plumbing in the bodhran for gigs?

Subject: plumbing in the bodhran for gigs?
From: GUEST,Ella at work on the machine round the corner
Date: 27 Jun 00 - 10:37 AM

Hello

I am in exile as my normal work puter won't let me mudcat, so I am round the corner.

What I would like some advice on is the following please...

When I am doing a gig, I mic up my bodhran with just a microphone on a stand. But I know that this is not really brilliant. As it doesn't get all the affects I can do with my Bodhran. (it won't pick up the high notes, and you can't always get all the tones that I make coming through the standard mics.

So I am thinking about getting a pickup (not the truck) one of those natty little Microvox style microphones with the swan necks that you velcro on to things. (would also free up a mic and stand then, and I could sing and play too a little more free to move around.)

Can anyone tell me how they get on with these things and are they any good. Plus any other systems that they would recommend?

Would appreciate your comments so I can determine which system would be better for plumbing my bodhran in.

I am getting a bit frustrated of trying to expect wonders out of one mic - and it not picking up all my hard work?

So... what do you reckon?

Ella

Subject: RE: Help: plumbing in the bodhran for gigs?
From: alison
Date: 27 Jun 00 - 10:43 AM

I use an inexpensive tie clip mic.. which clips onto one of the tuning screws (tuneable bodhran).. works really well... before that I just used my vocal mic.. but now I can sing and play at the same time....

it's not perfect.. but it is pretty good....

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Help: plumbing in the bodhran for gigs?
From: Clinton Hammond2
Date: 27 Jun 00 - 11:01 AM

Mic placement is the most important thing I've found... I also use a Tie-clip mic... I dropped about 50 bucks or so on it at Radio Shack... Battery driven, on-off switch, miles and miles of cord...

The miles and miles of cord I bundled up and Ty-wrapped into the drum on the cross pieces.. The Mic itself I attached to a cross piece about half way along the radius... Right at about the spot where I tend to do most of my playing... Too close to the edge (A DAMN fine song!) and the rim-shots distort... Too close to the middle and the tone is muffles and the mic is in danger of being hit by my left hand...

But like everything else bodhran-y, it's a matter of personal preferance... There is no WRONG or RIGHT way...

Good Luck!
{~`

Subject: RE: Help: plumbing in the bodhran for gigs?
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 27 Jun 00 - 12:43 PM

Wow, some of your gigs must be in VERY big halls! seriously tho' I haven't tried a tie-clip I suspect you might get tangled in the lead, but I sometimes use a small stand mike for large ceilidhs. this is a small cardioid that I place as near as possible to the back of the bodhran in the bottom quadrant furthest from me (If that makes any sense.) you have to sit fairly still though. I guess whatever works for you is good

Subject: RE: Help: plumbing in the bodhran for gigs?
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 27 Jun 00 - 05:36 PM

(Ella at home after her bike ride nursing a dozen mosquito bikes - scratch and read)

Keep the ideas coming - has anyone tried the microvox system?

A wandering minstrel - what you discribe is what I do at the moment, but as I like to move a little on the stage it is getting more and more annoying. Some of the halls are big ones that we do the gigs in.

The tie clip thing sounds good, and would probably work on my tuneable.

Any more suggestions

scratch itch scratch?

(plus any ideas where I can get industrial size cans of DEET spray, or a mosquito net for my bike - arghhhhhhh scratch)

Ella

;-)

Subject: RE: Help: plumbing in the bodhran for gigs?
From: GUEST,Rich(stupidbodhranplayerwhodoesn'tknowbetter
Date: 27 Jun 00 - 09:50 PM

I use an AKG on a boom stand. The problem with a mic that moves with the drum, is that you can't move closer or farther from the mic. I find I get ample pickup and range of sound. I sit while playing, so moving around is not much of an issue. My bodhran doesn't have crosspieces (Thank God!), and I retune often, so attaching a clip-on seems like a lot of hassle for no gain. If your mic isn't doing it for you, I'd get a better mic. With a boom you can put it in to the "sweet spot" (a wee bit below dead center, about 3 inches from the skin, allowing enough room for your hand to move around the inside of the drum. I read somewhere that Johnny McDonagh used a mic in back like that and also one about a foot away from the outside of th skin to allow enough area for his tipper-hand to move freely, but I don't have quite the clout he does, and would be hard put to ask for 2 channels for my drum! Cathy Jordan (of Dervish) uses both a clip-on and a boom mic in concert.
At any rate, My setup works well for me. I hope you find a system that works for you.
Slan agat,
Rich

Subject: RE: Help: plumbing in the bodhran for gigs?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Jun 00 - 06:40 AM

I was at a concert with a great bodhran player and his band. But he'd got his drum so amplified you couldn't hear the rest of the instruments except as a kind of musical heckling in the background. So I went to the pub instead, and gave my ticket to a friend. By the time I'd finished a pint or so, he was over to join me, also unable to take it.

And, as I said, that was great bodhran player. So don't overdo it.

Subject: RE: Help: plumbing in the bodhran for gigs?
From: Nicole Leonard
Date: 28 Jun 00 - 08:16 AM

We have tried the little clip-on mics too but found the sound mainly a boomy thud. The best sound we have got so far is using a SM57 attached to the drum by mic clip which attaches to the frame of the drum using a screw on thing and then the mic clip itself (which is just a standard mic clip) can be angled to position the mic closer or further away, and pointing towards the center or rim, etc. We attach it at the bottom of the drum so it does not usually get in the way. I guess it would depend on your style of playing whether this system would be awkward for you, as it is not as convenient as the little mics, but it has worked well for us.

Subject: RE: Help: plumbing in the bodhran for gigs?
From: AndyG
Date: 28 Jun 00 - 08:41 AM

Most of the players I've seen, (in venues big enough to require any PA), have miked the drum front and back. Mike on a stand on the skin side to pick up the crisp, high-end sound of the beater, and another mike (either micro or stand) to pick up the effects of their flat hand work. The only players I've seen using only one mike have not used very much of a flat-hand style.

AndyG

Subject: RE: Help: plumbing in the bodhran for gigs?
From: JedMarum
Date: 28 Jun 00 - 09:04 AM

There are many good mics used for other drums that are on the market. You might consider making trips to several local music stores (where they sell drums) and speaking to the sales guys. You'll learn some good tips from the good ones, about what mics might be good choices. In our band, Eammon uses a Senhauser 835S, on a stand. As Rich said above, with a mic on the stand, you have the ability to move away or onto the mic, thereby increasing your dynamic range. BY the way, you may find the fault is not so much the mic as the rest of the acoustic environment; ie the EQ capabilities of the mixer, the 'strength' of the signal (the input gain), mic placement, proximity to speakers (house and/or monitors) etc. I find that all of these things conspire to reproduce good bodhran sound (or not).

One tip you may find worth investigating with the mic you have; be sure that you are getting the optimum input gain setting for your bodhran. This will give you the best dynamic range, and the strongest clean> signal possible for EQ at the mixer. Many mixers have an LED dedicated for optimizing the input gain. Be sure you play your ablsolute loudest when setting it up. Once set, you will be able to adjust the tone controls to get the best EQ. If you move the tone much, be sure to recheck your input gain. You'd be surprised how much quality you can gain by refining these settings.

Subject: RE: Help: plumbing in the bodhran for gigs?
From: GeorgeH
Date: 28 Jun 00 - 09:34 AM

John Jo Kelly (see http://www.flook.co.uk) uses a mic inside his bodhran from preference - because he then doesn't have to worry about instrument positioning relative to the mic. Certainly the one time we heard him without this (hadn't had time to fit the mic to his new instrument) his performance didn't have quite its usual "fluidity".

I don't think JJ uses a Microvox, but my family have used various of them for concertina, fiddles, high- and low- whistles and oboe, and would thoroughly recommend them - and would also commend the company for good, fair advice. (They happily swapped one of the mics we'd bought when we concluded a different model would work better for our application.)

G.

Subject: RE: Help: plumbing in the bodhran for gigs?
From: GUEST,Ella round the corner at work
Date: 28 Jun 00 - 09:47 AM

Hi guys

Some good info there - anymore appreciated too...

McGrath of course I am always aware of the mix of my drum in comparison to the other instrumenst and frequenlty signal to the man who knows to turn me down more...

(I have been playing for a while now)

Cheers everyone..

Will go to the person in the group who holds the purse strings and beg poverty or at least to come with me on some window shopping...

Ella

(not so itchY)

Subject: RE: Help: plumbing in the bodhran for gigs?
From: JedMarum
Date: 28 Jun 00 - 09:52 AM

window shopping is a great way to learn. The salesmen (even the sharks) will tell you lots of stuff about mics, and PAs etc. Take it all with a grain of salt, review their thoughts in your head as the days go by, and take what you can from it. Some info will be good, other is just sales talk. As you compare 'words of wisdom' from salesman to salesman, you'll begin to sort out what makes sense.

good luck ...

Subject: RE: Help: plumbing in the bodhran for gigs?
From: alison
Date: 28 Jun 00 - 10:18 PM

If I am actually recording rather than playing.. you get a great sound with a good Shure instrument mic behind the skin.. picks up the hand work and the "notes" from the skin..... I aim it just off centre in the far top quadrant of the drum....

the tie clip gives ease of movement on stage....

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Help: plumbing in the bodhran for gigs?
From: GUEST,Banjo Johnny
Date: 28 Jun 00 - 10:35 PM

Hi - I would just like to know the right way (the Irish way?) to pronounce Bodhran. Thanks for your help!

Subject: RE: Help: plumbing in the bodhran for gigs?
From: barrygeo
Date: 29 Jun 00 - 08:06 AM

Bodhran

Bow ron (bow as in bow wow, not as in bow and arrow)

Bodhran Joke; Whats the difference between a bodhran player and a foot massage???????

Answer: The foot massage bucks up your feet!!!!

Subject: RE: Help: plumbing in the bodhran for gigs?
From: alison
Date: 29 Jun 00 - 08:50 AM

different ways

Bow-ron (bow as in bow wow) is the way you say it if you are from Southern Ireland

bow-ron (bow as in bow and arrow) - if like me you are from Northern Ireland.

bore-ann, is the Scottish way

basically the rule is DO NOT pronounce the "d"

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Help: plumbing in the bodhran for gigs?
From: JedMarum
Date: 29 Jun 00 - 09:05 AM

According to the Bodrhan Page at Ceolas.org, "The modern Irish word bodhrán is properly pronounced bow-rawn, like Cow brawn, with a slight emphasis on the first syllable." It goes on further to explain, as alison has above, there are variations of this pronounciation.

Subject: RE: Help: plumbing in the bodhran for gigs?
From: JedMarum
Date: 29 Jun 00 - 09:07 AM

and I meant to put my own comments in, above; bow as in 'take a ...' and ron as in reagan.

Subject: RE: Help: plumbing in the bodhran for gigs?
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 29 Jun 00 - 10:00 AM

a fragment for McGrath:...

Just when you think it can't get any louder Cometh the hour and cometh the man Enter stage left to join with our band comes The man with the pigskin - Black Sabbath Bodhran!

Give me a bad bodhran against a good banjo player anyday!

Subject: RE: Help: plumbing in the bodhran for gigs?
From: GUEST,Banjo Johnny
Date: 30 Jun 00 - 03:43 AM

Thanks everybody! for help on pronunciation ... Bodhran vs. Banjo, no comparison. Don't know how banjos got into Irish music anyway. == Johnny in Oklahoma

Subject: RE: Help: plumbing in the bodhran for gigs?
From: GUEST,skarpi at work
Date: 30 Jun 00 - 04:01 AM

Hallo all , I saw that you are talking about Bodhrán I play one and I mic it up with Mic and it is okei I did that last weekend at festival I played on .Keep on playing the Bodhrán. All the best skarpi Iceland.

Subject: RE: Help: plumbing in the bodhran for gigs?
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 30 Jun 00 - 05:22 AM

Thanks guys

Hey look my puter is working again.

Will go an try out some of the suggestions.

Have been having a rest this week from playing, I am gigged right out, and have a lovely bruise on my left arm from playing far too much bodhran every night. In sessions and gigs.

I can always tell when I have been going mad.... I do a lovely range of bruises and friction burns on my hands.

ha haa I suffer for my art. (laughing)

Thanks for all your help.

Will spend some time before I go out and buy anything else seeing if I can sort it out on the eq system first.

Cheers

Ella

PS - had someone come up and ask me why my bodhran didn't have bells on the other night - if it wasn't so expensive I would have made him wear it...

Have a good weekend everyone.

ta ta ton toc

Subject: RE: Help: plumbing in the bodhran for gigs?
From: Mooh
Date: 30 Jun 00 - 06:04 AM

No drummer here, but if I may...The reason I sometimes run both an internal guitar mic and a boom mounted mic is so I can have both a constant threshold signal from the internal so the guitar never disappears from the mix, and the colour, dynamics and spatial effect available from the boom mic and combination of both. Doesn't the same hold true for drums?

Peace, Mooh.