Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafemuddy

Post to this Thread - Printer Friendly - Home
Page: [1] [2]


Groves of Boho

GUEST 12 Aug 17 - 03:33 PM
Keith A of Hertford 13 Apr 16 - 03:37 AM
leeneia 12 Apr 16 - 08:09 PM
GUEST,Raggytash 12 Apr 16 - 12:33 PM
leeneia 12 Apr 16 - 12:11 PM
Gutcher 12 Apr 16 - 10:06 AM
leeneia 12 Apr 16 - 10:03 AM
Gutcher 12 Apr 16 - 09:31 AM
GUEST 12 Apr 16 - 02:53 AM
GUEST,leeneia 11 Apr 16 - 11:46 PM
Ross Campbell 11 Apr 16 - 09:47 PM
Keith A of Hertford 11 Apr 16 - 01:13 PM
GUEST 10 Apr 16 - 08:36 AM
GUEST,leeneia 09 Apr 16 - 11:01 AM
GUEST,# 09 Apr 16 - 10:45 AM
Keith A of Hertford 09 Apr 16 - 10:42 AM
GUEST,# 09 Apr 16 - 10:29 AM
Gutcher 09 Apr 16 - 09:54 AM
GUEST,# 09 Apr 16 - 09:25 AM
GUEST,John Moulden 09 Apr 16 - 08:25 AM
Gutcher 08 Apr 16 - 01:36 PM
GUEST,leeneia 08 Apr 16 - 11:49 AM
Gutcher 08 Apr 16 - 10:23 AM
Joe Offer 08 Apr 16 - 03:23 AM
GUEST,leeneia 07 Apr 16 - 09:48 PM
GUEST,John Moulden 07 Apr 16 - 04:28 PM
GUEST,leeneia 07 Apr 16 - 09:45 AM
GUEST,leeneia 07 Apr 16 - 09:22 AM
GUEST,# 07 Apr 16 - 09:03 AM
GUEST,John Moulden 07 Apr 16 - 07:47 AM
GUEST 07 Apr 16 - 06:44 AM
GUEST,# 06 Apr 16 - 08:13 PM
GUEST,leeneia 06 Apr 16 - 11:47 AM
GUEST,leeneia 06 Apr 16 - 11:24 AM
Thompson 06 Apr 16 - 08:44 AM
GUEST,John Moulden 06 Apr 16 - 08:31 AM
GUEST,John Moulden 06 Apr 16 - 08:04 AM
GUEST,# 05 Apr 16 - 12:19 PM
GUEST,leeneia 05 Apr 16 - 10:03 AM
GUEST,# 04 Apr 16 - 06:32 AM
GUEST,# 04 Apr 16 - 06:23 AM
GUEST,# 04 Apr 16 - 06:17 AM
Keith A of Hertford 04 Apr 16 - 04:44 AM
GUEST,leeneia 03 Apr 16 - 10:36 PM
GUEST 03 Apr 16 - 11:13 AM
Keith A of Hertford 02 Apr 16 - 11:58 AM
GUEST 02 Apr 16 - 09:55 AM
GUEST 02 Apr 16 - 06:20 AM
GUEST,mary conway 04 Mar 16 - 06:30 AM
Keith A of Hertford 13 Sep 14 - 10:46 AM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:






Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Aug 17 - 03:33 PM

Knockmore means big hill. Knock is hill, more is big. Knockmore is just outside of Derrygonnelly.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Apr 16 - 03:37 AM

Irish round towers are unique structures that long predate buildings like the castle at Monea.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: leeneia
Date: 12 Apr 16 - 08:09 PM

Thanks for the link. I enjoyed studying the pictures.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 12 Apr 16 - 12:33 PM

Monea Castle has a tower as part of it's structure, in fact looking at the photographs it seems to have two.


Blue clickly out of sorts again, cut and paste the following.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=monea+tower&biw=1366&bih=628&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjxpKGhwonMAhUKVhoKHUJSCJkQ_AUIBigB#imgrc=_


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: leeneia
Date: 12 Apr 16 - 12:11 PM

There's a link above to a tune I created for this song. Today I printed it out and started to work on the chords, and I found two mistakes in it.

If you have MIDI software, do this:

1. Change the first two notes so they are not pick-up notes.

2. In measure 43, put a dot on the quarter note for the word SO.

3. Fix the 3 or 4 notes which got turned into tied notes because of mistake #2.

================
Chords for the lower version in D are D, A and G. That sounds easy, but there are lots of measures where you play three beats of one chord and one beat of another. The stepwise notes in the third line of each verse require delicate handling.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: Gutcher
Date: 12 Apr 16 - 10:06 AM

Sorry that should have been ORCHARDTON in my last post---must pay it another visit having learned from this thread that Bohon is pronounced Boe.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: leeneia
Date: 12 Apr 16 - 10:03 AM

Monea: long o as in boat or short o as in stop?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: Gutcher
Date: 12 Apr 16 - 09:31 AM

O"Brien in his book, as far as I remember, makes no mention of Boho. The unusual word itself brought me in mind of round towers.
The surname Boe was at one time most prevalent in our Isle of Arran where one finds many ancient stone structures and if any credence can be given to O"Brien they could have arrived here at an early period and been known by the place they came from, surnames only coming into use at the end of the 11th. C.
What is the current thinking on O"Briens work, he certainly ruffled a few feathers at the time of its publication {pun intended J.M.} in the early 19th. C.
When discussing the subject with a friend at the weekend he thinks that the remaining part of the round tower house of Orchardtown in Galloway may have been the base of another round tower in Scotland


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Apr 16 - 02:53 AM

Sorry, I mixed up Monea (pronounced Mon-ay rather than Mon-ee-aa) Castle with up with a round tower.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 11 Apr 16 - 11:46 PM

Hello, Ross. While you were visiting home, did you learn how to say "Monea" ? I'd like to know.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 11 Apr 16 - 09:47 PM

Monea Castle has round corner towers, but they are not the free-standing round towers such as the Devenish Round Tower or the many others found on monastic sites all around Ireland.

Fascinated to find this thread as I have just returned from a visit to my mother's home place just across the hill from Boho. Still remember the smiles from my uncle and aunt as they corrected my pronunciation the first time I read off Boho from a road-sign. It's not the only local name which gets shortened. Aughakillymaude (home of the Mummers' Centre) would appear to have five syllables but somehow gets condensed to three (Och-kli-mod).

Ross


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Apr 16 - 01:13 PM

Monea has a castle, but not a round tower.
I think the Devenish Island tower is the nearest.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Apr 16 - 08:36 AM

I have now been able to open https://archive.org/details/balladsacountry00macmgoog; place names mentioned are "Murlo's crooning stream", "the woods of Boe", "Monea", "Sthragar", "Carroo" and "Glenvar". However despite looking at OS Map No. 17 (1:50,000) which lists all the townland names in alphabetical order (and also shows their position in outline, both on the back) I cannot find Murlo, Sthragar, Carroo or Glenvar (Monea and Boe, latter spelled as Boho) are shown. However, Sthragar (sic!) is possibly "Slishgarrow), several miles west of Derrygonnelly; Carroo could be Correl Glen, and Glenvar could be Glenasheevar, these last also being several miles NW of Derrygonnelly. Admittedly these may be stretching things a bit, but there is no doubt that the song relates to the general locality between Derrygonnelly and Boho in the west of Co. Fermanagh,

Boho is not that far from South Donegal (about 15 miles as the crow flies) and Macmanus (which, I have read, is actually derived from Magnus, a Viking name*) is a common name in Co. Fermanagh.

I am not aware of a round tower at Boho, but there is one at Monea (about 7 miles from Enniskillen, beside the road to Derrygonnelly). A Mavis is a song Thrush; a leverock is I suspect a Skylark (the Scottish word for Skylark is Laverock).

* Years ago the late Magnus Magnusson (the Icelandic born first presenter of the BBC TV Quiz Show "Mastermind") appeared on a sketch on the Morecambe and Wise show (probably also on BBC). The sketch ended with Eric Morecamble and Ernie Wise arguing with MM, and Ernie Wise saying "I'll never watch you wrestle again, Mr. McManus!" This was a reference to the well-known wrestler, Mick McManus. So this ended up as a case of art imitating life (although I later learned that Mick McManus's real name was William George Matthews - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mick_McManus_(wrestler)). Morecambe and Wise were respectively christened Eric Bartholomew and Ernest Wiseman.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 09 Apr 16 - 11:01 AM

I'm glad you like the tune, #.

I have a lot of music in my system. Some mornings I wake from sleep, and there is short, original tune playing in my head. I have taken to writing them down before making breakfast. If I don't do that, it will be gone forever.

In the case of this song, I read the poem about 11 o'clock at night. I liked the poem and the birds in it, but it was high time to leave my chair and start moving around. I went into the kitchen to put clean dishes away, but that melody came into my head and would not leave me alone. And again, I knew that if I didn't open Noteworthy and write it down, it would soon be gone forever.

However, getting it all done was not simply a matter of writing down what had come into my head. The poem required quite a bit of custom tune-making. Dealing with the word 'col-leen' for example...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: GUEST,#
Date: 09 Apr 16 - 10:45 AM

Indeed there is. Great find, Keith.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Apr 16 - 10:42 AM

There is a round tower on Devenish Island in Loch Erne.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: GUEST,#
Date: 09 Apr 16 - 10:29 AM

That is a brilliant thought, Gutcher, and it is given support in that for the most part MacManus depended on oral tradition for many of his poems and stories. The unfortunate bit however is that Boho is in what is today south-west Northern Ireland and that is far from Donegal which seems to have been MacManus' stomping grounds. BUT, that may not be important. And yes, there is a round tower (of the sixty-five or so total) at Boho near Enniskillen.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: Gutcher
Date: 09 Apr 16 - 09:54 AM

Anent the pronunciation of the word Boho as Boe.
Boe was in the past a fairly common surname here in S.W.Scotland and indeed there are still five entries of the name in the telephone book.
There is a poem/ballad called John ABoe. The A being the Galloway equivalent of the Scottish Mac, Irish O and Welsh App.

Can anyone help---the name Boho puts me in mind of a book "The History of the Round Towers in Ireland" Is there any evidence of one of these structures in the Boho area?.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: GUEST,#
Date: 09 Apr 16 - 09:25 AM

I think it important to understand a few things about MacManus. His spelling was sometimes (either his or the typesetter's) a bit off, and much of his success was the result of his stories being published in the USA.

In Seumas MacManus's own words, please see the following:

http://www.catholicauthors.com/macmanus.html

We need to keep in mind that he was a writer (prose and poetry) and they do on occasion take liberties with the language.

***************************************

leeneia, excellent. I like the 'onomatopoeic dancing' of the melody because it fits so well (in my mind anyway) with what MacManus evokes in terms of the various birds and what I think of as their behaviours in the woods and meadows. Thank you and Joe for getting this on the thread.

***************************************

Last: Many of SM's works (books) are online in the same format as that linked to in the post of Date: 04 Apr 16 - 06:17 AM should anyone be looking for more of his writings. I think it important to keep in mind he was a story-teller, not an ornithographer or geographer.

Best wishes to you all.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: GUEST,John Moulden
Date: 09 Apr 16 - 08:25 AM

I've been able to download the Index of Townlands that derived from the 1851 census from www.dippam.ac.uk - no Murlo but several Murloughs, one in Donegal, near Raphoe - perhaps MacManus' locale. It's impossible to tell exactly what MacManus meant but it does seem that very few of his names apply to Fermanagh.

The controversy over whether linnets are green seems superfluous in the context of the very popular Irish song of Napoleon, 'The green linnet'. It appears that in Ireland the bird, popularly known as a linnet, was green! What name it would be given by ornithologists is unknown to me.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: Gutcher
Date: 08 Apr 16 - 01:36 PM

The error in the naming of birds was not solely down to ignorant countrymen, one mid 19th.C. tomb states referring to finches---"some finches are equally known as finches and as linnets" Linnets being brown, grey or rosey ith the grey taking on a green hue depending on the verdure in which they are seen,just as the sea appears blue under a blue sky.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 08 Apr 16 - 11:49 AM

Yes, I know.

For example, in the poem, a goldfinch is a goldie. A charming name.
But there's a difference between variation and falsehood. A linnet is not green.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: Gutcher
Date: 08 Apr 16 - 10:23 AM

Leeneia
Many places have their own names for birds, these names coming from times when bird books were not available to a mainly rural population.
Here in the west of Scotland we have the Green Lintie the Yellowyite [Yellowhammer] the Bluedykie [Hedgesparrow--from the colour of its eggs.] the Stankie [Waterhen---from its frequenting stanks and ditches]. A survey taken at the end of the 19th.C. gives the Shilfie {Chaffinch} as the most common bird in the area at that time.
These names are still used.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Apr 16 - 03:23 AM

Leeneia's MIDI files posted. Gee, what a beautiful, simple tune!


Click to play [D](joeweb)

Click to play [G](joeweb)



John Moulden, nice to see you back again. I've often had questions I thought you might be able to answer. If you don't mind, please send me an email address so I can send questions your way.
-Joe-
joe@mudcat.org


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 07 Apr 16 - 09:48 PM

The first line of the poem in the 1905 book is "When I was young, my life was glad as Murlo's crooning stream." So Murlo is almost certainly a stream. Or maybe a lake that has a crooning stream entering or leaving it.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: GUEST,John Moulden
Date: 07 Apr 16 - 04:28 PM

There is no entry for a townland called Murlo in either of the Irish Censuses for 1901 or 1911. Does anyone have access to the mid-nineteenth century Index of Townlands from the Griffiths Valuation?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 07 Apr 16 - 09:45 AM

If all goes well, there will be two versions, a low one in D and a higher one in G. The low one is suitable for an alto such as myself, and the high one would be nice for sopranos, tenors (I think) and most instruments.

I'm sticking with MacManus's place names. It's true, for example, that we can't find Murlo today, but there could have been one in 19th century. Also, rhythm and rhyme are hard. Sometimes you just have to make a place up or travel far afield two find a name with just the right sound to fit your poem.

Click to play [D](joeweb)

Click to play [G](joeweb)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 07 Apr 16 - 09:22 AM

Hello, #. I'm sending my new tune in for posting here. My experience is that Google Chrome won't play it; when I click, it merely wants to save it in My Documents. However, Internet Explorer will play it or save it.

It's long (4 verses) because Line 3 may vary enough that it calls for modifications in the notes. I folk-processed the poem some, and here are my lyrics:

1.When I was young, my life was glad as Mur-lo's croon-ing streams.
Each mor-ning was a spark-ling joy and ev'-ry day a dream.
Oh, ma-ny was the hour I spent while yet the sun was low
and list-ened to the lin-net rare that charms the groves of Boho.

2.I knew the ma-vis of Mo-nea, the black-bird of Strath-gar,
the le-ve-rock of Car-roo, the gol-die of Glen-var.
Of all the birds in bush or sky that sang so long a-go
none could com-pare the lin-net rare that charms the groves of Boho.

3.I knew a white-washed ca-bin be-side a pur-ling stream.
I knew a ro-sy cheeked col-leen as bright as mor-ning beams.
I knew a hun-dred thou-sand joys that o'er my life did flow
as the love-ly lit-tle lin-net charms the sha-dy groves of Boho.

4.I wan-dered east, I wan-dered west, I wan-dered far and near,
the lit-tle lin-net's plain-tive voice still plea-ding in my ear.
Still cal-ling, cal-ling, cal-ling "Why do you wan-der so?
Why leave this hap-py hap-py wood? Come back, come back to Boho."

5.Please god, I'll bind my bun-dle up and cut a stout black-thorn.
The ri-sing sun will meet me on the road to-mor-row morn.
"Fare-well," I'll cry and wave my hand, "Fare-well to gil-ded woe!
'The wealth I seek's, a sing-ing heart and the lin-et's lilt in Boho."
=================
The dashes are there because they needed in a music program.

#, if we both sign in, I could send you a jpg.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: GUEST,#
Date: 07 Apr 16 - 09:03 AM

Excellent, John.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: GUEST,John Moulden
Date: 07 Apr 16 - 07:47 AM

Concerning the locations - firstly in the "Groves of Boho" as posted by Mary Conway and closely similar to that in the versions in "Hidden Fermanagh" (supplied by Cathal McConnell) -

Sillees - River and also forest flowing as I stated above though Moss Lough should indeed be Ross Lough as was noted by the anonymous guest immediately above.
Monea - close to Lough Erne shore a few miles to the SE of Derrygonnelly
Stratore - to the SW of Derrygonnelly
Carngreen, also known as Carn - just west of Boho.
Knockmore - a townland near Derrygonnelly.

In other words, all those given can be located around or close to Boho.

Turning to Séamus (or as his book gives it 'Seumas') MacManus' "The little linnet of Boe"

Murlo - does not exist in Ireland unless as Murlough of which there are several ranging from County Down to NE Antrim - there is such a place in Tuscany!
Sthragar - does not exist - perhaps a misspelling of Strathgar though the nearest of this name is in Scotland.
Caroo - not local, the nearest use of the name is in Kinawley across Fermanagh.
Glenvar - not in Fermanagh, there are such places in Donegal and Tyrone.

I find it hard to accept that the traditional versions would have altered these, mainly fictitious place-names to local ones, at least not as convincingly. However, the version given by Cathal McConnell contains(Verse 5 line 3) "Farewell I'll cry, I'll weep and sigh for me now guile and woe" which compares with MacManus' "Farewell, I'll cry and wave my hand; 'Farewell to gilded woe'" and it's hard to see other than that McConnell derives from MacManus. Also, the spelling 'leverock', more commonly 'laverock' in 'Hidden Fermanagh' is the same as MacManus. The verse order in MacManus is more logically ordered, the story has a real sequence.

All in all, without other evidence, it seems more likely that MacManus was the author and that his poem was adapted/adopted traditionally. I can't see anywhere else where he might have adapted a traditional song.

Séamus MacManus' book can be downloaded and saved as a pdf and individual pages can be printed at that stage. Alternatively, single pages can be copies and pasted into a word processing document and printed from that.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Apr 16 - 06:44 AM

The link https://archive.org/details/balladsacountry00macmgoog is not currently working

It is quite correct to say that the Linnet is not green; however the Greenfinch, which like the linnet also belongs to the finch family (Fringillidae) is certainly green (it is, or at least was, on the whole a commoner bird than the linnet and would be more associated with wooded groves than the linnet, which is typically a bird of more open ground e.g. gorsy heaths, etc. I think there may be a painting of a Linnet (rather than a Greenfinch) on the Linnet Inn, but I have a feeling it has not been up too many years and that previously the sign said "Brian McKenzie's", although would need to check this. If so, then I suspect if someone was asked to paint a Linnet, they would take this at face value and look up a picture of the bird (this doesn't mean that they wouldn't recognise a linnet, but obviously to get a fairly accurate representation of a bird in a drawing or painting, you need to have an image (e.g. a photograph, drawing or painting. or even a stuffed bird, etc) in front of you to do this.

Some geographical points (although I live many miles away, I have rgularly visited this area of Co. Fermanagh on and off for many years since the mid-1970s).

(1) Belmore Mounain is a separate hill from Knockmore, lying some miles to the south-east and is even higher (c. 1,100 feet or so).

(2) The Sillees River (which rises near and flows through Correl Glen near Derrygonnelly, some miles north of Boho) is a very meandering stream and does flow near Boho (it flows into Ross Lough, not Moss Lough, by the way). However it is possible that "Sallies" (a name for willow trees, especially the smaller bushy ones with rounder leaves; I presume the name "sallow" has the same derivation) is meant. However since the Silles River does flow near Boho, my guess is that this is what was meant. (Perhaps though I am shilly-shallowing, or should that be silly-sallying?)

(3) I don't see Lough Erne or Lough Macnean mentioned in the verses above, though they may be in one of the other versions (it is not clear whether the poster above meant this, or just saw them on the map). Although the former is most often pronounced "Urn" I have heard it pronounced (something like) "Erin", i.e. with 2 syllables instead of 1, in another Irish song (whose name may be "The Rambling Irishman" as the song starts "I am a Rambling Irishman"). Lough Erne is the 2nd largest lake in Northern Ireland (though not as large as Lough Neagh) and is divided into Upper and Lower Lough Erne; the former runs more or less south and east and the latter more or less north and west from Enniskillen, the county town of Co. Fermanagh which lies roughly in the centre of the county; Upper Lough Erne joins the border with Co. Cavan and Lower Lough Erne the border with Co. Donegal (technically it becomes the River Erne at Belleek; it uses to run down to the sea at Ballyshannon, but many years ago the river was turned into a hydro-electric dam and became Assaroe Lake). Lough Macnean similarily is divided into Upper and Lower Lough Macnean; they meet at Belcoo (about 10 miles SW of Enniskillen and not far from Belmore Mountain) on the bborder with Co. Cavan (part of Upper Lough Macnean is in Co. Cavan and part is in Co. Leitrim, I think), while Lower Lough Macnean is entirely in Co. Fermanagh; the Arney River flows out from it to Upper Lough Erne some miles south of Enniskillen.

(4) As I do not have the map in front of me, I am not sure whether Stratore, Carngreen, Strathgar, and Glenvar in this area (the former sounds familiar but I wonder if Strathgar is a mis-spelling). There is a place spelled Stratonagher a few miles west of Derrygonnelly (the latter about 10 miles NW of Enniskillen) which a local man pronounced something like "Stronagher" - I wonder if this has any connection with Strathgar above.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: GUEST,#
Date: 06 Apr 16 - 08:13 PM

Internet was down here for most of last night and part of today. It'll take me a day to catch up with y'all. And I sure would like to hear the melody you've composed, leeneia :-)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 06 Apr 16 - 11:47 AM

And now I've hit two other snags.

1. The Internet Archive won't let me print the poem. And it and Noteworthy won't co-exist side by side. (tiled)

2. I'm a birdwatcher; I want people to observe and respect the birds. The poem refers to the linnet as green. I googled linnet, and the linnet is not one whit or by an stretch of the imagination, green.

I'm pleased to discover that the linnet must be a cousin to our "red finches," whether purple finch, house finch or Cassin's finch. They are small, tan birds with various amounts of rosy-red on them, and they are active and vociferous singers.

The species in my neighborhood is the house finch (known locally as raspberry sparrow), and when it 'sings' it sounds like it's talking.
=============
When MacManus wrote this:

"..calling, calling, calling. Why leave this happy, happy wood..."

I think he was trying to imitate birdsong in poetry, and he wanted a melody (if any) to imitate birdsong, too.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 06 Apr 16 - 11:24 AM

Guest, the song is almost ready to post. I'm pleased to hear you are interested. I have one job left to do - to put in the place names from the poetry book you found online. It should be done later today.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: Thompson
Date: 06 Apr 16 - 08:44 AM

Sillies might? possibly? be sallies, since they're associated with groves and streams - willows, sáile in Irish, cognate with salicylic. In a Northern Irish accent, silly would sound like sally.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: GUEST,John Moulden
Date: 06 Apr 16 - 08:31 AM

There is a version, with notation, in Hidden Fermanagh: Traditional Music and Song from County Fermanagh by Cyril Maguire (with transcriptions by Sharon Creasey)
Fermanagh Traditional Music Society ISBN 0 9546200 0 3
It's little different from other versions.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: GUEST,John Moulden
Date: 06 Apr 16 - 08:04 AM

Now we're faced with a pretty conundrum: did Séamus MacManus write the song or adapt it from a traditional version; or did traditional singers adapt, as they will, Séamus MacManus. The placenames in the version posted by Mary Conway are right for the area - Sillies is more usually given as Sillees; the river rises in Belmore Forest, flows past Boho and through the Moss Lough, there joining another tributary that goes through Derrygonnelly and, circuitously, joining the Erne at Enniskillen. The puzzle for me is in MacManus' using the spelling Boe. Phonetic? or is it a way of avoiding all but initiates giving Boho two syllables.

OK - I'll print the two versions and compare them with all the care known to man and look up all the places given by S MacM - are they all real or are some imagined? Watch this, or rather, later spaces.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: GUEST,#
Date: 05 Apr 16 - 12:19 PM

leeneia, will you post the tune maybe as a midi? I'd love to hear it.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 05 Apr 16 - 10:03 AM

Nonsense. You've done splendidly. The pages do indeed turn with a left click. I don't have to worry about Sillie anymore; the original has "Murlo's purling stream."

Neither Knockmore nor Belmore is there. The places are Strathgar and Glenvar. I wonder if they exist.

I've written a tune.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: GUEST,#
Date: 04 Apr 16 - 06:32 AM

Crap. The book is a third edition. My apologies. If a moderator would be kind enough, please combine the three posts of mine into one. I haven't had coffee yet and the day is very young. In fact I'm still scratchin' me arse and tryin' to find a third way to cross my legs.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: GUEST,#
Date: 04 Apr 16 - 06:23 AM

For those unaware, left click on the pages of the 'book' to turn them. If you already knew that, sorry; if you didn't, there ya go.

BTW, the title of the poem is 'The Little Linnet of Boe.'


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: GUEST,#
Date: 04 Apr 16 - 06:17 AM

Those looking for the lyrics can find them on pages 5 and 6 at

https://archive.org/details/balladsacountry00macmgoog

It is from 'Ballads of a Country-boy' by Seumas MacManus published in 1905.


The word in question in an earlier post is Boe.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Apr 16 - 04:44 AM

I see you are right about the pronunciation.
Sorry. The person I stayed with must have got it wrong.
Knockmore is not a corruption. As someone said above it is a very prominent crag. I scattered my uncle's ashes up there.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 03 Apr 16 - 10:36 PM

Thanks for the tip, Guest. That sounds much better.

It's fun to look up Boho on Google maps. The names in the first few lines of the song are:

Sillie
Boho
Monea
Stratore
Carngreen
knockmore

You can find Boho and Monea on the map a few miles west of Enniskillen. To the south is Belmore, and I think 'Knockmore' is a corruption of that.

Does anybody know anything about Carngreen and Stratore?

Now, to go back to the first line of the song -

"when I was young my life was spent by sillies groves and streams."

I thought that might be "Scilly", but the Scilly Isles are far away, some in Cornwall and some in Surrey. There are two features on the map of Boho that have isles and streams, namely Lough Erne and Lough Macnean, but they don't scan. Unless Erne is pronounced Air-neh. But it's hard to understand how Erne could be corrupted to Sillie.

Any ideas?

I also looked up images of Boho and verified that there are trees in the vicinity.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Apr 16 - 11:13 AM

Yes


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Apr 16 - 11:58 AM

Really?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 16 - 09:55 AM

Boho is I think prononced the same as "Bo" or "Beau", not as Bo-Ho".


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 16 - 06:20 AM

Interesting that Linnets are mentioned in the song. There is a Linnet Inn ("McKenzie's") at Boho. I spent some unscheduled time there one day in May 2014 when my car broke down (the staff were very helpful and eventually I managed to find a mechanic who towed the car home although I had to stay at my cousins house that night).

There are caves in the nearby limestone, though these are not open to the public; it is about 10 miles from the better-known Marble Arch Caves, which are open to the public.

Knockmore mentioned above is a large conspicuous cliff-walled limestone hill (over 900 feet high), visible for miles around. A few miles to the south, and not far from Boho, is "Noons Hole", apparently the deepest pot hole in Ireland (not open to the public and only experienced pot holers/cavers should enter it, preferably with others). I know nothing about caving but know that they can be dangerous as the water level can rise suddenly without warning (since you are below ground, you won't know if there has been a downpour above ground until it is too late). Some years ago, the brother of a young woman who I knew slightly was drowned when he was caught in a cave above Marble Arch following a flash flood. Sadly, they were never able to retrieve his body (though I believe there was a service at the mouth of the cave).


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: GUEST,mary conway
Date: 04 Mar 16 - 06:30 AM

i used to sing this when i was younger at family dos and weddings as my mum taught me it


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Groves of Boho
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Sep 14 - 10:46 AM

I know many of the places and it is a lovely part.
The caves there are amazing too.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
Next Page

  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 21 October 1:49 PM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.