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BS: Mudcat Quiz #2
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Subject: Mudcat Quiz #2 From: IanC Date: 21 Jul 00 - 05:01 AM Due to the tremendous response to my last quiz, here's another in a similar vein. Last time, you got more or less everything in 24 hours. Can you beat that? Here it is. Mudcat Quiz #2 1. What song, published by Henry Such in 1828, may have been the best selling broadside ever - selling over 1 million copies? Does it exist in the oral tradition? Has it ever been recorded? 2. What kind of dance is George Tremayne associated with, and what instrument did he play? 3. A hymn, based on a poem written by an American poet and early campaigner against slavery, was voted No. 3 in the BBC (UK) "Songs of Praise" poll in 1985 and is very popular in the United States. Who was the poet, what is the hymn called, and why might he have been horrified at the idea that it is sung in churches? 4. The "Scottish Students' Songbook" was originally published in 1891. What might appear particularly strange about it to the modern reader? 5. How did yodelling originate? Where is it most popular and why might this be? 6. The star of the 1946 film, "Hear my Banjo Play" is well known to all of us. How did he learn to play the guitar? 7. What is the musical range of the "Whittle" and what are its main peculiarities as an instrument? 8. How do the Australian and New Zealand versions of "The Black Velvet Band" differ? Why might this be? 9. Who was Aimee Macpherson, and what did she do that was worthy of a song? 10. What set of tunes, said to have been written by an English monarch, shares a name with a traditional song? What is the set used for?
Cheers!
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Quiz #2 From: Bagpuss Date: 21 Jul 00 - 06:03 AM 10: Greensleves? 5: Yodelling began as a form of communication in the mountains of Austria etc. To enable them to contact eachother over distance. Bagpuss |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Quiz #2 From: IanC Date: 21 Jul 00 - 10:12 AM OK, but which monarch and what for? What about Aimee MacPherson? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Quiz #2 From: Bagpuss Date: 21 Jul 00 - 10:29 AM Henry VIII, no idea what for. Bagpuss |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Quiz #2 From: Jeri Date: 21 Jul 00 - 10:54 AM Aimee Semple MacPherson was an evangelist who got caught in a scandalous affair after claiming she'd been kidnapped. The Ballad of Aimee McPherson |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Quiz #2 From: Patrish(inactive) Date: 21 Jul 00 - 11:13 AM 1 Franklin and his ships crew? 6 The star is Pete Seeger, but I dont know how learned thr guitar Patrish |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Quiz #2 From: Patrish(inactive) Date: 21 Jul 00 - 11:51 AM I have had a good search and the only item I could find that linked a whittle with music was this "Precious Moments Whittle Musical Nightlight - Plays "Come Let Us Adore Him" So thats its range and its main peculiarity is that it plays itself Patrish |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Quiz #2 From: IanC Date: 21 Jul 00 - 11:57 AM Patrish Clue on the Whittle. It's often accompanied by a "Dub". Both also have more familiar names. Coming on with Pete Seeger (did you see the film??!) but Franklin's way off the mark. Think of murder (always a best seller).
Cheers! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Quiz #2 From: Ringer Date: 21 Jul 00 - 12:37 PM Whittle & dub = (one-handed) pipe & tabor. About range, I don't know. About 1 octave? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Quiz #2 From: GUEST,Chocolate Pi at work Date: 21 Jul 00 - 01:24 PM Amy (Semple) Macpherson also appears in various songs because she makes a good rhyme with Shirley Temple, as in "Hooray for Hollywood" and others of that ilk. Chocolate Pi (who just cleaned out three jars full of a mix of agar and mold) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Quiz #2 From: Peter T. Date: 21 Jul 00 - 03:09 PM 3. "Battle Hymn of the Republic" ("John Brown's Body") by Julia Ward Howe, antislavery camapigner, but why she would object to it being sung in churches is a mystery. 8. The American version is a Blue Velvet Band. yours, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Quiz #2 From: IanC Date: 21 Jul 00 - 04:45 PM Peter T Miles out on 3. Pennsylvania would be much nearer. Also Repton School (UK). 5. Yes, but that was composed in the 1920s and isn't really related to BvB! Nobody know about George Tremayne or Pete Seeger's guitar?
!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Quiz #2 From: MartinRyan Date: 21 Jul 00 - 05:53 PM 1. Can't be Franklin - much later. 4. Expecting students to read music, sing in parts and keep it clean? I actually have a copy (1938 reprint) of the book - can't say I've ever sung anything from it, mind you. Regards |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Quiz #2 From: Sorcha Date: 21 Jul 00 - 05:56 PM Arrrrrrgggggggghhhhhh!! Maybe Henry's "Pastime in Good Compangie? (Company) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Quiz #2 From: MartinRyan Date: 21 Jul 00 - 06:03 PM 3. Amazing Grace? Regards |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Quiz #2 From: MartinRyan Date: 21 Jul 00 - 06:20 PM 7. Nice article on whittle and dub HERE Regards |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Quiz #2 From: Bill D Date: 22 Jul 00 - 12:38 AM the Scottish Students songbook sure had a lot of songs that weren't Scottish |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Quiz #2 From: MartinRyan Date: 22 Jul 00 - 03:57 AM ...and none of the editors were students...! Help! We're clutching at straws here! Regards |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Quiz #2 From: gillymor Date: 22 Jul 00 - 08:02 AM 5. Actually there's a song concerning the origin of the yodel and I think it involved a cowboy being thrown from a bronc and landing on a cactus. Might be apocryphal. 6. Did Pete learn 12 string from, or by watching, Leadbelly? Frankie |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Quiz #2 From: Jeri Date: 22 Jul 00 - 09:29 AM If someone doesn't take a stab at #1 soon, I'm gonna scream. There's something rattling around in my brain (may be one of those marbles I can't find) that indicates I should know the answer... Henry Such was maybe a pseudonym for someone well-known? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Quiz #2 From: Mbo Date: 22 Jul 00 - 09:34 AM Hey, that's pretty funny, Chocolate Pi! Shirley Temple was married to John Agar! From "Return of The Creature" and "The Mole People" fame. Or as MST3K put it "Hello, I'm John Agar, the pompous-ass!" All he did was marry her for her moolah....oops thread drift... --Matt |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Quiz #2 From: MartinRyan Date: 22 Jul 00 - 10:35 AM 1. Presumably an execution "goodnight ballad". Sam Hall is the most obvious one - but I doubt it's right. Regards |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Quiz #2 From: GUEST Date: 22 Jul 00 - 10:50 AM Well, Elizabeth Cotton was housekeeper for the Seegers (Pete, Mike, Peggy, etc.), right?? One would think he learned a bit from her, although she played upside down and backwards (left-handed on a right-handed guitar).
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Quiz #2 From: Mike Regenstreif Date: 22 Jul 00 - 11:07 AM Pete Seeger was already grown up and gone from the family home by the time Elizbeth Cotten worked for the Seegers. Mike Regenstreif |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Quiz #2 From: Peter K (Fionn) Date: 23 Jul 00 - 07:58 AM I know Franklin's been ruled out for 1, but I think MartinRyan is a bit out in saying the dates don't fit. Franklin embarked on his second polar expedition to the mouth of the McKenzie (vastly more successful than his first) in 1825 and returned to a hero's welcome in New York (only two seamen lost, both in accidents I believe) in 1827 or 28. OK, so this is not a very constructive contribution. I just wanted to bring the thread back up the list in the hope that someone will come up with the answers. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Quiz #2 From: IanC Date: 23 Jul 00 - 11:23 AM Hi! Scottish students are doing quite well. Not too many Scottish songs, though I'm told it was well used. #1 could be to do with a man named Corder, but Such wasn't a pseudonym as far as I know. I heard an interview with Pete Seeger where he said he was taught the guitar upside down so that one's probably pretty well wrapped up. Still no news of George Tremayne, though. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Quiz #2 From: Jeri Date: 23 Jul 00 - 12:45 PM #1...BINGO!!! - The Murder of Maria Martin, although there's no reference to an author. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Quiz #2 From: MartinRyan Date: 23 Jul 00 - 06:17 PM Fionn Sorry if that was confusing! The only song I know about Franklin is the usual "Lady Franklin's Lament" - written after his death. Coincidentally, I've recently been reading his own account of the early expeditions. Very interesting - and a lot less dry than I expected from an RN officer! Regards p.s. Ian: No. 3? Not "Amazing Grace"? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Quiz #2 From: IanC Date: 24 Jul 00 - 05:11 AM Martyn Sorry #3 isn't Amazing Grace (written by an english slaver). Think more of silence. Nothing for #2 and #8 yet! also some of the follow-ups look a bit thin. Who was George Tremayne anyway? He's linked with Boosbeck, Yorkshire. Taking you all much longer than last time!!!
Cheers! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Quiz #2 From: GUEST Date: 24 Jul 00 - 02:56 PM The answer to #1 is NONE, since Henry Such didn't starting printing ballads until 1849. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Quiz #2 From: Kim C Date: 24 Jul 00 - 03:24 PM Dang, I don't know any of these, except Aimee McPherson, and somebody already answered that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Quiz #2 From: SINSULL Date: 24 Jul 00 - 03:39 PM #3 Silent Night? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Quiz #2 From: IanC Date: 24 Jul 00 - 03:49 PM Sorry folks. Didi not notice the (?!?) deliberate mistake. #1 was, of course published by James Catnach of 7 dials. More details of the Aimee MacPherson debacle would be welcome!!! #3 3rd clue (thought this was the easy one!) think Pennsylvania, think silence, think Quaker ... any help?
Cheers! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Quiz #2 From: SINSULL Date: 24 Jul 00 - 04:10 PM #3'Tis a Gift to Be Simple"? Having no clue, I choose to rattle off answers much like son in 3rd grade math. 2X4= a resounding 21. The only Tremayne I can find is a football player. Did he invent that little dance they do when they get a touchdown? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Quiz #2 From: SINSULL Date: 24 Jul 00 - 05:03 PM #8 Irish version - the singer is caught up in a theft by a pretty girl and sent to Australia for his crime. New Zealand version - indentureds servant promises to work and save to come back to his lady love. "In most other countries, "The Black Velvet Band" is a transportation ballad. In New Zealand, however, which never experienced transportation, it was adapted to fit this gentler (if perhaps less exciting) lyric. Found this on a site called Mudcat Cafe so it must be correct.
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Quiz #2 From: GUEST,Burke Date: 24 Jul 00 - 05:43 PM 1. Sweet Home http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/amsshtml/amsshome.html 3. John Greenleaf Whittier? Maybe Dear Lord and Saviour of Mankind. From CyberHymnal: Whittier is known as America's "Quaker poet"; his works include The Panorama, and other Poems, 1856. He also wrote almost 100 hymns. (No horror at all) 4. Printed using tonic sol-fa instead of dots?
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Quiz #2 From: Jeri Date: 24 Jul 00 - 07:02 PM From Time Magazine:
AIMEE SEMPLE MACPHERSON The Canadian-born preacher and healer was a proponent of evangelical entertainment, dramatizing her sermons with costumes and band music. After an itinerant but charismatic ministry, she settled in Los Angeles in 1918 and was hugely successful teaching her Foursquare Gospel of Christ as savior, healer, baptizer and coming king. Offerings paid for the $1.5 million, 5,200-seat Temple Angelus and a lavish life-style. In 1926 she plunged into scandal after police said her self-described kidnapping was really a lovers' tryst. She died in 1944 after an accidental overdose of sleeping pills. Her denomination now has almost 3 million members and 24,000 churches and missions I still don't have a clue about #3, but "Simple Gifts" was a Shaker song. The Quakers believe in silent worship, which would explain why the author would be horrified it's sung in churches. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Quiz #2 From: IanC Date: 25 Jul 00 - 06:33 AM Dearl Lord & Father was right for #3. Still haven't got George Tremayne though! Any more tries? Answers later today
Cheers! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Quiz #2 From: Peter K (Fionn) Date: 25 Jul 00 - 07:31 AM I saw a snippet recently to the effect that Aimee's church is now tearing itself apart and that the maintenance and future of the Temple Angelus is becoming a cause for concern. Could any LA or Canadian Catter point me to more info, perhaps by personal message? (Apologies for the thread creep Ian, but at least I'm helping keep the thread up there near the top!) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Quiz #2 From: IanC Date: 25 Jul 00 - 02:22 PM Well done folks. Time for a summary. Again, I'm not really willing to die for these answers (especially as I got some of the questions wrong). They're just "the truth as I know it". Let me know if I'm desperately wrong (but please give me some information as to why). Here we go 1. With deepest apologies to any James Catnach fans out there. He got his broadside version of The Red Barn Murder (or the Confession of William Corder) out in good time for the usual execution "confession". However, he didn't expect it to be quite such a bestseller. It was widely copied by other ballad publishers and went into the oral tradition. There appears to be only one version collected as far as I know but Vaughan Williams, probably the main 19th Century folk song collector in East Anglia, was not interested in versions of broadsides so would not have cared to collect it. It has been recorded by Shirley Collins, who turned the first few verses around for dramatic effect. 2. George Tremayne was the celebrated musician for the Boosbeck Long Sword dance team. He recorded the music for the dance ("The Oyster Girl" and "Lass of Dallogill") on a 78 in the 1930s. He played a one-row melodeon with a style which is unusual in that it includes many two- and three- button harmonies. 3. The last six verses of John Greenleaf Whittier's poem "The Brewing of Soma" was adapted by William Garrett Horder as "Dear Lord and Father of Mankind" to be included in his Congregational Hymns (1884). Whittier, a quietist Quaker, had a strong dislike of singing in worship, so it is somewhat ironic that his poems have been adapted to make over 50 hymns. "The Brewing of Soma" is a critical likening of the use of music, ceremonial etc. in Christian worship with pagan rituals so it is particularly ironic that this was made into a hymn. 4. The Scottish Students' Songbook has relatively few Scottish songs. It has a diverse range of songs regarded (by the students as well as the publishers) as suitable for singing by students at Scottish universities including such old Scottish favourites as "God Save The Queen" and "Hearts of Oak". 5. I had hoped for more information from you here. As far as I'm aware, yodelling evolved as a means of communication between people who lived in mountainous regions where close contact and. therefore, conversation, was difficult. It appears to be traditional in Austria, Switzerland and some mountainous regions of the USA. The use of yodelling in music seems to be down to "Cowboy" styles in the USA. I'd like to know more. 6. Pete Seeger was the man and I'm sure that I heard an interview with him where he described how he learned to play the guitar upside downfrom Elizabeth Cotton. Now you have made me doubt myself on this one, so I'd like some more information if anyone can help. 7. The Whittle is a 3-holed whistle used with the "Dub" for providing both melody and rhythm for dancing. It is still widely used in the English morris tradition. Its advantage is that it is one of the few single-handed melodic instruments, allowing another instrument to be played with the other hand. Its range is usually regarded as one octave, being played with 1, 2 and 3 overblows but not in the bottom register. The disadvantage is that is gets very squeaky and loud in the top register. Definitely an outdoor instrument. 8. The New Zealand version of "The Black Velvet Band" is a love ballad, rather than one of decline into crime and subsequent transportation. Up until the '60s, the song was probably more popular in Australia than anywhere else. It was originally written (about 1840) as a broadside ballad, based in Barking, England. The common "Irish" version which we all know was learned by The Dubliners from Seeger & MacColl's "The Singing Island" (1960) and made into a single in the '60s. Seeger & MacColl in turn collected it from Harry Cox, a Norfolk (England) farm labourer with a very wide repertoire of traditional songs. 9. Aimee MacPherson, red-headed evangelical preacher and illicit lover is appropriately celebrated in song. I know Pete Seeger sang it, but who wrote it? 10. Henry VIII of England is said to have written "Greensleeves". Not the song, though, but the set of tunes traditionally used for the "Bacca Pipes Jig". This is a solo morris dance performed over crossed churchwarden pipes (or any other long straight objects). Usually, it is done for money - this being piled between the arms of the cross. The dancer continues to dance until he (she) touches one of the arms of the cross or knocks over a pile of money. The money is then collected as a fee. It has been speculated that the "Scottish Sword Dance" originated as a copy of this practice. Thanks. Especially for the Aimee MacPherson contributions, they are getting very interesting. I'm now unsure of the Pete Seeger guitar stuff, so if anyone can come up with a definitive answer on this, I'd be grateful. Again, I've really enjoyed watching the solutions develop.
Cheers! |