Irish Titles

Subject: Irish Titles
From: GUEST,Banjo Johnny
Date: 15 Jun 00 - 01:34 PM

Is there a place to find help on pronouncing Irish (Gaelic) song titles? I have a bunch of them in books & such, and it would help to know how to say them. Would also be nice to know what they mean, but that may be asking too much. Johnny in OKC

Subject: RE: Irish Titles
From: MudGuard
Date: 15 Jun 00 - 01:45 PM

Perhaps this site can help you!
MudGuard

Subject: RE: Irish Titles
From: GUEST,Banjo Johnny
Date: 15 Jun 00 - 07:04 PM

Thanks, Mud Guard! That hits the spot. Johnny in OKC

Subject: RE: Irish Titles
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 15 Jun 00 - 09:36 PM

Johnny: You may also find that a good Irish dictionary is helpful or find a book called Irish Self Taught. Many of the bigger book stores will carry one or the other. I suggest that you pick up one or the other because there were revisions to siomplify Irish -Gaelic spelliong when Ireland gained its freedom and started teaching Irish as a required course of education. Some song titles will obviously pre-date that time. (1922 or so) Aine, can you help? My Irish what very little I know is limited basically to hello and kiss my a**. And before i get the lecture, that I richly deserve given my mudcat handle, I promise to try ever so much harder, Neil

Subject: RE: Irish Titles
From: Bluebeard
Date: 15 Jun 00 - 10:00 PM

Thanks MudGuard, I've been wonderin' what to do about my need to understand more about my ancestral language. That looks like a likely and helpful site. Slainte !

Subject: RE: Irish Titles
From: MudGuard
Date: 16 Jun 00 - 07:22 AM

I also found some Irish/Scottish/Manx-Gaelic to English dictionaries
MudGuard (who is always glad if he can help)

Subject: RE: Irish Titles
From: Áine
Date: 16 Jun 00 - 10:06 AM

Well done, Mudguard. Those are very good reference sites for beginners.

And Banjo Johnny, if you can't figure out the titles of your tunes/songs with the help of the dictionaries, then please ask for help on the Mudcat. There are several of us who could help you out.

Good luck, Áine

Subject: RE: Irish Titles
From: GUEST,Curious
Date: 16 Jun 00 - 11:59 AM

There is an Irish folk song that I think I know the chorus to, but cannot figure out the title. I would love some assistance if anyone knows. The lyrics that I know are: "It's a long, long way from Claire to here," and I know that line is repeated several times throughout the song. Anyone know what its called? Thanks!

Subject: RE: Irish Titles
From: MMario
Date: 16 Jun 00 - 12:08 PM

Curios Guest, The song, oddly enough, is known as "From Clare To Here" or "CLARE TO HERE" and the lyrics may be found at the blue clickie thing

url=http://www.mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=1201

Subject: RE: Irish Titles
From: GUEST,Curious
Date: 16 Jun 00 - 12:33 PM

MMario, that's the one. Thank you very much!

Subject: RE: Irish Titles
From: GUEST,Banjo Johnny
Date: 16 Jun 00 - 04:29 PM

Mud Guard et al. -- Fantastic! How in the world do you come up with them?? Now I can finally translate Manx to Klingon. Thanks again! Johnny in OKC

Subject: RE: Irish Titles
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 16 Jun 00 - 07:20 PM

Here's a go if any one is sick enough to do it tranlate Seven deadly sins into Klingon. Neil

Subject: RE: Irish Titles
From: GUEST,Banjo Johnny
Date: 17 Jun 00 - 12:41 AM

Just a joke, sarge. I just read about a guy who spent the last five years translating the Bible into Klingon. Can hardly wait til it comes out. Johnny in OKC

Subject: RE: Irish Titles
From: Lanfranc
Date: 17 Jun 00 - 06:20 AM

Just a small point, although obviously Irish in influence, "Clare to Here" was written by Ralph McTell, who, I understand, is a bit sniffy about havin his lyrics available on the WWW.

It's still a good song.

Is there scope for a thread about the adoption by Irish singers of non-Irish songs which are subsequently assumed to be of Irish Origin ("Green Fields of France", "The Band Played Waltzing Matilda", "Sylveste", "Clare to Here" etc.)

I await the first such that acquires a Gaelic title.

I remember an introduction that gave me a smile - "Will you welcome Chris Newman and Maire Ni Ch.. , Maire Ni Chow, oh, sod it, the fine harpist Mary the Unpronounceable!"

Subject: RE: Irish Titles
From: MudGuard
Date: 17 Jun 00 - 08:42 AM

These links I gathered thru some years of web-surfing. Everytime I find something interesting, it gets stored - you never know when you will need it again...
MudGuard (with a capital G but without a blank between Mud and Guard)

Subject: RE: Irish Titles
From: Noreen
Date: 17 Jun 00 - 02:14 PM

To carry on Alan's thread of 'adopted' Irish songs, my Grimbarian husband is amused at the regular appearance of the Bill Meek/John Connolly song, "Fiddlers' Green", in compilations of Irish folk songs. I've also heard of more than one folk group with names based on the song. I'm not sure whether the composers, who I believe are still writing and performing in Grimsby, find it so amusing!

Subject: RE: Irish Titles
From: InOBU
Date: 18 Jun 00 - 07:46 AM

Ah the danger of Irish mispronunciation.
A funny story told to me by the past pres of the New York Celtic League... a neo pagan came up to him at a part and in hushed tones said, Do you do it? Liam pretended not to hear, the fellow repeted it several times, at which time Liam patted his arm and said, I am sorry but, though I don't feel anything is wrong with it perse, I am not gay! Red faced the neo pagan explained that he was self almost taught Irish and was trying to say Dia duit! Probably one of these fellows who sais Sam Hain rahter than sow win for Samhain - oh well, tred lightly on the mother tongue
Larry

Subject: RE: Irish Titles
From: GUEST,BANJO JOHNNY
Date: 19 Jun 00 - 02:38 AM

As I make it out, "dia dhuit" (good day) would be pronounced something like JEE-a Ghootch. Close?

Subject: RE: Irish Titles
From: alison
Date: 19 Jun 00 - 02:58 AM

Gee-a-gwitch, or Dee-a-gwitch..... depending on which part of Ireland. The one with the "G" is the Donegal version. If I remember rightly "Dia dhuit" translates as "God to you". The reply being "God and Mary to you"... "Dia's Muire dhuit" pronounce roughly ... Gee-as-moor-a-gwitch.....

there you go... astound your gaelic speaking friends

slainte (slawn-sha = your good health / cheers)

alison

Subject: RE: Irish Titles
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 19 Jun 00 - 08:54 PM

Thanks all: I've learned a bit tonight. Dias Mhuir a dhuit is also used to say hello in some parts of Ireland and the response is Ta agus (Forgive the lack of accents) which in rough translation is And you also. Have a great night, Neil

Subject: RE: Irish Titles
From: GUEST,Michael Hayes
Date: 19 Jun 00 - 11:27 PM

ok, you guys are my last hope. A search engine led me here, after sending me off on multiple wild-goose chases. Dejanews turned up a thread hinting that the answer I seek was in an older thread, but _that_ thread apparently isn't in the archive. Hours have passed.

So, someone, PLEASE... what does "An Phis Fhliuch" mean, and how is it pronounced? All my searching has turned up only that it may or may not be "the (something) wet", and that an alternate title is "The Choice Wife" -- hey, this isn't going to turn out to be one of those "Cuckoo's Nest" kind of things, is it?!?!?

please, just tell me -- I think it was daylight when I started this quest...

Subject: RE: Irish Titles
From: alison
Date: 19 Jun 00 - 11:40 PM

Hi Michael, welcome to Mudcat....

you are usually better to start a new thread for each request otherwise they get lost in ones like this and make it difficult to find again..

I don't know this tune but have heard it mentioned before... and apparently it translates as "the wet c*nt", hence the alternative title of "the choice wife"....

I am not going to attempt the pronounciation

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Irish Titles
From: GUEST,Michael Hayes
Date: 20 Jun 00 - 01:13 AM

alison, thanks much! Well, that explains why I couldn't find a full translation at the dictionary site, and why the title is always given in Gaelic.

It's a great tune, it's a slip jig -- I transcribed it off a Planxty album a while back, where it's in a set with "The Kid on the Mountain" -- anyway, I was going through old notebooks tonight and thought I'd try to look up the meaning of the title.

OK -- I found the link to the pronunciation guide earlier in this thread, "an phis (fish)" I think I understand (or do I), "fhliuk" I can't quite decipher, the dipthong "iu" isn't listed in the charts, and the rules are a little confusing. "lyuke", is that somewhere close? Anyone?

what a great site! thanks

Subject: RE: Irish Titles
From: alison
Date: 20 Jun 00 - 08:56 AM

according to my notes.... "fh" makes no sound.... so I guess at lee-yuck...

any chance of a copy of the tune Michael? I love slip jigs....

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Irish Titles
From: Áine
Date: 20 Jun 00 - 09:02 AM

alison - I'd be interested in where you got that translation for the 'an phis fhliuch' - which I would translate as 'the wet (or spongy) peas'. Maybe I don't move in the right circles, but I've never heard 'pis' used as a euphemism for the other word you mentioned. Also, the 'is' in 'pis' in this case is pronounced almost like the English word 'peas'; at least, I've never heard it pronounced any other way (even in Donegal).

And Irish sergeant, alison is correct in her post saying that the correct response to 'Dia duit' is 'Dia is Muire duit'. (If you said 'Tá agus', all you'd be saying is 'Is and') This is a formal and old fashioned greeting, however lovely; most folks just say 'halo' when they meet each other (unless, of course, they're at a Conradh meeting (hahaha)).

-- Áine

Subject: RE: Irish Titles
From: barrygeo
Date: 20 Jun 00 - 09:09 AM

An phis fhliuch correct pronuncuiation. On fish fluck Will vary slightly depending on which gaeltacht area you are in.

Slan agus Beannacht leat(traditional farewell - Health and blessings go with you - is literal translation)

BMacG

Subject: RE: Irish Titles
From: GUEST,Michael Hayes
Date: 20 Jun 00 - 01:02 PM

thanks to all for the replies! Alison, my pencilled scribblings don't scan well, and I just dl'd some abc utitlities so am just sorting out how to use it.

Luckily though I think the tune is already in the Ceolas abc archive -- one of the hits I got last night from altavista took me to a Ceolas ftp directory.

If it's not there post back to this thread, and I'll try to get it into abc -- the version I have is taken off of Planxty's "The Well Below The Valley".

heh, this place is addictive, I've already squandered two day's practice time reading here...

Subject: RE: Irish Titles
From: Fiolar
Date: 20 Jun 00 - 01:20 PM

Just in passing = "Pis" is also the word in Irish for "A Pit." So the "The Wet Pit" could be in order. Potatoes were stored at one time in a pit. Great care had to be taken to ensure that they remained dry over the Winter months, otherwise they rotted. I doubt very much if it meant the "C" word as that is more likely to be "faighean." Mike

Subject: RE: Irish Titles
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 20 Jun 00 - 08:21 PM

Aine: I stand corrected and if i could remember who told me that by error i'm sure, I would also correct them. My apologies Alison, I overloarded the mouth before engaging the grey matter! Mea culpa, Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. Thank you all for broadening my horizons, Neil PS Good to hear from you again Aine!!

Subject: RE: Irish Titles
From: GUEST,Michael Hayes
Date: 21 Jun 00 - 11:34 AM

Alison, I'd guess you've already figured this out, but the abc of "An Phis Fhliuch" is not at Ceolas, but here: http://www.gre.ac.uk/~c.walshaw/abc/index/wwabc.html

the info-glut is a bit overwhelming -- I was marginally aware that there was some info on Irish tunes on the net, but my god!!! Hope the link works ok, I don't know how to do HTML, but it should appear as text anyway.

thanks to everyone!

Subject: RE: Irish Titles
From: alison
Date: 21 Jun 00 - 11:44 AM

Michael I found it here at JC's tune finder.. great site for finding tunes by the way.... available as MIDI, GIF, abc etc.......

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Irish Titles
From: alison
Date: 21 Jun 00 - 11:47 AM

Interestingly they translate it on the GIF as "The wet pussy" or "the boy in the bush"

here's the home page for JC's ABC tune finder

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Irish Titles
From: GUEST,Michael Hayes
Date: 22 Jun 00 - 12:37 PM

yeah, that seems to be the consensus -- well, whatever the inspiration for "An Phis Fhliuch", it was clearly something the composer held in great esteem, it's a wonderful tune ;)

There's a brief history of it at the Fiddler's Companion site, worth a look.

the "tune finder" link simplifies things quite a bit, thank you!

Subject: RE: Irish Titles
From: GUEST,GM
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 07:10 PM

ten years too late - but just to save Alison - as a fluent Irish speaker: "pis" (sometimes "pit" - Irish word, not a pit for potatoes as someone incorrectly stated...!)is most definitely as she translated. Its can also be "pea" but... :) It is one of the pasttimes in Irish speaking circles to request that tune on the radio to hear the DJ squirm

Subject: RE: Irish Titles
From: GUEST,Jennifer
Date: 08 Apr 12 - 04:51 PM

Most Irish musicians who don't want to get beer thrown at the by female session-mates call An Phis Fhliuch by the original title, O'Farrell's Welcome to Limerick. That name is in the 1801 O'Farrell's National Tutor. Willie Clancy recorded it as The Choice Wife, which is another inoffensive alternative.

Subject: RE: Irish Titles
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Apr 12 - 07:00 AM

"which is another inoffensive alternative...."
Wonder what they'd make of Clancy's "I buried my wife and I'll dance on her grave"!!
Jim Carroll