What are 'segs'?-Testimony of Patience Kershaw

Subject: What are 'segs'?
From: GUEST,aesop
Date: 05 Jul 00 - 07:15 PM

In "The Testimony of Patience Kershaw" there is a line "A lady's hands are lily white But mine are full of cuts and segs" What are "segs"? From the context I'd say bruises

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: Bagpuss
Date: 05 Jul 00 - 07:29 PM

I don't know what they are in that context, but to me, segs are little metal bits you put in the sole and heel of your shoe, to stop them wearing down.

I know thats of no use to you, but I thought I'd share it anyway.

Bagpuss

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 05 Jul 00 - 09:32 PM

I've just looke seg up in Chambers 20th Centuary and in addition to the above definition it says "poss from O.N. siff, hard skin, a callous". That seems to fit the context.

Jon

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: JohnB
Date: 05 Jul 00 - 09:48 PM

Oh I are! segs be them little patches o hard skin that thee gets on yer ands un feat, or yer bum if yez werks in an office. Coloquially speaking in the more northerly areas of England that is. JohnB

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: GUEST,aesop
Date: 07 Jul 00 - 12:51 PM

Thanks! "Callouses" sounds like the American equivalent

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: Ringer
Date: 07 Jul 00 - 01:00 PM

Round here (Derbyshire), "segs" are blisters

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: JedMarum
Date: 07 Jul 00 - 01:57 PM

segs? I thought they were what you ahd with toast and bacon for breakfast?

;-)

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: GUEST,aesop
Date: 12 Jul 00 - 07:43 PM

I got this reply from Nigel Schofield, when I asked if they were callouses. He says: It's much more specific than that. Segs is a Northern dialect word (Barnsley to Halifax then west into Lancashire on the Leeds University dialect map) It means "broad cuts" - i.e. ones that have a shape rather than just straight lines (as in "cutts and segs" (sic)). It's related to the French "segue" which is used in music (and inaccurately in the radio industry) to describe the seamless joining of two pieces. It is still used in Yorkshire, to describe the piece of leather/rubber etc inserted after cutting of a hole in a worn or damaged shoe soles. The cobblers I pass each day on the way to work has a display card marked "seggs" (sic) in his window showing different sizes, colours and shapes of standard insertions. Two or three years ago, they became fashionable among students who went clubbing. An interesting coincidence as Spanish has a similar word for the metal inserts in flamenco shoes and of course Bojangles referred to the "sigs in my tap shoes". Hope that's of use

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jul 00 - 08:01 PM

Segs! There's a word to evoke. It takes me back to when I was maybe 10, and found myself being suspended by the ear by a store detective, resplendent in the uniform of my local school, and clutching a card of segs that I'd tried to purloin.
Blakey's was the generic word for the hammer-in metal heel taps with built-in spikes to hammer into the leather that you'd buy stuck six to a piece of card with the warning 'wet leather before fixing' - but we never did and they often fell out.
The passion for Blakey' finally waned not with the failed shoplifting expedition but with the attempt to put some hefty lumps of iron onto the heels of a pair of sandals.
I figured the best way was to tape the Blakey's to the heels, spikes uppermost, and jump from a kitchen chair onto the floor, wearing the sandals.
The rest is history - and an abiding fear of tetanus jabs.

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: Amergin
Date: 12 Jul 00 - 10:21 PM

I got segs on my palm...

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: SingsIrish Songs
Date: 12 Jul 00 - 10:59 PM

To me SEG stands for "shit(e) eatin' grin" (excuse the language)--learned it from me Mum "wipe that "shit(e) eatin' grin off your face young lady".....

Couldn't resist--

Mary, wearing a huge "SEG"

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 13 Jul 00 - 12:49 AM

I've never seen anyone eat shit, but I don't imagine they'd be grinning while they ate... Odd saying.

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: John J
Date: 13 Jul 00 - 03:13 AM

Segs are hard bits of skin that form on the hand, particularly when heavy work has been carried out.

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: Llanfair
Date: 13 Jul 00 - 03:43 AM

Or on the ends of the fingers of the hand used to form chords on the guitar. Hwyl, Bron.

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: GUEST,colin gill
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 10:01 AM

Seg's are form of callous usually on the palms of the hand, they ars caused by a repetitive increase in preasure over a small area, the preasure is not high enough to cause blistering but seg's may lead to skin ulceration in the long term. the use of a hand moisturiser may help after repeated preausre.

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 12:47 PM

Developing segs on your elbow is said to be conclusive evidence of the onset of senility.















Searching for them is an even more foolproof indicator!

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: greg stephens
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 12:56 PM

The essence of a seg(as far as I am aware) is that it is a cut that starts to heal open, rather than shut.So there is a sort of oval hole with a ridge all round. I remember geting them on the underside of my left index finger, in the region of the first knuckle joint. Not the callouses at the end, but the cuts underneath that get string dirt in from sliding up and down the neck. Or knife cuts anywhere on the fingers when working outside in cold weather, that never get bound up and properly healed.

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: Joe_F
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 08:32 PM

"A callosity, esp. on the hand" says the OED.

N.B. Callus (n.), callous (adj.). Hence, callused, not calloused.

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: Joe Nicholson
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 09:14 PM

They used to marketed as Blakeys Boot Protectors and made blakeys foundry at Armley, Leeds.

Joe nicholson

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: Will Fly
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 03:18 AM

In my part of Lancashire in the 1950s - Morecambe Bay area - a small lump or a wart was often described as a seg. As were the little metal sole and heel protectors that my grandad would tap into his boots when doing his Saturday night snobbin.

And snobbin was what many working class folk did to keep their boots and shoes fettled, because it was cheaper and quicker than going to a cobblers. I still have the iron last he used to use while sitting on the back step.

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: Gedi
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 08:35 AM

When I was at school in the '70's near Wigan, my metalwork teacher was a chap who came from Preston. A great bloke, he used to say things like "Don't sit on the bench (ie workbench) or you'll get segs on your arse!". Which we of course as schoolboys thought was hilarious.

He also put the head of one troublemaker in a vice and applied pressure - a practice which I guess would be frowned upon today.

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: folk1e
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 07:00 PM

Yeah ......... segs, certainly in the original context of the song are hard patches of skin on fingers and parts of the hand caused by hard work! This is usualy on the palm of the hand inside the first nuckle joint, causing a round(ish) patch. You could also buy a flat metal poiece to nail into your shoe or boot called Segs.

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: Raggytash
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 09:58 AM

A girlfriend of mine had segs in her bellybutton from opening bottles of beer for me in bed.

Fond memories eh

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: GUEST,Stan Edwards
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 10:42 AM

My grandfather used to repair shoes (in Wales. Segs were the kidney shaped nails that were put into toes and heels of shoes.
When I started work I met someone who also knew of in that way but also used it to mean a person who was the lowest of the low under your foot.

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 12:22 PM

Mike Harding in one of his routines used to talk about the erstwhile dance troupe on Top of the Pops, in days long gone. They were called Pan's People, but he called them Pan's Cripples,he said the 'big blond one' [sic], had segs in her belly button, caused by opening beer bottles for the camera crew ☺☻

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: fat B****rd
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 02:35 PM

"Segs" is what comes after "Fogs"

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Sep 10 - 06:49 AM

Old Liverpol saying:
"He's so lazy he's got segs on his arse from sitting down".
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 29 Jan 13 - 10:31 AM

As I understand it 'segs' in this context are little squirts of wee wee that splash upon the face.

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: Newport Boy
Date: 29 Jan 13 - 11:00 AM

Apart from all these mundane definitions, seg means:
1. sedge grass
2. some species of iris
3. a castrated bull

Websters, 1913

Phil

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: RoyH (Burl)
Date: 29 Jan 13 - 11:36 AM

Where I grew up 'Segs' and 'Blakeys' were as Stan Edwards says, 'kidney shaped nails' used on the soles of your shoes. Self repair of shoes was called 'obbin', carried out on a foot-shaped last known as the 'obbin Iron'. Segs and Blakeys were for use on shoes. Boots needed heavier studs.

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: GUEST,Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Jan 13 - 12:27 PM

Correct, RoyH.
Ignore what the charlatan Webster says, with his bastardised version of 'English for Americans Who Can't Spell Properly', he knew nowt!

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: Megan L
Date: 29 Jan 13 - 12:30 PM

In Orkney Segs are yellow iris they grow wild around the burns

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jan 13 - 12:34 PM

The reason for putting sets in your shoes at school was to have sparking competitions in the playground. Cards of ses could be had from woolworths

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 29 Jan 13 - 12:49 PM

Blakey's Metal Segs are still available -

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.timpson.co.uk/_getImage.php%3Fimage%3D/i/products/877/1_l.jpg&imgrefurl=http://

Timpson's and many another shoe-shop chain used to be in every High Street in the country - now all but disappeared.

Ross

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 29 Jan 13 - 12:50 PM

I once went into Woolworths in Chelsea - long before Woolworths was closed down of course, and I asked one of the assistants if they sold clothes pegs.

"Yer wha?"

"Clothes pegs. For hanging washing on the line."

"Dunno what you mean."

Mindful of my fairly strong scouse accent and the evident difficulty of comprehension, I enunciated as clearly and as precisely as possible. "Do you have any c-l-o-t-h-e-s p-e-gs?"

She went and got the supervisor. "Have we got any old segs?"

And I didn't even have to leave the country.

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: Gervase
Date: 29 Jan 13 - 06:44 PM

Blimey, what comes around. Guest 12th July 2000 was me; and I've still got the scars in my heels!

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: GUEST,R
Date: 22 Feb 14 - 12:45 PM

Very interesting.
I didn't know what this word meant either, but then I was born in the Midlands and spent most of my life in the West Country before returning to the Midlands. What chance have I got? ;-)
So,what brought me here?
I too was trying to find out the meaning of this word having heard the Unthanks version of the testimony of Patience Kershaw.
What a fantastic song! So evocative. Even though the song itself is relatively modern, because it is based on a historical source it has an authenticity that brings history to life.

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Feb 14 - 01:23 PM

Segg- hard, as skin is.
Cumberland - a wound with a callous skin over it, said to be segg'd(Kennett M.S.)
The Kennett reference dates the term to between earlier than 1728, Kenett's death.
Dictionary of Archaic and Proverbial Words J O Halliwell, 1847
A regular saying of my mothers was;
"if you sit round much longer doing nothing you'll get segs on your arse".
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Feb 14 - 01:52 PM

"Timpson's and many another shoe-shop chain used to be in every High Street in the country - now all but disappeared."

We've still got one in our Town Centre. "New Towns" sometimes tend to be a bit old-fashioned that way.

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: GUEST,geordieboy
Date: 22 Feb 14 - 02:01 PM

Segs are calluses, mainly on the hands of working men. Unknown to Tories.

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Feb 14 - 06:29 PM

In Salford they were areas of hard skin on the hands

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: GUEST,Padre sans cookie
Date: 22 Feb 14 - 06:57 PM

In hematology, 'segs' is the abbreviation for segmented neutrophils - a type of white blood cells which are often increased in bacterial infections.

Padre

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: r.padgett
Date: 23 Feb 14 - 08:59 AM

within the context of the song a "seg" could be a reference to marks on the body where pieces of coal "flints" have entered the body and are either still there or have been removed and the skin grown back over the wound

"Dust in my lungs, "blue scars" on my body a miner me for all to see"

Ray

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: marcusjames
Date: 23 Feb 14 - 09:14 AM

Seems to be well established now, but I get hard skin on my palm, particularly at the base of the fingers, from holding work tools.

We have always called them segs in Lancashire

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Feb 14 - 06:51 PM

In Swansea, it comes before marriage.

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Feb 14 - 02:26 AM

"In Swansea, it comes before marriage."
In Liverpool segs used to refer also to hard, sore callouses on the soles of the feet - I always wondered if somebody referred to a having "segs appeal" (they talk funny in Liverpool) was a foot fetishist
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: GUEST,Ben
Date: 24 Feb 14 - 09:52 AM

Many of the older generations in my family were granite masons and quarrymen and the word "segs" in my experience meant the blue-coloured scars resulting from the inclusions of dirt (in their case usually stone-dust) in the cut which remained after healing.
When I left home in Cornwall and went to Yorkshire for a few years I was surprised to find my landlord using the same word with the same meaning, though in his case, as overman in a colliery near Barnsley, he meant the blue marks and scars retained by coal-miners from cuts suffered underground. I had thought, up to then, that it was a Cornish-dialect word but obviously not, there it was alive and well and living in Yorkshire!
I had never encountered the term as meaning hard skin, a callus, or scars with a hard callus surrounding them, though that seems to be the general concensus here in this thread. Interesting!
Oh yes and I had Blakey's segs on my shoes too, but that's a different story altogether!

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Feb 14 - 04:46 AM

"Segs appeal"? I would have you know this is Mudcat, much more likely to be segs and violins....

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 21 Nov 15 - 04:06 PM

When I was a girl in 1970s Stockport, my big sister had a Saturday job at the local greengrocer's. She used to often complain of segs on her palms from lugging heavy sacks of spuds and carrots. A seg is, to me, not so much a callous, as an area where the skin has been repeatedly dragged and formed a ridge.

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?-Testimony of Patience Kershaw
From: Mr Red
Date: 22 Nov 15 - 06:21 AM

I've never seen anyone eat shit, but I don't imagine they'd be grinning while they ate...

fecal transplant? All about improving gut flora.

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?-Testimony of Patience Kershaw
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Apr 20 - 09:18 PM

I'm reading "The Wooden Horse", by Eric Williams, 1958. It's a true story about 3 guys who escaped from a PoW camp in Germany in 1943 by digging a tunnel.

It took place at the same PoW camp, Stalag Luft III, and at the same time as "The Great Escape" tunnel was being dug.

The context is that the prisoners took turns digging down in the tunnel of their own, underneath a wooden horse they placed near the fence every day. A few guys would practice vaulting over the wooden horse while another guy would go down into the tunnel and dig.

Unlike the guys in The Great Escape tunnel, these guys didn't have ventilation or lighting and had to dig in the nude. It was hot and dirty and they were constantly sweating, and, "They grew segs on their elbows and knees and broke their fingernails."

I'm fairly certain "segs" are "calouses".

It's no secret that the three guys made it back to England, so I'm not spoiling the ending. It's still an incredible story; one I highly suggest reading.

Thomas
NYC
.............

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?-Testimony of Patience Kershaw
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 02:47 AM

I grew up with this word in Liverpool but when I moved to Manchester nobody had heard it; in London, you might as well have been talking Urdu if you did
My mother had a saying when one of us sat around without doing nything; "If you sir around much longer you'll get segs on your arse"

Another word she used was "nesh" - basically referring to someone who complained complained say, about bad weather or hard work.
Thet was occasionally used in Manchester but I never saw it in print until I read Mrs Gaskell's 'Sylvia's Lovers" - she used it as my mother had
Elizabth Gaskell was born in London, but married and lived in Knutsford, Cheshire - she obviously listened to how the people spoke, which was why she wrote such good books

My mam had lots of sayings - we were not too well off and when one of us asked, "What's for dinner" we were invariably told, "Cow's sock and hairy bacon"
I still miss my mam and her lovely way of putting things - mind you, when she first heard me sing she told me, "If you were singing for shit, you'd never get the smell of it"
She changed her mind when I took her to the Spinners Club and sang from the floor though:-)
Jim Caarroll

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?-Testimony of Patience Kershaw
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 04:17 AM

"Segs" were also the things they brought the coal in in the posh part of Liverpool
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?-Testimony of Patience Kershaw
From: Snuffy
Date: 28 Apr 20 - 01:58 PM

"Cow's sock and hairy bacon". Bacon? You were lucky; whenever we asked my mum the answer was "Stewed bugs an' onions"

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?-Testimony of Patience Kershaw
From: GUEST,Roger
Date: 28 Apr 20 - 04:29 PM

Segs is wot yer 'ave on yer 'ands if yer woork wid 'em.

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?-Testimony of Patience Kershaw
From: r.padgett
Date: 29 Apr 20 - 09:11 AM

"Cuts and seg" as mentioned in the song clearly refer to the injuries caused to the hands my father had segs which I think referred to the brown callouses caused by shovelling and using the pick to hew at the coal face ~before mechanisation days of course, on his hands

Ray

Subject: RE: What are 'segs'?-Testimony of Patience Kershaw
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Apr 20 - 09:20 AM

Forgot to mention, "segs" was also what posh Liverpool people did in bed
Jim