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BS: why Mudcat is not for 'me'

GUEST,me, aka mini-me 17 Jul 00 - 09:38 AM
Bagpuss 17 Jul 00 - 09:46 AM
Ed Pellow 17 Jul 00 - 10:01 AM
Fortunato 17 Jul 00 - 10:12 AM
M. Ted (inactive) 17 Jul 00 - 01:09 PM
Jim Dixon 17 Jul 00 - 03:15 PM
Art Thieme 17 Jul 00 - 06:42 PM
Helen 17 Jul 00 - 07:03 PM
Ebbie 17 Jul 00 - 11:09 PM
catspaw49 17 Jul 00 - 11:11 PM
Ebbie 17 Jul 00 - 11:51 PM
Mudjack 18 Jul 00 - 12:37 AM
katlaughing 18 Jul 00 - 12:43 AM
GUEST,Roger the skiffler 18 Jul 00 - 04:39 AM
GUEST,me, aka mini-me 18 Jul 00 - 07:29 AM
GUEST,andy mööer 18 Jul 00 - 07:53 AM
Richard Bridge 18 Jul 00 - 10:52 AM
catspaw49 18 Jul 00 - 11:03 AM
Ebbie 18 Jul 00 - 11:19 AM
Pseudolus 18 Jul 00 - 12:49 PM
Art Thieme 18 Jul 00 - 01:00 PM
Gary T 18 Jul 00 - 01:57 PM
kendall 18 Jul 00 - 02:06 PM
katlaughing 18 Jul 00 - 02:30 PM
Richard Bridge 18 Jul 00 - 02:43 PM
GUEST 18 Jul 00 - 03:37 PM
MMario 18 Jul 00 - 03:41 PM
Hollowfox 18 Jul 00 - 03:51 PM
Clinton Hammond2 18 Jul 00 - 04:08 PM
Irish sergeant 18 Jul 00 - 07:33 PM
Bill D 18 Jul 00 - 07:46 PM
Art Thieme 18 Jul 00 - 10:14 PM
MMario 18 Jul 00 - 10:18 PM
GUEST,Alistair 18 Jul 00 - 10:58 PM
mariachera 18 Jul 00 - 11:18 PM
mariachera 18 Jul 00 - 11:18 PM

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Subject: why Mudcat is not for 'me'
From: GUEST,me, aka mini-me
Date: 17 Jul 00 - 09:38 AM

yanno, i was going to let this go, but if one does that, the garbage builds up and you're stuck with it.

i am your audience -- the guy in the first row, polite, listening attentively, applauding even when you're not on your best form...

that is my only qualification, i'm the person who keeps your performances from being a style of "intellectual" masturbation.

i've lurked and read, i've participated in discussions. you are, for the most part, clannish, cliqueish and passively hostile and rude.

if this is s'posed to attract members/contributors they (and you) must be incredibly stupid.

there, i feel better now, i've given the collection of trash back to you.

peace upon you and all you love.


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Subject: RE: BS: why Mudcat is not for 'me'
From: Bagpuss
Date: 17 Jul 00 - 09:46 AM

There are always going to be rude people, wherever you go - and differences of tone etc. But as a newcomer myself, I have found the vast majority of people here really friendly, genuine and helpful.

Thats why mudcat *is* for me - for the moment anyway.

Bagpuss


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Subject: RE: BS: why Mudcat is not for 'me'
From: Ed Pellow
Date: 17 Jul 00 - 10:01 AM

Guest,

I'm sorry you feel this way, but calling the people here "incredibly stupid" isn't likely to endear you to anyone.

Yes, there are 'in-jokes', yes some people are rude, but as Bagpuss says, the vast majority of people here are very friendly and helpful.

Think of it as joining any existing group of friends - take time to get to know people, and don't expect people to understand you straight away.

Follow this advice for a bit, and you'll make some great friends. If you choose to walk straight out - we won't miss you: because we don't know you...

Ed


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Subject: RE: BS: why Mudcat is not for 'me'
From: Fortunato
Date: 17 Jul 00 - 10:12 AM

Mini-me,

You are not entirely wrong in your summation of the site. I find much of that at different times, and I may be guilty of some of it. But I check in most days and see if there are topics that interest me or about which I might make a contribution of some value (or so I think). Many times there's nothing here for me. And when I encounter the sort of garbage you are reacting to, I usually just turn away. If there's nothing here of value for you then, then so long, good luck. If you never return I believe we will have been diminished, but I wish you well.

Fortunato


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Subject: RE: BS: why Mudcat is not for 'me'
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 17 Jul 00 - 01:09 PM

I have know idea why anyone would sit in the front row to listen to anything that they didn't find interesting--doesn't sound like much fun--


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Subject: RE: BS: why Mudcat is not for 'me'
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 17 Jul 00 - 03:15 PM

Mini-me: Sorry you feel this way. Since you took the trouble to describe your vantage point, I will describe mine: I, too, am an audience member, but perhaps a bit more involved than the average "audient." I am not a musician. I have never performed for money. I sing occasionally, among friends, in a group convened especially for singing, and once at an "open mike." I can't read music. My wife is a semi-professional musician. (She still has a day job, but she gets paid for performing.) She has produced a couple of CD's. Because of her, I know a few things about the joys and frustrations of being a musician.

I suppose this would give Mudcatters an excuse to treat me as an outsider-that's assuming most of them are musicians, but I honestly have no idea whether that's true or not-but in fact they haven't done so. Occasionally I have been stung by someone's sarcastic reply to my opinions, but I don't feel that Mudcatters are, on the whole, rude.

Part of the problem may be inherent with any Internet forum. We can't see one another's faces, we can't hear a tone of voice, and we are not all masters of rhetoric, so it's easy to misinterpret someone's intent. To give you an example: At first I thought you were replying to someone named "Yanno" and I even searched for that name in the forum, and didn't find it. Then it occurred to me that "yanno" might mean "you know." Now, I don't take offense at being misled in this case, but perhaps it can help you see how an inadvertent remark could result in someone taking offense.

Beyond that, I don't know how to help.


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Subject: RE: BS: why Mudcat is not for 'me'
From: Art Thieme
Date: 17 Jul 00 - 06:42 PM

Love it or leave it ?

It might be good to keep in mind that when the Okies left Oklahoma in the 20s and 30s and went to California, they raised the I.Q. of both places.

Art Thieme


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Subject: RE: BS: why Mudcat is not for 'me'
From: Helen
Date: 17 Jul 00 - 07:03 PM

mini-me,

I think you are seeing the Mudcat Forum as a source of passive entertainment. You sit in the front row, you applaud if you like what you see & hear, you boo and hiss if you don't.

We aren't making conversation for the benefit of an audience. We are making conversation *with* each other. If someone were to video tape your conversations with your friends and colleagues and then critique them and say it's not "entertaining" enough, or people shouldn't be making comments which upset other people i.e. they shouldn't be allowed to be themselves, then the whole tone of conversations would become artificial and eventually totally meaningless.

My suggestion, made in the nicest, friendliest and most inclusive way, is for you to get up out of the front row and join us, become a part of the conversations. Walk away from the ones you don't like, or have no interest in, actively seek out the ones you do like, and be a part of them, talk with us, share your knowledge, experience, attitudes, values, personality, etc. We welcome you with open arms, even if you are too shy to speak up right away, but we cannot *play* to an audience when we are just trying to be ourselves: the good, the bad & the ugly, the funny, the tetchy, the loving & caring, the sweetness & light, the sad, the happy, the scared .... you name it, it's all here.

So - a warm welcome, and please hang around and get to know us and let us get to know you better.

Helen


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Subject: RE: BS: why Mudcat is not for 'me'
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Jul 00 - 11:09 PM

Well spoken, Helen! I can't imagine anyone able to resist that welcome.

Ebbie


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Subject: RE: BS: why Mudcat is not for 'me'
From: catspaw49
Date: 17 Jul 00 - 11:11 PM

Its true Ebbie........I've never been able to resist Helen!!!

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: why Mudcat is not for 'me'
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Jul 00 - 11:51 PM

Hahahahah, 'Spaw...(??)(That's meant to signify a double-take)

Ebbie


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Subject: RE: BS: why Mudcat is not for 'me'
From: Mudjack
Date: 18 Jul 00 - 12:37 AM

I like the part about intellectual masterbation....Are you sure you are not destined to be a Mudcat Regular? Quit beating your brains out and try to have some fun. When it gets frustrating...Go somewhere else for fun.
I have to agree with most of your post Mr/Ms Mini-me.
Mudjack, the irregular Mudder, who post less and enjoy more.


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Subject: RE: BS: why Mudcat is not for 'me'
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Jul 00 - 12:43 AM

Helen, that is the best invite and explanation I've ever read on here! Thanks!


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Subject: RE: BS: why Mudcat is not for 'me'
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 18 Jul 00 - 04:39 AM

It would be a strange place with so many people posting if we all agreed 100% with each other. I enjoy a lot of the humour, information and anecdotes here, even though I don't perform or play anything (the kazoo and my drunken singing don't count as music). I can even forgive Art for putting down Lonnie Donegan without flouncing off in a huff (as long as Art keeps the puns and anecdotes coming, I can forgive him anything). There are threads that I ignore and I don't feel I have to try to convert everyone who differs with me to share my opinions. The music is a common link, but, like most group of acquaintances, we get more and more interested in other aspects of each others lives. A couple of years ago we were admitting to where we lived, what our ages were and what size T-shirt we wanted. No-one has to respond, or even read such threads, but those who wanted to share, could.
Sorry, to be serious for a change, but you're all probably heartily sick of my stale jokes by now.
RtS


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Subject: RE: BS: why Mudcat is not for 'me'
From: GUEST,me, aka mini-me
Date: 18 Jul 00 - 07:29 AM

i've followed this thread with interest, i started it after all. just to be more precise:

as an "audience": i'm the guy at your realtime gigs, i don't play, i listen, enjoy, applaude, sing along.

as to "get to know us": been here 16 months, i know you.

Mudcat is no better/worse than any other place in this interesting world, a moderately large sack of shit with gems of various sizes scattered throughout. whether i would be one of the turds or one of the gems will remain an unanswered question. Sturgeon's Law applies to everything.

the responses have simply confirmed what i've come to know about this place, and frankly, the crap to gold ratio is too far to the side of crap, sorry. this is a situation ALL of us have created.

i've seen thread after thread about rudeness, malice and so on. did you ever wonder about YOUR part in this? if you do not speak on what you know to be wrong, if you do not act to restore balance, YOU ARE TO BLAME, too.

to those of you who listened, answered mildly, even apologized... thank you. it reminds me of the gems hidden by the nonsense. please keep faith with that, and with yourselves. remember always that sanity and right are not statistical.

as to the rest of you... one of you said "love it or leave it"...

the correct position is "love it and nuture it"

but to those who feel they're right in their malice, who feel so sure that because they are part of a majority...

listen, thou, for i speak sooth... there is nothing that can be done or said to you that is WORSE than the lives you lead, you are better off dead, so you are allowed to live out the lives of punishment you've made for yourselves.

shine on, gemstones, peace upon thee and those you love

for myself, i've chosen "leave it"


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Subject: RE: BS: why Mudcat is not for 'me'
From: GUEST,andy mööer
Date: 18 Jul 00 - 07:53 AM

The mudcat is a community of people who share an appreciation for music.There's no 'inside circle' we're all just having continous conversation. The only things that I findtruly offensive on the mudcat are comments like guests.


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Subject: RE: BS: why Mudcat is not for 'me'
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Jul 00 - 10:52 AM

Anyone remember the fairy tale about the three billy-goats Gruff and the troll?


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Subject: RE: BS: why Mudcat is not for 'me'
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Jul 00 - 11:03 AM

Not enough of us Richard........

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: why Mudcat is not for 'me'
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Jul 00 - 11:19 AM

'Bye, Guest, me, aka mini-me.


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Subject: RE: BS: why Mudcat is not for 'me'
From: Pseudolus
Date: 18 Jul 00 - 12:49 PM

The true heart of this Community does not become evident in the day to day threads or even the garbage threads. I'm very new here but it seems to me that the real Mudcat comes out when someone is in need. Whether it be something relatively unimportant like a lyrics request or a real life event that has them in need of some kind words. When that happens, the kind words flow from far and wide. How often do you read, "We don't always agree, but I appreciate your opinion and I wish you the best" or something to that effect? It seems to me that folks that have been coming here for a long time appreciate that and when a garbage thread (a thread who's only purpose is to incite) comes around, the protective nature of those folks shines through. Then, in the end, the original poster of the thread (as in this one) is told that they are welcome to stay and will in fact be missed if they go!! If this kind of treatment is not for you, fine, I'm too new around here to be the only one typing Good Riddance.....although I've mumbled it a few times.... In any case, if I stay around long enough, the ability to say, "You're welcome to stay and you'll be missed if you go" will rub off. I certainly hope so!

Frank


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Subject: RE: BS: why Mudcat is not for 'me'
From: Art Thieme
Date: 18 Jul 00 - 01:00 PM

Guys and gals,

Once again, I was using a thread topic to tell a joke and it was taken completely as some bad semantic act on my part. Hell, I told that "Okie moving to California" joke on stage for years. It was supposed to be F-U-N-N-Y. Then it WAS funny. Now, in these p.c. (personal computer) days, nothing is funny in cyberspace. I ought to know by now that if you don't have a sense of humor, IT ISN'T FUNNY. (There---another joke.) Jokes are good. They keep me from taking many of you seriously. (They keep me from taking myself too seriously.)They can thaw things --- and then break the ice. As some folks leave to go elsewhere, it feels as though I'm taking the KREL MIND BOOST (from the film Forbidden Planet) as the degrees of I.Q. (means I quit) transfer and rebalance themselves.

This is meant to be humorous!

Love to ALL,

Art


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Subject: RE: BS: why Mudcat is not for 'me'
From: Gary T
Date: 18 Jul 00 - 01:57 PM

I thought it was quite funny, Art, even in cyberspace.


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Subject: RE: BS: why Mudcat is not for 'me'
From: kendall
Date: 18 Jul 00 - 02:06 PM

it's been funny every time I tell it.. Yes, I remember the Billy goats Gruff. And Forbidden Planet was always one of my favorite sci-fi flicks. Monsters from the Id, thats where they all originate..right?


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Subject: RE: BS: why Mudcat is not for 'me'
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Jul 00 - 02:30 PM

I have an original edition, hardback of Billy Goats Gruff...was always begging my grandma to read it.

Thought it'd gone over the tops of our 'eads, didja, Art?**BG** Your delivery is priceless, timing perfect, even as Gary T. says, "in cyberspace."


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Subject: RE: BS: why Mudcat is not for 'me'
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Jul 00 - 02:43 PM

I do work here in the UK for owners of rights in some of those wonderful - so bad the're good - movies. A prime indictment of the crazy US copyright system, in many cases.

But I did wonder if the story about Okies was in fact about Mendelian genetics. DIdn't that turn up in a Harry Harrison SF book? Was it "Captive Universe"?


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Subject: RE: BS: why Mudcat is not for 'me'
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jul 00 - 03:37 PM

can someone please explain the last few messages here please. i don't understand what you're talking about. thank you


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Subject: RE: BS: why Mudcat is not for 'me'
From: MMario
Date: 18 Jul 00 - 03:41 PM

we -- or rather --*I* rareley understand anything. Sorry, can't explain.


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Subject: RE: BS: why Mudcat is not for 'me'
From: Hollowfox
Date: 18 Jul 00 - 03:51 PM

To me/mini-me: So what's your point? If you're not enjoying the site, find one that you do enjoy. To Guest: those past few postings were a side conversation on science fiction movies and books.


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Subject: RE: BS: why Mudcat is not for 'me'
From: Clinton Hammond2
Date: 18 Jul 00 - 04:08 PM

Wholy Crap!

I could waste my entire life posting to places on the net that 'are not for me'!!! Why bother?!?!?!?!

Find something you do like and stick with it, and leave the stuff you don't like to the people who do...

No??



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Subject: RE: BS: why Mudcat is not for 'me'
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 18 Jul 00 - 07:33 PM

Mini Me: It is a shame that it took sixteen months for you to discover all the faults you say there are with Mudcat. I don't indulge in flaming nor do I consider myself some sort of elitist snob (Despise those with elitist pretensions actually) I have found most of the people who post to mudcat and belong to be intelligent well-reasoned caring and considerate people. Since it is obvious you are not happy here, please find a site that suits you. While some of your comments have merit, i believe you'll find the same sort of thing in any site where more than two people indulging in mutual mental masturbation are involved. I found many of your comments to be just as rude and offensive as the people you are complaining about. Still, stay or go, I wish you the best. However, I believe if you are going to carp about the level of trash on this site, kindly check your ego and trash masher at the door. Kindest reguards, Neil


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Subject: RE: BS: why Mudcat is not for 'me'
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Jul 00 - 07:46 PM

,,,,shucks, if I only hang out where the ratio of gems to crap is really high, I will spend most of my time standing on a soapbox in fron of a mirror, telling MYSELF stories and jokes...;.)

the thing is...in the Mudcat Cafe, the gems are SO good that I personally will wade thru a lot of crap to get to 'em!


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Subject: RE: BS: why Mudcat is not for 'me'
From: Art Thieme
Date: 18 Jul 00 - 10:14 PM

Gems, alas, what are they actually?

Gordon Bok used to do a recitation of a poem by Ruth Moore called, "Charlie And The Herring Ware". Charlie, who has drunk a bit too much, sees diamonds on the ground as he is going off to a big adventure with a mermaid and a sea serpent. Coming home later a bit more sober, he looks for those diamonds he'd seen previously.

The verse by Ms. Ruth Moore went something like:

But he didn't find 'em,
Not one gem,
Just 3 little owl dungs,
With the frost on them.

(And that ends the poem.)

Art Thieme


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Subject: RE: BS: why Mudcat is not for 'me'
From: MMario
Date: 18 Jul 00 - 10:18 PM

it all in perception


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Subject: RE: BS: why Mudcat is not for 'me'
From: GUEST,Alistair
Date: 18 Jul 00 - 10:58 PM

Oh mini-me! Get off that pesimistic, slightly patronising, pseudo-nihilist high horse. The only sack of shit around here is you. These are real people and have a right to their own opinions, and the right to express them in the forum of their choice. I never agree with everybody, and not everybody agrees with me. I also don´t find everything that everybody says interesting, as I am also sure that not everybody finds everything I say interesting. Actually I find YOU not very interesting, so I´ll leave my reply as it is...


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Subject: RE: BS: why Mudcat is not for 'me'
From: mariachera
Date: 18 Jul 00 - 11:18 PM

I'm not really a "folkie". I"m into Mexican, mostly mariachi. However, I've found things to add to this site, I"ve asked for help and receive great advice and great consideration. I check the site out with great regularity because as a musician I can always find something enlightening. And, I love the verbal exchanges between the mudcatters who have known each other for a while. Love, the arguments, love the mutual respect. I"ll keep evesdropping.


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Subject: RE: BS: why Mudcat is not for 'me'
From: mariachera
Date: 18 Jul 00 - 11:18 PM

I'm not really a "folkie". I"m into Mexican, mostly mariachi. However, I've found things to add to this site, I"ve asked for help and receive great advice and great consideration. I check the site out with great regularity because as a musician I can always find something enlightening. And, I love the verbal exchanges between the mudcatters who have known each other for a while. Love, the arguments, love the mutual respect. I"ll keep evesdropping.


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Mudcat time: 21 October 9:56 AM EDT

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