Definitions and Pronunciations

Subject: Definitions and Pronunciations
From: GUEST,Sheila
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 11:36 AM

Hello, all. I often see the words "craic," "seisun," and "slainte" in these threads. What do they mean and how are they pronounced in American phonetics? Thank you. And there must be other words related to music that are common, as well. All entries are appreciated. Sheila

Subject: RE: Definitions and Pronunciations
From: Áine
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 11:54 AM

Dear Sheila,

All the words you've specified are in the Irish language. Craic is pronounced like the English word 'crack', and means conversation, fun, chat, generally a good time. Seisiún is pronounced sort of like 'seh-shoon' in English, and means a social gathering. It is referred to mostly on this forum as a musical gathering. Sláinte is the Irish word for health, and is pronounced sort of like 'slahn-cheh' in English. It is used often as a toast, and also as a word of farewell.

-- Áine

Subject: RE: Definitions and Pronunciations
From: Micca
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 11:58 AM

Says Aine pronounced Awn-yeh.....

Subject: RE: Definitions and Pronunciations
From: GUEST,Sheila
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 12:11 PM

Thank you, Aine. Micca, that would have been my next question. Sheila

Subject: RE: Definitions and Pronunciations
From: MartinRyan
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 02:50 PM

Áine

Curiously enough, "craic" in the sense of fun, good conversation etc. is not an Irish word. As far as I know, it was widely used in that sense throughout Northern Britain until relatively recently and is, of course, still used that way in Norhtern Ireland. There's no sign of it in old Irish dictionaries. It's current fashion in Ireland is relatively recent - and the "back-creation" of the derivation - probably thinking of the word "creac/creacht" which is something else entirely, is even more so.

Words are funny things...

Regards

Subject: RE: Definitions and Pronunciations
From: Rana who SHOULD be working
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 02:55 PM

With regards to "craic" someone was telling me of a young Irish friend of his who was visiting the US for the first time. Immigration asked why he was visiting to which he replied, quite innocently,"for the craic". He couldn't understand at the time why he was immediately escorted to a back room and subject to a compleat search.

Rana

Subject: RE: Definitions and Pronunciations
From: Áine
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 03:15 PM

Dear Martin,

Not being an expert, I won't argue with your claim that the word might not be an 'old' Irish word. But, being that it is in the 'new' Irish dictionaries, and is in use in modern Irish, I was just trying to explain to Sheila what it meant and/or how it was used. However, I have seen the word used in the way I described in works of literature as Gaeilge that were written contemporary with World War II. However, I have to say that the authors were writing in the Ulster dialect. I wish I could tell you which ones they were, but the books were borrowed from a friend and have since been returned to him. I do remember, however, that they were typeset in the seanchló. But I seem to recall seeing Séamas Ó Grianna and his brother, Seosamh, using the word in at least one of their books.

And you're absolutely right about words being funny things.

-- Áine

Subject: RE: Definitions and Pronunciations
From: GUEST,Sheila
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 03:26 PM

Subject: RE: Definitions and Pronunciations
From: GUEST,Sheila
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 03:31 PM

Sorry, I keep hitting some wrong button. Could you say, then, "I'll see you at the seisiun for a craic?" I can't recall the contexts that intrigued me in the first place. Sheila, trying to do the right thing.

Subject: RE: Definitions and Pronunciations
From: MartinRyan
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 04:13 PM

Áine

It seems likely the word came into Irish in Donegal, alright.

BTW - see the latest on "Éistigh liomsa..."?

Regards

Subject: RE: Definitions and Pronunciations
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 05:04 PM

Irish and English haven't been segregated from each other all along. Borrowing back and forth has been going along all the time. That's what living languages do.

I'd have thought that "crack" could have come into Irish at any time and any place, for example from returning seasonal workers or soldiers or whatever (assuming of course it wasn't other way round). But now at any rate it's got a distinct meaning, different from the English "crack", which just means conversation. And a more Irish spelling to make that distinction makes a lot of sense.

Subject: RE: Definitions and Pronunciations
From: MartinRyan
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 05:33 PM

McGrath

Dead right! I'm just back from a week in the Connemara Gaeltacht and it was quite fascinating to watch/hear the way the language changes. The "native speaker" (a rather ugly term, methinks) borrows words quite extensively - even when there have been or are recognised Irish words. Borrowed words get inflected after the pattern of Irish words - one of my favourites was "mo mhobile"!

Regards

Subject: RE: Definitions and Pronunciations
From: GUEST,CLETUS
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 05:59 PM

I haint nair bin whun ta holt withen them furrin lengwagiz but Ime allzo mitey happy ta hav a fyen edgeekayshun an allus liken ta lern new thangs soze itz gud thet weeuns got Aine arown.

CLETUS

Subject: RE: Definitions and Pronunciations
From: Bill D
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 07:22 PM

you'll find the word hiding in a few Gaelic songs (both Scottish & Irish) such as

The Jolly Beggar

The beggar was a cunnin' loon, ne'er a word he spak,
wi' a foll and me doll and me dandy-o
but when he got his turn done, he began to crack,
wi' a teer-a-noora neer-a-noora nandy-o.

Subject: RE: Definitions and Pronunciations
From: Áine
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 08:06 PM

A Mháirtín,

'Mo mhobile' - brilliant! I saw a different phrase used in Éilís Ní Dhuibhne's Dúnmharú sa Daingean that I just finished reading. 'Teileafón póca' is the term she used, though I can imagine you can hear 'fón póca', too, I guess.

-- Áine

(agus na bí buartha, a chara, ní raibh tú ro-saoithíneach f´n 'craic' ar bith!)

Subject: RE: Definitions and Pronunciations
From: Áine
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 08:09 PM

That should be - fón póca', of course . . . or perhaps a better description would be 'fón púca' (hahahaha)...

-- Áine

Subject: RE: Definitions and Pronunciations
From: GUEST,Sheila
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 08:28 PM

Subject: RE: Definitions and Pronunciations
From: GUEST,Sheila
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 08:29 PM

I slipped again, sorry. While I'm at it, what's a "feis" and how do you pronounce it? Sheila

Subject: RE: Definitions and Pronunciations
From: Naemanson
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 08:45 PM

Feis is a "faysh" and I've heard of it as an Irish dance competition. I have a friend with a daughter who dances in them all the time.

Subject: RE: Definitions and Pronunciations
From: Áine
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 08:57 PM

It might just be my 'northern' way of speaking; but I'd be more likely to pronounce 'feis' as 'fyesh', Naemanson. It could be translated as a 'festival', but it is usually used (at least in the States) as either a dance or music competition . . . and I won't be going into the 'deeper' meaning of the word here, either (hahahaha).

-- Áine

Subject: RE: Definitions and Pronunciations
From: Naemanson
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 09:01 PM

I bow before greater wisdom than mine. I am working from a pronunciation as enunciated by my friend from Eastern Pennsylvania with smatterings of Western Connecticut thrown into his speech.

Subject: RE: Definitions and Pronunciations
From: Áine
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 09:07 PM

Well, Naemanson, does it really matter? As long as they know where they're goin' and what they're supposed to do when they get there, right? ;-)

-- Áine