Perfect singers

Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: English Jon
Date: 24 Sep 01 - 12:53 PM

Eliza Carthy >sigh< Norma Waterson Nic Jones Tim Hart Jeannie Robertson Anna Tabbush

EJ

Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: Burke
Date: 24 Sep 01 - 06:03 PM

Not folk, but my vote goes to Bing Crosby. Effortless.

Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: John Routledge
Date: 24 Sep 01 - 06:20 PM

I do not necessarily agree that a singer should have to sing effortlessly to win accolades.

Many fine traditional singers put much effort into their songs and in many cases this enhances the voice and performance. John

Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 25 Sep 01 - 01:41 AM

I may be shouting down a rain barrel, but you all should give a listen to Vera Hall on, say, the Rounder CD titled "Deep River of Song - Alabama." Now that's singing! Also listen to Alfred Karnes on Yazoo's "Folk Music of Kenmtucky, Volume I." Unrelenting power!

Sandy (still listening to the source singers)

Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: allie kiwi
Date: 25 Sep 01 - 01:55 AM

Does anyone here listen to Latin American folk singers? I would just HAVE to add Mercedes Sosa to the list.

Even if you don't understand Spanish, go listen to a few of her songs. For example... Gracias a la vida. Solo le pido a dios (the live version with Leon Geico).

She'll give you goose bumps for sure.

Allie

Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: jaze
Date: 25 Sep 01 - 06:10 AM

Kate Wolf--a very mellow and effortless voice

Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: RangerSteve
Date: 25 Sep 01 - 08:12 AM

Wilf Carter, Hank Snow, Patsy Cline, Bing Crosby, Cliff Edwards, Gene Austin, Ruth Etting, Sarah Makem, Grandpa Jones, Roy Orbison, Nat King Cole.

Getting off the subject for a minute: Broadway musicals used to feature guys with testicles: Howard Keel, Joel McCrey. In revivals of old shows like Showboat and Carousel, they've been replaced with kids singing in wimpy tenor voices, sounding like they're still in 9th grade. There should be a protest of some kind, WE WANT BARITONES.

Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: Noreen
Date: 25 Sep 01 - 08:57 AM

Emma Kirkby Just listen!

Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: Alice
Date: 25 Sep 01 - 09:33 AM

Doc Watson

Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: MAG
Date: 25 Sep 01 - 07:34 PM

Nobody has mentioned Odetta, Jean Redpath, or Cilla Fisher. They all happen to be classically trained, yet remain unaffected and emotionally connected. I would like to have this sound.

My old voice teacher used to tell me to listen to Linda Ronstadt. I think she is the perfect example of somebody with great technique, who doesn't have a clue what she is singing about.

Too many of the current folk divas seem to showcase their voice instead of the song, which is a problem. for me.

I really liked the bit of the htread, above, where singers talked about who they liked and why. Can we go start a thread about that?

MAG

about to fly east on United, and wondering about the discman, and the diabetes kit, and the metal spiral in the puzzle book ...

Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: sophocleese
Date: 25 Sep 01 - 07:46 PM

Noreen, I agree that Emma Kirkby is marvelous. I wish I could sing like her.

Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: Gloredhel
Date: 25 Sep 01 - 07:50 PM

I was really happy until someone mentioned Charlotte Church.... Sorry, nice voice, but apparently I bear some sort of physical resemblance and I'm sooo sick of hearing about her. Though none are folk, Nat King Cole, Jo Stafford, and (young) Frank Sinatra. For folk, Aoife Clancy does some songs really nicely.

Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 25 Sep 01 - 08:06 PM

The Stanley Brothers, Joe Cocker, Bob Dylan, Mississippi John Hurt, Son House, Levon Helm, Emmylou Harris.

Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: Noreen
Date: 25 Sep 01 - 08:56 PM

Me too, sophocleese... but, she was a late developer too... :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: Bert
Date: 26 Sep 01 - 05:48 AM

Piaf, Melanie, Johnny Cash, Willie Nelson, Lonnie Donnegan, Tom Paxton, Sue Trainor, Tommy Steele, Gordon Lightfoot (Although he's a better songwriter than a singer) and I suppose we HAVE to mention Elvis, superb voice, pity he was such a hick.

Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: kendall
Date: 26 Sep 01 - 06:00 AM

Jim Reeves, Kate Wolfe, Wilf Carter, Jean Redpath, Cilla Fisher, Priscilla Herdman, Kat Logan, Gordon Bok.

Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: Sam Pirt
Date: 26 Sep 01 - 06:43 AM

I think this subject is far closer to home than people are making it. a perfect singer or musician is a person who is able to get the message of what they are singing or playing accross to the audience at an emotional level.

Popularity may easily come into this subject, a popular singer may not neccessarily be a 'perfect singer' To me a perfect singer to me is someone who uses their voice to the full while at the same time getting the meaning of the song accross to the audience in their own style.

For me the opposite of a perfect singer is a person who although may be technically brilliant, looses the whole point of the song and its meaning.

Cheers, Sam

Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: Wolfgang
Date: 26 Sep 01 - 06:57 AM

I'd like to add two Anne's: Anne Byrne and Anne Briggs

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: RangerSteve
Date: 26 Sep 01 - 09:23 PM

Hank Williams and Lydia Mendoza.

Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: Peg
Date: 26 Sep 01 - 10:29 PM

Mary Dillon, Karen Matheson, June Tabor, Maddy Prior, Patsy Cline, Annie Haslam, Nat King Cole, Johnnie Mathis, Mandy Patinkin, (young) Frank Sinatra, Neil Finn...

Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: WyoWoman
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 12:06 AM

I've had to muss my voice up a bit to sing folk music, or bluegrass or blues. My mommy trained me to nail the perfect pitch, the perfect vocal sound, and that works fine for classical or choral music, but can make for some very uninspired singing in other genres. Imagine Julie Andrews singing "House of the Rising Sun ... "

ww

Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: GUEST,Ace
Date: 28 Sep 01 - 05:31 AM

Karen Matheson is right up there. I love Loreena McKennitt but she has a few vocal oddities which would rule her out of the perfect category. However, Loreena was more impressive in concert than Karen Matheson, who I saw a few years back - Karen Matheson disappointed by staying well within her comfort zone, and there was none of the beautiful angelic high notes you hear on Capercaillie's recordings. Loreena McKennitt takes more risks and is the better performer for my money.

Also - Arlene Auger (bel canto singer, died some years back, I think). She sang Mozart's Alleluia at Charlie and Di's wedding, and it was magic.

Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: English Jon
Date: 28 Sep 01 - 10:26 AM

emma kirkby is great. but what about evelyn tubb?

EJ

Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 28 Sep 01 - 09:29 PM

Let me add another favorite example of absolutely great singing. Listen to Bozie Sturdivant singing "Ain't No Grave Can Hold My Body Down" on Rounder CD-1500 (A Treasury of Library of Congress Field Recordings, a selection of outstanding performances selected from the LOC archives by Stephen Wade. Then try to emulate that kind of traditional artistry. Damn few can come even close!

Do I hear any echoes from the rain barrel now?

Sandy

Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 30 Sep 01 - 02:14 PM

Well, I seem so share the rain barrel with Sandy (and we were never even formally introduced). As Pete Seeger said once, "Don't listen to me--listen to the people I learned from. "

Vara Ward Hall. Frank Profitt. Belle Stewart. Jeannie Robertson. Texas Gladden. Joe Heaney. Frank Harte. Walter Pardon.

A listen to where we came from may well be a great help in determining where we're going.

Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Sep 01 - 03:48 PM

Limited to singers of traditional songs who didn't necessarily grow up with traditional music, I particularly like to listen to ones who just sing and don't try to affect a "folk sound" (whatever the heck that is). Ones who pop immediately into my mind are Gordon Bok, Stan Rogers, Jean Redpath, Mary Black, and from a few years back, Cynthia Gooding. Now, there was a voice and a half! I also like to listen to Richard Dyer-Bennet (not everybody's cup of tea), but I consider him to be in an entirely different category.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: Mickey191
Date: 30 Sep 01 - 05:53 PM

They truly sang as one-The Everlys. Perfection, IMO. Neil Young sang Lennon's "Imagine" the other night at a charity event and sounded great. I'll add Nat Cole & Jo Stafford.

Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: GUEST,Aldus
Date: 01 Oct 01 - 11:56 AM

Maddy prior, Sandy Denny, June Tabor, Ella Fitzgerald, Bessie Smith, Maria Callas, Diana Krall, James Taylor, Stan Rogers, Bruce Cockburn, Tony Benett, Joni Mitchell, Vera Lynn, Edith Piaf, Karen Carpenter, Anne Murray and Laura Smith. I also was surprised to Whitney Houston on the list..she looses the tune and confuse volume with intensity.

Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: GUEST,Aldus
Date: 01 Oct 01 - 11:57 AM

Omy God, How could I forget Emmy Lou Harris.

Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: RoyH (Burl)
Date: 02 Oct 01 - 08:47 AM

Sandy, Dick, I too listen in a rain barrel.

Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Oct 01 - 12:17 AM

Maria Callas and Karen Carpenter in the same sentence? Now that is eclectic listening!

Since you're naming some folks who are long gone, a couple of regional voices should be named, for the character as much as the voice: Ivar Haglund and Don McCune. Wonderful voices. Throw in Stan Boreson and you have the Seattle tv triumvirate of the 1960's.

Richard Dyer-Bennett -- well, he was just about perfect.

Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: GUEST,ponytrax
Date: 04 Oct 01 - 12:33 AM

jeez, I seem to have lost my cookies. Well, I won't fix it tonight, anyway

Let's go non-European: Gabby Pahinui Ladysmith Black Mambazo (I think I've mis-spelled that)

why? raises the hair on the back of my neck, even on CD, that's why.

Subject: RE: Perfect singers
From: GUEST,REL
Date: 14 May 11 - 11:59 AM

I'm surprised that I've seen two people question Whitney Houston's voice. All be it, now, her voice is not very good. but in the late 80's and early 90's, she had a perfect voice. Perfect pitch, delivery, tone, runs, belts, transitions, clarity-There was nothing wrong with her voice in the world. listen to this- no one has heard it, but it will knock your socks off!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aVByaDMpyk

Back then she sounded like an angel to me. I think Aretha might be the best female singer/artist on the planet, but she has a nasal tone.

Subject: RE: Perfect singers
From: harpmolly
Date: 14 May 11 - 01:08 PM

I have to agree about Alison Krauss (listening to the AK/US Live album as I do frequently, I'm always amazed by the utter perfection and vocal purity in her performance. It's one thing to sound flawless on a studio recording, quite another to pull that off in concert.) Also Eva Cassidy. Oh, and Lisa Gerrard...there's a reason her voice is on so many movie soundtracks!

Now, here's a shocker and something that may get me in trouble: one of the most powerful and intense voices I've heard in recent years is the singer P!nk. Most of what she does may not show it off, but when she belts out a high note it is absolutely incredible, and I don't for a moment attribute it to AutoTune or any such nonsense. She simply has an incredible instrument.

One last thing: I also have to agree with those who say that it's not just the voice but how you use it. There are plenty of singers (Celine Dion comes to mind) who have quite an amazing instrument, but whose vocal technique/expression leaves me cold or downright repulsed. As someone said above, there's a certain self-indulgence that really turns me off with some singers. I used to love Tori Amos, who has a fantastic voice, but her performance devolved to the point where every song was basically a long, incomprehensible, almost masturbatory vocal puddle. I couldn't relate to it any longer.

*sigh* Here I am, a full-on curmudgeon at age 36. So be it. ;)

Molly

Subject: RE: Perfect singers
From: GUEST,Azoic
Date: 14 May 11 - 01:30 PM

June tabor

Subject: RE: Perfect singers
From: Elmore
Date: 15 May 11 - 09:35 AM

Raul Malo

Subject: RE: Perfect singers
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 15 May 11 - 10:44 AM

What fun to read a thread I started 10+ years ago. I notice my spelling and typing skills are about the sam.

I have noticed my opinion of voices is unchanged but I have added voices to my list. I have gone on and listened to many of the singers mentioned by the posters and perhaps that was the point of all this.

I hadn't heard Tracey Grammer and her pure tones when I started this list nor had I heard Norma Waterson(incomparable). And I guess I forgot entirely about Cilla Fisher.

I hadn't heard James Kellaghan or Bob Franke either.

I never asked who had better voices. I think Ronnie Drew's was a perfect voice even if the instrument was a bit rusty. The same with Iris Dement, I don't believe hers is all affectation (Not so sure about Nanci Griffith)

The point is and was I went on a listened to people I had never heard and found great singers and great songs.

Don

Subject: RE: Perfect singers
From: David C. Carter
Date: 15 May 11 - 02:11 PM

Have found a lot of people I'd never heard of before in reading this thread.
Thanks to all of you.

I like Sinead O'Connor,backed by the Chieftens singing:Factory Girl,
She moved through the fair,Foggy Dew,all on Youtube.
I think the late Laura Nyro had a great voice,and wrote great songs to go with it.Feel she was sadly underated.Just my opinion!

David

Subject: RE: Perfect singers
From: GUEST,eldergirl
Date: 31 Jul 13 - 10:52 AM

Annie Haslam, yes. Eva Cassidy, yes. And Jane Kennaway, not folk but a belter of a voice full of character. Where did she go?
To lift the hairs on the back of your neck, catch Helen North singing her Sky Pirate song.
And alas there'll only ever be one Gene Clark.

Subject: RE: Perfect singers
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Jul 13 - 11:08 AM

"Perfect singers"
God forbid - it's the imperfections and idiosyncrasies of singing (traditional at least) that make it interesting, and the search for unattainable perfection that makes it come alive.
Then again, we might be able to get computers to sing perfectly - but it wouldn't be the same, would it?
Perfection is in the ear of the listener and "we can't please all of the people all of the time" as somebody once said.
Personally, there are few of the singers that have been offered up here that I would walk to King Georges Park to listen to if they were giving a year of free concerts - Dick Greenhaus's and Sandy Paton's maybe.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Perfect singers
From: sciencegeek
Date: 01 Aug 13 - 10:00 AM

we know good performers who do not have "great" voices, but are able to engage their audiences ... so yeah, a live performance is great, not so much would I want to listen to a CD where all is lost except the instruments & vocals. and there are those with highly trained voices that never seem able to break free of the constraints imposed by a particular style. I'm thinking of great operatic or classical voices that try to do folk or more contemporary works. ouch..

then again, I've heard some singers that must have learned to sing naturally before they got "trained", so they can switch back & forth and sound good in each genre.

one of the few things that mom could retain during her dementia was her love of music, though her focus got smaller & smaller, and in the end it was only Roberto Alagna that she wanted to listen to. I fear I will never be able to listen to Don Carlo without flashbacks ... sigh... but I made a point of getting every CD or DVD he made for mom to enjoy... coming from a musical family, he sang cabaret before being mentored by Placido Domingo and when he sings Sicilian folk songs, it never sounds affected.

So, I guess there are more great voices than there are great singers because the singer must capture more than just the notes... they need to understand the song and let it flow the way it should, without affectation or distortion... whatever... my 2 cents worth, anyway

Subject: RE: Perfect singers
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Aug 13 - 10:46 AM

Ethel Merman the one's for me with that magic voice. Such subtlety and a voice like a nightingale!

Subject: RE: Perfect singers
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Aug 13 - 11:19 AM

(ROFL) dear Lord, unnamed guest, I hope with all my heart that you were joking!!
Not that Ethel couldn't present a song with verve and panache, but subtle?! ROFL again...
Jim, your comments on perfection reminded me of a skating championship a few years back, when a lovely Japanese lass skated a perfect technical round with top scores for that, but almost no Soul or Artistic Merit at all. So I guess there are singers in the same boat.

Subject: RE: Perfect singers
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Aug 13 - 11:35 AM

"So I guess there are singers in the same boat"
I have a dear friend who is (technically) one of the finest singers I have ever heard.
One week-end we were involved in running a singing seminar away from home and in the singing session he sang one of my favourite ballads, Sheath and Knife, He sang it so movingly it brought tears to my eyes and when I looked at him I saw that it was having the same effect on him.
As we drove home he could not stop talking about it - it obviously disturbed him that he had become so emotionally involved in it that he might have lost technical control.
Although he has not lost any of his skill I have never been as moved as I was that night - he seems to have deliberately distanced himself from his songs - sad.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Perfect singers
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 01 Aug 13 - 11:50 AM

Aw, c'mon, they could have nominated Florence Foster Jenkins...
But then again, if you listen to the original Cecil Sharp recordings, she was a vocal diva by comparison.
And hopefully many folkies will feel the same about Kathleen Ferrier! (Carefully couched to be able to jump both ways, haha) Yet there's but a step from her to Catherine Bott, whose purity of tone in the Early Music world definitely influenced Maddy Prior.
Part of the ideal of tone is that it should be able to reach out and caress the listener with the sense of the song - sometimes seductive, sometime impulsive, sometimes wavering. No one voice is likely to ba able to master the lot, so let's appreciate those who try.

Subject: RE: Perfect singers
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Aug 13 - 01:18 PM

Somehow, I missed this thread 13 years ago. Maybe it's best I did.

But reading it now, I see so many 'favorite' singers put forward for a wide variety or reasons. It's hard to argue with some... like Jean Redpath & Edith Piaf, who did quite different things.

After over 50 years of listening to (mostly) folk music, I would not use the word 'perfect', except to refer to somone who's pitch is always right on...and Redpath comes close.

But I do tend to agree with several others that 'presentation' of a song in a believable, powerful way with emphasis ON the song rather than the singer is what impresses me the most.

The American Roscoe Holcomb (The High Lonesome Sound) was known to sing a moving ballad and then be emotionally unable to sing anything else for awhile.
And I seem to remember that Jean Redpath took quite awhile to even attempt "Sheath & Knife" after hearing Helen Schneyer sing it. (see the threads on Helen to get the point).
One of my own favorite performances is the recording of Davey Stewart singing "The Merchant's Son and the Beggar's Daughter"....his melodeon only made it stronger.

These days, I am quite taken with the huge variety that Danny Spooner does, all done well, but never making himself the point. Several years ago, when Danny was touring the US, I sat beside him in a pub which had notably mediocre acoustics due to a ceiling beam that divided the room in half. It was common for singers to walk to the center in order to be heard at all over the usual pub noises.
Danny & I were sitting at the far rear of the place, and when his turn came, I whispered that he might want to go to the center. He never replied, and never even stood up... then he opened his mouth and the place suddenly quieted down and people in the far front window turned to see who was overwhelming their conversation. THAT is singing (one type) and the song never sounded strained...just powerful.

Subject: RE: Perfect singers
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 01 Aug 13 - 03:57 PM

Thirteen years on and this thread still prompts consideration and thoughtful comments. Now I might have asked this question differently; assigned a different criteria maybe.

I have heard many new voices that I would add. Danny Spooner has the same effortless power as Paddy Reilly and Luke Kelly. I would also add Banjo Joe Burke.

I hadn't heard the amazing baritone of The Sons of The San Joaquin. And only this past year have I discovered Juni Fisher.

And I no longer care if there are perfect singers or perfect voices. What matters is that the singing continues and good singers do justice to good songs.

Don

Subject: RE: Perfect singers
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Aug 13 - 02:54 AM

come back paddy reilly to bally james duff, all is forgiven.

Subject: RE: Perfect singers
From: GUEST,jeff
Date: 02 Aug 13 - 06:41 PM

Have to agree about Eva Cassidy. Most great singers have 2 or 3 genres in which they are virtually untouchable. Also, elements to their vocal giftings. Ms. Cassidy could cross genres like NOBODY else, ever. And she's better than those considered the best in those genres. She sings trad material better than ANY of the Celtic Women, et al, Haley Westerna who lifted EC's version of 'I Know You By Heart' and didn't play the guitar part like Eva did. She sang jazz better than Sarah Vaughn, soul better than Aretha, folk better than...well anybody. Show tunes and standards better than Garland.

Listen to her version of 'You've Changed' or 'I Know You By Heart" on Youtube. They're unrivaled. The list goes on and on. It's almost embarrassing to listen to young singers directly rip off Eva's takes on classic songs in today's marketplace. Faith Hill stole her version of 'Over The Rainbow', virtually note for note, but couldn't pull it off because she sorely lacked Eva's delicate touch.

She is singular. The never has been or will there ever be another w/her breadth of talent. Can you imagine Whitney, Maria or Aretha trying to sing 'Kathy's Song'? They'd butcher it. Any of them would gild the lily to the point where the song would be virtually unrecognizable. As sacrilegious as some would think that is to say. The main thing about her, though was her innate instinct to NEVER lose track of the narrative. Can't say the same about Streisand. She's her own biggest fan.

Not only that she played on and arranged every single track she ever recorded. Her versions of Wayfaring Stranger and Wade On The Water were SCRATCH VOCALS. Can you imagine? SHE thought she could improve on them. There's an old cliche about singing and music in general: Excellence by repetition becomes mediocrity. Cases in point. Joni Mitchell and Janis Joplin.

Everybody who posts to the Mudcat will disagree about SOMETHING in this post. That's the nature of the beast here. But, if ANYBODY can find another singer in the latter 20th or early 21st century who's better across the board. Bring it on. Edith Piaf? Couldn't sing soul or jazz to save her life. Beverly Sills? Nope. Ethel Mermon? Kristen Chenoweth? Sophie Tucker? Fontella Bass? Jonell Mosser? Linda Ronstadt? Keep 'em comin'. They ALL have limitations. All except Eva. There's no doubt had she taken up opera she'd have killed that as well.

Btw, +1 to the person who posted about Pink. VERY underrated, but a honest to goodness kick-ass singer and a good woman to boot.

Subject: RE: Perfect singers
From: GUEST,Lopsidedtiger
Date: 02 Aug 13 - 07:52 PM

I can't believe Doc Watson was only mentioned once. I could listen to him all day. I love June Tabor, too, although I think Doc fits the bill of the op's description rather better.