Famous Mudcatters

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: GUEST,McGrath of Altcar
Date: 18 Aug 03 - 01:03 PM

I have played Ozzy Osbourne's Grand piano.

I recently used a microphone used on many Coldplay songs.

A telefunken. Very Good.

McGrath of Altcar

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: kendall
Date: 18 Aug 03 - 12:58 PM

How about our own Jean Richie? AKA,Kytrad.

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Aug 03 - 09:22 AM

Found this thread while looking for something else.

I've had dinner with R. Buckminster Fuller. He was a lousy dinner conversationalist and a rather nasty personality.

On the plus side, I've met Seamus Kennedy. He's the opposite of Bucky Fuller, but just as smart. (Don't forget to send the money, Seamus.)

I have a copy of Christopher Moore's wonderful book "Lamb: the memoirs of Jesus's boyhood friend Biff." It's autographed to me. I also have autographed copies of Dana Stabenow's science fiction and autographed copies from other authors.

I used to have an autographed picture Pierre Mendes France too.

None of this means much. Christopher Moore was looking lost in a publisher's booth, giving the books away. Dana is a wonderful person and I consider her a friend. Pierre M.F. I never met; I was in cub scouts and thought he had a cool name.

Some folks think I'm famous. My neices and nephews, for instance. "Wow, I found your name on the Internet!"

I'd rather be famous for getting kids to read, or introducing them to music, or helping them reach adulthood without too many problems, than for designing cars or some new form of packaging. Fame with a lower-case "F" is fine with me (now fortune, with an upper-case "F," can come around anytime!).

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: Benjamin
Date: 31 Aug 00 - 03:29 AM

Ah yes! Meeting the Queen of the World! Thanks for reminding me Mbo.
I don't know that I will be playing classical guitar proffesionally though. The compition is brutal!

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: GUEST,Rich(stupidbodhranplayerwhodoesn'tknowbetter
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 01:15 PM

I've had the occasion to try Cathy Jordan's and Frank Torpey's bodhrans when they played for our folk music society.

More inportantly, I've played with a good number of brilliant musicians who'll never be known outside of their own little circles but nonetheless play some mighty music. I agree with what's been said previously. Famous is for other types of music. It's nice to have some big heavies to aspire towards, but I'll take plain, regular people who play like they don't need the money. Musicians that don't look down your nose at you. Musicians that make you feel welcome, sometimes without saying a word.

All the best,
Rich

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: Mbo
Date: 29 Aug 00 - 09:30 PM

That's cool, Ben! BTW if all works out, you'll be meeting the Queen of the World! Talk about famous!

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: Benjamin
Date: 29 Aug 00 - 08:45 PM

I've got a following building up! And I'm not even playing out much at all! Give me some time!

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 29 Aug 00 - 08:21 PM

Mbo, how does your book define fame? I know what you mean but how can somebody be famous if "most people don't know who he is"? ;-)

Jon

(Who has heard of J Scott Skinner)

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 29 Aug 00 - 06:47 PM

I've slept in the same bed as Les Barker and Sid Kipper and Martin Carthy and Jim Couza. I've also kissed Roy Bailey and finished off June Tabor's sandwiches.

LTS, who has a sad life really.

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Aug 00 - 05:10 PM

I once had a shit right after Kendall in the same outhouse at Fox Hollow.

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: Mbo
Date: 29 Aug 00 - 03:26 PM

I played Elvis Presley's piano! Nyah!

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: kendall
Date: 29 Aug 00 - 03:20 PM

I played Pete Seegers banjo, Tommie Makems banjo, Wilf Carters guitar, and, Elton Britts guitar. Ramblin' Jack played and liked my Taylor.

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: LR Mole
Date: 29 Aug 00 - 02:09 PM

I think the "brushes with fame" stories deserve their own thread. I, myself, once peed next to Graham Nash, through in a different urinal. My comment was, as I recall," You guys are really good." Not trenchant, perhaps, but heart- felt at the time.He's still playing, and we both, as far as I know, are still peeing.

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: Mbo
Date: 29 Aug 00 - 11:33 AM

Fame doesn't equal money. That's why we say "Fame AND fortune." They can work separately of each other. James Scott Skinner is famous in my book, though most people don't even know who he is.

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: reggie miles
Date: 29 Aug 00 - 11:16 AM

I've never strove for the illusive fame factor in any of my musical endeavors, only to play, what I play at, as well as I can and have fun doing it.

Does playing alot of music automatically make you famous? I don't know, I don't think so.

Presenting something unusual and entertaining enough to tickle and or inspire others has been a worthwhile goal.

That said, it would be nice to reap enough financial success to support myself in the style to which I'd like to become accustomed to. ;O)

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: Susan from California
Date: 28 Aug 00 - 11:05 PM

One of the Baldwin Brothers said the "F" word in front of me--I think it was Billy, but I'm not sure. I've met a fair amount of US stars and politicians because I used to be extremely active politically, but when the subject comes up, that's the story I tell most of the time...

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: GUEST,beachcomber
Date: 28 Aug 00 - 08:23 PM

I used to own and run a small restaurant in the south of Ireland, (CO. Waterford in fact) Because of it I've met, (over some 10years) Liam Clancy, Paddy Clancy RIP, Tom Clancy RIP, Tommy Makem, Finbarr Furey, Paddy Reilly, Ronnie Drew, Barney McKenna, John Sheehan, Mick Moloney, Jimmy Crowley,Diarmuid O'Leary(of the "Bards") and Cyril Tawney, the great "Shanty man" from Devonshire in England. I have also had Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio the Movie actress and her Director husband Pat O'Connor in my establishment, and have had the pleasure of a chat with Anthony Hopkins when he was filming near by. God , none of them seemed to have been ,in any way, affected by their noteriety. In fact, they seemed to be almost grateful to be accepted and treated as regular people . Many years ago I remember Gregory Peck, Leo Genn and Noel Purcell as well as John Heuston, working on Moby Dick, in Youghal, a nearby town, and they also seemed to merge easily with the local populace . Do we put too great an expectation of self importance on those who have achieved a great measure of fame, when perhaps, they are not really willing to accept the burden that it often brings with it?

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: JedMarum
Date: 28 Aug 00 - 08:03 PM

I heard, guinnesschik ... that Seamus; he's such a kidder!

;-)

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: guinnesschik
Date: 28 Aug 00 - 07:45 PM

(Big Loopy Grin After Reading This Thread) I certainly feel famous, having had Seamus Kennedy mention our li'l ol' band. *Sigh* Maybe someday! (Jed, are you listening?)

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: kendall
Date: 28 Aug 00 - 04:18 PM

I once got a fan letter from Germany, That was very gratifying. A nephew was looking through records in California and came across "Lights along the shore". He had no idea that Folk Legacy records was that well distributed.Another time, my grand daughter was very upset because the teacher didnt believe her grand dad was Kendall Morse. Its those little bits of recognition that I appreciate, such as the time a little boy said to me "Do you know you are famous?" Had it been an adult, I probably would have given him a humourous answer, but, with a child I had to think up a straight answer. Not easy for me.

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: Jed at Work
Date: 28 Aug 00 - 03:17 PM

It certainly, (rightfully) places our Art in the big leagues!

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: Homeless
Date: 28 Aug 00 - 02:13 PM

There was recently a folk festival near here that was sponsored by Front Porch Music. While I didn't get the opportunity to attend the fest, I was reading in their newsletter about who played.

One of the bands was Weavermania, and in the "bio" of the band members, I came across this quote...

'Mark Dvorak takes Peter Seeger's role. An award-winning recording artist and performer, Mark has been called "a folk singer's folk singer" who follows unerringly in the footsteps of Woody, Lead Belly, Big Bill, and Art Thieme.'

I don't know that this says that Art is "famous," but it definitely seems to say that he is well known enough and good enough that any semi-serious folk fan should recognise the name.

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Aug 00 - 02:49 AM

Lena-

That's a beautiful story.

Carol

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: Lena
Date: 10 Aug 00 - 02:41 AM

The italian(politically and'folkly')correnspondent of Martin Carthy's crowd is Nouva Compagnia di Canto Popolare,an AMAZING band blaying medieval napolitan music.Last summer,as a technician,I had to help puttig up a performance in an old gothic abbey.It featured the Nuova Compagnia singing together with other ethnic players.(Very beautiful show....unforgettable setting).One of my mates was from Naples.Being twenty six,she was born and brought up listening to Nuova Compagnia's music.during their reharsing,she kept on hiding behind columns listening to them,with tears in her eyes .The last day,it was raining and we were all packed in a dining room.I don't know how it happened,but the singer of the Nuova Compagnia started singing my friend's favourite lullaby and her,from the other side of the table,couldn't help joining her with her beautiful deep voice.It was an unforgettable feeling.

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 09 Aug 00 - 07:25 AM

George Thorogood once walked past behind my back, as I was reading the George Thorogood tour poster on the wall at Rock City in Nottingham. Shoot but that fella can play.

Skipjack

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: Amergin
Date: 09 Aug 00 - 06:31 AM

I met Anne Rice at a book signing....was also on the news during the New Carissa spill, talking to the vultures....

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: Noreen
Date: 09 Aug 00 - 04:31 AM

Nynia, did you find out anything about the Mudcat Restaurant? Presumably there is some connection to this wonderful place, as I don't think mudcats are native to Ireland. :0)

Noreen

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: Melani
Date: 09 Aug 00 - 02:02 AM

I'm really well-known on my block. And my husband went to kindergarten with Steve Goodman.

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 09 Aug 00 - 01:11 AM

Rick, I hope that one day you do manage to generate sufficient interest to get the "old timers" on. I can't claim to know the names but armed with that knowledge, I would most certainly turn out if they were on round here!

Jon

(who has heard both Vin Garbut and Harvey Andrews live - very different performers but both "world class" IMO)

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: CamiSu
Date: 09 Aug 00 - 01:03 AM

Ah Dorrie--

They are famous in our community, and you may have noticed that it goes all the way around the world. And usually they are more famous for having brought joy to some people than for making a pile of money. I found out last spring that I am famous in my town because most every kid under age 17 learned to ski from me (I have the priviledge of teaching the beginners--more fun I'm not allowed to have!) You know I'd rather have that than have a bunch of joes I'm never going to meet think I'm cool cause I'm cute and can maybe sing a verse or two...like say Britney Spears!

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: Jed at Work
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 04:47 PM

... while we're listing our brushes with near fame; I spent a wonderful day in Santa Cruz Bolivia with the daughter of the General credited with killing Che Guevara.

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: SINSULL
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 04:37 PM

Paul Simon's brother let me touch Paul Simon's guitar once. Does that count? And I danced with Bryan Highland's brother once - "Itsy Bitsy Teeny Weeny Yellow Polka Dot Bikini". Bryan autographed my sneakers. And I visited the people who live next door to Luke Duke's father. Excuse me now. I am going to go get a life.
Mary

My cousin was the detective who arrested the men who killed all those people at the Wendy's in Flushing. She was struck by lightening the year before. I liked it better when I thought Dylan really was here. Sorry for the pathetic rant. I'm going now.

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: Nynia
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 04:12 PM

Hey maybe it's Mudcat itself that's famous. There's a Mudcat Restaurant in South William Street, Dublin. I'd been passing the place for two months before I noticed the name.......observant or what........lol.

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 07 Aug 00 - 10:21 PM

Absolutely spot on Jon. It's one of the reasons that trying to bring an artist into a new area is well nigh impossible these days. Very few traditionally based artists who hadn't already gone National by the late seventies, surface these days. It's simply a matter of money. There ain't none to pay them!

For example: I've been trying to get interest up in Toronto for several wonderful veteran musicians. They all have many albums, lots of fans (in their region) and have skills that are mind boggling. Toronto is a huge city with a vibrant folk culture, but I've hardly found anyone who is even aware of the existence of: Bob Coltman, Freddie Vine (the finest acoustic blues picker in the universe), John Herald (who practically wrote the book on acoustic flatpicking), or Songwriter extraordinaire Gerry Rasmussen.

Recently a friend of mine attended a concert by Vin Garbutt, and confessed that he was truly amazed at the tiny turnout. Harvey Andrews did well enough here, but a few of us really used our mailing lists to the max, and made lots of phone calls telling everyone "I don't CARE if you've never heard of him, get your ass out to the show..you'll LOVE it!

Promoters want to make money (or at least not lose a bundle) so they make the same choices year after year. They KNOW that Eric Bogle will fill the place (even with the same songs) so he becomes a regular visitor. (and always is entertaining)

Nope you're right, folkies are strictly regional these days. If I didn't teach most of the year I could never afford to be on the road for the two months that I'm outta town.

My friend Garnet Rogers keeps a pretty high profile, but it involves seven months a year on the road, and that is hellish. He must have the constitution of an ox!

The only way most folk singers could actually get truly famous these days is to murder someone famous.

Rick

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: Naemanson
Date: 07 Aug 00 - 05:23 PM

Hear! Hear! Jon.

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 07 Aug 00 - 03:23 PM

Well Bonnie, I have played folk music for about as long as I can remember and started going to folk clubs and sessions around 1978 but it wasn't until last year that I heard of most of the names, including, Rick Fielding mentioned in this thread and I would lay money that nobody in the local clubs/ sessions will have heard of them either.

I don't think of myself as being specially ignorant for not hearing of these people but I do think that fame within folk music can be far more regional than one would imagine. Something else to thank forums such as Mudcat is that they do make you more aware of performers in other countries.

Jon

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 07 Aug 00 - 11:33 AM

One day about a year after my father had died (I was 17) I was looking through his briefcase, which was filled with papers. I found a copy of "The Pharmaceutical Journal" with (surprise, surprise) his picture on the cover. He had been named "Pharmaceutical Man of the Year". I read the story and was fascinated that I hardly knew who they were talking about. Many doctors and druggists were quoted telling anecdotes about him, he was credited as having a major role in the developement of several products (including Coricidin) and in general, appeared to be known and respected far and wide....in pharmaceutical circles. The only part I recognised was a brief mention of his "being married with one child".

Yup there's fame and there's fame.

Rick

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: Mbo
Date: 07 Aug 00 - 11:07 AM

Worked with Alan Stivell???!!! YES! The man flat out RULES!

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: Dorrie
Date: 07 Aug 00 - 09:08 AM

I personally meant fame as in people who we have heard of and who are publicly respected dorrie xxx

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 07 Aug 00 - 08:02 AM

I figure being famous can be within specific areas of expertise.
Being a dietitian I may know certain nutritionist who have become famous within the field of nutrition for their contributions. They are famous amongst those of us interested in the study of nutrition. They may have not become wealthy or world renown but their efforts are recognized within the circle of nutritionist.

Before I became involved in folk music I did not know who Rick Fielding was, but once I start to become more aquainted with other musicians and those within the folk community, it was very apparent to me that Rick's dedication & contributions to the music has reach a level of recognition that I would consider famous amongst the folk music community.
I guess that is how I define famous then, the contributions someone has made in their field.

Bonnie

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: kendall
Date: 07 Aug 00 - 07:49 AM

Right on sir

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: Naemanson
Date: 07 Aug 00 - 05:19 AM

What is fame anyway? What makes a person famous? We've been talking about it here without defining terms. Some of the people mentioned above as being famous are strangers to me.

My definition has always been related to popularity. Thus someone like Rick Fielding or Kendall can be defined as famous within the confines of our community. But outside of the Mudcat their fame is limited. When I Show Rick's tape to my friends and talk about how great it is they just look blank. We all recognize Rod Stewart or Gregory Peck and consider them famous. Paul Mills has been contributing to the Stan Rogers Memoriam Thread. Many people would have no idea who he is but those who are Stan fans do. Does that make him famous?

Another measure of fame is money. If you add this into the mix folkies don't even show their heads above water. We are all familiar with the personal power rich people wield. How much money do you think our resident famous folkies make? Consider Bill Staines who spends so much of his life on the road. He travels in a minivan driving alone down that long lonely highway from venue to venue. He is famous within the folk world but not exactly rich.

I guess I don't quite know what we should do about fame. We need to define it here for our puposes.

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: Lena
Date: 07 Aug 00 - 12:34 AM

What's this 'famous'thing?! Because of the 'family business',I've seen a couple of people you named.They're normal human beings. If it's about talent and what you've given to people,fair enouhg,I have a few ones I wanted to hugh to say"thank you"on behalf of hearing fellow humans.I did it.That's it. (But as a bretonist,i'm proud to say my dad worked with Alan stivell in times when i liked him.And uh,James Brown. I'm proud of that too.).I don't see what the fame frenzy has to do with folk.If you tell me well,so we can have 'autorities'to consult with at the Mudcat...that's nice.

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: kendall
Date: 06 Aug 00 - 09:55 PM

Pretty voices and folk music dont seem to go together as a rule

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: mg
Date: 06 Aug 00 - 04:42 PM

regarding the pretty voice syndrome: to me it is such an auditory thing that I really like the pretty voices..the prettier the better...I can think of some good songwriters that can't sing very well, and some people who pass on good songs......but what can I say...I am shallow...I'll go for the pretty voice every time..

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: kendall
Date: 06 Aug 00 - 09:11 AM

Sheila you sure do count, thanks so much, glad you enjoy my tape.

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: John Moulden
Date: 05 Aug 00 - 03:12 PM

I don't like the term "source" singer but can understand why it's used. I, like everyone else, give a great deal of authority to the person from whom I first heard a song which is significant for me. They have made clear to me that this is a great song; that is much to their credit. However, I like to unravel, if I can, the way they got the song; so I go back as far as I can and as widely as possible.

What I find out from the past doesn't necessarily have greater authority than the way I first heard it. In this circumstance, the "source" of the song is not necessarily the best example to follow. One of my research interests, a poet called Hugh McWilliams, wrote (among other songs) "When a Man's in Love" but the way he wrote it is so wordy that it is not really singable. It needed all the people who sang it until the present day to turn it into the masterpiece that it is. Those singers made choices. I believe that it is the artistic choices of successive singers that fashion traditional songs.

The appalling thing about following famous singers is that it limits choice. The single most important sentence in all traditional music literature (in my view) is one by Albert B Lord in "The Singer of Tales" - "Songbooks spoil the oral character of the tradition only where the singer believes that they represent the way the song must be sung." (That may not be correctly quoted but it's right in essence.) In the same way, where we belive that the famous singer's performs the song the way it should be sung, we limit our choice.

I run Ulstersongs in order to provide choices; in order to allow singers to hear the singers from whom the famous singers learned their traditional songs and in order to make more songs and information available.

I do not think "source" singers necessarily have more authority than later performers: I do think that every singer should have as much power to make their own choices. Choices made in this way lend each singer's performance an authority which no amount of following another person's performance can - no matter how well it's done.

Information about me and a catalogue is available at Ulstersongs

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: Jeri
Date: 05 Aug 00 - 09:41 AM

I'd love to hear more about source singers, and this would be a great place to do it. Unfortunately, no one seems to have the time, energy, inspiration or resources to write articles of the sort found here.

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: GUEST,Sheila
Date: 05 Aug 00 - 09:02 AM

Aren't we all famous, in our way? Kendall, your tape is beautiful! I love the tender "Band Played Waltzing Matilda." You've gained a new fan and that makes you famous, to me. Joe, Aine, Jon, Alice, etc., all others who have EVER helped me with a query. you're ALL famous, in my mind. And I count!

Subject: RE: Famous Mudcatters
From: Naemanson
Date: 05 Aug 00 - 06:41 AM

John and Art have the right of it. Fame is not for folkies. On one hand it may alert people to the form of music the famous person plays but on the other hand (s)he eclipses all the other good performers and leaves them in the dark. People base their expectations on the famous one which leaves them disappointed when they ear those of us who don't "make the grade", so to speak.

I have tried over the last few decades to interest family members in various songs that have captured my interest. I might play a song for them by one of the relative unknown performers WE all know and love. Or I might play Early by Greg Brown, Birches by Bill Morrison, Buffalo Skinners by Spider John Koerner, or something by any of our favorite performers. And these are our "famous" performers.

Invariably the response I get is a critique on how they SOUND. The impression my friends and family give me is that you cannot do good work if you don't have a sweet clear voice and a sweet, slick, production! I can never get them to focus on the song!

What worries me is this attitude of theirs and then their comment that someday I'll be famous! Does this mean I'm too slick to be a folkie? Fortunately I have real friends (?) who assure me I'm not!

Sometimes I am reassured by our famous folks though. I believe that fame, if it is to be used for anything, should be used to do good works. Thus the movie stars who stand up for good causes, fighting world hunger or disease, get my vote and "good guys". Lately I was (very pleasantly) surprised to learn that Gordon Bok, who has played in some very lofty halls and kingly estates, has agreed to perform at one of our local coffeehouses (not mine) for a split of the take at the door! He has a policy, I understand, of supporting local venues. Very nicely done, Mr. Bok. I salute you.