Lyr Req: In Kirkintilloch There's Nae Pubs

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Kirkintilloch There's Nae Pubs
From: GUEST,Geordie Hamilton's Daughter
Date: 20 Feb 23 - 12:02 PM

IN KIRKINTILLOCH THERE’S NAE PUBS

My daughter (Geordies Granddaughter) forwarded this post to me and I thought I’d try to answer some of the questions posed.
Geordie was born in 1924 in Lennoxtown near Kirkintilloch where he grew up. After the war he worked as a clock maker, coal miner and a Security Officer in the General Post Office in Edinburgh.
He loved music and singing starting with opera, he then became interested in Scottish Folk Lore and music in the 60’s and was well regarded in this field. He played the mandolin and other instruments but loved singing and storytelling. He had a wide knowledge of Scottish folk music and was a go to person for many on the Folk scene.
He wrote Kirkintilloch Pubs in the early 60’s. The Corries recorded his song on their album (when they were a trio).
George died in 1992. Unfortunately neither my sister or I have managed to save any of his music archive but we grew up with many musical memories in our childhood.
Hope this helps in some way.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Kirkintilloch There's Nae Pubs
From: GUEST,ottery
Date: 22 Jul 21 - 01:00 PM

You're welcome! Maybe you'll hear back eventually. It can sometimes take time.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Kirkintilloch There's Nae Pubs
From: GUEST,#
Date: 22 Jul 21 - 11:35 AM

Thank you. I've not yet heard back from either people I emailed, so likely I won't be finding much more about the song. But if the information isn't out there then it isn't out there. Thanks for asking your mum, and despite not knowing either of you in real life, please pass along my thanks.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Kirkintilloch There's Nae Pubs
From: GUEST,ottery
Date: 22 Jul 21 - 11:28 AM

My mother said that she heard it from the Corries - she didn't specify whether from an LP or live.

I actually asked her this weekend when I went to visit her, but it's been so hot that I completely forgot about it.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Kirkintilloch There's Nae Pubs
From: GUEST,#
Date: 17 Jul 21 - 12:51 PM

You are most welcome, ottery. Your remark is very much appreciated.

As more info becomes available it will get posted here. One question: would you be kind enough to ask your mother when and where she first encountered it?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Kirkintilloch There's Nae Pubs
From: GUEST,ottery
Date: 17 Jul 21 - 12:44 PM

Thanks for doing all this research, cnd and #. I learned the song when I was small from a Corries LP, so it's great to know a bit more about the man behind it, either its author or preserver according to the Will Swan interview. My mother can't see the name Kirkintilloch on a map without singing the first verse.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Kirkintilloch There's Nae Pubs
From: GUEST,#
Date: 17 Jul 21 - 11:12 AM

It's credited to a Frank McLaughlin ??

For some reason the link you posted is giving an error code. I think the following fixes it:

https://www.musixmatch.com/lyrics/The-Rumjacks/Kirkintilloch

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Kirkintilloch There's Nae Pubs
From: cnd
Date: 17 Jul 21 - 11:06 AM

I believe it's the same song, just under the name Kirkillintoch rather than the whole thing.

www.musixmatch.com/lyrics/The-Rumjacks/Kirkintilloch

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Kirkintilloch There's Nae Pubs
From: GUEST,#
Date: 17 Jul 21 - 10:58 AM

I think that refers to a different song. But your posts certainly begin to narrow down a possible date for the song's inception.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Kirkintilloch There's Nae Pubs
From: cnd
Date: 17 Jul 21 - 10:36 AM

Glad to help! It doesn't necessarily mean it's out to lunch -- some links I saw thought he saved the song rather than wrote it, in particular this interview between a blog called Shite 'n' Onions and Will Swan (link)

[search that page of 'kirk' or 'Geordie' to find the relevant segment.]

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Kirkintilloch There's Nae Pubs
From: cnd
Date: 17 Jul 21 - 10:32 AM

Glad to help, Guest,#

I searched some trying to confirm Jim Carroll's question back to 2014, I couldn't find anything in particular about barrels rolling down the street, though it remains possible, as newspapers.com (the service I use) doesn't have much coverage of overseas area, and the coverage of the area it does have is predominantly London.

There were temperance halls in the area dating back to the 1870s or before, however the first time I saw it being formally voted as a dry area (after a brief skim; this was not an exhaustive search) was in 1920. Though the Scottish Temperance Polls started in 1913, news of Kirkintilloch voting to stay dry or not didn't reach any papers I have access to, though in 1920 the area decided to be dry by a strong margin (The American Issue, December 4th 1920, p. 3 [note: a prohibitionist paper who wrote under the motto "A Saloonless Nation and a Stainless Flag"])

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Kirkintilloch There's Nae Pubs
From: GUEST,#
Date: 17 Jul 21 - 10:18 AM

That means my supposition that the song is older is out to lunch. Thanks again, cnd. I very much appreciate your input.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Kirkintilloch There's Nae Pubs
From: cnd
Date: 17 Jul 21 - 10:02 AM

I've also found several pages that claim Hamilton went on to work for the post office in the area. Apparently he also only liked to sing people a verse or two of his songs at a time:

Learned over a period of years, a verse at a time, from Geordie Hamilton -- a man who tantalizes other singer by singing them a verse or two of a gem, then saying, "Ah, you don't really want to hear that", and singing something else. A song learned from Geordie is a testimony to patience, a great man and a giant of a singer. (source)

The book Fuzz to Folk by Dr. Ian Green wrote that his repertoire of songs ran "into the hundreds" (link). He was also a regular patron of the pub Sandy Bells.

As an aside, searches for Geordie Hamilton seem to be cluttered with a character from some book called Island of Sheep by John Buchan; if you don't know it, a handy searching trick is to put a minus sign at the end of your search phrase for anything you don't want to see results related to. So for example, my search was "geordie hamilton" scotland -buchan -"island of sheep"

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Kirkintilloch There's Nae Pubs
From: GUEST,#
Date: 17 Jul 21 - 09:50 AM

Thank you, cnd. In the parlance, you are a star.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Kirkintilloch There's Nae Pubs
From: cnd
Date: 17 Jul 21 - 09:44 AM

A slight wrinkle that could explain why you're having so much trouble finding info about Mr. Hamilton: he was credited by the Corries as being named Geordie Hamilton.

Here's the entire excerpt from the reverse of Those Wild Corries!, Fontana TL5337 (1966):

It seems to us that the idea of a 'dry' town in the middle of whisky-drinking Scotland is as weird and wonderful as a clockwork orange, but at the last count the town of KIRKINTILLOCH was still without a pub. The song was written by our good friend Geordie Hamilton who was born in the town. I should add that when we last met he seemed to be coping very well with his unfortunate start in life.

This is at least partially confirmed by a Geordie Hamilton being credited with several songs in Henry's Songbook and a page on the Mainly Norfolk site about the song Bonny Woodhall.

Here's a quote about Hamilton from Martin Carthy in 2004:

Geordie Hamilton was a songwriter and coal miner from around Kirkintilloch who I met in Edinburgh in 1961 through Hamish Henderson. He was an exceptionally graceful singer with a beautiful lyrical sense and I always thought of Bonny Woodhall as his party piece. He would often ask people if they wanted his songs and I am one who gratefully took up the offer although I didn't feel ready to sing it publicly until much more recently, but it's always been lurking.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Kirkintilloch There's Nae Pubs
From: GUEST,#
Date: 15 Jul 21 - 12:46 PM

"Kilsyth, Kirkintilloch, Wick and Lerwick were amongst those turned dry after local vetoes were held following the passing of the 1913 Temperance Act."

That is from https://www.scotsman.com/whats-on/arts-and-entertainment/history-scotlands-dry-temperance-towns-1483804

I suspect that then we'd be looking for a George Hamilton born in the late 1800s.

Assuming the remark from GUEST Date: 25 Jan 14 - 04:43 PM is accurate,

' The song" In Kirkintilloch There's Nae Pubs" was written by my uncle George "The Duke" Hamilton & was recorded by The Corries. ', then possibly there will be some info that way.

(However, Google renders nothing so far.)

*******************************

I've written to two separate organizations in or near Kirkintilloch and will report back if my emails are answered. That's it for now.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Kirkintilloch There's Nae Pubs
From: GUEST,#
Date: 15 Jul 21 - 12:05 PM

ottery, I think because George Hamilton is such a 'wide-spread' name, that an avenue of investigation would involve tracing the year the song was written. It's post-temperance, but that still leaves lots of years. I'll see if I can come up with anything and get back here sometime today I hope.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Kirkintilloch There's Nae Pubs
From: GUEST,ottery
Date: 13 Jul 21 - 04:13 AM

Fun song - does anyone know anything more about the writer George Hamilton? Have google'd, but turned up nothing.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Kirkintilloch There's Nae Pubs
From: GUEST,#
Date: 12 Jul 21 - 08:27 PM

https://www.irish-folk-songs.com/there-are-no-pubs-in-kirkintilloch-lyrics-and-chords.html

I cannot locate sheet muisc, but that is The Corries' version with chords.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Kirkintilloch There's Nae Pubs
From: GUEST,laurie
Date: 12 Jul 21 - 05:39 PM

How about the sheet music?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Kirkintilloch There's Nae Pubs
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Jan 14 - 03:48 AM

I remember spending my 21st birthday in Glasgow and heading for Kirkie for a pint - only to find......
Is there any truth in the story that it became alcohol free in the 1930s when an overturned brewers dray led to rioting by unemployed men scrambling to avail themselves of the beer barrels rolling about the road?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Kirkintilloch There's Nae Pubs
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jan 14 - 04:43 PM

The song" In Kirkintilloch There's Nae Pubs" was written by my uncle George "The Duke" Hamilton & was recorded by The Corries.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Kirkintulloch
From: TamthebamfraeScotland
Date: 01 Nov 01 - 12:08 PM

Thank you.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Kirkintulloch
From: Scabby Douglas
Date: 01 Nov 01 - 12:06 PM

in the forum - previous discussion

CHeers

Steven

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Kirkintulloch
From: TamthebamfraeScotland
Date: 01 Nov 01 - 12:05 PM

Yes!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Kirkintulloch
From: Scabby Douglas
Date: 01 Nov 01 - 12:03 PM

In Kirkintilloch...

In Kirkintilloch, there's nae pubs, and I'm sure you'll wonder why
My brother and me, we went on a spree, And drank the pubs a' dry, a' dry, We drank the pubs a' dry.

My granpa' he worked doon the pits and so did ma faither tae
Ye work like a fool when ye leave the school, and ye drink on a Setterday, ma lads, drink on a Setterday.

is that the one?

Though t it was trad.

Cheers

Steven

Subject: In Kirkintulloch
From: TamthebamfraeScotland
Date: 01 Nov 01 - 11:56 AM

Hello my name is Tom,

And I'm looking for the words to a song by George Hamilton called In Kirkintulloch, it was recoreded by The Corrie Folk Trio.

I would really grateful if anyone could help me. Tom

Subject: RE: In Kirkentulluch there'e nae pubs lyrics?
From: The Shambles
Date: 09 Oct 00 - 05:18 PM

For those who are not sure, 'dry' or 'wet', refer to areas where the sale of alchohol was not permitted.

Having live in such an area it was apparent to me that there where more people with serious drink problems living in these areas than in places where there were pubs.

Subject: RE: In Kirkentulluch there'e nae pubs lyrics?
From: seaayr
Date: 09 Oct 00 - 04:43 PM

hi sorry can't contribute to the lyrics quest but could only say the place is spelled; kirkintilloch,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, means 'fort on the hill'...nothin to do with churches.....built on the antonine wall,,,one of the first pubs opened in town centre, after the town went 'wet', in late 60's,,, if not the first one, was called 'the antonine',,,,my sister in law worked in it a number of years ago,,,70's...oh dear.....tempus fugit,,,,they probably said that there too,,,the romans that is,,,,,when i lived in 'kirky' the line of the antonine wall ran thru back garden,,,, cheers,,,,raises glass,,,,,,,,, graham..........

Subject: Lyr Add: IN KIRKINTULLOCH
From: TamthebamfraeScotland
Date: 09 Oct 00 - 04:24 PM

The Lyrics to IN KIRKINTULLOCH are:-

CHORUS: In Kirkintulloch there's nae pubs
And I'm sure you wonder why
My brother and me we went on a spree
And we drank the pubs a' dry a' dry
We drank the pubs a' dry

1.
My Grandpaw he worked doon the pit
And so did my father tae
Ye work like a mule when ye leave the school
And drink on a Saturday my lads
Drink on a Saturday

2.
The gaffer doon the pit my lads
Could scarce believe his een
For my brother and me we howked mair coal
Wi his latest cutting machine ma lads
Wi his latest cutting machine

3.
My faither he wis a Glesga man
My mither cam frae Troon
They baith hae their say the other day
It's time you settled doon my lads
It's time you settled doon

4.
So I'll just get married lads and hae a family tae
And use their mits as they work in pits
And drink on a Saturday my lads
Drink on a Saturday.

Subject: RE: LYR ADD:There Are No Pubs In Kirkintilloch
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 26 Nov 98 - 05:40 PM

Thanks Wolfgang - even if the other posting was last week my memory's far from perfect.

Regards
John

Subject: RE: LYR ADD:There Are No Pubs In Kirkintilloch
From: Wolfgang
Date: 26 Nov 98 - 05:40 AM

We had thisone before in the Forum in this thread . John, I do not provide this link to make you feel like having done an unnessary work, but for the interesting differences. The older posting is much more "Scottish" (with translations) and it's worth to compare it with your version.

Wolfgang

Subject: Lyr Add: IN KIRKINTILLOCH THERE'S NAE PUBS
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 25 Nov 98 - 11:10 PM

This one came from the Tartan Army site:

"I don't know who wrote this. I got it from an early Corries record when
the duo was a trio."

There Are No Pubs In Kirkintilloch


Chorus:
In Kirkintilloch there's nae pubs
And I'm sure you'll wonder why,
My brother and me, we went on a spree,
We drank the pubs a' dry, a' dry,
Drank the pubs a' dry.

My Granpaw he worked down the pit
And so did my faither tae,
You work like a mule when you leave the school
And you drink on a Saturday, my lads,
Drink on a Saturday (Ch)

The gaffer doon the pit my lads,
Could scarce believe his een,
For my brother and me we howked mair coal,
Than his latest cuttin' machine, my lads,
His latest cuttin' machine (Ch)

My faither he was a Glesga man
And my mither come fae Troon,
They baith did say the ither day,
It's time you settled doon, my lads,
It's time you settled doon. (Ch)

So I think I'll just get married lads
And hae a family tae,
Then we'll use our mits and work in the pits
And drink on a Saturday my lads,
Drink on a Saturday. (Ch)

Subject: RE: In Kirkentulloch there's nae pubs take 2
From: Alex
Date: 15 Aug 97 - 11:29 PM

Well, now you seem to have three sets of the words! Awrabest - Alex, Chicago -ex of Perth, Scotland.

Subject: RE: In Kirkentulloch there's nae pubs take 2
From: Simon
Date: 14 Aug 97 - 04:00 AM

Alex Thanks for the words, I've been looking for ages, much appreciated.

Simon (New Zealand)

Subject: Lyr Add: IN KIRKINTILLOCH THERE'S NAE PUBS
From: Alex
Date: 06 Aug 97 - 11:21 PM

IN KIRKINTILLOCH THERE'S NAE PUBS

(NOTE: Kirkintilloch is a small village near Glasgow to the northwest. At the time of the song's writing it was, because of the success of the Temperance movement, a dry town. These days, there are at least a couple of pubs.)

CHORUS: In Kirkintilloch, there's nae pubs, (there are no pubs)
And Ah'm shair ye'll wonder why, (I'm sure you will)
Ma brither an' me, we went oan a spree, (my brother and)
We drank the pubs a' dry, a' dry, drank the pubs a' dry. (all dry)

Ma granpaw he worked doon the pit, (Grandfather; down the coal mine)
An' so did ma faither tae, (so did my father, also)
Ye work like a mule fae ye leave the school, (from when you leave school)
An' ye drink oan a Setterday, me lads, ye drink oan a Setterday. (on a Saturday) CHORUS

The gaffer doon the pit, me lads, (foreman down the mine)
Can scarce believe his een. (scarcely believe his eyes)
Ma brither an me we howked mair coal (gathered mor coal)
Than his latest cuttin' machine, me lads, his latest cuttin' machine. CHORUS

Ma faither, he wis a Glesca man, (a Glasgow man)
Ma mither cam fae Troon. (my mother came from Troon (Ayrshire))
An' e'ch did say the ither day, (each said the other day)
"It's time ye settled doon, me lad, it's time ye settled doon". (settled down) CHORUS

So Ah think Ah'll jist get merriet, lads, (just get married)
An' hae a faimly tae, (have a family also)
An' yase their mitts an' work in the pits, (use their hands and)
An' drink oan a Setterday, me lads, an' drink oan a Setterday.

Subject: In Kirkentulloch there's nae pubs take 2
From: Simon Beaton
Date: 01 Aug 97 - 05:12 AM

Still looking for this, perhaps some more lines might jog a memory

In Kirkentulloch there's no pubs and I'm sure you'll wonder why
My brother and me we went on a spree and we drank the pubs all dry
all dry
we drank the pubs all dry

My father he was a Glasgow man, my mother came from Troon
They both did say the other day it's time you settled doon
my lad its time you sttled doon

Subject: In Kirkentulluch there'e nae pubs lyrics?
From:
Date: 27 Jul 97 - 12:44 AM

Anybody know the lyrics to the above song sung by the corries about 30 years ago

In Kirkentulloch there's no pubs and I'm sure you'll wonder why My brother and me we went on a spree and we dranhk te pubs all dry all dry

Also by the Corries There was Johhny McGilll Do and me and a couple or two or three went on a spree oneday We had a bob or 2 we which we knew how to blew And the beer and wisky flew..