Guild 12 Strings

Subject: Guild 12 Strings
From: GUEST,Lyn
Date: 13 Jul 00 - 06:53 PM

I am writing this on behalf of a non-wired friend.
She has an opportunity to acquire a 1978 Guild G212NT, in 7.5 condition cosmetically, structurally sound and all original. (We believe it to be a pre-Fender Guild) and there are no cracks (a few small dings here and there --nothing major) and apparently it plays and sounds great. It has a natural spruce top and, we believe the sides and back are mahogany, fingerboard and bridge are rosewood.

If there are any Guild affectionados on this Forum who are familiar with this particular year, make and model, we would very much appreciate a rough ball park idea of what it is worth in todays' current market.
Thought we'd throw this out here (as we didn't want to pay George Gruhn for his expertise.)

Thanks very much in advance for informed opinions.

Subject: RE: Guild 12 Strings
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 Jul 00 - 07:24 PM

Yeah, you'll find quite a few of us who proclaim Guild to make the best 12's on the market, and I hope someone can help you out.

First a question......Are you sure of the model number and that its not FG212? The single G designation was used to describe a slightly different body shape. The G's were a slightly smaller version of a dreadnought shape, not like OOO or OM, but the same square shouldered, fat waisted dreadnought design scaled down about 3/4-7/8 size. FG's are more common.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Guild 12 Strings
From: GUEST,Lyn
Date: 13 Jul 00 - 07:46 PM

Thanks for the encouragement Catspaw.

It is definitely a Guild G212NT (no "F" designation). The body is very much dreadnough looking as opposed to the jumbo look of the more current offerings from Guild.

My friend has this guitar on loan at the moment and is here at my place. It fits perfectly in my hardshell D-28 case with about 1/4 of an inch to spare between the end of the peghead and the interior wall of the case.

The one thing which is interesting is how heavy the neck is, in relation to the rest of guitar. Feels like they used a lead pipe as the truss rod. No kidding very heavy neck. Perhaps for additional reinforcement and strengthening.

In any event, dying to know what something like this is worth. I found a vintage guitar store on a web site in Finland that has a 1975 version of the identical instrument, and they are asking the U.S. equivalent of about $1,100.00 (after converting from Finish currency) into U.S. Is this a fair assessment of its value, or is it inflated?

Subject: RE: Guild 12 Strings
From: GUEST,Lyn
Date: 13 Jul 00 - 07:50 PM

Sorry, just went to a currency converter site and the site in Finland is asking more along the lines to the equivalent of $950.00 to $1,000.00 U.S.

Still waiting to hear and learn of the current market value of this instrument over on this side of the pond.
Thanks.

Subject: RE: Guild 12 Strings
From: bbelle
Date: 13 Jul 00 - 08:00 PM

Lyn ... contact kim sherman at [e-mail]. Tell her what you wrote above. Also tell I (Jenny - Biscuit Dave's cousin) suggested you contact her. She's a good person ...

moonchild

Subject: RE: Guild 12 Strings
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 Jul 00 - 08:01 PM

Thanks Lyn.....The "G" is much rarer than the FG in both 6 and 12. As far as the neck goes, that's Guild. Comparable year equivalents in the 6 strings run between $550 and $850 (US) depending on condition of course and there are som with maple back and sides too. Obviously the twelve commands a few more bucks, but if you're negotiating, start low of course. I think if its truly in VGC+ or better shape, a good start would be 650-700 and try to get it for less than 900.

Just a guess.....Someone else will be along I'm sure. (BTW, I saw a beautiful 1975 Rosewood G-75 in Near Mint for $825....so go from there. Also a maple near mint, 1076 for $750.....both are of course sixes and not twelves, but its a start)

Spaw

Subject: RE: Guild 12 Strings
From: kendall
Date: 13 Jul 00 - 08:31 PM

While I must disagree with Spaw to some extent, I think the best 12 string guitar available is made by Apollonio of Rockport Maine, certainly one of the very best factory made 12 strings comes from Guild. If it is all you say it is, it should be worth a grand.

Subject: RE: Guild 12 Strings
From: GUEST,Lyn
Date: 13 Jul 00 - 08:42 PM

Thank you Catspaw and Moonchild! I have noted the email address you were kind enough to provide.

This is indeed becoming very interesting considering what the seller has asked for this instrument. I have been playing it for the past half hour and cannot find anything wrong with it. It has a very balanced and sweet sound to it (-makes me want to get out those old John Denver song books!)
Just want to see if other's are in Catspaws general agreement on price range value.

Subject: RE: Guild 12 Strings
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 Jul 00 - 08:47 PM

No problem Kendall.....Nick's guitars are well respected as are many other great luthiers Rick's buddy Grit Laskin.

No, I was saying as you rightly surmised, that Guild is pretty well the "benchmark" from a factory standpoint. But that's not to say that others have bad 12's, just that across the board, the Guild sound and quality is the baseline.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Guild 12 Strings
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 Jul 00 - 08:49 PM

that's weird...about 3 sentences from that post in the first paragraph are missing. Weren't important, but it sure reads funny without them!!!

Spaw

Subject: RE: Guild 12 Strings
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jul 00 - 09:18 PM

I didnt notice..you talk wierd anyway

Subject: RE: Guild 12 Strings
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jul 00 - 09:19 PM

my cookie keeps getting corrupted.

Subject: RE: Guild 12 Strings
From: Big Mick
Date: 14 Jul 00 - 01:32 AM

Lyn, the price of around $1,000 US is a good deal. Elderly would probably appraise the instrument as you have described at about $1,200. The Guild is the premier 12 string, factory built or otherwise, today. I play a mid '60's vintage 12 and it's action and sound are beyond criticism. The neck on these babies is indeed very heavy. It is what gives them their legendary stability. The Appollonia's and Laskin's described are absolutely wonderful instruments. But the facts are that they do not have a thing on the sound of the Guilds, and very little in terms of playability. I would offer $750 on this one, expecting to get moved up. Anything from a grand down would be a bargain.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: Guild 12 Strings
From: catspaw49
Date: 14 Jul 00 - 05:07 AM

I knew Mick would be here!!! I envisage a batle of the 12's between he and Kendall and.......not a pretty sight. Many deaths.

Mick, I'm glad to see we're close on the price. Lyn, how much is the seller asking?

Spaw

Subject: RE: Guild 12 Strings
From: kendall
Date: 14 Jul 00 - 07:15 AM

Mick..If you ever get to play my Apollonio 12 string, you will make a bird house out of tour Guild. (Kendall throwing the gauntlet with great confidence) Seriously, I would never kick a Guild out on a stormy night.

Subject: RE: Guild 12 Strings
From: Big Mick
Date: 14 Jul 00 - 10:23 AM

Kendall, you are an impeccable gentleman for whom I have great respect. So it is with all love and respect that I tell you that as long as you are down with a bum throat, you might as well git those damn ears fixed too. And if you do you will be able to hear even better than before.....LOL. Now I can forgive you that those clubs you call fingers wouldn't be able to pick the fine nuances of the Guild over the Appollonia construction, but the ears we can fix..........

Actually, I would love to play an Appollonia, as I have heard wonderful things about them. And I will admit that the older I get, the harder it is to hold up that heavy ass Guild for a 3 hour show. :>)

Gauntlet back in your court............a bird house out of my baby........HHHHHHHMMMMMPPPPPHHHHHHHHH

Mick

Subject: RE: Guild 12 Strings
From: bigchuck
Date: 14 Jul 00 - 11:02 AM

FWIW, I recently sold a Guild D-312 for $ 450.00. Values vary a lot from place to place. The necks are heavy because Guild 12's all have two truss rods , one on each side of the neck. They are great factory 12's.

Subject: RE: Guild 12 Strings
From: kendall
Date: 14 Jul 00 - 11:17 AM

well, maybe I exagerated a little.

Subject: RE: Guild 12 Strings
From: catspaw49
Date: 14 Jul 00 - 11:19 AM

Aw nuts..........We had a really good fight building up here too................

Spaw

Subject: RE: Guild 12 Strings
From: kendall
Date: 14 Jul 00 - 07:33 PM

ok punk, dipthongs at 1 paces...

Subject: RE: Guild 12 Strings
From: bbelle
Date: 14 Jul 00 - 07:41 PM

That's gonna be a sight, indeed ... kendall and Mick squaring off!!!

I've never been able to play a Guild ... too big for me ... but I've always liked their sound, when played well.

I thought Mick's Guild was probably a custom-made, small-bodied Guild. That's the way it looked in all the pictures. Then I saw both inperson and realized that the Guild is as huge as I remembered them ... but it was no match for Mick. LOL

moonchild

Subject: RE: Guild 12 Strings
From: kendall
Date: 15 Jul 00 - 08:39 AM

MC, have you ever tried a Taylor? One of their small body models should suite you well

Subject: RE: Guild 12 Strings
From: Terry Allan Hall
Date: 15 Jul 00 - 10:18 AM

Owning both Guild and Taylor 12-strings, I can offer this idea....both are superb instruments.

Subject: RE: Guild 12 Strings
From: BK
Date: 15 Jul 00 - 10:59 AM

The old Gibsons typically had great sound (my Gibson B-25 small body 12 sounds better than my Martin d D size 12-string) but had very wide necks; my middle aged aching fingers complain nowadays abt such things. before I used to just play...

As for price.. In the bigger cities I have typically seen the guild 12's going closer to the $450 mentioned above. Out here in the center of the country a friend was happy to pay me the $400 I had invested in a guild 6 that I really didn't like the sound of, due local prices were astronomically higher; so it depends on the market.

Cheers, & good luck, BK

Subject: RE: Guild 12 Strings
From: Big Mick
Date: 15 Jul 00 - 12:06 PM

Yes, BK, but you must pay attention to the model number.

Subject: RE: Guild 12 Strings
From: catspaw49
Date: 15 Jul 00 - 12:52 PM

guild wass originally started as an alternate,quailty, guitar after the Gibson/Epiphone merger thing and has always maintained a high degree of quality, even after takeovers such as the fender one in '95 or '96. The feel has always been more Gibson than Martin, but over the years they have become distinct themselves. As I said elsewhere, Guild has never had the "panache" in the collector matket.

Another good source for Guild info outside of George Gruhn (who does have a history with Guild), is ....well, I can't remember......but you seem to have all the info you need anyway don't you Lyn? It is Lyn isn't it? Bad memory today........Lyn....right?

Spaw

Subject: RE: Guild 12 Strings
From: BlueJay
Date: 16 Jul 00 - 01:57 AM

Lyn- Sorry, I don't know about that particular model, But from what you've said about playing it, I bet it's a good one. I have an F-112, a slightly more modest instrument, with more of a small concert shape, in fact, the body shape looks identical to my F-47 six string. It looks, sounds and plays great, and I paid 350 dollars from a private party.
I didn't see if your friend is getting this guitar from a private party or a store. I'm guessing private, as it's been on loan. You can usually geet better deals with private parties, in my view.
If I had the money, I'd pay 800 bucks for it without question, from what you've said about it. I think 1000 is probably a little steep, considering the age of the instrument. Unless, as Spaw mentioned, the rarity thing is a big deal.
BTW, I LOVE the Guild necks. The double truss rods on their 12's are really versatile when it comes to set up. Plus, Guild just seems to (usually) make really nicely playable necks in general. I even have a Guild electric bass, and the neck on it is great, too. You can tell by now, I am an unabashed Guild fan, so take it for what you see. A friend of mine has a nice Taylor 12, which is quite superior in many ways to my humble factory model Guild. But she paid well over 2k for it. BlueJay

Subject: RE: Guild 12 Strings
From:
Date: 16 Jul 00 - 03:18 AM

Whew! This has got to be one of the coolest 12 string dialouges I have had the honor to eavesdrop in on. What passion and panache! The prospect a duel with dipthongs turned my stomach into a quivering mass of rasberry jello. But you know folks, the bottom line is beauty is in the eye (or ear)(or hands) of the beholder. Does it look right to your eye, feel right, sound right and will that baby stay in tune for more than a few songs? Does it agree with what's in your wallet? I have two guild 12ers: A 67' f-212 and a 76'sunburst 412. I have retired the 212 because structural mishaps (accidents and sloppy repairs) make it hell to tune, but I love that guitar and the dark overtones of mahogany give eargasms to this chap. The 412 is an absolute monster of sound and stays in tune for an entire set, (maybe two)but the monster description applies to it's looks as well! mid-70's guilds have notoriously sloppy appointments and this one is the worst with completely cock-eyed inlays. The workers at guild in those days may have been nipping at the rat cheese, if yuh catch mah meanin' But..the bottom line with this one is the silken playability and compensated saddle more than make up for fifty pounds of guiar on my shoulder. (not really, but it feels like it sometimes) Before the guilds I had dysfunctional relatioships with a series of Martin 12 strings until the theft of my new 12-35 made the used guild very attractive. I've been a guild guy ever since, although I must admit a rosewood Taylor once very nearly caused me to take all of my guitars in to the store to grovel, whimper and plead. The Apollinos too are fantastic, but again, is it right for you? We are living in great times friends! So many guitars to play and so little time. Get busy! Make some music and be sure to be in tune!

Colin

Subject: RE: Guild 12 Strings
From: kendall
Date: 16 Jul 00 - 04:14 AM

At my most recent wedding, the bride asked me to perform ---ON THE GUITAR SPAW!! and, Nick Apollonio came with one of his 12 strings. He took his out of the case, I took mine out of the case, they were both tuned down to D, and they were in perfect harmony! Never happen again!

Subject: RE: Guild 12 Strings
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Oct 04 - 04:05 PM

Subject: RE: Guild 12 Strings
From: GUEST,Virgin 12-er
Date: 22 Oct 04 - 04:14 PM

30 yrs. ago I almost bought a Guild 12.   30 yrs. I have dreamed of that sound.   Just stumbled upon a 1974 G212.   Anyone know anything about that model? Please edjamacate me! It has a spruce top and mahogany sides.   Sounds so sweet and is the easiest guitar I have ever played.   I could hardly sleep last night, wanting to play it.

Oh by the way, how do I tune?   (Ha, ha)   

OK, but really, how do I tune it.

Subject: RE: Guild 12 Strings
From: GUEST,frankt
Date: 30 Oct 07 - 09:20 AM

I have owned a Guild G212 since 1978.I bought it new in UK for £500.with case.This was undoubtedly the best guitar buy I have ever made. Still sounds and plays great and I have never had to adjust the neck.

Subject: RE: Guild 12 Strings
From: Leadbelly
Date: 30 Oct 07 - 02:03 PM

I bought my F 312-Special in 1970/71. Serial no. 74505. Has a great sound.
Who knows about this version?

Subject: RE: Guild 12 Strings
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 23 Dec 09 - 08:05 AM

I don't know much about Guilds so I can't answer the query above.

However, I'm looking at getting a Guild G212NT, and the seller wants £600 (it comes with a hard-case and a Fishman pickup). I can't afford to pay that but what do you folks think would be a reasonable offer.

I'm thinking £450; £500 at the most.

Subject: RE: Guild 12 Strings
From: Ptero
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 04:44 PM

< I bought my F 312-Special in 1970/71. Serial no. 74505. Has a great sound. Who knows about this version? >

Leadbelly,

I have F-312 #83738 from 1973.
Guild only made 100 or so F-312 models per year, as I remember.
Rosewood sides and back. Spruce top. Not fancy but solid as a rock.
I can't get the sweet, delicate sound that I get from my old Takamine 12-string but I let it age on a stand and have always kept the Guild in its OEM hardcase.
The Guild likes to be played hard and loud. The harder and louder, the better it sounds to me. It seems to like heavier strings. I often snapped the lighter ones so I stick to heavier sets now. But if anyone could give me a tip on how to get a sweeter sound out of it, I'd be grateful.
Don't think I play like a gorilla. :') I use a Roland GS-series synthesizer on the Takamine and it loves the lightest touch possible.

Subject: RE: Guild 12 Strings
From: Ptero
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 05:03 PM

FYI: 12-String Takamine Synthesizer
This is from a live performance I did back in 1988
Be sure to download the file and play it from your hard disk.
(It breaks up when streaming.)
http://www.hydrogencommerce.com/Movies/RM/TheBeach.htm

Subject: RE: Guild 12 Strings
From: scouse
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 04:57 PM

Now, boys an Girls I have hangin' on the wall in the Bedroom A Hofner 12 string which is now over 40 odd years old which I got for my 21st. Birthday.. Maybe if I had some money to spend it would be nice to have it playable again.. Talking of 12 strings always brings back so fond memories.
As Aye,

Phil.

Subject: RE: Guild 12 Strings
From: Stringsinger
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 03:41 PM

Does anyone know who made Pete Seeger's 12 string?

Subject: RE: Guild 12 Strings
From: Brian May
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 03:47 PM

Pete Seeger's 12-string guitar, built by Bruce A. Taylor (219 Godfrey Rd. E., Weston, CT 06883-1405; [e-mail]), is based on instruments that U.K. luthier/engineer Stanley Francis made for Seeger starting in the '50s using a distinctive triangular soundhole and bracing design and a long (nearly 28-inch) scale. All of those guitars eventually collapsed, so Taylor strengthened the bracing in his adaptation. These days, Seeger uses the 12-string mainly for song leading; at home, he plays a Vicente Tatay nylon-string given to him in the late '40s.

That's a quote from a web site rather than MY information