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Lyr Req: The East India Man
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Subject: Lyr Add: THE EAST INDIA MAN (from Keith Kendrick) From: Albatross Date: 23 Jun 00 - 03:18 AM The following is a really nice sea shanty from the singing of Keith Kendrick from Derbyshire now living in Kent. He included it on a tape recording he did a few years back. I've transcribed the words below as I hear them but am not sure of one bit of text...It sounds like "Rousing on the sheets of a sail" anybody know what "Rousing" is and how to spell it? [draft - see corrections below] THE EAST INDIA MAN It's many's the time I've sung this song when the wind's been blowing of a gale Hoisting up a yard all, shaking out a reef or rousing on the sheets of a sail. I've shipped on board of a man-o-war in the merchant service too, And I've fought for me king and me countery while I've sailed on the ocean blue. Illy ally illy ally oh, cheerily boys cheerily Bend your backs and give a pull Cheerily I say I say With a long pull and a strong pull We'll haul away together boys Delay every inch of that, delay boys, delay. On a bright May day, we sailed away, on a great East India ship Though it's many, many years ago me boys, I'll not forget that trip. We said goodbye to Portsmouth Docks, to Susan, Kate and Jane, But we hadn'a been a-sailing an hour or more when we joined in the old refrain... Illy ally illy ally oh, ... And now I'm off from sea again going to put down me roots onshore Have a bit of a spell with me long haired gal the one I do adore But there's no doubt should a war break out and seamen be required again, Well I'll join with me crew me dutiful to do and I'll join in the old refrain... Illy ally illy ally oh, ... |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The East India Man From: GUEST,Barry Finn Date: 24 Jun 00 - 02:35 AM Nope, dousing the sail(s) would mean to drop it quickly but that's more of term used for fore & aft rigs rather than square sails. I'd it seems to be more of a forebitter (and a bit more modern maybe?) than a shanty with singing of long pulls you'd think it a halyard shanty but it's quite long for that & a bit long in the tooth for a capstan too. The line hoisting up a yard all seems amiss maybe a missing word or something sounding a little different. You would hoist or raise (or lower) a yard but what's an all, it's not yardarm that's the outermost end of the yard (good place to hang from) & that you wouldn't raise or lower. Another line shipping aboard a Man-o-War is not a merchant ship even though they did sail, sometimes armed to the teeth, prepared to fight off attacks. The shaking out the reefs is very common with modern rigs but on square rigged vessels though some sails did carry reef points it was more common to bundle the sail up to the head (to the foot in a fore & aft rig) & even easier to just carry less sail. Seeing that a square sail didn't sail close to the wind but it was a very heavy driver & reefing that amount of canvas & having to dump the wind out of her sails would be inefficient. Putting down me roots onshore sounds a bit off color in the terms of seamans lingo, I'm thinking that this is sounding more & more like a recent attempt at trying to write something sounding old. The Blackwall docks, home to the builders of the Blackwall frigates & East Indiamen, closed in the early 1800's so the timing is even off a bit. Sorry, I only started out wondering about the "Rousing" part & started giving it maybe a little thought than I should've. Goodnight from big mouth Barry |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The East India Man From: Áine Date: 26 Jun 00 - 10:39 AM refresh |
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Subject: Lyr Add: THE EAST INDIA MAN From: Albatross Date: 27 Jun 00 - 03:26 AM Thanks to Barry Finn for the informative comments on the East India Man sea shanty. I checked the tape for more information. It said a john Adams unearthed it who was a fellow member of a group called the druids, from a BBC schools publication "singing together". Maybe a reliable source, but still no clue to its genuine antiquity though. The line with "yard all" is in fact "hoisting up a yard OR shaking out a reef". It still leaves the question what does "rousing on" mean. Maybe it's a corruption of raising up. Here's is the adjusted version:
[draft - see corrections below] |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The East India Man From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 27 Jun 00 - 10:25 AM Singing Together books sometimes named their immediate source, generally commercial published collections which themselves were not always particularly accurate. You could always get in touch with John Adams himself and ask if he knows any more about the song. He's currently the director of The Village Music Project at the University of Salford; contact details may be found at their website: The Village Music Project. It might also be worth posting a question at the uk.music.folk newsgroup. Malcolm |
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Subject: Lyr Add: THE EAST INDIA MAN From: Albatross Date: 03 Jul 00 - 03:00 AM Thanks to Malcolm Douglas for the John Adams lead. Johnny gave me Keith Kendrick's email address who gave me this info: "I have every reason to believe that it was not a 'maritime' song - as such - but a novelty item used in the English Music Halls in the 1800's, but Johnny found it in a Children's Radio broadcast support publication called 'Singing Together for Schools' in 1970.
It seems there are several interpretations of the term "rouse". In this case, I believe it refers to "heaving on a line" in order to "raise the sail". I believe it is itself a well - worn corruption or misuse (By the maritime fraternity itself) of the original meaning to "rouse" the sailors from their beds as in "rise", "arise",..."raise"? I'm afraid that's the best I can do, hope it helps. If you check through the text you wrote - I have, with helpful intention, entered a few corrections.
THE EAST INDIA MAN |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The East India Man From: GUEST,Jack Southwold Date: 21 Nov 08 - 06:34 AM are you sure its not 'belay' instead of 'dealy' in the chorous? I seem to remember singing this at school in the 1960's and can still churn out the chorous much to the suprise of my wife lubber yer top gallants! |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The East India Man From: MartinRyan Date: 21 Nov 08 - 06:45 AM Hi GUESTJack Yeah - "belay" it is. It's corrected in the last version above. Regards |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The East India Man From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 21 Nov 08 - 04:18 PM Rouse (rowse) in Nautical usage since the 17th c. See Oxford English Dictionary. "To haul in, out, or up, with force." Nomenclator Navalis, 1625. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The East India Man From: Charley Noble Date: 22 Nov 08 - 10:06 AM Neat! Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The East India Man From: Joe Offer Date: 22 Nov 08 - 03:23 PM Any chance somebody could send me a MIDI of the tune, or a scan of the page from Singing Together so I could transcribe and post a tune? Thanks. joe@mudcat.org |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The East India Man From: Noreen Date: 24 Sep 18 - 03:45 PM Tom Lewis performs the East Indiaman and explains cheerily versus handsomely at the Mystic Sea Music Festival 2012 I note, from Tom's singing: v1 line 1 ...when the wind's been blowing half a gale v1 line 2 ...or hauling on the sheet of a sail v3 line 1 ...going to coil up me ropes on the shore |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The East India Man From: GUEST,SPB at work Date: 26 Sep 18 - 09:23 AM I have a cooy of the sheet music buried deep in my paper archives, I'll see if I can unearth it. Does anyone know how to make a blue clicky for a scanned document? |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The East India Man From: GUEST,Bob Coltman Date: 28 Sep 18 - 06:44 PM Other possible meanings: A "rouse" can also be a mighty shout, as when hauling. "Dousing" can mean wetting the sails plentifully with water to make them take the wind better. Bob |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The East India Man From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Date: 29 Sep 18 - 06:30 AM GUEST,Barry Finn: "Nope, dousing the sail(s) would mean to drop it quickly...." ^^^Almost involuntarily, eg: a squall or to surrender. To strike one's sails or colours. Oddly enough, same as strike oil… or water. As in: “dowsing” or “doodlebuggin'.” Seems to be Grandpa Conchy's 'hokum' month on Mudcat(?) Middle Low German schlag-ruthe (striking rod) to 16th century Cornish duschen, duschan, (Middle English, to strike or fall.) “In 1691 the philosopher John Locke, who was born in the West Country, used the term deusing-rod for the old Latin name virgula divina.” [dowsing wiki] |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The East India Man From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Date: 29 Sep 18 - 06:33 AM “…rousing on the sheets of a sail. Spinnaker takedown from hell? Conchy say: “Rooz'n 'de sletch!” “ROUZE, to raise game from its harbour (hunting.) To haul in that part of a hawser which lies slake in the water. (sea.)” [From: An Universal Etymological Dictionary English Dictionary, (London, 1731)] “ROUSSING, the act of pulling together upon a cable, hauser, &c. without the assistance of tackles, capsterns, or other mechanical powers. It is particularly used in the exercise of removing a ship from one place to another, by means of ropes and anchors, See the article Warping.” [Falconer, William, An Universal Dictionary of the Marine, (London: T. Cadell, 1769)] “Rouse-In, to, to haul in any slack cable, or *slatch which may lie on the bottom, when a vessel lies to a single anchor. The reason for rousing in such slack cable is that otherwise it might foul the anchor by becoming twisted round the shank or stock as the ship swings to wind or tide.” [The Oxford Companion to Ships & the Sea, (London: Oxford U. Press, 1976, p.725)] “SLATCH of Fair-Weather [sea phrase] is when there comes an interval of fair weather, after long foul-weather.” [Universal Etymological] “SLATCH, is generally applied to the period of a transitory breeze of wind, or the length of its duration.” [Universal Marine] “ROUSTABOUTS Circus jargon for the unskilled laborers and workmen on the show. Roustabouts are those who travel with the circus and do not include the laborers who are employed each day locally to augment the crew. Signed on as being generally useful, the roustabouts perform duties such as setting up tents, carrying props in and out of the ring and helping to clean up after the animals during performance.” [Ogden, Tom, Two Hundred Years of the American Circus, (New York: Tom Ogden, 1993, p.307)] IE: They “take up the slack.” Same generalist definition for the oil patch except it's a proper job title now. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The East India Man From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Date: 29 Sep 18 - 04:41 PM Slight drift: I'd always just assumed the German muscial genre of schlager (hits) came straight from the German. Hold the phone: “The German word schlager (itself a calque of the English word hit) is also a loanword in some other languages (Hungarian, Russian, Hebrew, Romanian, for example), where it retained its meaning of a "(musical) hit". The style has been frequently represented at the Eurovision Song Contest and has been popular since it originated in 1956, although it is gradually being replaced by other pop music styles.” [wiki] “Hit the lights” - douse the lights, though I've heard it for both on & off with the PowerPoint set. |
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