you like Spirit of the West! They have a number of cd's out, and the one you are talking about is none other that "Save This House" (song/cd of same name). Originally the band started with 3 guys who played celtic-based music (Geoffrey's originally from Scotland), but the band expanded, one of the first guys left, and after "Save This House" the band turned to the more "alternative" side. Lots more electric, drums, etc. Linda McCrae left the band a few years ago, and I haven't heard much from them. If they come to Halifax, Nova Scotia, they usually play at the University. John Mann and Geoffrey Kelly are excellent song writers! Check to see if they have a web-site and maybe you can order some of their older stuff (Tripping up the Stairs, Old Music).

Also a fan...Pixie

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Jun 00 - 06:03 PM

Listen to Chreisty Moore. He can turn any song into a love song.

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: paddyc
Date: 09 Jun 00 - 06:48 PM

Thanks for all the tips guys. It has already helped me out a lot.PS-I really like that "Draw me a pint of your love, Sweet Love, And I'll roll out a barrel of mine." -Paddy(The Ceilidh Cowboy)

Subject: Lyr Add: MY FIRST LOVE
From: Amergin
Date: 09 Jun 00 - 10:14 PM

Or do something like this (sorry folks for subjecting you all to this torture):

MY FIRST LOVE

As I went in the pub one day
I heard the fiddles playing
The drums were beating
And the singer braying
I walked up to the bar
And sat upon the stool
Looking at the counter top
My mouth began to drool

Upon the bar she sat before me
Bubbling with her female wiles
I sat staring in wonderment
As she flashed me with her smiles
Her light brown hair flowed down
Caressing the curves of her breasts
I laughed and grinned at the blood
Forcing the thumping in my chest

Chorus:
Oh, she looked so sweet, her body like glass
Never will I forget the taste of this dark lass

Her black limbs stretched out
Before me shining with dew
She leaned towards me laughing
And so my faint hopes grew
She bent down to me mouth gaping
Tongue flickering as we kissed
She tasted thick and bitter
I stared at her in the smoky mist

We kissed again and yet again
Each time hotter and longer
Her spit filling me with warmth
Til my love could grow no stronger
I whisper softly into her hair
As it swirls down her smooth throat
She sighs and sizzles in quiet lust
At each love song I gently quote

Chorus:

My thoughts fade off into smoke
As I drink in her loving milk
It flows down heating my gullet
Coating my insides with its silk
I look up to watch the band
Feeling the beat of the song
I drift my eyes back to the bar
To find that she has gone

Final Chorus:
Six years have passed and gone since that blissful night
I still think of my first love and my cheeks shining bright

Amergin

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: Brendy
Date: 10 Jun 00 - 02:59 AM

Look at some of Chris de Burgh's stuff for 'inspiration'.

Or don't, as the case may be!

B.

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: paddyc
Date: 10 Jun 00 - 05:55 PM

Thanks everyone.

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: GUEST,Liz the Squeak
Date: 11 Jun 00 - 03:39 AM

Write a really, really slushy, gooey, trite, disgustingly sloppy one or get the words of a pre-existing one, that makes you want to barf. Print it out big. Pin it to your wall as an example of how not to do it. Worked for me - I stick to writing cynical parodies now, I don't have the romantic twist to do 'love' songs.

LTS

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: Mick Lowe
Date: 11 Jun 00 - 08:01 PM

Mmmm..

What can I say.. apart from feeling somewhat dismayed by some of the postings to this thread...

I can't help but feel that the " art form" of the songwriter has been somewhat subjected to parody here...

I'll leave aside the rather pertinent fact that whatever the content of any given song relies heavily upon the melody for a moment and concerntrate on the lyrics..

Writing lyrics for a song is the same as trying to write poetry.. first off you need inspiration. i.e. an idea for a theme.. secondly you need "knowledge" . that is of whatever it is you're writing about.

To write a love song you need to be able to express in words your feelings/commitments/devotions to an individual (be it person or country).. without falling into the commercial trap that so many so called (and I hate to say this American) songsmiths have done so in the past..
The " best" love songs tend to be about unrequitted or lost loves.. they tend to have more empathy attached to them.. even if not re an individual.. just look at Phil Couler's Town I Loved So Well.. a classic "Love Song"..

I also think that you shouldn't be trying to force to genres of music together.. i.e. celtic and the love song unless it naturally falls in place for you...

The best songs come from the heart (despite what American hacks might say to the contray).. and having thought/compossed a song about that most glorious thing this life has to offer us.. i.e. love.. be it fulfilled or unrequied .. any song that truly reaches out to us and generates a feeling of understanding (whatever the so called musical genre)... will last in time..

Mick

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 12 Jun 00 - 05:35 PM

Thirty-six years ago, in the great flush of blooming love for my (now) Beautiful Wife, I was shocked to observe that the love songs I'd disdained for thirty years as being crudely sloppy-sentimental, trite, and artificial--WERE TRUE! THEY WERE ALL TRUE!

I just had never had the right frame of reference until I was thirty-three years old.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: Mbo
Date: 12 Jun 00 - 05:49 PM

You hit the nail right on the head there Dave!!! Songs I absolutely HATED because I thought the were so typically mushy turned out to be the song that described the way I feel EXACTLY!!! ESPECIALLY "Look At You Girl" by Chris Ledoux, and "You Had Me From Hello" by Kenny Chesney...

--Mbo

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: GUEST,Liz the Squeak
Date: 13 Jun 00 - 02:27 AM

So I'm a cynical old bat then; you'll learn - when the gorgeous, intelligent man you fell hopelessly in love with one summer and gave your entire being to, turns round in winter and fractures your skull, just because he doesn't like your taste in friends, you'll learn.......

Start with something that won't turn on you, a dead pet, a nice place you once lived. That's how I started, and it seems to get better after a while.

LTS

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: Mick Lowe
Date: 01 Jul 00 - 06:56 PM

Having been away from the cat for a while I just stumbled across this thread saved on my personal pages.. and read the postings after mine...
Liz I don't want to pry into your personal life (but you'll know how nosey I am from our previous encounters).. but if the love in your summer was so great as to (and I've gone "word blind".. not incite so much as.... inspire.. that's it..) to write a song about all it's joys and beauty, if that love transpires to be only a passing glimpse into happiness ( alas us mortals fall short of the ideals we create in songs and poetry).. you should still treasure the moments of joy it reflects, if only for the feelings you felt at the time, rather than being associated with a now much to be forgotten individual..

And if you are still suffering from your "Adonis" having turned into a complete arsehole.. perhaps you might feel like attempting writing the other side of "the love song".. both passion and venom ... love and hate.. are powerful emmotions if you can capture them properly in verse...

I guess a lot depends upon the individual as to whether they can capture either side of that narrow divide in song.. some songwriters only have the knack of portraying one side ...
Heck I can't do either to any proficient level...

Mick

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: GUEST,chriosst
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 04:27 PM

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 08:22 PM

Along that same line, LtS, one song I called 'The First Time' begins:

Our lives together were clashes of will
And we finally shook ourselves free
But I remember- and treasure it still-
The first time you smiled on me.

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: Matt_R
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 08:36 PM

Holy crap this brings back memories.

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: Amos
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 08:41 PM

Nice to see ya 'round, Matt R!


A

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 12:06 AM

Writing about your love life is like walking through a crowded shopping mall stark naked. I know people who wouldn't mind doing that. How Robert Burns wrote "Aye Fond Kiss and Then We Sever", or let anyone else read it, I will never tell you.

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: alanabit
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 02:08 AM

I think the most important quality any great song has to have is resonance. This makes it very difficult to write personal songs which mean anything to other people. That's why I like Malcolm Douglas's earlier comment about keeping a big waste paper basket. I have heard too many love songs by good, intelligent people which were trite, cliched and banal. The trouble was that they did not realise that because it was the most important experience in their own lives, they were effectively only talking to themselves.
I think it takes writers of extraordinary talent to create interesting love songs. The Bob Dylans and Richard Thompsons of the world don't always pull it off. I really think that we lesser mortals are well advised to keep these things to ourselves! There is plenty to write about which other people can find interesting.

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: Celtaddict
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 12:54 PM

On Danny Spooner's album (yes, the "shantyman"--he has a huge and difficult to categorize repertoire) titled "When a Man's in Love" the final track, "I Wish that I Could Write a Love Song" (by I forget who; I am at work) is a charming song that not only actually touches on the difficulty some people face, despite the intense wish to express love, but also even laments that whatever he writes tends to turn into a joke.

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: alanabit
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 03:02 PM

I'd probably like it. It adds to what I said though, doesn't it? The huge temptation in a love song is to say something obvious in a way that a thousand others have done before. Now when you've got an angle - and it sounds like this bloke has - you have something to write about.

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: CapriUni
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 04:50 PM

And then, there's the angle of someone in my position:

1) Wanting to write a really beautiful love song.

2) But not feeling qualified, because she's never been in love, and

3) wondering if such a song, if it were right, could "call" love into her life.

Hmmmm....

:::gathers all the wastepaper baskets in the house around her desk:::

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: John Hardly
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 05:47 PM

"The secret to writing the best love songs, is: see if you can get through the song without mentioning the word love. That tends to focus the mind away from the overworked cliches.

yours, Peter T."

Even back then, three years ago (that works out to about 17 years in forum time) P.T. was the source of some of the best, most succinct observations. Like Mooh -- no wasted words, all valuable info.

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 06:09 PM

My Love Song.... :-)

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 07:27 PM

It's easy:
Rule 1: Love (or have loved)
Rule 2: Imagine you are with the loved one and you are telling them about how you love them. Write this down as a stream of consciousness ream of words.
Rule 3: Now take what you wrote and put rhyme to it.
Rule 4: Imagine you are singing it to the loved one: would he/she approve? If yes, then...
Rule 5: Sing it out in public and sink or swim by it. It is what you believe and what you feel, after all! Above all - no embarassment. Every time you sing it, you sing it to the loved one; the others are just eavesdropping.

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: GUEST,Chief Chaos
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 09:46 PM

You have already written songs of war and battle? Now imagine yourself the maiden who's beau is going off to battle, will he ever return? Imagine you are the mother or father of the lad. Or imagine yourself going off to battle, will she of the golden hair wait for you to get back. What would you say to her to guarantee that she would?

Don't worry if it's trite or cliched. It can always be re-worked later. Put your heart into it.

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: mg
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 11:10 PM

Yeah..that is what I was going to say..don't worry if it is cliched..what if that had stopped Burns from writing my love is like a red red rose...mg

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: GUEST,Keaton C Gavin
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 03:21 AM

Writing loves songs can be complicating. But, what works for one could but most likely will not work for another. Anyways, here's what works for me. I grab a note pad, throw on my headphones and put on intrumental music with no lyrics. Most of these songs are improvised which means you can put your own words to the music. Some are songs you've heard before, I would ignore these ones because you'll keep thinging of the lyrics you know the song to be.

I hope this helps someone. Do it, throw on some heads phones go listen to some instrumental music lay back, think about what ever is going on in your life, divorce, loss of a loved one etc.. Than as your mind starts to fall in almost a meditative state you would be surprised as to what you can come up with (start writing). For me I can't just sit there with no music playig and write, it's not the words that makes your song, it's the silence between each word and each note. Don't get me wrong the words are a big part, but when you listen to a song that relates to you, between each word you think about it.

Hope this all makes sense to you, works wonders for me.

Hey Happy New Year

I actually am working on a song in a studio right now. Will it be a hit, maybe not.

But it's called:
"The Pain Is Real"

Best Wishes,
Keaton

Subject: RE: how do I write love songs?
From: Hrothgar
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 03:39 AM

Instead of asking the Mudcat, ask Barry Manilow.

:-)