Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughter'

Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughte
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 03:03 AM

Thanks, everyone. It sounds like the jury's still out on the meaning, since it looks like there are different theories abut it. Sean - thanks for responding. I should have known I first heard of the symbolic conext of it on the Mudcat. I'm interested in exploring your explanation more. It sounds like the most plausible to me, based on what I know of chanteys in general. Karolina - I welcome and value your input here. I hear that Poland is a great place to hear chanteys, and that there is a HUGE chantey festival there. Maybe you could start a thread on the festival when the date draws nearer? I think there'd be alot of interest among mudcatters. Kendall - chanteys being a form of free expression for merchant seamen has only one taboo - they generally couldn't sing verses openingly critical of the master within earshot of him or the mates. It had to be couched in symbolism, or sung aloft in a "bunting" chantey (an example being Paddy Doyle's boots - "The dirty old man's on the poop!") Lots of complaints about general conditions aboard ships in those songs, though. Thanks again, all.

Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughte
From: GUEST,Karolina
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 02:14 AM

Flattop,

I think that what I'm really interested in is a bit of craic, how the Irish call it, and that more - less means a nice, enjoyable chat. I never claimed to be an expert in any field and the fact I'm Polish doesn't mean I know everything about my country. As far as literature goes, you are far more knowledgeable than me and I'm afraid I won't be able to keep up with you.

Don't feel discouraged, though. Wish you good night!

Ah, one more thing, perhaps - let's leave this thread, as it was established for quite another purpose!!!

Barry Finn, I've learned many interesting things from you, thanks!!!

Karolina

Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughte
From: flattop
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 01:37 AM

It may be early in Poland but it's late in canada, so, I'm off to dreamland.

Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughte
From: flattop
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 01:25 AM

I don't think I quite called you a liar, Karolina, but your willingness to discuss Polish matters seems weaker than you interest in American matters. Perhaps you're more familiar with the writings of Leslie Feidler (sp) who was with the State University of New York, in Buffalo. He didn't write about boats but he did stir up a storm when he wrote an essay, 'Ah Come on Back onto the Raft Huck Honey,' where Feidler accused Hick Finn of being a homosexual. Feidler also wrote a strange book called Freaks, where he asked, 'Are you one of the normals?' Good question, eh?

Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughte
From: GUEST,Karolina
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 01:13 AM

Again, I don't know why should I need a map of Poland? Hmm...

As for Gombrowicz, I've read Ferdydurke some time ago, while being on my secondary school, I don't think I've enjoyed it, really.

If you want to prove that you know Polish literature better than me, that's allright, you win, I'm ready to give up straightaway.

Pleased?

Karolina

Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughte
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 01:08 AM

Flattop,

I'm not quite sure whether I got the sense of your message. Was it full of irony or maybe it's just too early in the morn for me to get things right, ugh? Don't forget I'm in a different time zone, it's 6:59 a.m. here now!

Look now, whenever I place this sign :) at the end of my message it means that I don't really mean it to be serious, got it?

I'm not used to lying to anyone, neither for joy nor for any other purpose. If you don't believe me, though, you're free to do so. I'm not going to prove my words to be true. We all make our own choices and bear responsibility for them. I've chosen to take nothing in anger.

Karolina

Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughte
From: flattop
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 12:57 AM

Very colloquial english, Karolina. Is it taking you this long to find a map of Poland. Unfortunately, Mapblast and Mapquest are no help.

Why don't we discuss Gombrowicz's novels or Mickiewicz's poems while you're waiting for maps to load? Wasn't it Mickiewicz who wrote about civilization growing on the bones of previous generations?

How about Ferdydurke? What a strange novel? I like his description of critics as like being born in 1000 narrow minds. And where he says, 'Perhaps I overestimated the seriousness of being serious, perhaps I overestimated the maturity of mature persons.' Did you like the bit where the main character is made to conform to the rules of non-conformity? And when he got the compulsion to slap the servants just because his uncle's family expected him to? Did you know that Gombrowicz married a french Canadian woman? Canadians should be proud but most of us haven't heard of old Witold Gombrowicz.

Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughte
From: flattop
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 12:30 AM

You didn't tell us what lakes you are sailing in Poland, with an internet hookup, in the middle of the night, Karolina. I suppose you are reading Jozef Baka's poems while you take advantage of those drunken sailors in the moonlight. As Lec wrote, 'When you jump for joy, beware that no one moves the ground from under your feet.' I suppose that wouldn't be your problem on a boat with drunken sailors?

Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughte
From: GUEST,Karolina
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 12:07 AM

Gee, Flattop, I liked that!

I wonder where do you know S.J.Lec from? You've managed to impress me, really!!!

All the best,

Karolina, the infamous lakesailor :)

Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughte
From: flattop
Date: 02 Jul 00 - 11:56 PM

Yes Karolina, your english is rather good for a Polish sailor who sails lakes. Sails lakes? Don't forget what Stanislaw Jerzy Lec wrote, 'They tortured him. They were searching his brain for their own thoughts.'

Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughte
From: GUEST,Karolina
Date: 02 Jul 00 - 11:46 PM

Oh, I make use of'em in many ways, Flattop.

I make them clean the board, for example. Sometimes it even works to get them cook something for you. I've even tried to send them for some more beer, but it usually doesn't work - they never come back :)

When you're sailing across Polish lakes, many strange things happen to you and on the sea it's even worse. Sometimes drunken sailors are more common than the sober ones.

Hey, Harpgirl, I didn't mean to talk nonsense at all, perhaps I should've put there the word "yachtsman" instead of "sailor", sorry! Come on, be more tolerant, English ain't my first language, you know...

Karolina

Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughte
From: GUEST,Barry Finn
Date: 02 Jul 00 - 11:43 PM

The cat had nine lashes because superstition had it that a flogging by a trinity of trinties would be more sacred. The whip consisted of a handle made of rope about 3 1/2 inches thick in circumference & about 18 inches in length. At the end are fastened 9 tails made of log line with at least 3 knots on each tail. "Flogged around the fleet", a man was lashed in a long boat & rowed to each ship in the harbor where he'd receive 6 lashes per ship as all hands witnessed. The cat was aways put in a red bag to disquise the bloodstains & when the "cat's out of the bag" the victum sometimes was made to lay over a gun & marry the gunner's daughter & if lucky & no blood was drawn the you had "goose without gravy". Sometimes if one fell asleep on watch they'd be hung in a net from the bowspirit's end & given a beer, a loaf of bread & a knife. He stayed there till he either starved to death or cut himself loose into the sea. Barry

Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughte
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 02 Jul 00 - 11:27 PM

Kissing (or fucking) the gunner's daughter consisted of being bent over a cannon in preparation for a flogging. As far as the Captain's daughter goes, I can only quote Sigmund Freud:
"...sometimes a cigar is only a cigar..."

Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughte
From: flattop
Date: 02 Jul 00 - 11:07 PM

How do you make use of them, Karolina?

Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughte
From: GUEST,Barry Finn
Date: 02 Jul 00 - 10:55 PM

Hi Jeri, I have heard the expression "putting him to sleep" as dishing out a beating. Polish female sailors, why of course, usually find a good few on Polish ships. Barry

Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughte
From: Cap't Bob
Date: 02 Jul 00 - 10:51 PM

I heard a definition similar to Jeri's. The "captain's daughter" was the "cat of nine tails". A type of club with nine whip like appendages on the end. The whip was kept in the captain's quarters ~ thus the term "captain's daughter". I suppose the nine whips on the end may have some resemblance to hair.

Cap't Bob

Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughte
From: SeanM
Date: 02 Jul 00 - 10:50 PM

Hi! I'm the one who posted about the "captain's daughter" earlier.

As it was explained to me, the 'Captain's Daughter' was a tool of discipline, usually either a lash or something similar. to "kiss the captain's daughter" (for light shipboard transgressions) was a light beating, while "put to bed with the captain's daughter" would be being beaten until the sailor passed out from the pain.

I'm willing to believe this, as I've seen a "Bosun's Daughter", which was a studded club about 2' long - apparently quite adept at subduing or killing should the need be.

For real context on "Drunken Sailor", consider that a truly drunken sailor on watch is at best useless, at worst an absolute menace to both ship and crew. In theory, it's still possible to be executed for being drunk on watch in the US Navy (didn't say it was done...just that it was in the possible punishments). I've read accounts of sailors drunk on watch being punished in truly horrific ways... Being beaten unconscious is probably one of the nicer that I've heard.

M

Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughte
From: GUEST,Barry Finn
Date: 02 Jul 00 - 10:48 PM

Hi Chanteyranger, 3 of us sang this last night at a shriner's convention & as we sang that verse the group at the table we were singing to all looked at this young woman & they all looked back at us & said she's the captain's daughter (she was very graceful in how she let us off the hook). I haven't yet found this verse in a collection yet (but that doesn't mean squat). I'd say that most drunk sailors were not all that perticular about who'd allow themselves to spend an hour with them never mind a night & at no cost to Jack , even slimer, the old man's daughter, not a chance unless your name was Ruben Ranzo. To slight the old man & cast doubt on his daughter's good looks, maybe. I do remember a party where the captain of a schooner's daughter (Boston 1992) danced the night away with a member of the crew of the schooner that they were tied up too, both were in their cups but I'd say they both got lucky. Barry

Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughte
From: harpgirl
Date: 02 Jul 00 - 10:46 PM

.polish, eh???? a polish sailor girl? you people believe this drivel????

Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughte
From: GUEST,Karolina
Date: 02 Jul 00 - 10:24 PM

Flattop,

Even though I'm a female sailor, I don't have anything against drunken sailors. You can still make a use of them, not necessarily in bed... :)

Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughte
From: Jeri
Date: 02 Jul 00 - 10:23 PM

I remember talking about this in Real Life recently. Think it may have something to do with the "captain's daughter" being some sort of club, and to put him to bed with it would mean to beat him senseless. Oh Barry....

Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughte
From: flattop
Date: 02 Jul 00 - 09:20 PM

This could be nastier for the captain's daughter. Why don't we care about the captain's daughter? Because her father has power? Is that reason to put a drunken sailor in bed with her?

Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughte
From: kendall
Date: 02 Jul 00 - 09:13 PM

As I understand it, in the old days of sail, it was traditional to say anything the chantyman wanted in the chanty. This was one of the only instances in which common seamen were allowed free speech.

Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughte
From: Gary T
Date: 02 Jul 00 - 08:39 PM

On some thread not too long ago there was mention that "to kiss the gunner's daughter" meant something along the lines of putting one's face up to a gun barrel. Not knowing any better myself, I always figured the captain's daughter thing was literal, which of course would be a nasty trick to play on someone who was drunk and likely to pass out there (regardless of her looks, the captain's ire being the expected result).

Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughte
From: GUEST,Karolina
Date: 02 Jul 00 - 08:39 PM

Hi, chanteyranger.

We know this shanty in Poland, too, but as far as I know, in Polish it means literally what it means...

Hope somebody will know more.

Karolina

Subject: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughter
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 02 Jul 00 - 08:16 PM

In the chantey "Drunken Sailor" there is a verse that goes "Put him in bed with the captain's daughter." I've heard add-in verses sung after that about how ugly she is, and comparing her to an Orangutan and such. However, I heard somewhere (don't remember where or who) that the original verse is symbolic; that to be "in bed with the captain's daughter" does not mean that literally, but refers to something else aboard ship. Can anyone set me straight on that? (Barry, you out there?) Thanks!

chanteyranger