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Bound For Glory versus On The Road

mactheturk 13 Jul 00 - 09:09 PM
tradsteve 13 Jul 00 - 11:40 PM
Rick Fielding 14 Jul 00 - 01:27 AM
Whistle Stop 14 Jul 00 - 08:12 AM
GUEST,Mrr 14 Jul 00 - 10:55 AM
M. Ted (inactive) 14 Jul 00 - 12:16 PM
Easy Rider 14 Jul 00 - 01:40 PM
Jim the Bart 14 Jul 00 - 01:51 PM
bob jr 15 Jul 00 - 02:01 AM
Amergin 15 Jul 00 - 02:46 AM
Callie 15 Jul 00 - 03:10 AM
Amergin 15 Jul 00 - 04:17 AM
Frankham 15 Jul 00 - 11:22 AM
Art Thieme 15 Jul 00 - 12:36 PM
GUEST,Bob Baldwin 15 Jul 00 - 12:46 PM
Susan from California 15 Jul 00 - 01:12 PM
Mike Regenstreif 15 Jul 00 - 01:36 PM
GUEST,Bob Baldwin 15 Jul 00 - 02:03 PM
catspaw49 15 Jul 00 - 02:32 PM
bob jr 16 Jul 00 - 01:41 AM
Callie 16 Jul 00 - 02:01 AM
beachcomber 16 Jul 00 - 04:48 PM
GUEST,bob senior 16 Jul 00 - 04:59 PM
Tiger 16 Jul 00 - 05:03 PM
Art Thieme 16 Jul 00 - 06:08 PM
Lonesome EJ 16 Jul 00 - 06:43 PM
mactheturk 16 Jul 00 - 07:39 PM
bob jr 17 Jul 00 - 12:06 AM
Lonesome EJ 17 Jul 00 - 12:54 AM
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Subject: Bound For Glory versus On The Road
From: mactheturk
Date: 13 Jul 00 - 09:09 PM

Which book had the most influence? How would you compare the two. And who had more to say, the beatnik or the bard?

"Then,if you would really listen, you could actually learn how to live and how to feel".

Mac


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Subject: RE: Bound For Glory versus On The Road
From: tradsteve
Date: 13 Jul 00 - 11:40 PM

"On The Road" had more of an influence on me. Although, Woody influenced me more than Jack. Apples and Oranges


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Subject: RE: Bound For Glory versus On The Road
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 14 Jul 00 - 01:27 AM

Interesting thread Mac. Hope some of our literary folk get in here.

I enjoyed both books, but felt that I had "missed out" on things by being born in the late 40s, rather than the 20s or 30s. Easy Rider had a great affect on me but by then I was drivin' everywhere, and television was providing me with pictures of other parts of North America. Same thing when I hitched all over Europe...I knew I was middle class and could have taken the trains or busses if I'd wanted. My fantasies went into music.

Rick


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Subject: RE: Bound For Glory versus On The Road
From: Whistle Stop
Date: 14 Jul 00 - 08:12 AM

I loved Bound For Glory, but On The Road was lost on me. Like Rick, I guess I'm too young (even younger than him -- I was born in the late 50's).


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Subject: RE: Bound For Glory versus On The Road
From: GUEST,Mrr
Date: 14 Jul 00 - 10:55 AM

I think that in general, bards have the greater influence than those who spread their message through the written word, if only because that way you reach people even if they can't read. Also, songs travel faster than books. This is a kind of Vos Savant answer, using thought rather than knowledge, I know...


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Subject: RE: Bound For Glory versus On The Road
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 14 Jul 00 - 12:16 PM

Don't make us choose! In practical terms, I suppose I would know folk music quite the way that I do, if not for Woody, but I keep going back to Kerouac, and "On the Road was just as interesting to me at 40 as it was at 20, though in different ways.

More people have probably read Jack, though--


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Subject: RE: Bound For Glory versus On The Road
From: Easy Rider
Date: 14 Jul 00 - 01:40 PM

Rick:

Is the "Easy Rider" you refer to the movie or something in Kerouac's book?


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Subject: RE: Bound For Glory versus On The Road
From: Jim the Bart
Date: 14 Jul 00 - 01:51 PM

They're both incredible pictures of their place and time.


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Subject: RE: Bound For Glory versus On The Road
From: bob jr
Date: 15 Jul 00 - 02:01 AM

well bound for glory gave us bob dylan and on the road gave us um ken kesey so i will go with bound for glory cause it had less to do with hippies


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Subject: RE: Bound For Glory versus On The Road
From: Amergin
Date: 15 Jul 00 - 02:46 AM

I will have to go with Bound For Glory myself... On The Road was a good book and all, but I found Bound For Glory to be more powerful in its simplicity.

Amergin


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Subject: RE: Bound For Glory versus On The Road
From: Callie
Date: 15 Jul 00 - 03:10 AM

Yet again, Mudcat has opened a door! I'm not familiar with "Bound for Glory". But if it's as important as "On the Road" why haven't I read it?!!

I was born in the late 60s, but the main thing that got me interested in poetry as a teenager was stumbling across the Beat poets. Jack Kerouac, Allen Ginsberg etc. One of the most influential poems I have ever read was "Moon Over McDougall Street" by John Davidson - about being gay. Not that it challanged my sexual identity - but it gave me my first real insight into the notion of homosexuality, which had not come up in "real" life. It's a wonderful poem. It helped me grow up!

By the way, the poem was in a compilation of beat poetry. I have never seen Davidson's work published elsewhere, and the library from which I borrowed the book burned down years ago.

Back to Kerouac: I read the book as a teenager and thought it was great fun, but even with very murky ideas about gender representation I thought the women got a rough deal and I was a bit uncomfortable with that. i much preferred the poetry because it was more about ideas and didn't necessarily hold one literal meaning.

And then I read "Naked Lunch" and thought I'd discovered the answer to life. And then I forgot it the next morning. (When you're 14, these things mean a lot!)

And years later that kind of lead me to the work of Paul Bowles and I wrote an academic thesis on his work.

Callie


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Subject: RE: Bound For Glory versus On The Road
From: Amergin
Date: 15 Jul 00 - 04:17 AM

Callie, you should really check out Bound For Glory. It's an autobiographical piece written by Woody Guthrie.

Amergin


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Subject: RE: Bound For Glory versus On The Road
From: Frankham
Date: 15 Jul 00 - 11:22 AM

Both books had an antecedent. Jack London. Check out Martin Eden. Revisiting America by boxcar pullman is not a new idea.

Frank


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Subject: RE: Bound For Glory versus On The Road
From: Art Thieme
Date: 15 Jul 00 - 12:36 PM

One book is very literary and philosophical and is still influencing me. I read it evey couple of years and see the real influence the fine writer Thomas Wolfe had on him. He was in actuality a very great writer.

The other book shows how irresponsible a person can be when he is justifying that behavior to himself and creating a fictional biography that did pull in the largest generation in the history of the U.S.A. with a mgnetism that would make an MRI seem weak.

Art Thieme
(who will not post to that other thread but I do wish to say that I define gay as meaning happy)


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Subject: RE: Bound For Glory versus On The Road
From: GUEST,Bob Baldwin
Date: 15 Jul 00 - 12:46 PM

Kerouac, with "On the Road" reached and influenced a hell of lot more people than Woody did with "Bound for Glory." But Woody's greatest gift wasn't his writing. His greatness lay in his ability to stir us with his songs. "This Land is Your Land" has stirred the hearts of almost American now alive.


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Subject: RE: Bound For Glory versus On The Road
From: Susan from California
Date: 15 Jul 00 - 01:12 PM

And I for one am tired of people who leave out verses of "This Land .." A few years ago my husband and I lead a singing of "This Land.." to open a political rally (rather than "The Star Spangled Banner" or "America the Beautiful") and we knew people wouldn't know all the words. We made cue cards out of poster board, and since everybody knows the tune, they followed along reasonably well. It seems like blasphemy to me to just sing the apolitical verses of this song. Wasn't it written as a political song? Why try to take the still valid political commentary out?

Oops, I guess this was thread drift w/out warning, sorry!


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Subject: RE: Bound For Glory versus On The Road
From: Mike Regenstreif
Date: 15 Jul 00 - 01:36 PM

Susan,

Even Woody Guthrie usually left out the two pointedly-political verses of "This Land is Your Land." Of all his recordings of the song, only one that I know of includes one of the political verses. I've never heard a recording of him doing both.

Mike Regenstreif


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Subject: RE: Bound For Glory versus On The Road
From: GUEST,Bob Baldwin
Date: 15 Jul 00 - 02:03 PM

As great as the "political" verses are, they don't really mesh well with the poetry and the wonderful "on the road" imagery of the well-known standard verses. I still like to sing them, though.


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Subject: RE: Bound For Glory versus On The Road
From: catspaw49
Date: 15 Jul 00 - 02:32 PM

For me, I think Art nailed it as closely as it could be. I've been trying to think of how to say something and Art has spoken for me. I think it really is apples and oranges as far as the books go. I don't see anyway you can compare the impact of the two....not even in the same league.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Bound For Glory versus On The Road
From: bob jr
Date: 16 Jul 00 - 01:41 AM

i agree they are not in the same league woody was trying to tell us something about his travels and his times as for kerouacs "automatic writing" as william burroughs once said " theres another word for it ,typing"


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Subject: RE: Bound For Glory versus On The Road
From: Callie
Date: 16 Jul 00 - 02:01 AM

Well - look at some of Burroughs' work. If it wasn't automatic writing it was pretty close. He cut snippets out and threw them into the air and then stuck them together again.

I love Kerouac's "Mexico City Blues"

Callie


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Subject: RE: Bound For Glory versus On The Road
From: beachcomber
Date: 16 Jul 00 - 04:48 PM

Laurie Lee's "Cider with Rosie" and "As I walked out.." must rank along with the best of those type of biographies, surely?


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Subject: RE: Bound For Glory versus On The Road
From: GUEST,bob senior
Date: 16 Jul 00 - 04:59 PM

hey bob jr, it was not william burroughs who said that kerouac's writing was "typing." the person who said that was william f. buckley. quite a difference.

the misinformation that abounds on mudcat is truly astounding.


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Subject: RE: Bound For Glory versus On The Road
From: Tiger
Date: 16 Jul 00 - 05:03 PM

I found Bound For Glory to be extremely labored reading. Woody's style was tough (dialect, etc.). Some of the phrasing was like pouring salt on a wound. But maybe that was his intent.

Ironically, though it's been panned here, I greatly enjoyed the Carradine movie, despite the overacting and miscellaneous inaccuracies.

Sadly, I must admit I've never read Kerouac.


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Subject: RE: Bound For Glory versus On The Road
From: Art Thieme
Date: 16 Jul 00 - 06:08 PM

The movie of "G. of W." sure blew it at the end. Always thought the rest was great. I realize it would've been pushing the envelo0pe of what was acceptable in films then, but the end of the book really hit it on the head saying, "Yeah, we'll do whatever it takes to survive in these insane times."

Art Thieme


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Subject: RE: Bound For Glory versus On The Road
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 16 Jul 00 - 06:43 PM

Bound for Glory was a terrific story of a great man. On the Road, for better or worse, transcended the concept of story, and in the process redefined American fiction.


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Subject: RE: Bound For Glory versus On The Road
From: mactheturk
Date: 16 Jul 00 - 07:39 PM

What Woody Guthrie conveys in his book is insight into the spirit of our country, at as it was felt in the early 40's when the book was written.

A deep appreciation of the country's natural beauty, tough times, struggle and the resiliency of the human spirit. Good stuff to say the least.

Not to mention writing over 1000 songs. Of the two books, a more compassionate message.

Mac


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Subject: RE: Bound For Glory versus On The Road
From: bob jr
Date: 17 Jul 00 - 12:06 AM

ok here is a quote of burroughs on kerouac when asked what is was like to see kerouac change from the vital young man he was into the old alcholic on his mom's couch burroughs said (and this IS a direct quote) "jack kerouac went from being a young man on his mom's couch to an old man on his mom's couch ,he did not change."


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Subject: RE: Bound For Glory versus On The Road
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 17 Jul 00 - 12:54 AM

Are we discussing the relative merit and importance of the two men, or of their literary works? I would say Woody Guthrie had the most impact with his life and work, and certainly neither man was a prime example of responsible behavior. But from the standpoint of creating a literary milestone, I think Kerouac's book stands far above Guthrie's. Which had the most impact on you or on me is purely subjective, and assassinating either man's character is useless.


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