How Ethnically Diverse Are We - Part Two

Subject: How Ethnically Diverse Are We - Part Two
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 Jul 00 - 11:55 PM

Part One was getting quite lengthy and we are still getting really interesting postings from everyone, so...here are some fresh, new pages....

In case you haven't read the other, this is what got the ball rolling:

I was talking to a friend the other day and wondering how much diversity we have among us, as far as ethnic background goes. I don't want anyone to feel uncomfortable. I know we have many who have some Native American heritage. I am wondering what other backgrounds there might be among us.

For anonymity, one can change their cookie, and post just their ethnic background; or, be "out" about it if you are comfortable.

Subject: RE: How Ethnically Diverse Are We - Part Two
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Jul 00 - 12:13 AM

Boringly mainstream, i.e. pinkish grey/greyish pink.

Subject: RE: How Ethnically Diverse Are We - Part Two
From: Callie
Date: 16 Jul 00 - 02:08 AM

Australian, Italian parents. One parent of Sardinian stock which could indicate Arab or Turkish influence. The other parent fair, and from the North of Italy which could indicate Viking influence.

I play a Japanese guitar and a German sax.

Subject: RE: How Ethnically Diverse Are We - Part Two
From: GUEST,junebug
Date: 16 Jul 00 - 02:37 AM

Scottish, Irish, English, French. I come from a long line of white trash and horse thieves. I actually did put "Melungeon" on my census form.

Subject: RE: How Ethnically Diverse Are We - Part Two
From: Escamillo
Date: 16 Jul 00 - 02:52 AM

Only second generation of LatinAmerican, grandparents from L'Orient in France and Madrid in Spain. My wife , daughter of Galizians both. Spain is winning 3 to 1 in my sons. Nickname absolutely Spanish but created by to French artists: Melimée and Georges Bizet.
Un abrazo - Andrés

Subject: RE: How Ethnically Diverse Are We - Part Two
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jul 00 - 08:55 AM

European mongreloid:

Father's father was from extreme northern Italy (pasty pale with jet black hair); father's mother English/German; mother's paternal grandfather from England, maternal grandfather from Scotland; mother's mother English/French. I wound up with pale blue eyes and freckles.

Giac (pronounced "jack" - by the way - not "guy-ak")

Subject: RE: How Ethnically Diverse Are We - Part Two
From: GUEST,Giac, not at home
Date: 16 Jul 00 - 09:27 AM

Sorry, I keep forgetting I'm not where I think I am and that I have to say so.

Nevermind.

Giac, not at home physically or mentally.

Subject: RE: How Ethnically Diverse Are We - Part Two
From: Dulci46
Date: 16 Jul 00 - 10:39 AM

German on my mothers side. Scottish, Indian and Kentuckian on my fathers side.

Subject: RE: How Ethnically Diverse Are We - Part Two
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jul 00 - 12:37 PM

My fathers from Launceston, the gateway to the ancient Celtic kingdom of Cornwall. My mothers from Roscrea in Co Tipperary, her fathers from Leenaun in the far west - in Connemara. I, however, and somewhat boringly , live in Cambridge UK

Ben

Subject: RE: How Ethnically Diverse Are We - Part Two
From: Lena
Date: 17 Jul 00 - 08:16 AM

Born in Italy from Arabic/spanish/jewish roots on one side,probably strictly tuscan(etrusch...?)on the other.Living in Australia with irish/italian sister who,despite not being able to spell two words in my language,seems to be incredibly similar to me(if you consider that if you grow up in Italy you are in a very conservative & moral country a,d if you grow up in Australia...well...I'm still trying to work out the Australian behavioural traits...it could be a new thread...).

the problem is:we all tend to think now that globalization,multiculturalism and "mixed"blood is the right thing for the future and I'm proud of my confused,colourful ethnic heritage but...I was wondering...panic...what about if we're heading to homogenity?! How important is human diversity....?!

Subject: RE: How Ethnically Diverse Are We - Part Two
From: Bagpuss
Date: 17 Jul 00 - 08:30 AM

Im a mix of scottish, irish and northumbrian ancestry, and my dad tells me theres some gypsy blood in there too - his side of the family lived in Appleby - of the famous gypsy horse fairs.

Bagpuss

Subject: P.S.for Callie
From: Lena
Date: 17 Jul 00 - 08:51 AM

P.S.for Callie Your fair haired parents from Northern Italy(the traditional image of the olive skin,black hair,short body and warm voice italian comes from areas which used to be arabic/spanish kingdoms,like southern Italy.And Sardinia,which is a big mystery and was left largely untouched by invasions and mixtures)are probably not of Viking origins,but celtic.That's a very funny thing I still can't believe,but actually the first traks of celtic people are to be found in Northern Italy,a few centuries b.C.Looks like this self determined,tall guys gave many problems to other italian populations .They pushed away Etrusch and buried them in Tuscany and scared latins like hell. Latins drained all their treasures and gave them a huge amount of gold,until finally celts happily headed toward bretons isles. Pre-latin italic and celic language appear to be very close. that explais why so many Breton-celtic melodies sounded familiar to me,like italian lullabies and songs(the little we've left from italian folk heritage.) But hey,isn't it surprising?!

Subject: RE: How Ethnically Diverse Are We - Part Two
From: Tracey Dragonsfriend
Date: 17 Jul 00 - 09:28 AM

Yellowy-browny-pink - mixed English, with Vikings on one side and Gypsies on the other...

Subject: RE: How Ethnically Diverse Are We - Part Two
From: Mrrzy
Date: 17 Jul 00 - 10:33 AM

Am repeating, was buried way down in old thread. Mom Hungarian Jew via Serbia, so "ethnically" Serbian though her parents were "ethnically" Hungarian when it was the Austrohungarian Empire. Father's mom Russian, came to the US "for a visit" as a child right before the Revolution, never got to go home. Father's father descended through a long line of dead men (and one woman - we are a bastard branch of the family) from Huguenot France. Three brothers came here and became Quakers in the early 1700's. Within that line I also have a Cherokee great-great-great-great-grandmother. We have a unique last name - anyone who spells their name the way we do IS a relative somehow...

Subject: RE: How Ethnically Diverse Are We - Part Two
From: Wesley S
Date: 17 Jul 00 - 10:51 AM

My mothers side of the family from North Dakota is Irish and German and my father was Native American { Cree } and French Canadian via Minnesota.

Subject: RE: How Ethnically Diverse Are We - Part Two
From: Mbo
Date: 17 Jul 00 - 11:07 AM

Full 3rd generation Italian on my Mom's side, and German, English & The Duke's Mix on my Dad's side.

--Mbo

Subject: RE: How Ethnically Diverse Are We - Part Two
From: sian, west wales
Date: 17 Jul 00 - 11:10 AM

Father and all his before him - Welsh. Mother's Canadian, of the generation which got stroppy over being able to write *Canadian* on census forms instead of *British*. Her mother was from Surrey and was sent off to Canada as a child by mistake by Barnardo's at the turn of the century. (Weird story) Mum's father's people were Cornish on his father's side and Orange Irish on his mother's.

To answer the second part of the original question (re: taste in music) I've always liked Welsh folk as well as religious music, communal singing, etc. Used to not talk too much about a sly delight in Country and Western ... but I'm *out* now, particularly since a TV producer friend pointed out how many big American CW names are of Welsh extraction ...

sian

Subject: RE: How Ethnically Diverse Are We - Part Two
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 17 Jul 00 - 06:49 PM

Like Mrrzy, I was at the bottom of the old thread, so I'm gonna repeat, too...

"My father's mother's family is French-Canadian, and his father's family is Danish, Dutch, Norwegian, and Walloon, apparently. Oh, and a little bit German.

My mother's father's family is half French-Canadian and half Slovak, more or less. My mother's mother's family is Irish, Scottish, Welsh, and English.

Gets more mixed up the farther back you go... We're s'posed to be descended from Attila on my dad's side, muahaha..."

Didn't notice the question about if our ethnic backgrounds might effect our musical tastes. I guess it might, as I like the folk music of all my ancestral homelands, more or less. But most of the music I listen to is traditional Finnish, Swedish, Central Asian, Mongolian, and Russian and Chinese 'minority' stuff, so who knows. Though some of that might be explained by the old Hunnish blood?

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: How Ethnically Diverse Are We - Part Two
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 17 Jul 00 - 07:25 PM

As far as I know, I'm 3/4 English and 1/4 Irish, by way of Arkansas and Kentucky. A lot of information is missing, so I'm basing that judgment on what their surnames sound like.

I wonder how many people can name all 8 of their great-grandparents, and say where they lived?

When people tell me, "My ancestors came from England" (or whatever) I am often tempted to ask, "Yeah, but where did they come from before THAT?"

People in this hemisphere tend to assume that the slate gets wiped clean when you cross an ocean; that if you know what country your ancestors embarked from, that's all there is to know about who you are. Why should they assume that?

Subject: RE: How Ethnically Diverse Are We - Part Two
From: GUEST,Mbo_at_ECU
Date: 17 Jul 00 - 07:42 PM

Well, I do have a lot of the names written down, but of course I can't pull them off the top of my head. I got too much music in there right now. On my father's side, I only know the Richards have been Pennsylvania coalminers for many generations. They are German, but no one knows any of their past history. The Clarkes & Axoms came from England, but again, no one in the family knows much about it. One day I would like to find out.

On my mother's side, it's all Italian. My maternal grandfathers' parents immigrated to the U.S., and were both originally from a town called Castelvetere Sul Calore, which was established in the year 1000 A.D. by the Longobards (Lombards), and is in the hills outside Naples. As for my maternal grandmother's parents (also immigrants), one parent was from the Abruzzi region, and the other parent was from Calabria, the toe of "the boot" of Italy. I can't remember which one came from where. Don't remember all 4 great-grandparents names...only 2 of them, the Loros and the Liberatis. More stuff I'd like to find out about....

--Mbo

Subject: RE: How Ethnically Diverse Are We - Part Two
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 17 Jul 00 - 07:45 PM

That's a really good point about how many of us don't know our family's history past a generation or so back, Jim. My dad's family is REALLY good about the history part---Some parts go back more than 1000 years. My mom's side, however, is pretty much the opposite. Well. not really the opposite. That would be not knowing where the grandkids are, I suppose. But you get the idea.

I can name... FIVE of my great-grandparents, without looking it up, and can say where all eight lived, and what state/country seven of them were born in. I'd like to leave the USA andreturn to one of my ancestral homelands, by the way. Millenia there, a couple hundred years here... I'd like to go 'home.' Just waiting for one of them to have a 'unambitious (hell, anti-ambitious), unskilled lazy bastard' shortage. ;)

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: How Ethnically Diverse Are We - Part Two
From: Callie
Date: 17 Jul 00 - 08:11 PM

Welcome Lena! Another Italo Australian joins the thread! I look forward to your postings!

Callie

Subject: RE: How Ethnically Diverse Are We - Part Two
From: Sorcha
Date: 17 Jul 00 - 08:17 PM

Interesting point, Jim D. I think it might be because many of the people who crossed oceans were running, hiding, escaping, or convicted criminals. (Also, a lot of names were changed by the immigraton authorities because they could not spell Gaelic or Italian, or what not.) Immigrants often preferred that people on their new continent not know just who they were when they left the Old Home.

Me, I can name 5 GG's, right off, 2 more if I went and looked it up. My dad always said he was Scots/Irish or Black Irish. I don't know for sure, but I ASSUME Co. Kerry because that is where many of the Plantation Scots of Ulster went when they were fed up with being Planted. My mother's name was Brooner, with oomlahs (sp) over both the O's. She said it was a Dutch/Fresian spelling of the German Bruner.

Subject: RE: How Ethnically Diverse Are We - Part Two
From: Tracey Dragonsfriend
Date: 18 Jul 00 - 06:22 AM

I's an "umlaut", I think, maybe spelled with one over the u.

Subject: RE: How Ethnically Diverse Are We - Part Two
From: barrygeo
Date: 18 Jul 00 - 06:43 AM

For What its worth heres my family tree up to the mid 1700's. Using several sources including The Bible, The Annals of Clonmacnoise, O'Hart's Irish Pedigrees and the Web, I have put together a Father - Son Pedigree up to Aodh Buidhe (Hugh Boy). Please treat this with the skepticism it deserves.

Adam Seth Enosh Kenan Mahalel Jared Enoch Methuselah Lanech Noah Japhet Magog Baoth Fenius "the Antiquary" King of Scythia Nial or Niul who was married to Scota, the daughter of Pharaoh Cingris, who drowned in the Red Sea when Moses rejoined the parted waters after the Israelites had made good their escape. Gael Asruth Heber Scot Beman Ogaman Tait Agnon Lamhflonn Heber Glunflonn Agnan Fionn Febric Glas Nenal Nuadhat Alladh Dea Brath Breogan Billius Milesius or Miledh of Esbain, King of Spain, married Scota, daughter of Pharaoh Nectonibus of Egypt and sister in law of King Solomon. She was killed in Ireland fighting with her sons against the Tuatha de Danann. From his name we get the term "Milesians" which was often used to describe the Celts in Ireland. However, his real name was Gallamh. Milesius being more of a nickname, meaning warrior. From Scota we get the terms Scotus and Scotia, early Latin terms for "Irishmen" and "Ireland" (which later became Hibernia). When the Romans looked north across the border from Britain, they observed a land mainly inhabited by the Irish and so it got its modern name - Scotland. It is said that seven sons of Milesius set out to conquer Ireland, but only two survived the conflict. Eremhon Originally claimed the northern half of Ireland as his domain, leaving the southern half for his brother Emher. Emher was ambitious, however, and died trying to take possession of the entire island from Eremhon thus leaving his brother in sole charge, thereby becoming the first High King or Ard Rí and establish his throne at Tara. He gave the province of Ulster to Emhear, son of Ir; Munster to the four sons of EmhearFinn; the province of Connaught to Un and Eadan; and the province of Leinster to Crimhthann Sciathbhel of the Damnonians. Irial Faidh Eithrial Follac Tighearnmas "It was by Tighearnmas also that gold was first smelted in Ireland, in Foithre Airthir Liffe. It was Uchadan, an artificer of the Feara Cualann, that smelted it. It was by him that goblets and brooches were first covered with gold and silver in Ireland. It was by him that clothes were dyed purple, blue, and green. It was in his reign the three black rivers of Ireland burst forth, Fubhna, Torann, and Callann, their names. He died, with the three fourths of the men of Ireland about him, at the meeting of Magh Slecht, in Breifne, at the worshipping of Crom Cruach, which was the chief idol of adoration in Ireland. This happened on the night of Samhain precisely. It was from the genuflections which the men of Ireland made about Tighearnmas here that the plain was named." Eiobiothad Smiorgall Fiacha Labhrainne Aengus Olmucadha Maen Raitheachtaigh Deman Dian Sirna Saeghlach Olioll Olchain Giallchaidh Nuadhat Finnfail Created a formalised legal system, probably the precursor of the Brehon Laws. Devolved power under the High King to provincial chieftains. Instigated the great Festival of Tara at which all the nobility, bards, ollamhs, story tellers, musicians, etc. got together for fun and frolics. Aedhan Glas Simon Breac Murchad Bolgrach Fiacha Tolgrach Duach Ladrach Eochaidh Buadhach Ugaine Mór, married Kesair Cruithach, daughter of the King of France and ruled much of wester Europe as well as Ireland. "This Ugaine was he who exacted oaths, by all the elements visible and invisible, from the men of Ireland in general, that they would never contend for the sovereignty of Ireland with his children or his race." Cobhthach Cael Breagh Melghe Molbhthach Irereo Connla Caemh Oilioll Caisfhiaclach Eochaidh Ailtleathan Eochaidh wore his hair long to cover his deformed ears (he supposedly had the ears of a horse). Once a year he had a haircut, given by a yong boy selected at random, who was afterwards killed to preserve the secret. One year, a particular youth who had been chosen, persuaded the king to spare him, under an oath that he would never reveal the secret to another person. Well, the burdensome secret weighed so heavily on the boy that he fell ill. On the advice of a Druid, he whispered the secret to a willow tree and was thus unburdened. Soon afterwards, the tree was felled to make a new harp for the musician Craftiny. The harp had its first airing at the royal court where it sang the words "Two horse's ears hath Eochaidh of the Long Hair". Once the secret was out, the king was relieved rather than angry and there were no further deaths on account of his ears. Aenghus Tuirmheach Teamhrach Enna Aighneach Lavra Beotact Blatact Esamon Roignen Rua Finlogha Finn Eochaidh Feidhleach Finn Lughaidh Sriabh nDearg Crimhthann Niadhnair (1 A.D.) Fearadhach Finnfeachtnach (15 AD..) Fiacha Finnfolaidh. Created the king's guard known as Na Fianna, about whom many stories were told. Tuathal Teachtmhar Feidhlimidh Rechtmhar Conn of the Hundred Battles (Hight King 123-157 A.D.) Art Cormac Mac Art "The fleet of Cormac sailed across Magh Rein (i.e. across the sea) so that it was on that occasion he obtained the sovereignty of Alba (Scotland)." In 266AD Cormac choked on a salmon bone and died. Cairbre Liffeachair Fiacha Sraibhtine Muireadhach Eochaidh Muighmheadhoin conducted slave raids on Britain during one of which he carried off and married, Carthann Cas Dubh, a princess of the Britons with whom he had a son. Niall Naoigiallach (of the Nine Hostages) took the throne as the 126th High King of Ireland in 379 and reigned until 405 AD. He led many raids on adjacent countries and his habit of taking royal hostages earned him his nickname. His first wife was Inné, mother of his son Fiacha, from who the Geoghegans are descended. He also had seven other sons with his second wife, Roighnech. It was during one of these raids that he reputedly captured the future St. Patrick and brought him to Ireland to be sold as a slave. Patrick, after his escape, saw the people of Ireland calling to him in a dream and, having been ordained a bishop, was sent by Rome, ay his own request, to convert the Irish to Christianity. Fiacha or Fiach who took control of a large tract of land in modern Westmeath and his descendants were known as Cineal Fhiachaigh, anglicised as Kenaleagh or Kenalea and by this name their territory was known until Elizabethan times, when it was made into the Barony of Moycashel.

The following is extracted from O'Hart's Irish Pedigees, a publication known to be strewn with inaccuracies. Therefore I urge the reader to use the information with caution

Tuathal: whose brother Eochaidh was ancestor of Molloy, and brother Uigin, the ancestor of Higgins. Amhailgadh (possibly hence McAuley) Coscrach (possibly hence McCosker) Eochagáin (possibly hence MacEochagain - Geoghegan) Rory Awly (possibly hence McAuley) Giollacolum Creamthann Eochaidh Florence Awly (possibly hence McAuley) Donoch Congal Anluan Coscrach (possibly hence McCosker) Malachi Murtach Congal Cucogar Cucalma Murtach Congal Congal Donoch Congal Murtach Mor Donoch Dermod Aodh Buidhe (see main text above for more modern information)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The above text was compiled by Eddie Geoghegan in September 1997; updated: July 1998, March 1999 and March 2000

The main source document which accounts for the majority of the content is a transcript of a lecture entitled "The Mageoghegans" delivered by Liam Cox NT, Moate, delivered to the Kilbeggan Historical and Archaeological Society, in the Convent of Mercy School, on Friday night, 10th January 1969. Other information was taken from "Irish Families. Their Names, Arms & Origins", by Edward MacLysaght, published by Irish Academic Press, ISBN 0 7165 2364 7 and from "Worthies of Westmeath" by Jeremiah Sheehan, published by the author and Wellbrook Press Ltd. I also added material from my own memory. Such material came from books and other documents I have read which are no longer in my possession. A very small amount of the material came to me in the time honoured Irish way - by word of mouth.

Subject: RE: How Ethnically Diverse Are We - Part Two
From: barrygeo
Date: 18 Jul 00 - 06:47 AM

OOPS! Lost the punctuation - almost unreadable. Sorry