Another Public Apology

Subject: Another Public Apology
From: Grey Wolf
Date: 29 Jun 00 - 03:26 PM

If people are in the apology mode - I'll confess that it was me who caused the 'guest' prefix to be invoked.

I've used a number of aliases during my time at mudcat, and I've spent most of the time offering good advice. Occasionally I get frustrated, and post overtly provocative threads - the 'americans are fat' was me too.

I'm using a different name now, and I often still answer 'guest' requests that no-one else does, and spend a good deal of time on search engines picking out obscure information for people that I don't know.

Judge me as you will

Wolf

and please stop blaming the semi-mythical gargoyle for everything

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: Jed at Work
Date: 29 Jun 00 - 03:34 PM

surprising comments, thanks. I didn't like the fat americans comments, but didn't mind the debate!

I appreciate your candor.

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: wysiwyg
Date: 29 Jun 00 - 03:47 PM

Well.... I don't know about any of that, I can only go by this one thread, but you sound OK to me!

Do you have any plans for how you might handle frustration differently in the future, BTW?

~Susan

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: Peter T.
Date: 29 Jun 00 - 03:47 PM

I don't see anything that amounts to an apology for anything, which is typical. You probably still think it was all great fun and did no harm.

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 29 Jun 00 - 03:56 PM

Well Grey Wolf I truly thought 'why are americans fat' turned out to be a very interesting thread.

But now that we are on a roll of apologies, I would like to take this time to personally apologize for being out of tune during my first song circle, and at the past two Mudcat gatherings I attended.
Please forgive me.

Bonnie

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: Bert
Date: 29 Jun 00 - 04:01 PM

But you're pretty Banjo Bonnie so we'll forgive YOU.

As for that Grey Wolf fella, he's UGLY, so I'm not so sure;-)

Bert. (Don't do it again!)

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: Mrrzy
Date: 29 Jun 00 - 04:46 PM

A confession is, I agree with Peter T., not the same thing as an apology, but I see a lot that amounts to apologies, even it not including the words I'm Sorry. I took the opening line to be an apology to the infrastructuralists who had to do the work of getting Guest to affix in the first place, to the members whose names were taken in vain, and even to anyone who got all upset by having their expectations (of what known members might write) violated. And saying I'm going to apologize and then saying Occasionally I get frustrated, and post overtly provocative threads really is tantamount to saying I'm sorry I have shown frustration by being provoking, but maybe I just had a better day. At least Grey Wolf didn't say the incredibly annoying I'm sorry you all got so upset!

And anyone who spells Gray Grey is OK with me, it's such a prettier color that way. Or should that be colour?

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: MudGuard
Date: 29 Jun 00 - 04:59 PM

Is grey/gray a colour/color or not? Black is the absence of all colors while white is the presence of all colors. So grey is in between presence and absence of all colors. So it depends on the brightness/darkness of the grey whether it is more absence or more presence of all colors...
I think it is better I go to bed now before I write more nonsence eeh nonsense about colors ...
MudGuard

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: SINSULL
Date: 29 Jun 00 - 05:02 PM

Mudguard,
I am genuinely sorry that you feel that way. Wishing you a rainbow. SS

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: Big Mick
Date: 29 Jun 00 - 05:05 PM

Not needed. I just ignore what I dislike. Likewise if it has no value to me. I don't care about prefixes or anything else. Just post. I can usually tell from the title if I will find value, and if there is one I don't care about, I just ignore it. Glad you're here.

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Jun 00 - 05:15 PM

Confession...contrition...and a firm purpose of amendment.

That's how the old catechism put it, and it sums up this kind of thing pretty well. The last being the most important.

For someone with real problems about all this, the Austrlaian Prime Minister takes some beating I believe. He's maybe going to get it too, it sounds like.

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: SDShad
Date: 29 Jun 00 - 05:16 PM

And as long as we're doing public confession here, which they say is good for the soul, I must admit here and now:

I put the bomp in the bomp bah bomp bah bomp.

I did not, however, put the ram in the rama lama ding dong. They may do that sort of thing in Wyoming, but a boy's got to have standards.

I feel so much better now,

Shad

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: harpgirl
Date: 29 Jun 00 - 05:44 PM

...ah Grey Wolf....you seldom drop the ball and anyway gargoyle probably won't return....

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: Grey Wolf
Date: 29 Jun 00 - 06:38 PM

harpgirl,

perhaps I am gargoyle - perhaps I'm the nemesis of mudcat...

i'm not. i'm just trying to say sorry. perhaps the fact that in this environment, we can so easily misunderstand each other is the reason for this thread. (this is not an excuse, yet some of you will post as though I mean't it to be)

wolf

Wolf

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Jun 00 - 06:54 PM

anyway gargoyle probably won't return....

Oh no! You know what happens in the movies when someone says something like that.

No Wolfie, you'd never make an Australian Prime Minister. When the history of Mudcat is written you'll have a chapter.

Interestingly enough "apology" originally just about means more or less explanation or even. But I reckon this one's from the heart. Otherwise why'd it ever have come to light. And I like it when mysteries get solved, and the truth unveiled.

should we perhaps set up a Mudcat People's Court? Or a Truth and Reconciliation Commission.

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: bob jr
Date: 29 Jun 00 - 07:12 PM

um i have been to america alot of times and they have more than their share of fat people um who do i apologize too for that?

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: bbelle
Date: 29 Jun 00 - 07:48 PM

I think the whole premise of this thread is very odd. A person who posts/flames under difference pseudonyms is still doing it and is apologizing. I think there's an oxymoron in there somewhere. "Seldom" have I viewed someone who is as confused as this person appears to be. Doesn't it bother you people that this person has an axe to grind, has used various aliases (including probably some of your own nicknames), and is still doing it? Sometimes I just sit back and scratch my chin at the wonder of it all.

moonchild (who would, at times, love to post anonymously but just cannot bring herself to do it)

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 29 Jun 00 - 07:56 PM

ACtually I'm not going to apologize. I am going to say to Praise. Don't take the weight of all of Christianity's mistakes on your shoulders. We all have enough to do to keep up with our own foibles. Jesus said " Let the dead tend to the dead" He wasn't just talking about death. I believe he was talking about collective guilt also. And Grey Wolf Your penance is to howl at the moon and vow never again to do such misdeeds except maybe to the flamers out there on other forums! Reguards, Neil

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Jun 00 - 07:57 PM

Amen to that, Jenny. I've read all of the posts attributed to Grey Wolf, who did start posting about two days after Max started the GUEST prefix. Nice posts, some of which I responded to personally.

Now, I am to believe this is the same person who used my name and posted crap in January and who knows what else under what names? Something doesn't sound right, unless this is an attempt to stir things up, again.

cynicalolekat

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: harpgirl
Date: 29 Jun 00 - 07:59 PM

...so tell us all your aliases, grey wolf...and your real name!

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: bbelle
Date: 29 Jun 00 - 08:13 PM

Yes, grey wolf ... if you are so contrite, then fess up as to who you are ... and let the games begin!

moonchild

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: little john cameron
Date: 29 Jun 00 - 08:50 PM

Lads an' lassies,whit a pile o' rubbish.Ye shouldnae be playin' gemmes wi' people heids an gettin' folk aw' riled up.So "Grey Wolf" or "Archie Bellamy" whitever, ye need help.Ah'll gie ye mah psychiatrists number if ye like. LJC

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 29 Jun 00 - 08:51 PM

And they say confession is good for the soul. BUt who did put the ram in the rama-lama-ding-dong? Neil

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: Mbo
Date: 29 Jun 00 - 08:57 PM

If you like confessions, check out this classic thread!

--Mbo

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: Helen
Date: 29 Jun 00 - 09:29 PM

I've said it before and I'll probably say it again. I miss gargoyle, and I think it was a despicable thing to do to use his name, either overtly or by implication, and to stir up a hornet's nest around him which he didn't deserve.

Helen

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: harpgirl
Date: 29 Jun 00 - 09:34 PM

...actually what I meant to say was "the gargoyle impersonators" might be back but the real gargoyle is still amongst us! and a fascinating person I might wager!

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: MudGuard
Date: 30 Jun 00 - 04:35 AM

Sinsull, thanks for the rainbow. It was a nice surprise this morning after the (for me) bad day yesterday!
MudGuard

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: Scabby Douglas
Date: 30 Jun 00 - 05:11 AM

Confession is good for the soul(so they say) Dark thoughts and deeds can be washed clean away Life is so short, and the night so long Raise up your glass, and sing up the song

We're all only human, mistakes can be made And at everyone's door, some blame can be laid Be glad for the right to forgive what is wrong Raise up your glass and sing up the song.

Cheers...

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: Scabby Douglas
Date: 30 Jun 00 - 05:25 AM

forgot to do the line breaky things....

Confession is good for the soul(so they say)
Dark thoughts and deeds can be washed clean away
Life is so short, and the night so long
Raise up your glass, and sing up the song

We're all only human, mistakes can be made
And at everyone's door, some blame can be laid
Be glad for the right to forgive what is wrong
Raise up your glass and sing up the song.

Cheers...

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: Yo
Date: 30 Jun 00 - 05:44 AM

Seems to me these strange and non-musical threads draw the most attention!? So, couldn't be that bad no?? Yo.

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: Wolfgang
Date: 30 Jun 00 - 06:53 AM

Wolf, from my point of view there's no need to give us your real name, but to stop what you've done from now on, and to set the record straight by telling us much more than just one alias.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: harpgirl
Date: 30 Jun 00 - 09:55 AM

...and I apologize for being too nosy and for getting weird about all the people with aliases on the cat. I need to get a life!!! and for being bitchy. I am going to be nice all the time from now on. (Not) Here that MBO????

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: Mbo
Date: 30 Jun 00 - 10:03 AM

Hear what?

--Mbo

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: Bert
Date: 30 Jun 00 - 10:12 AM

harpgirl, you ARE nice all the time!

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 30 Jun 00 - 10:30 AM

I must admit that I fail to see what good has been done by this confession. I think it would have been better for Grey Wolf simply to have resolved not to do it again and from then on simply to have continued to post under his one chosen handle as there is a danger that a cofession on this subject will restart the "whos posting as who" paranoia that we have experienced before.

Jon

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: SDShad
Date: 30 Jun 00 - 11:13 AM

Sarge, I'm not sure, but I think maybe it was Mbo who put the ram in the rama lama ding dong.

Either that, or he shot the deputy. I can't keep 'em all straight.

Shad

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: Mbo
Date: 30 Jun 00 - 11:22 AM

I feel love!

--Mbo

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: Big Mick
Date: 30 Jun 00 - 11:58 AM

I must admit that I find this thread and the original "Apology" thread to be a bit weird, and yet a fascinating view of the human psyche. I was not going to post, just lurk & learn, but I feel that I must respond to posts by Helen and my buddy, the Harpgirl. I was the original person who suggested that we not respond to Garg and that he would dry up and blow away. But, and this is an important but, it only came after he had crossed some very significant roads with regard to sensitivity. If you check back all the way, you will find that on a number of occasions I asked him, even implored him to return to his much needed role as resident curmudgeon on the Mudcat. He was brilliant and much needed in that role. He is also a wonderful resource with regard to the music which is the foundation of the house we have built here. Greg if you are still here, that is the role that I enjoyed and would love for you to fill again. I miss that and miss you on that level. But if it includes the viciousness, the attacks on others sense of self worth, and the general nastiness, then stay where you are.

Big Mick

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: harpgirl
Date: 30 Jun 00 - 12:07 PM

...why assume GG is gargoyle or Greg is really Greg or that only one person is gargyole....oh boy I think Jon is right! Get a life Abby, get back to work! your boss, harpgirl

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: GUEST,Mrr
Date: 30 Jun 00 - 01:02 PM

Mbo, the thread to which your blicky pointed reminds me of the old joke, If Mama Cass had given Karen Carpenter her ham sandwich they'd both be alive today! Which reminds me of another joke: If Grace Kelly were alive today, what would she be doing? Clawing at the inside of her coffin!

Sorry.

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: Grey Wolf
Date: 30 Jun 00 - 02:09 PM

apologies - didn't think that an apology would have this effect - the apology was honest - i'm going to post as someone else now - just don't want any rubbish

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Jun 00 - 02:13 PM

And, so what is new?

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 30 Jun 00 - 02:42 PM

Grey Wolf, or whoever you are right now--I am surprised that you didn't know what kind of response your confession would get--people were very upset at the time, there was much bad feeling, and much paranoia. People left the group, many people---now, I doubt that you were responsible for all the mischief, but you are the only one who has come forward (or at least as forward as a nickname can come)--if anything, I am surprised at how restrained people have been--

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: bbelle
Date: 30 Jun 00 - 03:57 PM

I don't think "restrained" is the word I would use, M Ted. I think "who gives a flying fuck" would be more appropriate for how I feel about this "Grey Wolf's" apology. If this person has, indeed, used a number of aliases, and has used them to the detriment of others, apologizing under yet still another alias is like blowing smoke in the wind ... it doesn't go anywhere!

And, lest anyone tell me I am being uncharitable, I have every right to state my educated opinion and feelings about this. If you don't know what I'm talking about, well, I'm not going to rehash it. I will say, however, that should I ever discover who used MY name to flame others, whether it be a manifestation of this Grey Wolf or someone else, I will nail them. I'm not at all a physically violent individual, so if anyone wonders what I mean by "nail them," I will "out" them on this forum so fast they won't know what hit them.

moonchild

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: GUEST,Mrr
Date: 30 Jun 00 - 04:06 PM

Moonchild, you are upset, and rightly so. Also, you are being uncharitable. But there's nothing wrong with that if that is how you feel! Of course you have every right to state your opinion, but are you sure you have the right to do it however you like? Even meanly, nastily, and with threats? Well, the obvious answer is Yes. The question isn't, or shouldn't be, about Rights, but rather about Responsibilities. If you are trying to foment violence, you're doing well. If you were just trying to express your opinion, well, you did that too... And since you were a vic, which I wasn't, you have more sympathy on your side than you think!

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: banjobenny
Date: 30 Jun 00 - 04:13 PM

Wasn't around to see what/who caused all this pain and resentment among otherwise seemingly GREAT people(at least those i have met in the song circle). I am glad for not being around at that time. This entire thread inspires me to write a song for solo clawhammer banjo. It will be done in "mountain minor" (Am) tuning, so as to express some of the pain and a little of the resentment, and also to capture some of the apologetic feelings. The song will be titled "Who Really Cares Anyway". It will be a three part theme as opposed to the standard two part scheme. It should evoke feelings of deep reflection and objectivity. Let it disconnect us from actual events, and reveal to us how the wind blows in some mighty strange things from time to time. Your friend, Banjobenny

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Jun 00 - 04:18 PM

BBenny, that is the BEST offer I've seen in quite awhile! Play it for us on Sunday???

I totally understand where Moonchild is coming from, having had my name used for nefarious purposes, too. However, going along those lines any further, in this thread, seems to me to be another open door for arseholes to flame as they will....me thinks we've just been baited, again...to echo Mick's previous advice, let's stop and not rise to the occasion.

Thanks,

katwhoreallydoesn'twanttoseeareprisestartedup

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 30 Jun 00 - 04:29 PM

BanjoBenny, I am relatively new (I guess about a year) but I did see those times. I had started by participating in newsgroups prior to joining Mudcat and even at its worse, Mudcat seemed a pretty pleasant place although, in fairness, I was never a victim of any of the nastiness in here.

Having said that, I am truely sorry that some people felt it neccessary to leave and that some people including Moonchild did suffer because of the actions of others. Overall, Mudcat had seemed to be going through a healing period in terms of our relationships with others and it is a shame that this thread has re-opened old wounds. My feeling is this thread is best left to die.

Jon

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 30 Jun 00 - 04:30 PM

Moonchild, I was sort of thinking that Grey Wolf was surprised by the negative reaction--the restraint that I was seeing was that people weren't demanding blood--

Subject: RE: Another Public Apology
From: bbelle
Date: 30 Jun 00 - 05:11 PM

Well, guest Mrr ... hmmmmmm! You have called me. "uncharitable," "mean, nasty, & threatening," "irresponsible," "violent," and "victim," all without ever having met me. I find that very interesting.

A "victim" I'm not ... I vowed many years to not be a victim and to take care of myself, which I do.

"Uncharitable, mean, nasty, threatening, irresponsible" ... if you are referring to my vow to "out" the individual who assumed my identity, if I ever find out who did it ... so be it. Assuming another's identity is, in fact, a criminal act. Probably not punishable by much ... but the potential for harm to my reputation was there ... and I won't sweep it under the rug.

But, since you so quick to condemn, where is your responsibility to me, a person you've never met?

moonchild