History: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?

Subject: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Aug 00 - 06:36 PM

Did anybody hear about this? Per my Mom, another avid NPR listener, they have NOW, (re)solved the Laura Foster murder, and apparently Tom was framed by Laura's sister, who was all pissed that she got the clap from Tom that Laura had given him...

Anybody have any knowledge of this? Makes me wonder about Polly Von, poor Ellen Smith, pretty Polly, and all the others from murder ballads with names in them...

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Aug 00 - 06:42 PM

OK, I've got the article. It's audio, available at http://www.npr.org/ramfiles/atc/20000731.atc.06.ram. Starts with the Kingston Trio singing... that's as far as I've gotten. Sounds like it's going to be fascinating...

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: bill\sables
Date: 01 Aug 00 - 06:51 PM

I Did hear Years ago that Sheriff Grayson killed her and framed Dooley

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Aug 00 - 06:52 PM

That seems to be yet another interpretation... anybody up for a discussion of the death penalty? Not!

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: Morticia
Date: 01 Aug 00 - 06:53 PM

and laura foster is?

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: ddw
Date: 01 Aug 00 - 08:41 PM

Mrrzy,

There have been previous threads on this, but a forum search turned up only one just now.

According to my reading on the Tom Dooley (really Dula) case, the situation really was this:

Tom returned to his home near Lenore, N.C. something of a hero after the Civil War. He was putting himself about with the local ladies when he apparently caught the clap from Laura Foster, then passed it along to Ann Melton. Of course the exact route can't really be known, but that's how it appeared. Ann got PO'd about it and killed Laura, then asked Tom to help her dispose of the body — which he did, but got caught at it somehow and was charged with the murder. Ann was also charged, but bragged in her cell that the was "much too pretty to be hanged."

Sheriff Grayson — can't remember his first name — was a little sweet on Ann and relied on her version of what happened to pin the murder on Dula (Dooley), even though there was a fair amount of physical evidence that he wasn't the killer. Ann's testimony succeeded in getting Dula hanged and her released. Grayson then married Ann and lived with her for a number of years. People in the area say that on her deathbed Ann told Grayson something — nobody knows what, but they all speculate it was a confession about the murder — which absolutely shattered him. A short time later he just quit his post and disappeared across the Smoky Mountains into Tennessee.

Hope that helps,

david

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From:
Date: 01 Aug 00 - 09:16 PM

Thanks, Mrzzy! Wish I could hear it!

HEre are some of the other threads and sites with information on Tom Dooley

Thread - song Tom Dooley
Older thread on Tom Dooley
Tom Dooley (trad)

There are links to other threads on Tom Dooley/Dula in those threads.

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: kendall
Date: 01 Aug 00 - 11:38 PM

So, how come the Sheriff didn't catch the Clap?

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: GUEST,John Gray / Australia
Date: 01 Aug 00 - 11:57 PM

ddw - everything you had to say about Tom Dula et al sounded very plausible to me until you got to the bit about Grayson marrying Ann. I wouldn't have thought that even a US sheriff would be stupid enough to marry a woman with the clap !

JG / FME

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: Rasta
Date: 02 Aug 00 - 03:28 AM

unless I had a small stroke Help what is NRP or am I loosing it, isit on TV or Radio or perhaps a UFO---thanx Rastaaaaaaaaaaa

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Aug 00 - 04:37 AM

Hi, Rasta - NPR is National Public Radio in the U.S., www.npr.org - they have excellent news coverage.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Aug 00 - 08:09 AM

According to the article, JohnGray, she got herself cured, which is how anybody found out that anybody had it. Also, Morticia, in the ballad about Tom Dula, they mention the name of the vic, Laura Foster. I always figured he killed her for being pregnant when he didn't want to get married... like all the other murder ballads of that type.

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 02 Aug 00 - 09:43 AM

Mrrzy, we have Tom's confession here on the Mudcat. Confession: I killed Laura Foster

There are also many other confessions you might be interested in.

Mary

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: Jeri
Date: 02 Aug 00 - 10:03 AM

Both of the following links are from The Johnson Co. Tennessee Genealogy Page. On this page, is a link to a wav file of the first recording of the song, recorded September 30, 1929 by G.B. (Gilliam Banmon) Grayson (1887-1930). This was the nephew of Major Grayson. There are two Graysons, and I believe it's the second (Major), which if it hadn't been for...

The Legend of Tom Dooley The Grayson in this story was Bob, a schoolteacher who was also courting Laura.

The Capture of Tom Dula/Dooley. The Grayson here is a Major James W.M. Grayson who was instrumental in Dula's capture, and didn't know Dula (nor Laura Foster or anyone else involved) at the time of the murder.

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: Abby Sale
Date: 02 Aug 00 - 10:51 AM

Lomax credits Dula with the only decent thing he is known to have done -- Tom denied Ann's culpability & didn't even mention her name in the song he wrote. Thus, she got off with a short sentence. Still, it was locally known that she recieved her just deserts: Seems that when Ann died, the Devil carried her off, while black cats ran squawling up the walls of her room and the smell of frying meat filled the air.

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: Jeri
Date: 02 Aug 00 - 11:30 AM

I strongly recommend listening to the NPR segment if you're interested in the song and the history. They interview Frank Proffitt Jr., his account of his father first hearing the song on the radio, and him singing his version of the song. There is a history of the song collection, and a bit about the copyright/money business.

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: Sean Belt
Date: 02 Aug 00 - 11:35 AM

I was just out in the Asheville area of North Carolina near where the events this ballad is based on happened. There was some discussion in a workshop I attended given by Betty Smith ( a wonderful ballad singer and collector and a genuinely nice woman) about the Tom Dula/ Laurie Foster case and some of the "facts" that have recently come to light.

One of the things that Betty mentioned was that the people in the town where this happened still believe that Laurie Foster was the next best thing to a saint and that Tom Dula was "no better than he should have been", as the saying goes. As I understand it, the people around there maintain that Dula killed her because she wouldn't have sex with him. Apparently Betty mentioned the possibility that Ms. Foster may have been pregnant or had VD and the woman she mentioned it to about had apoplexy! Amazing that people can still be so passionate about something that happened well over 100 years ago!

Still and all, it's a wonderful song.

- Sean

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 02 Aug 00 - 01:27 PM

Sean; You shouldn't be surprised how passionate people are about things in that area or this country. You can still start a riot by implying Robert E. Lee wasn't the best general of the time. Also, how many of them might have been decendants of some sort of Laura Foster? If the Lyrics are a truthful or fairly so account I hold with Major James W. M. Grayson who was instrumental in his capture. I quote: "Hadn't have been for Grayson, I'd a been in Tennesee." KIndest reguards, Neil

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Aug 00 - 01:32 PM

Temptation.... OJ jokes.... no.... won't do it.... but can't quite CLEAR ENTRIES either....

But I didn't shoot the deputy!

~S~

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Aug 00 - 01:32 PM

If anyone cares, les Compagnons de la Chanson do a great translation of this one into French.

Fais ta prière, Tom Dooley, Fais ta prière mon vieux,
c'est la derniè, Tom Dooley, Fais ta prière mon vieux.

Another chorus is
Fais ta prière, Tom Dooley, c'est tout ce qu'on peut t'offrir,
Fais ta prière Tom Dooley, demain tu vas mourir...

very lovely version.

And Mary in Kentucky, I shall check out the confessions...

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: kendall
Date: 02 Aug 00 - 03:34 PM

talk about long lived passion, Go to Glen Coe and tell someone you are a Campbell.

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: MAG (inactive)
Date: 02 Aug 00 - 03:39 PM

For those who can'tget the NPR article, it said Grayson was the man in Tennesee Tom was working for who turned him in. Tom may have thought Laura gave him VD -- that was his story -- but the shoe was almost certainly on the other foot. He had other ladyfriends who may well have killed his fiance out of jealousy.

-- That was what the (very interesting) article said.

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: GUEST,John Gray / Australia
Date: 02 Aug 00 - 11:30 PM

Mrrzy - could they really cure the clap in, when - the late 1860's ?

JG / FME

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Aug 00 - 09:46 AM

The disease in question is syphilis, and no, I don't think there was an effective cure back then. I'm not sure what was being used at the time the events took place, but salts of mercury had been used previously. It may have cured the disease if it didn't kill the patient, but it did faster damage that the disease would have. Syphilis can become latent and never re-surface, or come back in later years (typically 5 - 20 years after infection) to disable and kill. I believe the first cure that actually worked on syphilis without killing the patient was penicillin.

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: catspaw49
Date: 03 Aug 00 - 10:03 AM

Visiting the Museum of Medical History in DC can give you enlightenment on the history of syphyllis. A large area of display is devoted to it and the exhibits are ...... well, let's say they're things you don't normally see in museums.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From:
Date: 12 Mar 04 - 04:28 PM

Notes
I do believe that those folks could cure rickets, which syphilis is a kind of, to some extent.
Since the middle ages, nobility had been taking silver on the belief it helped their health; hence the term "blueblood" I understand;
but that is not all; American Indians used the pokeweed root--which when an overdose is taken, may cause some hallucination--to try to cure rickets.
Rickets includes not only syphilis but lyme disease and its close cousin typhus--common in the N.E. (not surprising as the people of the 17th-18th century, in Europe and the U.S. just picked lice off their clothing if they bothered at all; one gentlemen managed to get one of his reisdent lice to give him directions).
But for any cure to work, the treatment had to be early.
For the record, that does not always work either. I received ear swelling from a tickbite; the tick, which did not take much blood from me for it was not swollen, bit me for maybe 10 minutes before I picked it off.
I tried to be treated in 2 weeks, but the doctor molested me--though I clearly had lyme, not syphilis (lyme is characterized by a rash in the extremities; little genital mucosa, especially for the first year or so, and heart but not lung infection).
Within 2 months, I went to someone else, and got on azithromax with my cat who also had gotten a tickbite from my ticks. We also took his vibramycin, related to doxycycline. We took this 2 months. I took as well liquid silver, chlorophyl, and pennyroyal extract, plus some pokeweek extract. We also took a supplement for the heart, coenzyme A10 for my heart was almost instantly infected though they tell me it takes time.
No luck. I had a rash in my foot and a toe that was so infected it was about to become gangrenous as with typhus. Fortunately, my father recommended melatonin which helped some.
My heart and toe were cured, but like Mr. Ferrit in the poem by Judith Wright, who cuts down a tree but still has hayfever, I still have lyme disease or typhus; "nothing will cure it." And that's today folks.

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: Nerd
Date: 12 Mar 04 - 04:55 PM

Anne Melton was Laura's cousin, not sister. There is no evidence of which of them (Melton or Dula) killed LF, but Tom confessed. He almost certainly did help with the body.

Grayson was not a Sherriff at all, but a local landowner who had been a Colonel and then a Major (it was not a bust, he transfered to a different unit and got a different commission); he had retired a Major and was known as Major Grayson. Tom Dula, in fleeing, found he needed new boots, and stopped at Grayson's, working for the Major until such time as he could afford the boots. Then he took off.

Soon thereafter, a posse arrived at Grayson's place looking for Dula, and they found him and took him back to North Carolina, where he confessed and was hanged.

Although he was almost certainly guilty, the extradition across state lines was not legal. If it happened today, he'd be freed on a technicality.

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 12 Mar 04 - 05:23 PM

GUEST cew, you've got your medical terms mixed up.

Rickets is not a communicable disease. It is a malnutrition condition.

What I think you're confused about is rickettsia, which is a variety of disease-causing microorganism.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Mar 04 - 07:41 PM

If the disease in question was the clap, there was a treatment back then that sometimes worked. You don't want to know about it. The mercury cure sometimes worked but killed just as often as it cured.

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: GUEST,Allan S
Date: 12 Mar 04 - 08:17 PM

Ricketts I believe is a result of lack of Vit.D thats why children were given Cod liver oil. Ricketisea [sp.?] is an organism between a bacteria and a virus tho now it falls in withe bact. for classification. An early attempt at a cure for "the clap" which is caused by a diplocossus was to inject a solution of potassium permanganate up inthrough the penis tho i am not sure how effective it was. From what history I remember both diseases were pandemic.
Excuse the spelling I havent worked with this stuff in over 50 years. since I was a medic in the Army. How I remember those days in the "clap shack" doing GC smears.

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From:
Date: 14 Jul 04 - 03:22 PM

LOVED THE MOVIE WITH MICHAEL LANDON BUT I DO NOT THINK HE KILLED HER. I THINK IT WAS THE DEPUTY WHO BROUGHT HIM IN.

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: GUEST,AS in Australia
Date: 17 Jul 04 - 08:34 AM

John Foster West has described the murder of Laura Foster and the subsequent trial of Tom Dula, from primary sources. If he is correct, then many of the assertions on this web page are incorrect.

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: GUEST,Arkie
Date: 17 Jul 04 - 10:05 AM

I don't remember seeing this link posted above. If it has been posted please accept my apology. It contains some of the facts as stated in John Foster West's book via David Holt.

David Holt

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: GUEST,Reality
Date: 17 Jul 04 - 12:23 PM

Ohh! Laura Foster

I thought y'all meant Laura Palmer of Twin Peaks.

never mind . . .

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 04:12 PM

There were cures that sometimes worked, google should bring them up.
Anyway, how is Dula pronounced, Doolay or Doolaw?

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 05:08 PM

I first heard the story from a Doc Watson version and that's what sticks with me. In the description Tom is described as one of those indidivuals who has matured before his proper age, a full beard at 14, and signs up to join the Army...too young. Then after early experience of killing comes home to take the affections of Laurie Foster who is underage.. clue being in the verse that says "he dug her grave four feet long.. he dug it three feet deep" The girl is only young, but, despite the same age as Tom, hence the community outrage and ballad about his offence. Debate about who was actually responsible might or might not be part of the truth. Was Sheriff Grayson implicated? In any event it seems from the song I learned that Tom was perhaps a victim of injustice and Grayson portrayed as a manipulative official. Could it ring true?

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 05:11 PM

Young, sure, but average height wasn't as great.

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 05:33 PM

Then after early experience of killing comes home to take the affections of Laurie Foster who is underage.. clue being in the verse that says "he dug her grave four feet long.. he dug it three feet deep"

How is that a clue that she's underage? If she's buried with her knees tucked to her chest, four feet long would be PLENTY long enough. If the grave is only dug three feet deep, the digger is saving digging time or effort, or both, and cramming the body in a smallish hole makes sense.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 05:43 PM

The clue has to be in the verse...no point in making it otherwise. It's storytelling and if you're suggesting a squashed up hurried grave then the verse would have conveyed that. Ya divit

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 05:54 PM

The name is 'DuLay' not 'Dooley' as somebody already nearly said.

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 05:58 PM

So what's your proof? Names change spelling according to pronounciation. Does it make a difference to the song?

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: Highlandman
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 06:13 PM

I live about an hour from Lenoir, NC, and I know some Dulas. Their pronunciation is DOO-luh, but it's common in the mountain dialects to transmute final vowels to "ee" (as in the Grand Ol' Opry), hence "Dooley."
And yes, 140 years ago is NOT considered the distant past around here :-)
-HM

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 06:22 PM

if you're suggesting a squashed up hurried grave then the verse would have conveyed that.

I think it exactly conveyed that. The size of the grave gives no indication of Laura's size--although if she was a big gal, say six feet, I suppose she wouldn't fit in four feet even "folded up". But even if she was a diminutive woman, it's no proof that she was underage.

And The clue has to be in the verse...no point in making it otherwise.

The motivation of a song originator in writing it a certain way is often (not to say usually) a mystery. That language can be seen as interesting in itself, or a fill-out of the scansion and/or rhyme scheme, or merely reflecting a fact of the case that was known (if it is a fact that was known), just to fill out the story with every detail known.

"The clue" supposes that there is reason to expect a clue about her age to be in the song. As if the song is incomplete without that detail. If the writer really wanted us to know that she was, say, thirteen, he could have told us so, and didn't. No reason to think he'd just hint at it with "the clue".

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Jun 05 - 12:13 AM

If Laura Foster died childless, it would be most difficult to have descendants of any kind from her, I say mildly. Relatives, perhaps?

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: GUEST,Betsy
Date: 24 Jun 05 - 02:57 AM

Dooley , Dula , Dulay ??

In India they sing " Hang down your head Tandoori "

Strange how songs travel.!!! Smile .

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 24 Jun 05 - 04:59 AM

I have seen a newspaper report from the trial and he is named as Tom Dula.

eric

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: GUEST,Bainbo
Date: 24 Jun 05 - 05:19 AM

There was a guy near where I live called Tom Head (really). He didn't take kindly to people singing "Hang down your Dooleys, Tom Head"

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 24 Jun 05 - 03:30 PM

Syphilis was treated with salts of murcury back then. Not with any real efectiveness. The average height for a male of the time was five feet eight inches. It'd be intersted in seeing that site if you remember it GeestAS in Australia. Kindst regards, Neil

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 09:38 PM

THERE WAS NO SHERIFF GRAYSON. THE GRAYSON IN THE SONG IS THE GRAYSON TOM DULA WORKED FOR WHEN HE FLED WILKES COUNTY. HIS NAME WAS A COLONIAL IN THE CIVIL WAR AND HAD A FARM NEAR THE NC,TN STATE LINE.

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: GUEST,lenoir,nc
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 09:52 PM

Tom's last name was Dula, pronounced Dooley for the sake of the ballad, it just roles off the tongue better. It was not Dulay as prior mentioned. I live in Lenoir,NC about fifteen minutes from Laura's grave. Another misconception is thyat she was buried high upon a hill, when she is actually buried in field.