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Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughter'

DigiTrad:
DRUNKEN SAILOR


Related threads:
In bed with the captain's daughter (52)
(origins) Origins: What Shall We Do With a Drunken Sailor (44)
Help: Meaning of a few Drunken Sailor verses (39)
What can you do with a drunken sailor- verse ideas (63)
A Horrible example of 'Drunken Sailor' (45)
Lyr Add: What Shall We Do with the Grumpy Pirate? (18)
P.C. version Drunken Sailor (47)
Origins: Drunken sailor .. wayhey or hif ho (17)
Folklore: What shall we do with the Drunken Sailor (4)
Lyr Add: Ebrio quid faciamus nauta (13)
Drunken Sailor song protested (91)
Chord Req: Banjo tuning for 'Drunken Sailor' in Em (9)
BS: What shall we do with the Drunken Sailor (15)
Origins: Drunken Sailor (21)
Same Tune? Drunken Sailor/Oro se do (16)
Lyr Add: Drunken Sailor parody (anti-war) (2)
Drunken Sailor...that not so old thread? (12)


Gibb Sahib 27 Aug 18 - 07:40 PM
GUEST,Jerry 27 Aug 18 - 09:49 AM
GUEST 27 Aug 18 - 04:19 AM
Lighter 25 Nov 11 - 02:11 PM
Lighter 25 Nov 11 - 01:58 PM
Paul Burke 25 Nov 11 - 01:36 PM
Uncle_DaveO 25 Nov 11 - 01:33 PM
Dead Horse 25 Nov 11 - 12:51 PM
kendall 25 Nov 11 - 12:10 PM
kendall 25 Nov 11 - 12:08 PM
Lighter 25 Nov 11 - 09:26 AM
GUEST 24 Nov 11 - 05:54 PM
alanabit 01 Jul 05 - 01:48 PM
Les from Hull 28 Jun 05 - 11:59 AM
Shanghaiceltic 28 Jun 05 - 09:41 AM
alanabit 28 Jun 05 - 09:01 AM
GUEST,tony 28 Jun 05 - 08:44 AM
Le Scaramouche 27 Jun 05 - 04:22 PM
Shanghaiceltic 30 May 04 - 07:15 PM
Peace 30 May 04 - 06:20 PM
Joe_F 29 May 04 - 06:27 PM
GUEST,Chanteyranger 29 May 04 - 02:15 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 28 May 04 - 11:53 PM
GUEST,Anne Croucher 28 May 04 - 06:28 PM
GUEST,Andrew 28 May 04 - 04:58 PM
GUEST,Chanteyranger 28 May 04 - 04:35 PM
TS 28 May 04 - 04:23 PM
GUEST,JTT 28 May 04 - 03:09 PM
Clinton Hammond 28 May 04 - 01:07 PM
GUEST,Don 28 May 04 - 11:15 AM
Leadfingers 28 May 04 - 10:47 AM
GUEST 28 May 04 - 10:24 AM
GUEST,Strudelbag 28 May 04 - 10:21 AM
Karolina 04 Jul 00 - 01:41 PM
McGrath of Harlow 04 Jul 00 - 06:41 AM
flattop 03 Jul 00 - 10:07 PM
Chanteyranger 03 Jul 00 - 09:31 PM
GUEST,Barry Finn 03 Jul 00 - 09:07 PM
flattop 03 Jul 00 - 08:28 PM
GUEST,Karolina 03 Jul 00 - 07:45 PM
flattop 03 Jul 00 - 04:33 PM
Melani 03 Jul 00 - 03:12 PM
Gary T 03 Jul 00 - 01:34 PM
radriano 03 Jul 00 - 01:25 PM
Scabby Douglas 03 Jul 00 - 08:23 AM
kendall 03 Jul 00 - 08:19 AM
Scabby Douglas 03 Jul 00 - 04:18 AM
Chanteyranger 03 Jul 00 - 03:03 AM
GUEST,Karolina 03 Jul 00 - 02:14 AM
flattop 03 Jul 00 - 01:37 AM
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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughter
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 27 Aug 18 - 07:40 PM

In another Mudcat thread a strong (I think) argument was developed that the singer Oscar Brand developed "the captain's daughter" and other hootenanny verses on his 1960 album.

Some years back I updated the Wikipedia page for this song by inserting several historical points about this song, especially distinguishing its form "as a shanty" and "as a popular song."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drunken_Sailor


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughter
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 27 Aug 18 - 09:49 AM

I think most agree it was to do with a serious flogging; all the other verses are punishments of varying severity, so it makes no sense otherwise, unless the daughter was particularly unappealing.


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughter
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Aug 18 - 04:19 AM

It's genuinely crazy to see topics and people writing on the internet from so longer ago. While I can almost guarantee I will never return to the comment I'm about to post (if it even works) and that fact that none of the original people to post will see this- it's still so fascinating to see.

Anyway, my belief of what it meant was already answered dozens of times, it's to be lashed until you're unconscious. Although you could have the direct meaning, I don't see it fitting the song as well.


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughter
From: Lighter
Date: 25 Nov 11 - 02:11 PM

BTW, nobody has produced even a claim from any shanty collector or sailor-author that "in bed with the captain's daughter" had any secret meaning at all.

It's fascinating to see people insist that what's said in plain words makes more sense as code for something else.

(Assuming that's what I mean.)

In A Study in Scarlet, Watson "keeps a bull pup." Since no dog is ever mentioned again, readers have asserted confidently that it means something else: for example, that Watson has a bad temper, or carries a gun, or something equally unexpected.

The obvious interpretation, that he owns a dog (which Conan Doyle later forgot about) is ignored.


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughter
From: Lighter
Date: 25 Nov 11 - 01:58 PM

Believe what you wish.

Anyway, the even more recent following verse, "Have you *seen* the captain's daughter?" suggests that the real daughter might be punishment enough.

If punishment is what it's all about.

Which it isn't.


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughter
From: Paul Burke
Date: 25 Nov 11 - 01:36 PM

OK, so all expressions used in blues are sexual, and no sexual reference in a shanty is what it seems. That's clear, these sailors were a sheltered lot. Where the hell's Beddw? The nearest Google maps will give me is Beddwgan, a farmhouse near Pentraeth, the right sort of area for a song that mentions Nefyn, but about 3 miles inland and not really the sort of place where a sailor would want to go to get flogged. Maybe a Welsh speaker will tell us what such a placename could mean- W's grave perhaps.

You'll be telling us next that their desire for a pie dish was actually a wish to be keelhauled and shot on the quarterdeck.


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughter
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 25 Nov 11 - 01:33 PM

Lighter:

You asked, "Why use an "obscure hidden meaning" instead of the literal reading of the words?"

First: The song is comic, about tongue in cheek punishments for the erring sailor.

Second:
In a real-life naval situation, the captain might not even have a daughter. If he did, she probably would not be aboard. If he did and she was, the drunken sailor might, on the surface, see putting him to bed with a female (ANY female) as a reward rather than a punishment for his drunkenness. Alternatively, the captain in that case would surely be enraged, and not only the drunken sailor but those who instigated putting him in her bed would be severely punished. All of which would be in conflict with the spirit of song, as in the first commend.

Third:
As a parallel to "kissing the gunner's daughter", which is traditionally known to have the "obscure, hidden meaning" of being flogged with the cat while bound to one of the big guns.

q.e.d. Which should have been obvious.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughter
From: Dead Horse
Date: 25 Nov 11 - 12:51 PM

Nothing whatever of a sexual nature in it.
It refers to a method of punishment involving a sound thrashing.
May have originally been a Bosuns Daughter,or even Gunners Daughter, but owing to passage of time and having passed through the hands of many folkies, has been promoted to command rank :-)
I am sure that I have heard Baggywrinkle singing Hob Y Deri Dando the line "I wish I was in Beddw with the captains daughter" which is in keeping with the Welsh genius for turning the meaning of a phrase for comical effect.
Where is Crane Driver when you need him, eh?


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughter
From: kendall
Date: 25 Nov 11 - 12:10 PM

And, as far as I know, the "Cat" was kept in the Bos'ns locker.


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughter
From: kendall
Date: 25 Nov 11 - 12:08 PM

I still say it is simply a bawdy line in the chanty. Another example of free speech is the line:
The Captain's daughter Mabel though young was and fresh and able,To fornicate with the second Mate upon the chart room table.


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughter
From: Lighter
Date: 25 Nov 11 - 09:26 AM

Why should anyone assume that such a straightforward statement must have a completely different and obscure hidden meaning?


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughter
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Nov 11 - 05:54 PM

THe cpatains daughter is another name for the cat o' nine tales.


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughter
From: alanabit
Date: 01 Jul 05 - 01:48 PM

Here's the URL I promised Shanghaiceltic. I got it from another site. (I am an Old Boy of the Royal Hospital School, Holbrook, which has strong links to the RN).
http://www.corpun.com/kiss1.htm

I rather suspect that the expression actually was "Kissing the gunner's daughter" and that folk memory transformed it into the phrase, which is the title of this thread.


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughter
From: Les from Hull
Date: 28 Jun 05 - 11:59 AM

The women who went to sea (as opposed to the 'wives' who visited when the ship was in port) were the wives of the 'standing officers' petty officers who were appointed to the ship permanently - the bosun, the gunner and the carpenter. Carrying other women was illegal (but not unknown).


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughter
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 28 Jun 05 - 09:41 AM

I was wrong in my earlier post about midshipmen and the cat, they could not be flogged, only beaten. There was a subtle difference in the RN. Flogging implied the use of the cat on a rating who was triced up on a grating, whereas a middy (also known as a 'snotty') could be beaten with a cane whilst lying over a gun.

Another term associated more in the USN than the RN today is 'son of a gun'.

In the RN women were often carried on board but not listed on the ships muster. This was at the captains discretion. The responsibility for feeding them and any offspring was down to the particular listed man. Therefore in many cases the women were the spouses of petty officers, bosuns, mates, warrant officers or commissioned officers. However this was not always so and if the spouse was married to a lower deck rating then she shared his mess space often sleeping on the deck between guns. If a child was concieved then it would be a 'son of a gun' even if the child was female.

What did these women do when the ship was in action? Often they would help the ships surgeon acting as unpaid nurses and loblolly boys.

Sorry about the drift.


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughter
From: alanabit
Date: 28 Jun 05 - 09:01 AM

I believe Shanghaiceltic is very close. "Kissing the gunner's daughter" referred to the practice of tying the lad to the cannon, so that he could receive his beating. It might have looked a bit as if the lad were trying to make love to the cannon, which gave rise to the grim humour (not at all uncommon in the navy).
I can try to find a URL to a site with more on this subject later on.


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughter
From: GUEST,tony
Date: 28 Jun 05 - 08:44 AM

You would have been very hard pressed, indeed, to seek a romantic association with some of the captain's daughters I met in the Merchant Navy. I can only assume that line describes a severe form of punishment in itself and doesn't stand for anything else.


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughter
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 27 Jun 05 - 04:22 PM

In the Israeli Naval Museum in Haifa, there is a wicked lash with what seems to be closer to 32 than 9 tails. That's a Captain's Daughter if anything is. The sobering thought is that the lash was on board an Egyptian vessel taken in the late 1950s.


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughter
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 30 May 04 - 07:15 PM

Kissing the gunners daughter was a punishment often reserved for Midshipmen. Midshipmen were the lowest level of commissioned rank in the navy and as such they could not be flogged, but young midshipmen could be beaten with a cane across the backside.

Flogging was a far more severe punishment often used in the Navy but less so in the merchant navy. Generally it was reseved for members of the lower deck not officers.

Certainly in the RN at the time of Nelson sailors had to make their own cat, which after punishment was ditched. This was becuase the cat's tails would be bloodied and often carried lumps of flesh from the back of the person being punished.

In the RN the person to be flogged was triced up to a grating which was usually against the ships side on the upper deck.

The original line was 'Give him a taste of the captains daughter' a reference to the cat. Which makes more sense than 'Put him in bed with the captains daughter'.


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughter
From: Peace
Date: 30 May 04 - 06:20 PM

Re "meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughter". It means you are busted from seaman, first class.


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughter
From: Joe_F
Date: 29 May 04 - 06:27 PM

I always imagined the "Cosher Bailey" line as implying "everything I see reminds me of how randy I am". Even a ship.


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughter
From: GUEST,Chanteyranger
Date: 29 May 04 - 02:15 PM

"Gagroyle." We often wish. *BG*

Sorry, Garg, but I don't follow your point.


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughter
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 28 May 04 - 11:53 PM

Ahhh...Chanty...I too....once carried up to four-dozen-different-personae......upon my MC-back....

Sincerely,

Gagroyle

If only to carry on conversation with someone, anyone....other than myself.


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughter
From: GUEST,Anne Croucher
Date: 28 May 04 - 06:28 PM

Kissing the gunner's daughter was to be given a beating or spanking when laid on the barrel of a gun.

Laid on the slippery barrel instinct makes the muscles tense and the blows hurt more and do more damage.

there are various references to Captain's daughters in bed which seem to indicate that it is just that - including catching the pox which as far as I know is not usually got from instruments of punishment - though if anyone knows otherwise ....

Anne


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughter
From: GUEST,Andrew
Date: 28 May 04 - 04:58 PM

I haven't seen a reference in the thread to another use of the line in Hob y Deri Dando


And I wish I was in bed with the captain's daughter.

Jane Jane come to the glen .etc

Makes you wonder why there was that wish, if everything above is correct !

Andrew


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughter
From: GUEST,Chanteyranger
Date: 28 May 04 - 04:35 PM

Don, "Have you seen", etc. is a modern verse that's been inserted into the song, mistakenly taking the original verse literally.


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughter
From: TS
Date: 28 May 04 - 04:23 PM

If you check out the thread on the "Origins of 'Drunken Sailor'" there's a blurb twards the end about the "Captain's Daughter" and I believe it was said that it is infact a item of enforcing order.....Slainte!


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughter
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 28 May 04 - 03:09 PM

I had Polish students staying with me last year. Their English was superb. Really wonderful - they understood all kinds of picky syntactical questions. And it was their first time outside Poland.

They sometimes had a bit of a problem understanding what I said - but not as much as Americans do!


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughter
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 28 May 04 - 01:07 PM

Kissing the GUNNERS daughter... From what I've discovered, the man was bent over the cannon, sometimes lashed to it, and then that cannon was fired....

Lovely people these 'sailors' eh

;-)


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughte
From: GUEST,Don
Date: 28 May 04 - 11:15 AM

I think the verse - 'put him in bed with the captain's daughter' is literal since the follow-up verse is -'have you seen the captain's daughter.' Sounds to me like it's a continuous challenge to find ways to punish the drunken sailor.


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughte
From: Leadfingers
Date: 28 May 04 - 10:47 AM

When we do 'Drunken Sailor' the Captains Daughter verse always reminds me of the Golf Club gig we did a while ago. You could me in bed with THAT captains daughter ANYIME!!


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughte
From: GUEST
Date: 28 May 04 - 10:24 AM

"captain's daughter" was an instrument similar to a cat-o-nine-tails -
so "put him to bed with the captain's daughter" was "flog him"


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughte
From: GUEST,Strudelbag
Date: 28 May 04 - 10:21 AM

I first heard the verse "put him into bed with the captain's daughter" in 1966. Back then, it obviously meant "the captain's daughter" and nothing else. It seemed to be the only well-known "bawdy" verse of the song at that time.

I wonder if Jack Tar would have dared to sing such a verse in the middle of voyage?


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughte
From: Karolina
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 01:41 PM

Thanks, friends.

Barry, please go to the newly established "Chantey festivals in Poland" thread to read my reply; I don't have enough courage to test Chanteyranger's patience any more :)

Yours,

Karolina


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughte
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 06:41 AM

"I don't think I quite called you a liar, Karolina" Well, that's what it looked like to me. "You aren't what you say you are" is what I took flattop to be saying. Which is fair enough in a way, because there are jokers around, and that's the kind of game jokers play. But it's not a friendly way to greet a stranger.

And welcome to the Mudcat, Karolina. We're pretty friendly most of the time. And the more globally diverse we get the better.


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughte
From: flattop
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 10:07 PM

As a displaced Cape Bretoner, I thought that what I wrote was mild for sailor talk - perhaps not mild enough for mudtalk though. If Karolina comes up with translations to the phrases, our Polish nautical vocabulary will be enhanced. If you want me to re-think the way I behaved, I will need a couple of high tides to do the rethinking.


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughte
From: Chanteyranger
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 09:31 PM

Karolina -

It's not your fault. I did ask. It would have been better, though, to have created a new thread with a title such as "Chantey festivals in Poland" but there are one or two points I need to make here. I have not until now felt compelled to single out one person for sharp criticism on the Mudcat, but I think flattop has gone beyond the friendly sort of teasing that goes on here, into the realm of insulting and degrading behavior. He has baited you with bigoted remarks and owes you an apology. If flattop lives in or visits the East Coast of the U.S. he will have a chance to hear one of the excellent chantey singers living there - Jacek Sulanowski. If he visits San Francisco he will have a chance to hear one of the finest chantey singers that the large pool of West Coast performers has to offer - the Mudcat's own "rradriano." If he gets the chance to sail on a square-rigged sail training ship, there's a good chance that ship was built at the Gdansk shipyard, such as Canada's training ship "Concordia," for just one example. But aside from those points, nobody should be baited like that here. I hope flattop re-thinks the way he's behaved towards you on this thread. Well, sorry, but that needed to be said.


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughte
From: GUEST,Barry Finn
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 09:07 PM

Hi Karolina, years ago I met a finer group of sailors as you'd ever run across. They were the crew of the Zawisza Czarny (after the hero the Black Knight, no?). My first taste of their seamanship & musicianship came combined as Marek Siurawski started playing concertina as we were getting under sail all the while he continued to play & when he had given the orders to raise sail he sang a couple halyard shanties (still pumping on the squeeze box), shanties i've since only heard 2 other people sing & only one of the 2. he was followed by 2 fiddles & a guitar & those that didn't sing along danced. I was stuffed with food & drink by the crew & later joined Marek & a few others in a planed dockside concert, later came a spontaneous singing party. By the time the Zawisza Czarny was to head out towards England I got an invite to join as crew. When I was told how long that would take (30 days) I had to decline (SOB!!) & was egged on with the comment "we may be the slowest ship in the fleet but we certinly have the best parties". If you have word of Marek would you pass it along this way, I hear he pushing a memory enhancing something or other. Anyway, if this is even a small representation of your county's male & female sailors then you should be respected as one of west's finest maritime nations. I will looking foward to seeing the Dar Mlodziezy (sp?) in less than a few weeks time. Barry


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughte
From: flattop
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 08:28 PM

:)


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughte
From: GUEST,Karolina
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 07:45 PM

Thanks, Chanteyranger.

We do have many shanty (chantey?) festivals here, that's true. The date of one, actually, has drawn very near. The 8th Shanty Festival in Gi¿ycko is going to take place on 6 - 8 July. I'm not going there this year, but I've been to the festival last year, with a bunch of not-interested-in-shanties friends, and we had great fun. Gi¿ycko is a little town placed in the Mazury region, where there are many lakes connected with each other by a system of canals. Many young people choose to spend their holiday in the lakes. It may not be very challenging, but much cheaper than going to the sea. For those who like challenges we have the Baltic Sea, connected by channels with the North Sea and then the next step is the Atlantic Ocean... I've never been that far, I must admit that even my experience with Baltic is a little one. But the lakes are just okay for me.

Private sailboat owners are few and far between here and this "lakeyachting" is much more common. This is also reflected in our shanties. Apart from traditional sea shanties we often sing songs that were born among the Mazurian lakes, songs describing the joys of owning a small boat with no sailing instruments on it :)

We also have a huge festival that takes place, as far as I remember, in February, in Cracow. Perhaps this is the one you've heard of.

In Warsaw there are many pubs in which you can sing shanties and sea songs, both in Polish and in English, and listen to some good music, too.

I don't think a new thread would be necessary. You are welcome to ask questions about Polish shanties and songs in the "Message from Karolina" thread. (Why such title? Go and see!) But I'm sure it's me who will learn much from you rather than the other way round!!!

Czeœæ, radriano!!! How nice to meet a countryman here. Thanks for your words of welcome. I like singing shanties, too. My fav group is Roaring Twenties, of course I love Marek Siurawski and Jurek Porêbski, and I enjoy all the songs that can be put into the szanta szuwarowo-bagienna cathegory, too. I wonder whether you've heard of a group called Krzysiek Piechota i Kubryk? They're quite okay, as well.

Hope to hear from you again. Jeszcze raz dziêkujê.

Melani, re: yachting I remember that when I was taking my first course in yachting, our crew consisted of only two people + a very young instructor. We were aboard a very small, chartered boat ( An Omega, radriano :) and what bothered us was that after each day of sailing it got filled with quite a huge amount of water. But, as we were a bunch of very optimistic yachtsmen, we weren't worried too much, just a bit astonished how it is posssible for the water to get inside our boat. After two weeks of sailing, when we were giving the boat back to her owner, this is what he said: I forgot to tell you, but hope you've noticed. This boat has a nasty hole in her hull.

Chanteyranger, the thread got very messy, indeed. I feel you deserve an apology, it's all my fault!!!

Karolina


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughte
From: flattop
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 04:33 PM

What a good idea Melani! Karolina could teach us the Polish phrases so if we're ever stranded on a boat with only drunken Polish sailors... How would you say 'take the tiller', Karolina? How would you say, 'Move your stinkpot so I can get by with my blowboat?' Or, 'When you finish pumping out the head, we can all dive in for a swim?'


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughte
From: Melani
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 03:12 PM

Karolina--re; English as a second language: as an inexperienced sailor (I still am) about to take some people for a ride in a small sailboat, I was paired with a guy named "Jack", who had an accent I didn't recognize. I was told he had about as much sailing experience as I had, so I figured that would work. We got in the boat, and I said to him, "Why don't you take the tiller?" He replied, "What's a tiller?" I said,"It's that stick back there, I thought you'd sailed before." "Yes, but I only know the terminology in Polish." We ran into the fishing pier.

This thread has taken some really odd turns.


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughte
From: Gary T
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 01:34 PM

I'm sorry, radriano, I checked and it is not possible. (VBG)


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughte
From: radriano
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 01:25 PM

Hey, Karolina, welcome to Mudcat.

There are always some assholes in every crowd. Don't pay attention them. Asshole may be a strong term to use but I am appalled at their behavior.

Why can't a Polish woman be a sailor? It is well known that shanties are very popular in Poland as is sailing. I am Polish myself. I suppose that some Mudcatters would be suprised that I am a shanty singer. My God, can that be possible?


radriano


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughte
From: Scabby Douglas
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 08:23 AM

I stand corrected - not the "cat", then.

But I still like the correspondence in sound between daughter and starter for another connection in this thread...


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughte
From: kendall
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 08:19 AM

A "starter" was a short piece of rope which the Bos'n used to get men moving. In a dangerous situation such as reefing the sails in a sudden gale, it required that the hands move as quickly as possible. It was the Bos'ns job to move them.


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughte
From: Scabby Douglas
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 04:18 AM

If it helps, a term commonly used in the 18/19th century for an officer's cat-0'-nine-tails was the captains's "starter"... I think it would be easy to see how that could be misheard or alternatively remembered as capatins's daughter..

cheers all


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughte
From: Chanteyranger
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 03:03 AM

Thanks, everyone. It sounds like the jury's still out on the meaning, since it looks like there are different theories abut it. Sean - thanks for responding. I should have known I first heard of the symbolic conext of it on the Mudcat. I'm interested in exploring your explanation more. It sounds like the most plausible to me, based on what I know of chanteys in general. Karolina - I welcome and value your input here. I hear that Poland is a great place to hear chanteys, and that there is a HUGE chantey festival there. Maybe you could start a thread on the festival when the date draws nearer? I think there'd be alot of interest among mudcatters. Kendall - chanteys being a form of free expression for merchant seamen has only one taboo - they generally couldn't sing verses openingly critical of the master within earshot of him or the mates. It had to be couched in symbolism, or sung aloft in a "bunting" chantey (an example being Paddy Doyle's boots - "The dirty old man's on the poop!") Lots of complaints about general conditions aboard ships in those songs, though. Thanks again, all.


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughte
From: GUEST,Karolina
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 02:14 AM

Flattop,

I think that what I'm really interested in is a bit of craic, how the Irish call it, and that more - less means a nice, enjoyable chat. I never claimed to be an expert in any field and the fact I'm Polish doesn't mean I know everything about my country. As far as literature goes, you are far more knowledgeable than me and I'm afraid I won't be able to keep up with you.

Don't feel discouraged, though. Wish you good night!

Ah, one more thing, perhaps - let's leave this thread, as it was established for quite another purpose!!!

Barry Finn, I've learned many interesting things from you, thanks!!!

Karolina


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Subject: RE: Help: meaning of 'in bed w/ captain's daughte
From: flattop
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 01:37 AM

It may be early in Poland but it's late in canada, so, I'm off to dreamland.


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