History: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?

Subject: RE: History: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: saulgoldie
Date: 19 Oct 21 - 06:52 PM

Yes, keberoxu. I skipped a word.

Should have been "...had a NO clue as to what it referred to." And I be one of them.

Saul

Subject: RE: History: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Oct 21 - 04:23 PM

I can add only 1 or 2 probably not very relevant facts: (a) Before I retired, I worked at a place where there were a lot of people from Eastern Europe (mainly Polish); there was a (man) with the surname Dula (I can't remember his forename) who was from the Czech Republic working briefly there (I am not however claiming that Tom Dooley/Dula was from that country (I don't think even Czechoslovakia existed at the time Laura Foster was killed; it seems to have been part of the Austro-Hungarian empire until the latter fell in 1918 after the 1st World War - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czech_Republic. (b) The first recorded version of "Tom Dooley" was in 1929 for Victor Records by a G.B. Grayson, a blind fiddler from Mountain City, Tennessee, who was a descendant of Sherriff Grayson, and a Henry Whitter, according to Clinton Heylin's book "It's One For the Money: The Song Snatchers who carved up a century of pop and sparked a musical revolution." (Constable, London, 2015). I can heartily recommend this book, which gives a lot of information on the origins of songs; in the case of Tom Dooley, it says that though it was collected in 1938 (i.e. 9 years after Grayson and Whitter's release) by the folklorist Frank Warner from a Frank Profitt. It says that Warner would however have known about three versions of the song in the Frank C. Brown collection (Warner studied under Brown and Newman Ivey White) which were collected by "the trusty Mrs. Sutton shortly after the Great War." Mrs. Sutton apparently stated "[It] was composed by an old negro named Charlie Davenport, and sung to the tune of "Run, Nigger, Run." The next paragraph in Heylin's book however states "What makes a negro author particularly enticing is the fact that the song is a lyrical redaction of a vulgar ballad, 'The murder of Laura Foster', written shortly after the dead (which was in 1866) by Thomas Land..." Frank Warner recorded the song for Elektra in 1952, the same year Frank C. Brown's multiple versions finally appeared in print. Apparently the song had been published by a Mellinger Henry the same year (1938) that Frank Warner recorded the song by Frank Proffitt on his "primitive portable tape recorder."

Subject: RE: History: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: meself
Date: 15 Oct 21 - 01:46 PM

I've read just enough about the case to be surprised - I know, I shouldn't be - when some random person makes some kind of categorical statement about who did what to who, and who didn't, and why, and why not. The contemporary accounts are contradictory, as are the later statements from those who were alive at the time and supposedly close to the case, and the later researchers are not in agreement, so .... If you have family lore passed down from the time and place of the events, that's one thing - but if you're just someone who heard the song and saw something on TV once ... well .......

Subject: RE: History: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: GUEST,keberoxu
Date: 14 Oct 21 - 08:54 PM

Excuse me, saulgoldie, did you mean to say:

'most of the people who listened to this song had a clue'

or did you mean to say the opposite,
because I am having trouble following the reasoning. Thanks.

Subject: RE: History: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 14 Oct 21 - 11:45 AM

Funny to see this thread just now. Hang Down Your Head...was recently running through my mind along with a couple of other songs that made me wonder just why they were so popular, cause they seemed to leave out a lot of what "should" have been the story.

Without going into the weeds about it, it just seems like TD is a partial story, and why do I care about it? Obviously, from this thread I can see that there is a LOT to it. But still, how does such an incomplete story make it into popular culture? I am pretty sure that most of the people who listened to this song had a clue as to what it referred to. Lessen, of course, they are Mudcatters. ;-)

Saul

Subject: RE: History: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 14 Oct 21 - 05:40 AM

I think that there are more recent sources than these.

Grayson had actually employed Dulafor about a week when Dula was on the run but when he realised who he was he and two eputies gave chase and brought him back.
Richard Polenberg's book published in 2015 has the story along with other s that inspired American folksongs John Henry and Stackolee for example.

Subject: RE: History: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Oct 21 - 04:17 AM

Dave, that is right, also Grayson was having an affair with Ann, and wanted dula out of the way, i though grayson was a sherrif but maybe that was wrong

Subject: RE: History: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 14 Oct 21 - 02:46 AM

Apparently Ann Melton killed Laura Foster and Tom Dula confessed to killing her to save Ann Melton from hanging.

There was a TV documentary about it a few years ago.

Dave H

Subject: RE: History: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Oct 21 - 03:15 PM

I heard that Elvis killed her and made Grason drop to his knees.

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: GUEST,Ang
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 09:47 PM

This story fascinates me; first heard the song as a child. I don't have a clue who killed Laura. Given that all the players are long dead, no one can really know. But the story makes for some damned good reading.

I live in coastal Carolina; travelled to Boone a few weekends ago to see the mountain fall foliage. A small hop from Happy Valley. I could kick myself for passing it by!

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Dec 10 - 09:19 AM

or2nd part, some say it was ann melton you paid for it with your life

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Dec 10 - 08:47 AM

some say you didnt kill her an innocent man was tried,you covered for another, poor boy your bound to die.

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Dec 10 - 08:27 AM

no that wont do,no false confession

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Dec 10 - 07:03 AM

heres a new verse.
some say you didnt kill her,an innocent man was tried.you made a false confession, to save a poor girls life.

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: GUEST,Dula Cousin
Date: 10 Nov 10 - 11:37 AM

Sally: actually "Dula" is the right spelling of the name, the confederate army changed it by accident due to the mountain speak of our ancestors. :)

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: GUEST,Dula Cousin
Date: 10 Nov 10 - 11:35 AM

I am Tom Dula's 1st Cousin 5 times removed. There are several things wrong with the post.
1) Laura and Ann are cousins, not sisters
2) "Sheriff" Grayson, wasn't sheriff, he was an Army Colonel--who now owned a farm since the confederacy had been put down.
3) Ann Foster Melton killed Laura Foster--she confessed on her death bed, but it was TOO late for Tom so it's been hush, hush...except in local circles!
I am glad that Tom's story is still being told and still intrigues people! You are more than welcome to email me for more information at
[e-mail]

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 08:06 PM

Here's an updated link to the NPR story from July 2000, that inspired the start of this thread.

Some of my husband's ancestors came to Idaho from Lenoir, North Carolina. He says they often said "Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster!"

:-)

Nice site, RWilhelm.

~ Becky in Long Beach

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: Janie
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 07:30 PM

Good job, RW. And very interesting website.

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: RWilhelm
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 05:37 PM

On my blog, Murder by Gaslight, I have posted the story of the murder of Laura Foster by Tom Dula:

Hang Down Your Head Tom Dula

I have also posted the stories behind a numbeer of other American murder ballads. As you would expect, the stories never quite match the songs.

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: Neil D
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 12:53 PM

A couple years ago I saw a Youtube piece from a documentary, BBC I believe, about Doc Watson that showed an older woman at Doc's house telling the story of Doc's grandmother being at Ann Melton's deathbed. I just spent the last hour searching for it to post here, but it seems to have disappeared. I know that a lot if stuff has been removed from Youtube recently because of companies evoking copywrite laws.

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 07:49 AM

It seems much more evident, having read the archives in Raleigh regarding this tragic event, that Ann was the murderer and Tom was willing to go to the gallows to save her life. Or, they were both complicit, but Tom just would not confess to the fact. Just before his hanging in Statesville, he stated "As God is my witness, I never laid a hand on Laura" (or words to that effect). It is interesting to note, though Ann slipped the gallows, one year later died in a carriage accident....very interesting story.

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Nov 08 - 12:17 AM

I think you just described the O.J. Simpson trial.

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 11:37 AM

With the advent of DNA evidence, we can now begin to unearth all the long dead souls whose departure left unanswered questions. First, it was Jesse James, now Tom Dula - tomorrow, the WORLD!!

For many years, and especially on the frontier or in backwoods areas, jurys were made up (when they were actually empaneled)of available citizens, sometimes within the confines of the same tavern. They were frequently uneducated and often influenced by social standing of the accused or victim, or by race or ethnicity. Rules of evidence were usually murky and often lacking altogether. Heresay, rumor and "reputation" of the accused or victim often prevailed in coming to a verdict. Wait a minute; that sounds like a trial I was following last week...

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: goatfell
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 04:41 AM

Aye the right blame the woman, it takes two to tango

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 04:19 AM

that's terrific bobad - many thanks!

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: GUEST,Sally Kay in NC
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 02:05 AM

As for who killed Laura Foster -- I tend to believe Doc Watson's version, that Ann Melton on her deathbed confessed to Doc's great grandmother that she killed Laura and Tom helped her by burying the body. Maybe, maybe not ... will we ever really know?

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: GUEST,Sally Kay in NC
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 01:56 AM

In doing some research re: the geneaology of Tom Dula's family, indications are that his ancestors came from Ireland, with the family name being O'Dooley. In America, as was often done, the "O'" was dropped, becoming Dooley. At some point one of the generations changed the name to Dula. So, the folk song might have the most accurate version of the family name after all....

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: bobad
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 06:50 PM

Link to the piece posted above: http://joski56.blogspot.com/search?q=tom+dooley

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: bobad
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 06:46 PM

This is the story of a young confederate soldier, Tom Dooley, who returned to his home in Happy Valley on the Yadkin River in Wilkes County, North Carolina after the Civil War. Tom survived many battles but his claim to fame was his love of music. While in the army camp, it was Tom who would be found sitting around singing songs and picking his banjo.

Before the war, Tom, a happy-go-lucky young man, was very popular with the young ladies. Two of these young ladies were Laura Foster and her cousin Ann Foster. The girls were noted for their popularity and were well sought after by the local swains. They turned a lot of heads. Both girls became infatuated with Tom Dooley. He managed his time to be with both.

By the time the war was over, Ann's infatuation had come to an end and she married James Milton. On Tom Dooley's return Laura thought, with Ann married she would have a clear field with Tom. But Ann's love for Tom quickly returned when she saw the dashing young soldier and would have none of cousin Laura getting ahead of her. She thought with Laura out of the way she and Tom would get back together and she would marry him. Laura had many suitors. Among them was a schoolteacher, Bob Grayson who was "smitten" with her and wanted her for his wife.

Tom made arrangements with Laura to run away and get married. In the night she took what clothes she could carry on horseback and left home for her rendezvous with Tom.

She disappeared. Laura was eighteen at the time. Her family searched for her, but to no avail. As time went on, the people suspected she had run away with Tom Dooley. More search parties were formed and about three weeks after Laura disappeard, her horse returned, guant and with a broken halter. The searchers found where the horse had been tied to a tree. The soil was disturbed with horse tracks. After more search, some people thought Laura's body had been disposed of in the Yadkin River.

Some time later, Ann got into an argument with her sister, Perline Foster. Ann was deeply critical of her sister. Perline warned Ann that she better be careful or she would tell what she knew about Laura. Ann answered that Perline was just as guilty as she was. The authorities became suspicious of the two girls and began to question them. Perline became scared and broke down. She said Tom Dooley had killed Laura, that Ann took her to the site of the grave. Perline directed the search party to the place of burial. The search party spread out over the entire area. James Melton, James Isbell, David Horton and Bob Grayson were in the search party. James Isbell's horse shied from an area with loose dirt. The crowd started digging and found the body of Laura Foster. Her legs had been broken and what appeared to be a stab wound was found in her breast. Also found was the small bag of Laura's clothing. There was no doubt, it was Laura.


Laura's body was taken to the nearest town, funeral arrangements were made and she was buried on a high hill known ever since as "Laura Foster Hill".

The investigation began. One of the men, Bob Grayson, said he had found a handkerchief in the grave that belonged to Ann Melton. The authorities compiled information that led them to arrest Ann Melton and Tom Dooley, which finally resulted in the hanging of Tom Dooley. Several members of the search party fled the country. Anyone who was ever associated with Laura, was under suspicion. Not to be denied, Bob Grayson continued the search for the murderer of Laura, the girl he had hopes of marrying.

Then weeks after Laura's body had been found, a bunch of riders rode into town. Grayson was in the lead. Next came Tom Dooley with his hands shackled behind his back. Next was Jack Keaton with his hands tied. Following with guns at the ready were Ben Ferguson and Jack Adkins.

A crowd had gathered. Grayson told them that Tom Dooley had murdered Laura and Keaton and Ann Foster had helped him. That he had faked extradition papers and arrested them illegally. Tom Dooley, nonchalant as ever, asked that he be un-shackeled and proceeded to play a little tune on his banjo. The two prisoners were taken to Wilksboro and incarcerated by A. T. Ferguson. Jack Keaton furnished a plausible alibi and was later released. Ann Foster was quickly arrested. She and Tom were bound over for trial.

The local attorney, named Vance, agreed to defend Tom. Vance was able to negotiate a change of venue because the local people were up in arms against Tom. The trial began in Statesville, a distance of about thirty miles from Wilksboro with Judge Ralph Burton presiding. Evidence was produced that Tom Dooley and Ann Foster were having an affair. Feelings was running high even in Statesville. Then a witness, Betsy Scott was brought into court by Bob Grayson. She swore that she had talked to Laura Foster the day before she disappeared and Laura told her she was going to meet Tom Dooley. Try as he may, Vance could not get her to change her testimony. From the very beginning Tom insisted that he was not guilty, but he would say nothing against or about his relationship with others. The attorney tried in every way possible to draw him out, but Tom remained mute throughout the trial.

It was on the first day of May, 1866, that Tom Dooley rode through the streets of Statesville in a wagon. He sat on the top of his coffin on that bright and shiny day with his banjo on his knee, joking with the throng of people walking along. He picked his favorite ballad on the old banjo, laughing as the wagon neared the gallows. When the rope was placed around his neck, he joked with Sheriff W. E. Watson, "I would have washed my neck if I had known you were using such a nice clean new rope".

Asked in seriousness if he had any last words to say, Tom held his right hand and replied, "gentlemen, do you see this hand? Do you see it tremble? Do you see it shake? I never hurt a hair on the girl's head". The trap door was dropped.


Tom was buried in a cemetery in Happy Valley by the side of the old North Wilkesboro Road near Elksville, North Carolina. Near where Big Elkin Creek meets the Yadkin River a few miles northeast of Roaring River where the Parks brothers, John and Thomas settled.

Vance also defended Ann Melton. She was finally found not guilty, but the stigma followed her everywhere she went. She seemed not to care and continued to flirt and exploit others. Until the final requiem a few years later when she was killed by a wagon overturning. Some people believed she was a witch or the devil lived within her.

Gillam Bannon Grayson, Col. Grayson nephew from Laurel Bloomery, along with Henry Whittier went to Memphis to record the Ballad of Tom Dooley for Victor Records on October 1, 1929. It became popular in the late 1950s when the Kingston Trio re-released the song.This ballad tells the story.

Dula's last name was pronounced "Dooley," leading to some confusion in spelling over the years. (The pronunciation of a final "a" like "y" is an old feature in Appalachian speech, as in the term "Grand Ole Opry").

The doleful ballad was probably first sung shortly after the execution and is still commonly sung in North Carolina.


In the documentary Appalachian Journey (1991), Alan Lomax describes Frank Proffitt as the "original source" for the song. It is unclear exactly what Lomax means by this but, since it seems that the song predates Frank Proffitt's early version, it is likely that Lomax means that Proffitt's version is the one that has become most well known to us because the Kingston Trio derived their interpretation from Proffitt's. Certainly, there is an earlier known recording by Grayson and Whitter made in 1929, approximately ten years before Proffitt cut his own recording of the song.

GB Grayson and Henry Whitter sang together for only three years during the late '20s and early '30s, but they had a tremendous effect on country music; even contemporary performers continue to cover their songs, which include "Handsome Molly" (recorded by Dylan), "Cluck Old Hen," "Tom Dooley," "Rose Conley" and "Lee Highway Blues (Going Down the Lee Highway)."

Fiddler/singer Gilliam Banmon Grayson was born in Ashe Country, NC. As a young man, he made his living as a minstrel, traveling through mountain towns playing at fairs and dances. He eventually settled near the Tennessee-Virginia border, where he played with such noted musicians as Clarence Tom Ashley and Doc Walsh. An excellent fiddler, Grayson was also an exceptional singer, and after teaming up with Whitter frequently sang lead vocals on their recordings.

Guitarist/singer Henry Whitter was born in Fries, Virginia; while not an exceptional musician or singer, he was devoted to promoting old-time music and was able to arrange many recording sessions. Whitter and Grayson met at a fiddlers' convention in Mountain City, Tennessee in 1927. They teamed up, and by autumn of that year, Whitter had gotten them two record deals. They recorded eight songs for the Gennet label and six for Victor, among them the classic "Handsome Molly," which sold over 50,000 copies. In total, the two recorded 40 songs in three years. Grayson was killed in an auto accident in August, 1930 while hitchhiking; Whitter was devastated, but continued performing and occasionally recording until his 1941 death from diabetes.

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: CET
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 07:53 PM

What exactly is the point of Babelfish? It is evidently incapable of translating simple French words like faire and emporter and demain.

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: frogprince
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 10:52 PM

Babelfish has a little trouble translating that back to Enlish:

Make your prayer Tom Dooley That can always serve Fais your prayer Tom Dooley Demain you will die In front of your rum glass In the morning blafard Task at least to be a man Before the great departure Make your prayer Tom Dooley It is all that one can offer to you Fais your prayer Tom Dooley Demain you will die When at daybreak One comes to seek Pardonne with your love to you It is him your only sin Make your prayer Tom Dooley Before falling asleep Fais your prayer Tom Dooley Demain you will die Make your prayer Tom Dooley Y has more anything other to make Fais your prayer Tom Dooley to avoid the hell You finally will re-examine That which you liked too Emporte at least the hope to better like it there high Make your prayer Tom Dooley Demain you will die Fais your prayer Tom Dooley For you all will finish Make your prayer Tom Dooley It is the last my old man Fais your prayer Tom Dooley After bye, bye, good-bye

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: CET
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 09:39 PM

Here are the French lyrics from the Compagnons de la Chanson, as mentioned by Mrrzy back in 2000:

Fais ta prière Tom Dooley
Ça peut toujours servir
Fais ta prière Tom Dooley
Demain tu vas mourir

Devant ton verre de rhum
Dans le matin blafard
Tâche au moins d'être un homme
Avant le grand départ

Fais ta prière Tom Dooley
C'est tout ce qu'on peut t'offrir
Fais ta prière Tom Dooley
Demain tu vas mourir

Quand au lever du jour
On viendra te chercher
Pardonne à ton amour
C'est lui ton seul péché

Fais ta prière Tom Dooley
Avant de t'endormir
Fais ta prière Tom Dooley
Demain tu vas mourir

Fais ta prière Tom Dooley
Y a plus rien d'autre à faire
Fais ta prière Tom Dooley
Pour éviter l'enfer

Tu vas enfin revoir
Celle que tu aimais trop
Emporte au moins l'espoir
De mieux l'aimer là haut

Fais ta prière Tom Dooley
Demain tu vas mourir
Fais ta prière Tom Dooley
Pour toi tout va finir

Fais ta prière Tom Dooley
C'est la dernière mon vieux
Fais ta prière Tom Dooley
Après bye, bye, adieu

Translations of songs don't always work very well, but I like these lyrics a lot.

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: Gulliver
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 08:44 PM

I've had requests for the past few months to sing the Kingston Trio version of the song, but I can't bring myself to sing it if poor old Dooley was innocent...

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: GUEST,Skrep
Date: 25 Mar 07 - 02:05 AM

The best version of this song is on the Andy Griffith Show.

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: Scoville
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 10:17 AM

But implicitly more 'recently affecting' than even WWII, to my mind. Fascinating!

The attitude in the American South towards the Civil War is something that is very hard to explain unless you've lived there. Frankly, even most American Northerners have no clue how large it looms in many Southerners' minds. I'm sure this is at least in part because it is less recent than WWII and can thus be more effectively and thoroughly mythologized, but it's not that simple.

I had a history professor in college who was a Northerner, Princeton/Yale educated, whose Ph.D. was on the colonial history of Georgia. I had him for a Civil War and Reconstruction class. There were three very put-upon students from the South (two from Texas and one from Tennessee) in that class and by mid-semester, we all hated him. We weren't even what you would call dyed-in-the-wool Southerers (or we would not have been attending a very Leftist liberal arts college in the Midwest in the first place) and we were so sick of being asked about our "Southern points of view" we all wanted to tell him to get off his self-important Ivy League butt and try actually living Georgia for awhile so he would at least know what he was talking about.

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: Dave'sWife
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 08:15 PM

Here is a link to the Wikipedia entry on the song:
Tom Dooley (Song) Wikipedia Entry

Anyone can correct or edit on Wikipedia, just be sure to have a citable source. If you see some changes that need to be made, make them or send me a PM and I'll try and make them since I am a wikipedia volunteer.

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: Rowan
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 06:12 AM

A couple of posters have commented that, in the American South, passions are very long-lived about events in the distant past. When I visited SC in 1991 I thought I knew all the euphemisms for what most of us know as "The Civil War". Then the lovely 80+ year old lady who lived next door thought she'd do the gracious thing and invite the Australian neighbours for afternoon tea.

During our conversation I mentioned the TV series, which was on SCETV at the time. And she talked about the Civil War as "the late unpleasantness."

Graciousness itself! But implicitly more 'recently affecting' than even WWII, to my mind. Fascinating!

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: Scrump
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 04:16 AM

Probably not innocent--almost certainly an accessory if not the actual murderer. Most of what I've read theorizes that the actual murder was committed by, or at least at the behest of, Anne Melton (since Laura would have exposed her to VD through Tom). So, whatever happened, it seems doubtful that his hands were entirely clean.

Maybe I should have said 'wrongly convicted' instead of 'innocent'. (It's often the case that the 'innocent' person was far from innocent, but was just wrongly convicted of a crime they didn't do.)

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: GUEST,Black Hawk
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 02:53 AM

Surely the argument of the lyrics stating she was buried on a hill / mountain versus her being buried in a field is pointless.

If Tom buried her on a hill, after her body was discovered and identified, she would have been re-buried correctly, not just thrown back into the makeshift grave?

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: Stephen L. Rich
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 01:52 AM

There is a story (which may or may not be true) that Doc Watson's grandmother attended Ann Milton on her (Melton's) death bed. Watson's family lived on the other side of the mountain from Dula and Grayson. According to the story, Watson's grandmother swore that Ann Melton saw visions of the Fires of Hell at the foot of her bed just before she died. It could help to account for why people on Watson's side of the mountain were always a bit more sympathetic toward Dula than on Frank Proffitt's side.

Stephen Lee Rich

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: GUEST,LB
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 08:15 PM

Are there any known pictures of Tom Dula?

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: Scoville
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 01:25 PM

Probably not innocent--almost certainly an accessory if not the actual murderer. Most of what I've read theorizes that the actual murder was committed by, or at least at the behest of, Anne Melton (since Laura would have exposed her to VD through Tom). So, whatever happened, it seems doubtful that his hands were entirely clean.

Unless Don is right . . .

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: Don Firth
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 12:57 PM

It was the mysterious figure on the grassy knoll. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: Scrump
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 12:31 PM

Does that mean Tom Dooley was innocent, like Tim Evans?

"Go down, you murderers, go down." :-)

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: GUEST,BB
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 12:28 PM

in response to "The man credited with introducing the world to the ballad Tom Dooley was Frank Proffit who was a singer and banjo player/maker. He sang it for a collector (maybe one of the Lomaxes?) in the 30's."
The collectors of this song were Anne and Frank Warner. They were friendly with Alan Lomax, who first published the song.

From Traditional American Folk Songs from the Anne & Frank Warner Collection, ©1984, Anne Warner, p.289.

"Tom Dooley - Frank Proffitt, 1938
"This was one of the songs Frank Proffitt sang to us the first day we met him in June 1938. It was the first song he remembered hearing his father pick on a banjo. Frank's grandmother, Adeline Perdue, lived in Wilkes County and knew both Tom and Laura Foster, for Tom Dooley - really Tom Dula - did live. Tom was a native of Wilkes County and was known to be a wild one. He rode hard and drank hard and had a way with the ladies, especially Laura Foster. When the Civil War came he joined the Confederates and fought until he was taken prisoner and put in a stockade at Kinston, North Carolina. After the war he made his way home on foot, and took up his old ways. He renewed his relationship with Laura but also was involved with Ann Melton, though she had a husband and two children. One day, at Ann's instigation, many believed, Tom lured Laura Foster into riding off with him. On the hillside he stabbed Laura and buried her in a shallow grave. It is a sordid tale, well covered even by the New York papers who sent correspondents to cover the two trials, which lasted two years. Tom, to the end, refused to implicate Ann, though she had been arrested too, so eventually she was freed. Tom was convicted and hanged in 1868.
"Many songs were written about Tom Dooley, but it is the one that came down in Frank's family that eventually went around the world and is believed to have sparked the world-wide interest in American folk music."

This is the story, as the Proffitt family believed it to be, and as passed on to the Warners.

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: Scoville
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 09:03 AM

Re: syphilis/ricketts confusion. This is after the fact, but tertiary syphilis can cause bone disintegration that might have looked something like ricketts to the comparatively medically ignorant. If she had had it long enough that it was causing her that sort of trouble, though, she was way past curing, especially in the 1860's when there weren't any reliable cures even for early-stage VD.

And yes, nowadays, the clap is gonorrhea, but SouthernCelt is right; distinguishing between the two, or among any VD's, at the time was a lot harder than it is now. The 19th century was not a good time to get sick.

* * * * *

I thought everyone in ballads was buried high on a hill, whether they were in real life or not. It appears to be a bit of a lyrical convention to bury people on hills and mountain-tops.

* * * * *

Average size of American men in their 20's in the 1860's, according to Union Army records, was about 5'8" and 140 lb (the same size as I am, except I'm a girl). Women, predictably, were smaller; I don't know for sure but I would guess maybe 5'2" or so, since the average height of today's American women runs around 5'4" or 5'5". The way I learned the song, the grave was four feet long and three feet deep (no mention of width), so presumably it wouldn't have been difficult to get her in assuming she wasn't exceptionally tall. Three feet deep sounds awfully shallow to me, though. I would think that only digging down three feet--which would mean the body would be two feet or less from the surface--would still run the risk of having her dug up by animals and discovered quickly. My dog, who is not very big, digs almost that deeply looking for frogs and crawfish.

Sounds like a sloppy job to me.

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: SouthernCelt
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 07:07 AM

bubblyrat said: "But I was always led to believe that "The Clap" was Ghonnorhea, not Syphilis ..... ?? ( not that I"ve had either, I hasten to add !! ) "

Yes, you're right. After reading through this thread last night I decided to do a little internet research. "The Clap" was sometimes used to simply mean VD (STD to the modern-minded, particularly in the era before doctors could distinguish between the causes of syphilis and gonorrhea. Beginnining in the late 19th century with the advent of different treatments for the two diseases, the clap came to refer to gonorrhea which usually showed more acute symptoms (most notably a severe burning pain in the urethra when urinating) and sufferers were more apt to seek immediate help. Some sufferers of syphilis may have never realized they were infected since the first cycle of the disease may exhibit symptoms so mild as to be passed off as something minor.

I found a variety of possible origins for the "common" name, "The Clap". All were reasonable but there's no consensus on which is the likely origin. (Not that it matters, it isn't like the future of the universe hangs on someone finding the real origin of "The Clap.")

Oh...I've never had either...either.

SC

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: bubblyrat
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 05:59 AM

Re--the Syphilis cure......Old English expression :
"One night with Venus ;
      A lifetime with Mercury."

    But I was always led to believe that "The Clap" was Ghonnorhea, not Syphilis ..... ?? ( not that I"ve had either, I hasten to add !! )

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: Kevin L Rietmann
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 03:17 AM

Alan Lomax talks about the tune/event in the Appalachian Journey movie, which can be seen at Folkstreams.net. I think he says that he played a part in popularizing it by singing it as he travelled around the country, too.

Subject: RE: Tom Dooley didn't kill Laura Foster?!?
From: GUEST,Arkie
Date: 12 Mar 07 - 09:43 PM

I think he may have recorded Tom Dooley for Frank Warner who in turn introduced it to the Kingston Trio.