Messages in Reverse Order

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: Sheye
Date: 28 Jul 97 - 09:09 AM

Joe Offer -- That is one scary idea!

Anyone penning the Ode to the Grand Mudcat yet?

Back on a Monday am. Look like y'all had a great weekend. A latte and the mix from the folks at Mudcat is a perfect way to start the day. Enjoy your week, everyone.

Sheye

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: Rick
Date: 28 Jul 97 - 06:15 AM

Max - great work

here's another idea - how about a cookie to let users choose their default preference (mine is descending, the default is ascending). Some people are never happy....

Rick.

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: Alice
Date: 26 Jul 97 - 07:09 PM

Well, I'm out of this thread... I've never been a cult follower!! (Just kidding, still enjoy the Mudcat Forum.) Alice

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Jul 97 - 05:19 PM

Max has FOLLOWERS ?
Ah, I should have seen the writing on the wall - Max has become the Grand Mudcat, and we are his loyal fans.
What have we gotten ourselves into?
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: suzy
Date: 26 Jul 97 - 12:41 PM

Max, it's beyond my control. You and your followers are just too irresistable. Four more weeks and I'll be back to school and will only check in in the evenings. See if your overload is better under control then.

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: Kiwi
Date: 25 Jul 97 - 08:09 PM

Max, you rock. :) Reversable threads are a great way to satisfy both factions.. and I find myself much happier being able to go through my normal happy downscrolling to see messages in the order posted. Huzzah for Max the Wizard-God! :)

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: Whippoorwill
Date: 25 Jul 97 - 10:50 AM

Max, just want to add my kudos to the rest. Reversable threads are (is?) the ideal solution. I'm afraid I'm as guilty as Suzy and Alice of camping on this site, and it is handier at times having the last message up. Thanks for giving us the choice.

Now, is there a way we can lock in the 1-minute refresh option permanently? Never satisfied, never satisfied....

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: dani
Date: 25 Jul 97 - 10:49 AM

...what a chuckle I got from THAT one. And I thought using the SHIFT key made things fancy...

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 25 Jul 97 - 01:12 AM

Reversible threads!Max, there are times when you impress me even more than at other times! Neat job.

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: Max
Date: 25 Jul 97 - 12:48 AM

Alice, I'm beginning to think that you and suzy spend way too much time on this forum.

MESSAGE FROM THE PUBLISHER

If you have all been experiencing problems accessing the forum, it is because Alice and suzy are on it so much. Blame them.

I would love to get some leeds from here. We are a family business that just wants to stay busy. You see what we can do. Just take the Onstage Media Link to know more about my profitable business (without which there would be no funding for the mudcat).

10% off the top to anyone who brings me a gig.

Thanks (gee a plug)

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: Alice
Date: 25 Jul 97 - 12:38 AM

Max... you are a wizard. When I can afford a custom web page, I want to talk to you. There should be lots of people who visit Mudcat lining up for your consulting service. Thanks for a choice.

Alice

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: Max
Date: 25 Jul 97 - 12:35 AM

How about dem apples. You now have a choice. Notice the "Sort Ascending" or "Sort Descending" at the top of the thread. Have a ball.

(can't wait to see the complaints on this one... "The threads are so long that it takes too long to reload them in the other order. Could you default it the other way when you first hit the page?")

I do like doing this stuff though, any other suggestions?

...(should I duck)

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Jul 97 - 11:02 PM

Max, I'm dumbfounded.
....and in total awe, to boot.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: suzy
Date: 24 Jul 97 - 10:20 PM

Max. You're so cute

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: Max D. Spiegel
Date: 24 Jul 97 - 10:11 PM

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Jul 97 - 10:01 PM

So, is there an HTML freak out there who can make these reverse-order messages so they also appear
upside down?
...just wondering.....
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: Alice
Date: 24 Jul 97 - 06:29 PM

To correct that term, a handy LINK (not button). A.

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: Alice
Date: 24 Jul 97 - 06:28 PM

Good job, Max. That is a handy dandy helpful button, whichever order the messages are in. Alice

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: Max
Date: 24 Jul 97 - 05:27 PM

Notice that there is now a link at the top of the thread right under the thread title that says "post to theis thread". That pops you right to the posting spot. No scrolling necessary.

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: dani
Date: 24 Jul 97 - 04:47 PM

I'm with Bill D... I gotta adjust my head, but once having done that, I think this is much better. I visit almost every day, and have stayed out of some fun discussion because it's pretty irritating to scroll through dozens of postings to see the most recent. Either way this is a treasure, but the current format seems better to me.

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: sharon
Date: 24 Jul 97 - 04:22 PM

It's great this way except for one real inconvenience. On a real busy thread, I read the recent postings at the top, but to respond one must scroll FOREVER to get to the bottom of the thread. Could the "enter message" be put at the top now, since that's where the comments we'd like to respond to are probably located. thanks, Max for trying so hard to please us all.

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: suzy
Date: 24 Jul 97 - 04:05 PM

No, Max.. This is what I find happenning. If I want to read things in the order in which they were sent, (so responses to someone's comment makes sense,} I scroll to the bottom, then read up to the last comments made, then scroll back down to respond.. Not good.. The old way was reallly better.

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: Sheye
Date: 24 Jul 97 - 03:21 PM

I agree with LaMarca ... trial period, and then decide.

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: Seamrog
Date: 24 Jul 97 - 01:27 PM

At first I thought: What a mess!
Going down to the end - going up to the last message I read - reading it downwards - going up again - reading down again ....
But well, give it time and it´ll be fine.
Now I´m crawling thru Mudcat for more than three hours and still I LIKE THE OLD WAY MUCH BETTER !
Sorry for that.
Slainte, Seamrog

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Jul 97 - 01:18 PM

I can do it either way...I simply adjust my head to whatever is happening...although, I think that the r"Reply to Thread" box should be at the same end as the latest post, so I don't have to scroll back thru everything to type my answer!---

(I tried turning my monitor upside down like rechal says, and that was fine, but then I had to put my glasses on upside down, too, and it hurt my nose)

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: Bert Hansell
Date: 24 Jul 97 - 11:57 AM

'What does Bert Think?'

Well, if I had realized that it was going to create such a fuss, I would have kept my mouth shut.

I suppose your perspective would vary depending on how often you visit DT.
As an addict, I visit often and like to see the new stuff on the top. I don't see the point of going all the way down to the bottom of the thread every time.

It's just the way that my simple mind works.

Thanks Max, for implementing it so quickly.
Let's give it a try for a while.

Bert.

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: Dan
Date: 24 Jul 97 - 11:51 AM

I know I don't post here often, but I read every day. I gotta give my vote to the old way: Top down. Dan

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: Alice
Date: 24 Jul 97 - 11:38 AM

Another two cents from me... (are these pennies adding up to make any kind of helpful contribution)? I think the "most recent at the top" format is appropriate in other chat groups, because they are often so simple minded, that they are just that.. meaningless "chat". But, the Mudcat discussion forum is different. The initial message in a thread is a significant comment or question, and the interesting replies are worthy and/or essential to be read in order to add a new message. There is so much significant discussion, lyrics, information, etc that builds on most threads, that I see this forum needing the chronological posting from initial message at top to reply box at bottom. (Can you tell I'm still not liking this new reverse order?) By the way, for those following the Friends thread, check it out for your daily hug. Alice

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From:
Date: 24 Jul 97 - 11:02 AM

I found the reverse order confusing, too, until I turned my monitor upside down. Now the threads are in the right order again. (I also tried standing on my head, but it's just not practical for long periods of time.)

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: Whippoorwill
Date: 24 Jul 97 - 10:51 AM

I'm not crazy about it. My eyeballs are beginning to feel like yo-yos, but I can live with it if that's what the majority wants.
What does Bert think? As I recall, this was his idea.

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: Bill in Alabama
Date: 24 Jul 97 - 10:38 AM

Max: The new way (reverse order) works well for me, but I'm so glad to have this sight to come to that I reckon I'll take it any way the other folks vote to have it.

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: Kiwi
Date: 24 Jul 97 - 10:15 AM

rich r - amen!

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: Wolfgang
Date: 24 Jul 97 - 03:10 AM

The new search option is an amazing improvement. As for the order of the messages, I opt now for "wait and see" as others before me. But if it stays the way it is now, I'd like to have the "Reply to Thread" box above the messages. I like to recheck other messages during responding and the probability is high that I respond to the newer messages.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: ferrara
Date: 24 Jul 97 - 03:00 AM

Just another two cents worth of opinion from a different perspective. I don't get on the Internet often, altho my husband is a regular here and hollers at me if there's something in a thread that I just must see.

At that point, I usually end up taking the computer away from him for an hour or so to follow up other interesting threads and even put in another two cents worth.

The result is that when I get interested in a thread, it's often new to me and I read it consecutively, entry by entry.

I can't imagine ever wanting the reverse chrono order under these circumstances. Nor can I imagine signing on every day ... I was a programmer/analyst/consultant for 28 years, and I basically think of computers as "the enemy," with a few wonderful exceptions such as this forum and database.

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: Alice
Date: 23 Jul 97 - 11:52 PM

Ditto.

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: Charlie Baum
Date: 23 Jul 97 - 11:41 PM

One problem as I see it is that often my response to a thread is in the context of the thread and builds upon what came before it (chronologically). Now in order to see what came before (chronologically), you have to look after (farther down the page)... so that my posting makes no sense except in light of what follows. If that seems hard to follow, just precede it. (It's post hoc propter hoc.) --Charlie Baum

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Jul 97 - 09:50 PM

Reminds me of Steve Goodman's great song, "Talk Backwards."
Confused am I. Like it, I don't.
or words to that effect....
Offer, Joe

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: rich r
Date: 23 Jul 97 - 09:22 PM

This is really bad. A very nasty trick. I hope it is temporary. Many times I decide how far to follow a post by what is requested in the first place. Now that is way at the bottom. Furthermore I don't have the instant recollection that I once had so I often need to skim through the beginning of a thread in order to refresh my memory and get reoriented. If a post is length you end up gjoing down to the top of the post, continuing down as you read it and then back up all the way to the top of the previous post. Thus an unnatural reading backwards becomes a totally perverse reading zigzag, something like a stock market graph: down, down, down, up, up, down down up, down, up, down up, down, up, up..... Bifocals and trifocals aren't meant for that, not to mention mouse hand cramps. Perhaps the Reply should be put way at the top too, then I could respoond directly to the last post without knowing what the others are. Maybe we should also have the option of inserting our responses anywhere in the thread that we thought was most appropriate and do away with the concept of chronology altogether. I think this was designed by someone who, when asked the time, would respond 7:31 rather than the more genteel half past seven. Ther, I have vented, for now.

rich r

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: John
Date: 23 Jul 97 - 07:57 PM

Max,

Thank you, I give this an absolute thumbs up. I have the choice in my normal email to format it either way, but choose this style every time.

Well done!

Regards John

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: Max Spiegel
Date: 23 Jul 97 - 07:53 PM

OK, tell you what. I will start another thread in a week or so and take a poll. I must give it some time to sink in. I think it should have been this way from the start, so it's my mistake. You'll probably get used to it, but if in a week most still don't like it, then I will change it back.

Now all of you please try out my new prototype for deeper searching of the forum. I am very excited about this, and I did it all today and finished it about 4 minutes ago. You can see it at http://www.onstagemedia.com/mudcat/forumsearch.cfm

It is a prototype, so be kind. Let me know what you think. I will start a new thread about it now.

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: John
Date: 23 Jul 97 - 07:53 PM

Max,

Thank you, I give this an absolute thumbs up. I have the choice in my normal email to format it either way, but choose this style every time.

Well done!

Regards John

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: sharon
Date: 23 Jul 97 - 07:47 PM

YES. This way, at a glance, you can see the most recent posting to the thread.. It's a real improvement.

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: Alan of Oz
Date: 23 Jul 97 - 07:07 PM

So far I don't like it, like Alice, Kiwi & Lorraine I feel disoriented but like LaMarca I think it needs a week to get used to it.

Cheers,
Alan

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: Jon W.
Date: 23 Jul 97 - 06:20 PM

Max, I appreciate your hard work. As a programmer myself, I'm always looking for better ways to do things. Here's a new wrinkle - sort the messages in a thread by reverse order by day, but normal order by time. I.E. todays messages from morning to night would be at the top, yesterday's next, again from morning to night, etc. The reason I suggest this is that the long, popular threads do get confusing to scan through in reverse order. But I do like seeing the latest messages first. What do others think? Would this be even more confusing?

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: Susan of California
Date: 23 Jul 97 - 06:20 PM

I like it this way-but that's because I tend to be impatient, and get annoyed waiting for the document to be "done". This way it is easier to pick up where I left off. Guess I'm in the minority so far, but then again I didn't vote for a President that won until I was in my thirties :-)

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: Bob Landry
Date: 23 Jul 97 - 05:49 PM

My first reaction, "Wha' Happened?" This is going to take some getting used to. - Bob

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: LaMarca
Date: 23 Jul 97 - 05:47 PM

My initial reaction was that it's jarring, but the opportunity to interrupt transfers of those 60-80 message threads in order to read just the most recent additions is REAL tempting. Why don't we all give it a week to see how it feels, and then post a thread asking for votes Yea and Nay (with a time (and word?) limit on the election, of course). After all, to us traditionalists, Changes ALWAYS look Evil (at least at first...) Sound good, Max?

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: Lorraine
Date: 23 Jul 97 - 05:45 PM

Max No I don't like this -Like Alice and Kiwi-I feel disoriented as I read backwards through the entrys.

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: Kiwi
Date: 23 Jul 97 - 05:32 PM

I find myself agreeing with Alice - it's nice if the thread is long and you're looking for the most recent messages.. but then you have to keep paging up and down to keep things in chronological order....

Subject: RE: Messages in Reverse Order
From: Alice
Date: 23 Jul 97 - 05:24 PM

WOW, Max, I feel like my world just turned upside down. Kind of dis-orienting. I think I liked the other way better, because the chronological messages made sense as you scrolled down them and scanned the content. Now I found myself going "backwords" to find out what everyone was talking about. Kind of like Alice through the looking glass and into backwards land. Alice